Hi all!

Well, you may have heard about these 'electric superchargers' - I made a similar system with other parts other then what has been used to date and what I have come up with is a powerful ducted fan unit. It could be seen as a pathetic mod but I dont have thousands of dollars to spend on a turbo so I thought I'd give it a try! Anywho...I installed this 3" unit just in b4 the air mass sensor and attached the pod filter. When I switched the fan 'On' the engine stalls and cuts out. Why?? First thought is its not providing enough air and choking the engine, but I have tested it and it seems to provide more then without it.

Why would the engine cut out like this? Any ideas or suggestions?

Also, I just installed a pod filter as a cold air intake as well...feels so much more aggressive on launch, but a bit jumpy, especially in 4th backing off. Will the computer adapt to the change?

Thanks a million guys!!
- Daniel

Two things. Firstly I think the mod you are doing isn't really going to do you any good at all.

Now, how far away did you place the fan from the MAF sensor? Secondly, what POD filter are you using? Round POD filters seem to create problems with the MAF sensor. Maybe you need to work out whether its stalling due to your mod, or the filter. Try putting the panel filter back on and see what happens.

The fan might be too close to the MAF sensor and causing the sensor to pick up strange readings causing the engine to stall.

i think the reason round pods confuse the MAF is because they create a swirling motion in the air, a fan is just gunna do this 100fold,

Yep i can definately confirm that teh round adaptors confuse the ecu as a friend of mine put a round adaptor onto the MAF and the engine was about to stall and the ecu started to put more petrol into the combustion chamber casueing black smoke to come out of exhaust.

But i have looked in autobarn and they now definately do stock and proper adaptor for the magna MAF where a 5" round pod goes over a oval MAF adaptor.

Not too sure about your electric supercharger though.

Tom

Is the fan facing the right way? Sucking air out instead of forcing it in :doubt:

Hi all!

Well, you may have heard about these 'electric superchargers' - I made a similar system with other parts other then what has been used to date and what I have come up with is a powerful ducted fan unit. It could be seen as a pathetic mod but I dont have thousands of dollars to spend on a turbo so I thought I'd give it a try! Anywho...I installed this 3" unit just in b4 the air mass sensor and attached the pod filter. When I switched the fan 'On' the engine stalls and cuts out. Why?? First thought is its not providing enough air and choking the engine, but I have tested it and it seems to provide more then without it.

Why would the engine cut out like this? Any ideas or suggestions?

Also, I just installed a pod filter as a cold air intake as well...feels so much more aggressive on launch, but a bit jumpy, especially in 4th backing off. Will the computer adapt to the change?

Thanks a million guys!!
- Daniel






i use e-ram and i dont hav any issues at all. oh and i do use k&n panel. are u sure wen ur e's/c is switched on u hav wide open throttle (wot) cos if u dont that might be ur problem.
see my set up: now the e-ram is attached at bottom end of the hose

oh btw ur e' s/c needs to be at least 6" away from the maf sensor as well :doubt:

Well what you have done is OK, however the fan is only suppose to come ON when the engine is at full throtle. If you turn the fan on while the throtle is closed it will not work, the mass sensor will think that their is air going into the car but the fuel will not be set and the car will stall. YOU shuld install a switch that turns the fan on at only open throttle position, a microswitch with a bracket will work fine.

As to whether this mod works or not is another story. A 3.5 l engine at 6000 rpm will need 350l/s of air flow, and that is only at atmospheric pressure, if you want to create boost you will need to increase the pressure of the fan to a minimum of 400 PA, that is about .5psi of boost. There are not many fans that will do this, i work as a mechanical engineer and deal with fans all the time, that's my job. I have looked into this and you will see an increasy in power, as most engines are ony 80% efficient at the best of time, this mod will just make the motor more efficient. It has been shown that this mod can give up to 35Hp increase, however the fan to do that will draw as much current as that to power it, so in the end you level out almost eaven.

Anyway good luck with it, and i belive if you install a micro switch to turn the fan on at FOT then you should have not problems.

Well what you have done is OK, however the fan is only suppose to come ON when the engine is at full throtle. If you turn the fan on while the throtle is closed it will not work, the mass sensor will think that their is air going into the car but the fuel will not be set and the car will stall. YOU shuld install a switch that turns the fan on at only open throttle position, a microswitch with a bracket will work fine.

As to whether this mod works or not is another story. A 3.5 l engine at 6000 rpm will need 350l/s of air flow, and that is only at atmospheric pressure, if you want to create boost you will need to increase the pressure of the fan to a minimum of 400 PA, that is about .5psi of boost. There are not many fans that will do this, i work as a mechanical engineer and deal with fans all the time, that's my job. I have looked into this and you will see an increasy in power, as most engines are ony 80% efficient at the best of time, this mod will just make the motor more efficient. It has been shown that this mod can give up to 35Hp increase, however the fan to do that will draw as much current as that to power it, so in the end you level out almost eaven.

Anyway good luck with it, and i belive if you install a micro switch to turn the fan on at FOT then you should have not problems.



so wat happens if it only gives 1psi of boost

when you do get it running take some footage of it on the dyno so when can see what improvements it makes. Hope the fan spins fast enough and can pump enough air.

The elctric fan idea has been around for ages. I'm sorry to say that it won't work. You will need the fan to be spinning at several thousand rpm to provide the increase in airflow. A turbo can run up to 100,000 rpm at full throttle. A supercharger is normally large enough that it can provide the air charge needed.

The elctric fan idea has been around for ages. I'm sorry to say that it won't work. You will need the fan to be spinning at several thousand rpm to provide the increase in airflow. A turbo can run up to 100,000 rpm at full throttle. A supercharger is normally large enough that it can provide the air charge needed.




well iguess mine is 1/4 of the turbo coz it spin 25,000 rpm.....and beside the topic was how to fix the problem. and it wont really hurt if u try out of curiosity providing u use the right unit :cool:

so wat happens if it only gives 1psi of boost


I think form memoy that 1 psi boost wil produce 11.3 Hp, i have done the calcs but can't remember will get back to you on that. (this is for a magna only, varies with each car, rpm, compression and size of engine relation)

well iguess mine is 1/4 of the turbo coz it spin 25,000 rpm.....and beside the topic was how to fix the problem. and it wont really hurt if u try out of curiosity providing u use the right unit :cool:

HAHAHA. No. Your unit isnt a turbo. Its just a fan stuck in the way of airflow. I cant believe you'd install such a stupid unit in a ralliart. My guess is its doing more harm then good.

Dont try and tell me you notice a difference either, got placebo effect?

HAHAHA. No. Your unit isnt a turbo. Its just a fan stuck in the way of airflow. I cant believe you'd install such a stupid unit in a ralliart. My guess is its doing more harm then good.

Dont try and tell me you notice a difference either, got placebo effect?




well bud my car, my decision. and im no stupid that a fan is a turbo all i said that the unit is a 1/4 strenght of the turbo.and i dont believe i was preaching for everyone to use it. and im not goin to tell u wether there is a gain to it coz i think its for me to know and for u to find out. i know as well that this method is outcasted here so wat iwas doin is to try helping sum1 to solve their problem.by using this unit :doubt:

HAHAHA. No. Your unit isnt a turbo. Its just a fan stuck in the way of airflow. I cant believe you'd install such a stupid unit in a ralliart. My guess is its doing more harm then good.

Dont try and tell me you notice a difference either, got placebo effect?

I dont know man this thing might be good. You should check out some of the video's on the e ram web site.

They turn this fan on with the pod attached and it flies away lol. They also hook it up to a large garbage bag and it pops it in around 4 seconds.

HAHAHA. No. Your unit isnt a turbo. Its just a fan stuck in the way of airflow. I cant believe you'd install such a stupid unit in a ralliart. My guess is its doing more harm then good.

Dont try and tell me you notice a difference either, got placebo effect?


If nothing else atleast its a lesson learnt, and after hearing the car on the weekend with the e-ram on it sounds tuff. Good work dark-magician

well bud my car, my decision. and im no stupid that a fan is a turbo all i said that the unit is a 1/4 strenght of the turbo.and i dont believe i was preaching for everyone to use it. and im not goin to tell u wether there is a gain to it coz i think its for me to know and for u to find out. i know as well that this method is outcasted here so wat iwas doin is to try helping sum1 to solve their problem.by using this unit :doubt:


Yeah, it always surprises me how easily people arc up when this subject is raised.

Theoretically, if a unit like the E-Ram provides positive pressure at full throttle then it has to have a benefit. What I'm not sure about is the ability of the cars management system to make use of the added flow. Also I'm not sure if the power required to generate the needed current is the same or greater than the power it provides ie no net gain. I guess a supercharger and turbo are subject to the same laws of physics though.

As for your car te_trouble, I think you need to only have the fan operate at full open throttle and it needs to be well away from the MAF sensor or alternately on the downwind side of it ie it's sucking through the MAF sensor not blowing into it.


.

only problem with putting it after the maf is the ecu wont supply anywhere near enough fuel to the engine, thus leaning it out, the maf will need to sense the amount of air for it to supply more fuel. this could be counteracted by using an extra injector hooked up through a switch that comes on at full throttle

the maf will need to sense the amount of air for it to supply more fuel.

weither the air is pushed or pulled through the MAF shouldnt make any difference to the MAFs readings. Whatever amount of air that is being feed into the engine is still passing through the MAF therefore the readings the MAF sends to the ecu shouldnt be any different if the fan is placed before or after the MAF.. correct?

In saying all that, i wouldnt bother trying this mod.. But thats just my opinion...

and im no stupid that a fan is a turbo all i said that the unit is a 1/4 strenght of the turbo.

Its not a 1/4 strength of a turbo. A turbo looks completly different, yours is just a fan.

This is what a turbo looks like (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger) please tell me if yours looks like this.

With the money you spent on this and to get it installed, youd could have almost had header, or you would have been halfway to a set of new cams.

Also do you think its a good thing or a bad thing to have something in the way of airflow when your not WOT?

Its not a 1/4 strength of a turbo. A turbo looks completly different, yours is just a fan.

This is what a turbo looks like (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger) please tell me if yours looks like this.

With the money you spent on this and to get it installed, youd could have almost had header, or you would have been halfway to a set of new cams.

Also do you think its a good thing or a bad thing to have something in the way of airflow when your not WOT?



mate i know mine is a fan i dont know if u do understand that i never mention anything about shape i believe there is a difference between shape and strenght.and if anything bout its gettin in the way of air flow well i guess its no diff from havin a snorkel.but my petrol consumption tells it all n e way. and with gettin installed cost me 0$ its a diy. maybe u should read the early post abbo said that a turbo does 100,000 rpm while mine does 25,000rpm so do ur math :badgrin:

those e-ram's arent the standard crappy pump sorta thing, the motors are pretty powerful. from memory they can produce up to 2PSI @ 12amp and adequate quantity of air for most engines < v8. Thier claims dont seem that outrageous. Having said that, there are some electric superchargers out there that are complete **** and will only restrict airflow.

Bondy, id check out the specs of the e-ram from thier site before condeming ppl for using them.

bout damn time someone made one of these work.

too bad it only comes on at full throttle. if only you could link it into your throttle position sensor and somehow figure out the equation to link fan speed and throttle position.

1. You dont need the fan at less than WOT. Simply open the throttle a bit more if you want more power. You want the extra power supplied by the fan only at WOT.
2. The fan is pulling its power from the battery and for only 5 to 30 secs during acceleration. It should not detract from the extra power being produced by the engine as it is not mechanically coupled. Yes there will be a slight extra load as the alternator attempts to re-charge the battery.
Of course if you are trying to run up to max speed then the fan will need to run longer and drain the battery further. What the limmit is I dont know, I haven't even read the article on it, but at least lets get the engine theory correct. Whether the fan actualy works I dont Know. That can only be determined by trying it.
Best of luck.

Dark Magician, id check out the specs of the e-ram from thier site before condeming ppl for using them.
WTF!!!! Did you read his posts?

mate i know mine is a fan i dont know if u do understand that i never mention anything about shape i believe there is a difference between shape and strenght.and if anything bout its gettin in the way of air flow well i guess its no diff from havin a snorkel.but my petrol consumption tells it all n e way. and with gettin installed cost me 0$ its a diy. maybe u should read the early post abbo said that a turbo does 100,000 rpm while mine does 25,000rpm so do ur math :badgrin:


I can only sort of understand what you are trying to say.

You are saying that your fan is one 1/4 the strength of a turbo?

While 25,000rpm might be 1/4 of the 100,000rpm of an average turbo, it doesnt mean it will be 1/4 as powerful as a turbo.

Heres the thing, on average a turbo spins at 100,000rpm and produces and average boost of 80kPa, which is around 11-12psi.

So your saying yours, which is '1/4 as powerful' should therefore produce 3-4psi, but wait it only produces 1psi.

Are you starting to see just how inefficient using a fan as forced induction is?

Seriously stop saying its 1/4 as powerful as a turbo just because it spins 1/4 the speed of one.

Also my maths is fine, im an engineering student, it has to be good.

Also my maths is fine, im an engineering student, it has to be good.
Not your maths, just your calculator :P
Don't make me seperate you two. :cool: DM fitted it to his car coz he wanted to. You have chosen not to fit it to your car coz you don't want to. Can we please agree to disagree here!

Not your maths, just your calculator :P
Can we please agree to disagree here!

No calculator allowed on the exam :P


Ok we will agree to disagree. I just had a problem with him comparing it to 1/4 strength of a turbo, just because it span at 1/4 the speed.

woops wrong person :nuts:
i was responding to bondy, not dark magician.
*edit*

regardless of how fast it spins its on how much air it can pump- a/r ratio.

The cfm rating is more of what u need to look at not how fast it spins. And obviously its ability to produce pressure at the same time.

Turbo's compress air the Eram is more of a pump not a compressor.

Look... All you need is a good CAI... Like this :rofleek: