Woo. I've been holding off on making this post until it was all finished but now that it is I feel like sharing my news :badgrin: This post is LONG!

I'm now the proud owner of the following.



Street Torque aggressively ported heads, shaved 0.8mm
Full 2.75" exhaust including new cat
RPW "Stage 1" Cams, valve springs and gears
Street Torque designed twin 65mm T/B inlet manifold
This is on top of my RPW "Race" extractors and Haltech Interceptor ECU, and replaces my slightly less agressively ported and un-decked Street Torque supplied cylinder heads.

When the car arrived at Street Torque Dallas pulled 130kW ATW out of it.

All the mods were bolted on except for the new inlet manifold, and the car ran up 162kW ATW before the factory fuel pressure regulator ran out of oomph.

A new regulator was thrown on to increase rail pressure and the custom manifold with a 65mm standard Magna throttle body on each end of the plenum was bolted in place. Currently, because I'm using a piggy-back which means I need to keep the factory MAF in service induction air flows through a pod near the bumper, through the MAF sensor and into a Y-pipe, one branch of which services each throttle body.

The result of this is, according to Dallas, that low end and midrange torque apparently increased a heap and throttle response is razor sharp. Top end power only climbed to 164.7kW-ish though which indicates the MAF sensor is a bottle neck (duh lol).

We're toying with the idea of letting the right-hand T/B draw through the MAF and have the left T/B bypass it completely which would mean some extensive re-mapping of the fuel curve but is technically possible.. however Dallas has had the car nearly two weeks now and I think he's so fed up with me calling him each day asking "Is it done yet?! Is it?! Is it?!" that he's just going to hand it back and tackle that one another day :bowrofl:

Install wasn't completely without incident.. RPW sent up the wrong type of camshaft the first time around, but Dave managed to make a good save and overnighted some new sticks straight away.. I have some questions about the valve overlap with the new ones, but otherwise they seem to be the goods.

What was interesting though is that the cams don't seem to be as hot as I'd expected them to be.. I don't know the exact specs but I do know they are more mild than Jasons VRX's (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/member.php?u=2473) cams, so once I get the car back I'm seriously considering selling off the RPW cams in favour of some custom Crow grinds so if anyone wants to pick up some cams cheapish, good for 162kW ATW, send me a pm :D

I can probably make more power with these babies going down the MAF bypass route, but that's still to come.

I haven't got the car back yet :cry: Damn freight companies.. but I've asked Dallas to fax me a copy of the dyno sheet which I'll post up as soon as I get it. Major props to Dallas for this one. He rocks.

Woo.

Awesome mate... just awesome.... nice work!! you are going to be one happy chappy... going to be???? looks like you are already...

I guess I need to get my butt into gear and get some stuff done.

nice work :D

Sounds really good! 164 ATW is nothing to be sneezed at! Would love pics/videos/sound!

yeah when u told me in PM i started drooling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

have to say good work u now have one of the most unique magnas around!! and u can throw the cams my way:P

Once I get it back I'll take some pics of the engine bay.. apparently the intake plumbing is pretty spiff.

As for the cams, once I've got a feel for the car I'll decide whether to keep them or not and put up a FS thread.

Dude thats excellent to hear. I too am going to be getting some very similar work done (less cams and twin T/B setup) very soon (ordered and paid for!!!).

I've been thinking about your theory that the MAF sensor is the bottleneck - and I'm not sure I agree. AFAIK - Daves 11sec TT magna is still running the factory airflow sensor, and is only now admitting that he has reached the limit of what the unit can flow - Not to mention there are now 2 (maybe more) Magna's with the Sprintex kit's (putting out up to 250Kw at the engine) which are essentially OEM except for the supercharger assembly, exhaust and (from what I'm led to believe) a little bit of extra piping running from the factory snorkel to behind the lower front bar.

Am I wrong in assuming that if the MAF sensor can deliver air to these applications - it is more than sufficient for a N/A application?? By all means - correct me if I'm wrong someone.

Excellent work!

*waits for the dyno sheets*

By the sounds of it, its a torque beasty.

Am I wrong in assuming that if the MAF sensor can deliver air to these applications - it is more than sufficient for a N/A application?? By all means - correct me if I'm wrong someone. I had the same questions. After all, the Evo uses the same MAF sensor as us.. but the magic ingredient appears to be forced induction. In that application you have some kind of mechanical force drawing air through MAF sensor, and as an extra bonus you have a MAP sensor that can be used to sense load as well.

Either way, I'll plug the laptop in once I get it back and see if the frequency outputted by the MAF peaks before WOT which would be a sure sign. Otherwise I'll just have to experiment and see! :badgrin:

Edit: Dallas still hasn't faxed a dyno sheet :rant:but it's coming..

nice work mate

cant wait to see some vids of this in action !




quesion you dont have to answer, but.......what did all that set you back ?

Either way, I'll plug the laptop in once I get it back and see if the frequency outputted by the MAF peaks before WOT which would be a sure sign. Otherwise I'll just have to experiment and see! :badgrin:

Good stuff!!! let us know what you find about the output of the MAF sensor - I'll be very interested to know. Out of curiosity - do you know if Booya was running thru the MAF sensor with his High compression N/A donk?? and if so - how much was he putting out at that stage?

Good stuff!!! let us know what you find about the output of the MAF sensor - I'll be very interested to know. Out of curiosity - do you know if Booya was running thru the MAF sensor with his High compression N/A donk?? and if so - how much was he putting out at that stage?
I beleive Ben had moved over to the Haltech (complete replacement) ecu by that stage.

I beleive Ben had moved over to the Haltech (complete replacement) ecu by that stage.
True. He had his E6K hooked up using a MAP sensor for mixture control.

great to hear you are happy with the car. Good to see it making some serious power now.

Although on the camshafts - to correct you both sets of cams were only stage 1 units not stage 2 units.

Have been having long conversations with Dallas on the magna engines in general, and at this stage its not so much teh MAF sensor that is your issue but mostly compression (or lack of it) and manifold design still using the stock plenum chamber / runner design.

Additionally expereience has shown that without mroe compression, going to stage 2 camshafts wuodl not be any more beneficial over the stage 1 units you have now with your current mods.

Otherwise enjoy your long driving - I am sure you will be having lots of fun out there on those straight roads.

nice work mate

cant wait to see some vids of this in action !




quesion you dont have to answer, but.......what did all that set you back ?
I don't know yet.. Dallas hasn't sent me an invoice :bowrofl:;)

Lets just say it doesn't come under the heading of bang for buck compared to a turbo car, but it's cheaper than the supercharged option.

Once I get the proper itemized invoice I'll post some parts prices if nothing else.

Although on the camshafts - to correct you both sets of cams were only stage 1 units not stage 2 units.
Ok.. well I ordered 2s through Dallas. I'll have to check with him. :confused:



Have been having long conversations with Dallas on the magna engines in general, and at this stage its not so much teh MAF sensor that is your issue but mostly compression (or lack of it) and manifold design still using the stock plenum chamber / runner design.
I did increase compression.. head shaved and all.. and the intake manifold, while I am using the stock runners, it does have an enlarged plenum.

I beleive the reason for the stage 1 camshafts was we didn't have any stocks of stage 2's they were only some 3.0 ones not 3.5 model camshafts (Ie they wern't the new balanced cam design) and it woudl take too long to get some made hence we sent up the stage 1's. I did discuss this with dallas and it was agreed with the level of mods you were doing, the stage 1's would be more than adequate.

Shaving the heads whilst increasing compression, woudl not increase it enough to get the gains you woudl require. Shaving woudl only take it to around 9.2 : 1 at a guess.

I am talking abotu a compression ratio of at least 10.0 : 1 min.

Either way all that matters is that the car goes well and your happy with it.

I beleive the reason for the stage 1 camshafts was we didn't have any stocks of stage 2's they were only some 3.0 ones not 3.5 model camshafts (Ie they wern't the new balanced cam design) and it woudl take too long to get some made hence we sent up the stage 1's. I did discuss this with dallas and it was agreed with the level of mods you were doing, the stage 1's would be more than adequate. too bad he forgot to tell me lol so now I've shot my mouth off about having 2s when I don't.. how embarassing! :redface: no matter.. just more incentive to go bigger next time.

Edit: ok, so I have no short term memory (i knew this already.. just forgot ;)). Went with stage 1s because of the issues with the 2s.

http://www.wermspowke.net/images/dyno-cams-hq.jpgEdit: got a decent scan done.. still only a fax copy though.



A dyno graph finally.

This is a hand coloured, digital camera photo of a faxed dyno graph so quality is poo! And it's impossible to tell which AFR graph goes with which power curve, but I've coloured the stock curve and the highest power curve, and the final tune AFR line is the one that runs dead flat on about 12.8:1.

Questions and comments welcome.

Edit: Look how flat the power curve is up top! :shock:

That's fnckin mad. I luv it. This'll be a porn site if this keeps up lol

Good stuff dude. Two things I'm interested in:-

1. What did that little lot set you back?
2. What are the options if you don't live in WA and can't be without your car for any time? How much of that stuff could be bought & have fitted by your friendly local mechanic?

1. What did that little lot set you back?
Would you believe I haven't got the final bill yet? lol But it's going to come in around the $5K mark. What's a little disappointing is that for exactly the same money I could have got some hotter cams and be making even more power. That stuff above about the MAF sensor being maxed is probably wrong. Dallas was saying the other day it's more likely he just hit the limit of the cams duration. If the valves were open longer there'd be more power. Oh well, live and learn :cool:

But on the other hand I have the flow characteristics of an excellent engine on my hands now, so for the cost of a new set of cams and some high compression pistons I can squeeze out around the same amount of peak power as VRX-II's blower.


2. What are the options if you don't live in WA and can't be without your car for any time? How much of that stuff could be bought & have fitted by your friendly local mechanic?
I don't live in WA :D All my work was done by Dallas from Street Torque in Alice Springs - the same guy who built Booya's turbo motor. The awesome cylinder heads, twin throttle manifold, cat and exhaust, FPR, and all the hard work came from Street Torque and this sort of combo is available to anyone that wants them to get installed locally. Rather than sound like a commercial, PM me if you want more detail.

This time around the cams, valve springs and gears came from RPW in Perth. Street Torque is an RPW dealer.

so does ithave LSD yet ? :P

zaphod: basically you have to source the parts from rpw and find a workshop that will do all the work for you. otherwise just do it yourself. Thats what ive done apart from the cam timing. Believe rpw sells changeover heads so pretty much any mechanic/yourself could fit all the mods apart from the cam gears as its a little hard to tune them. Then you just have to get a piggyback of some sort and tune it to suit.

cthulhu: From the sounds of it Id probaby say that it is your maf sensor that is limiting your inlet. You have an effective inlet of 130mm with two throttle bodies. theres no way the maf is big enough to flow that much.

I was actually thinking of the possibility of cutting up the maf sensor, keep the small square area in the middle where the car gets its reading from and build up a larger surround. Not sure if that would work.

Nice work with all the mods. Any chance of a quater mile time? Id be expecting a very low 14 sec pass.

']zaphod: basically you have to source the parts from rpw and find a workshop that will do all the work for you. otherwise just do it yourself. Thats what ive done apart from the cam timing. Believe rpw sells changeover heads so pretty much any mechanic/yourself could fit all the mods apart from the cam gears as its a little hard to tune them. Then you just have to get a piggyback of some sort and tune it to suit.
Agreed.. just noting that Street Torque's heads weren't RPW units.



cthulhu: From the sounds of it Id probaby say that it is your maf sensor that is limiting your inlet. You have an effective inlet of 130mm with two throttle bodies. theres no way the maf is big enough to flow that much.
That was the initial thought, yes. It should be easy to measure if it is. Also, I still plan to run one T/B straight to a pod and bypass the MAF for half the inlet air.. it'll mean a fair bit of remapping but should be possible. If it makes more power then I'll know the MAF was a restriction.



I was actually thinking of the possibility of cutting up the maf sensor, keep the small square area in the middle where the car gets its reading from and build up a larger surround. Not sure if that would work.
That's a good idea. There's an article on autospeed (http://www.autospeed.com/) right now where they make up a new MAF sensor body. It was an interesting read and looked pretty easy.



Nice work with all the mods. Any chance of a quater mile time? Id be expecting a very low 14 sec pass.
There's a street meet at Hidden Valley next Friday that I plan to make an appearance at. I don't expect much first time out though as I've never raced before and I'll only have a week to learn how to launch the car ;)

so does ithave LSD yet ? :P
No :cry:

**** yeah.. nice work mate!!!

Waiting on that 1/4 time..

SuFz :rant:

Would you believe I haven't got the final bill yet? lol But it's going to come in around the $5K mark. What's a little disappointing is that for exactly the same money I could have got some hotter cams and be making even more power.

Tell me about it dude. I'm looking at around $5K worth of go fast mods bolted to my car by the end of september - and that's with me doing as much of the fitting as I possibly can, and not even touching the cams or the heads.
:shock: .

And I would have liked to go down the sprintex blower path too - don't know what came over me. Oh well - worst comes to worst I'll be selling my RPW plennum to a greateful AMC member at a bit of a loss, and replacing it with something that sounds like a jet engine. Probably not this year tho :cry: .

i think its good noe that this forum can boast some very quick NA and turbo cars now .... even 6 months ago us NA guys werent really pulling our weight :P

i think its good noe that this forum can boast some very quick NA and turbo cars now .... even 6 months ago us NA guys werent really pulling our weight :P

Yep im now going to do a rebuild of my engine with a few extra mods to see if i can improve on my 171.2kw's at wheels. :D

Yep im now going to do a rebuild of my engine with a few extra mods to see if i can improve on my 171.2kw's at wheels. :D

show off ;)

lol think we'll soon be starting the amc 160kw+ atw club?

Just wondering - has anyone sat down and worked out the dollar per Kw return on say a 160Kw atmo car v. turbo?

Just wondering - has anyone sat down and worked out the dollar per Kw return on say a 160Kw atmo car v. turbo?

No.. and please don't :shifty: lol

I'm sure Bain will do it for us if we ask nicely :bowrofl:

Bang for buck a force induction car has it hands down and always will. But it's nice to be different.. or something.

There's a street meet at Hidden Valley next Friday that I plan to make an appearance at. I don't expect much first time out though as I've never raced before and I'll only have a week to learn how to launch the car ;)

awesome work on the mods mate, sounds very promising!!!

as for the drags, launch a bit harder than you would on the street....hold first for a little longer than usual and hit every gear hard and you'll be sweet. :D

good luck, i look forward to seeing your slip :)

as for spending 5K, fk that IMO :shock:

No.. and please don't :shifty: lol

I'm sure Bain will do it for us if we ask nicely :bowrofl:

Bang for buck a force induction car has it hands down and always will. But it's nice to be different.. or something.
haha ok if I do, I just won't tell you about it. I suspect that it varies with the output you achieve - to get a modest increase, atmo may be cheaper per Kw, and as you go up the scale looking for more power, turbo rapidly becomes cheaper.

Just wondering - has anyone sat down and worked out the dollar per Kw return on say a 160Kw atmo car v. turbo?
I think you could only compare turbo verse NA in high end applications. (230kw's +)

You could wind back a turbo application to get 160kw atw and it will still cost you around 8grand. (single turbo)

Yet at the same time you could wind up the boost and push out 230+kw atw for the same cost.

To reach the same amount of KW's (230kw) in a NA youd be looking at alot more than 8k..

But a NA modded engine sounds so much sweeter than a turbo'd car. (my thoughts)

Any engine bay pics, the dyno pic seems to be broken now also?

Any engine bay pics, the dyno pic seems to be broken now also?
Not yet, the car is still in transit. Should get it back tomorrow and I'll snap some pictures of the twin throttle setup.

Are you sure about the dyno pic? It loaded up just fine for me only moments ago.

Yep im now going to do a rebuild of my engine with a few extra mods to see if i can improve on my 171.2kw's at wheels.



well if ur gonna be replacing part throw them my way :D:D: $$$ ... i mean it lol

Love your work cthulhu.

If you were going to do it again, how would you do it differently?

Any mods you wouldn't bother with or others you'd add?


.

If you were going to do it again, how would you do it differently?

Any mods you wouldn't bother with or others you'd add?
Mostly if I could do it all over again I'd make sure I'd secured some hotter cams than I got. For the amount of money I spent I'm disappointed with the gains simply because I know there was more to be had - likewise some of the mods I did get, like the massively flowed heads and twin throttle setup, aren't being used to their full potential which makes some of their cost essentially dead money.

However! I'm working on a way to rectify that. Right now though I'm just hanging out to get my car back and take it for a spin. :cool: But for one delay after another with freight companies, I'd have had it back the middle of last week. :sook:

so what future mods are you planning on how do plan to rectify the dead money problem and what performance figures are you hoping for with these future mods.

so what future mods are you planning on how do plan to rectify the dead money problem and what performance figures are you hoping for with these future mods.
To start with, I've had an offer to buy my current cams off me so I can put the money into a more aggressive profile. Now that all the head work has been done, and stiffer valve springs are in place, I can swap in just about any cam profile without needing to take the heads off again.

After that, about the only thing left to do is attack the bottom end and install some higher compression pistons.

These two combined should see over 200kW ATW.

The biggest hurdle for me is that Street Torque are 1500km south lol and there's no one here I trust to do the work instead.

Or I could get bored with the whole N/A approach and throw on a blower along with the bigger cams - keep compression where it is or maybe throw on a thicker head gasket - and it'll make just gobs of power!

nooooooooooooo stay ATMO!:rant: :P


an turbo or s/c magna well der that has to be quick .... but an NA v6 pushing 200atws that will turn heads!

nooooooooooooo stay ATMO!:rant: :P


an turbo or s/c magna well der that has to be quick .... but an NA v6 pushing 200atws that will turn heads!
Don't worry.. not really planning forced induction for this car. :) My next car on the other hand.. :think: