ok..so i just put my new manifold on and also some of the rpw thermoblock gaskets.
very happy with the manifold..not so sure about the gaskets but :confused:
arnt you sopposted to be able to touch the plenum after youve put them on?
i went for a 10min drive ,popped the hood and felt how much ' cooler ' it was...ony to discover i cant feel any difference! still scorching hot!
any ideas anyone?is this normal?
seems like a bit of awaste of $$$...lucky i got em for cheap! lol

interesting - I'm sure someone on here tested theirs out with a temp sensor while out at a track day somewhere. From memory they recorded temperature on the surface of the plennum / runners about 100deg cooler than than the lower manifold.

Bit of a worry - but hey, at least your fit!! mine didn't - still waiting on replacement

lol funny you should say that..i had to modify it a little before all the holes lined up!

lol funny you should say that..i had to modify it a little before all the holes lined up!

That could be why it's ineffective. I send Dave pics of my thermo gasket against the plennum I brought off him - couple of days later he confirmed his whole delivery off them was cut wrong. You probably got one of those. Hit him up for a replacement if you're willing to wait for it :doubt: ...... but I would if I was you either way, cause if the holes didn't line up then it's a faulty unit.

i noticed a little bit but nothing too much, but it was a mod so i did it anyway :cool:

i suggest u dont stop running coolant through your TB either to try and cool it down

i noticed a little bit but nothing too much, but it was a mod so i did it anyway :cool:

i suggest u dont stop running coolant through your TB either to try and cool it down

Why do you say that??? did you try it and have a bad experience - if so pls elaborate. Or is it just something you don't like the sound of because it sounds a little too 'suss'??

Personally it's something that is in the back of my mind - but I can't get past the fact that...... well they must have designed it like that for a reason. - So I for one would be very interested to hear if you've tried it and didn't like the results. Not to mention the fact that you'd literally be flowing litres of air thru there a second - the amount of heat that is going to be transferred into the air as it flows thru the 50mm wide t/b surely makes no difference whatsoever.

Thats my theory anyway...... infact the more I think about it - the more I think that the thermo spacer between the manifold and the plennum is going to do little to nothing to the eventual temperatur of the air entering the cylinders. Sure it's a larger surface area - but if it heats the air up that much - then surely we woudn't see any gains at all when we install CAI systems, and I for one certainly believe I did see a difference going from stock intake --> K&N POD mounted in the engine bay --> K&N POD at end of CAI piping to the front bumper.

But like you have both said...... they're cheap, and they're a mod - so why not!!! lol

The coolant thru the TB helps the car warm up to temperature. Once it gets hot enough it melts a substance inside the TB and lets the car drop in Revs because it is warmed up. Sometimes when you do the mod your car will stay at high idle longer. You can also pull that whole assembely off the TB and block it off. You'll want to keep the ISC but the other side is the FIAV. Which the coolant flows through can be discarded and blocked off. Then just loop the coolant lines.

I am glad you posted the issues about the thermo gaskets because I am in the US and was about to order some. I'll pass if it still gets hot. I highly doubt a small misalignment will cause it to not be effective in keeping the manifold cooler. Thanks. :D

I have the thermo gaskets and I noticed the difference.

The intake plenum is just a little bit warm...not hot hot like it used to be. You could rest you hand on it for hours (who would do that though???) and not have a problem.

So yeah, massive difference for me...I'll vouch for their effectiveness

You will always get heat soak regardless of the blocks (still using metal bolts).At lower speeds and idle the manifold will warm up and be hot but never as hot as before.This changes when you start moving and more air passes thru the manifold etc.,

Has anyone had any problems with the plenum expanding/extracting at different rates to the lower half of the intake manifold, perhaps applying strain to the bolts that connect the two?

I tested their effectiveness with a non-contact, electronic thermometer last time I went to a track day. After 5 laps of "spirited" driving I popped the hood and took some readings. The plenum was around 50 degrees cooler than the intake manifold that it's attached to. I took the readings just either side of the gasket to get a good idea how well it works.

The rule of thumb is that for every 2.7 degrees Celsius hotter the air is, you will lose 1% of your power. So it's beneficial to try to keep intake air cool. Between sessions at the track I just pop the hood to let the heat escape.

The throttle body gasket prevents heat soak from the throttle body to the plenum because, as rightly pointed out, coolant flows through the throttle body. With both the gaskets fitted, you will have a cooler plenum and therefore denser air feeding into the engine.

One thing worth noting however is that if you stop the car and leave the bonnet down, the plenum will heat up after a while because of the high ambient temperature under the hood. If you keep driving the airflow prevents this from happening.

These gaskets don't give you more power, but they very effectively prevent the power you have from diminishing as your engine heats up. This was very noticable at the track day as the engine didn't "fatigue" no matter how many laps I did.


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This is very interesting...

RPW is probably not to be trusted.

We shipped 6 of our Outlaw Engineering (http://www.outlawengineering.com) Thermoblok (yes, "ThermoBlok" is our trademark) kits to RPW back in November. RPW promptly repackaged them to remove links to Outlaw Engineering and then placed our own copyrighted information and graphics from our website onto his own. All without our permission. He even removed the outlaw engineering logos from the pictures. He also raised the price significantly at the time.

Only after repeated requests did he remove our information...only to replace it with plagerized information and pictures from an article that AutoSpeed did about our product a few years back. All of the graphics on his website belong to Outlaw Engineering. We believe he now makes them on his own using our kit as a benchmark. But we strongly question his his quality since it appears some have exact fitment problems. We are not sure what insulating material he now uses, but we are fairly certain it is not the same as our insulating material.

Take a look at our Mitsu 6G72 product pics (http://www.outlawengineering.com/mitsu6g72frame.html) to compare the kits you received from RPW.

Based upon his business dealings with us thus far, I would not trust the quality of his own kits. I just hope that Outlaw Engineering does not gain a poor reputation due to RPW's apparent lack of integrity.

Sean Morgan
Outlaw Engineering (http://www.outlawengineering.com)

This is very interesting...

RPW is probably not to be trusted.

We shipped 6 of our Outlaw Engineering (http://www.outlawengineering.com) Thermoblok (yes, "ThermoBlok" is our trademark) kits to RPW back in November. RPW promptly repackaged them to remove links to Outlaw Engineering and then placed our own copyrighted information and graphics from our website onto his own. All without our permission. He even removed the outlaw engineering logos from the pictures. He also raised the price significantly at the time.

Only after repeated requests did he remove our information...only to replace it with plagerized information and pictures from an article that AutoSpeed did about our product a few years back. All of the graphics on his website belong to Outlaw Engineering. We believe he now makes them on his own using our kit as a benchmark. But we strongly question his his quality since it appears some have exact fitment problems. We are not sure what insulating material he now uses, but we are fairly certain it is not the same as our insulating material.

Take a look at our Mitsu 6G72 product pics (http://www.outlawengineering.com/mitsu6g72frame.html) to compare the kits you received from RPW.

Based upon his business dealings with us thus far, I would not trust the quality of his own kits. I just hope that Outlaw Engineering does not gain a poor reputation due to RPW's apparent lack of integrity.

Sean Morgan
Outlaw Engineering (http://www.outlawengineering.com)

Sean,

That is extremely interesting. Particularly since I recently received a plennum chamber spacer from RPW which didn't fit. The item supplied looked nothing like those pictured on your website.

The RPW item only includes a single 'gasket' where yours seems to be a 2 piece kit (ie: 2 plennum gaskets and 2 t/b gaskets). Also - judging from the picture, it looks like you supply replacement bolts also - is this correct?

You've definetly got my attention - does that $99 (US) include both plennum/intake manifold and plennum/throttle body spacers + bolts??

As far as RPW giving outlaw engineering a bad rep - I wouldn't worry too much about it...... I for one didn't realise your company was producing a similar product til I read your post above.

Yes, $99US gets everything shown in the picture. We include gaskets since the spacer is hard and does not act as its own gasket. We include lengthened bolts to prevent having you guys strip the threads in your manifolds. We also include a coolant bypass fitting and most importantly Outlaw Engineering decals.

Outlaw Engineering was the originator of the intake manifold insulators for import engines back in 1999. Yes, even before Hondata. Several articles have been published specifically on Outlaw Engineering ThermoBlok spacer kits including one in your very own AutoSpeed magazine.

Hrmmm, interesting. Just as I was re-building a little bit of trust in RPW :confused:

So how much would one be looking at in AUD $$ to get a thermoblok kit shipped to their door? :P

The total shipped to Australia is $115US which works out to $149AUS.

Hope you were prepared to be bombarded with questions Sean lol .

I just thought of another one....... are you aware of any issues with fitment of these items to our 6g74 motors??

By all accounts they share identical t/b, plennum and lower intake manifold - but I dare say the majority of members here with V6's will have the 3.5L variant, so the question was bound to come up :D !

The plenum insulator I installed last year and the throttle body insulator I installed a few weeks ago are made of very different material to each other even though they are both from RPW. The plenum insulator is a black, very hard type of plastic whereas the throttle body one looks like its made out of the same material as circuit boards (fibreglass) only much thicker.

On the tests I did, the plenum insulator seemed to be more effective than the throttle body one.

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The plenum insulator I installed last year and the throttle body insulator I installed a few weeks ago are made of very different material to each other even though they are both from RPW. The plenum insulator is a black, very hard type of plastic whereas the throttle body one looks like its made out of the same material as circuit boards (fibreglass) only much thicker.

On the tests I did, the plenum insulator seemed to be more effective than the throttle body one.

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The T/B insulator you describe sounds like the same material as the ill-fitting plennum gasket I received from RPW recently. The Plennum insulator you describe sounds like the one pictured on the outlaw engineering website, and the timing is about right for you to have received one of the six scmorgan claims he sold to RPW last year.

disapointing to say the least :doubt:

The T/B insulator you describe sounds like the same material as the ill-fitting plennum gasket I received from RPW recently. The Plennum insulator you describe sounds like the one pictured on the outlaw engineering website, and the timing is about right for you to have received one of the six scmorgan claims he sold to RPW last year.

disapointing to say the least :doubt:

Yeah, I just had a look at the Outlaw site and that's definately the insulator I have on the plenum. I remember at the time, RPW were upfront about the fact that they didn't manufacture them so I just assumed they were selling them under license or something. It also might explain the different results people are getting in regard to their cooling effectiveness.

The Outlaw insulators are really effective. I'll do some more tests in the next few days to see if the new ones from RPW work as well as Outlaws.


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Yes, $99US gets everything shown in the picture. We include gaskets since the spacer is hard and does not act as its own gasket. We include lengthened bolts to prevent having you guys strip the threads in your manifolds. We also include a coolant bypass fitting and most importantly Outlaw Engineering decals.

Outlaw Engineering was the originator of the intake manifold insulators for import engines back in 1999. Yes, even before Hondata. Several articles have been published specifically on Outlaw Engineering ThermoBlok spacer kits including one in your very own AutoSpeed magazine.

Trust, its an interesting thing. I wonder if mitsiman will voice his side. Anyway good to have you here Sean, hope to see more products if they can be adapted for magna/diamantes.

Oh DAVE!! You better come explain yourself Mr RPW!!

This wouldn't be the first item I have watched you remove the manufacturer's sticker and put yours in it's place!!!!

I have seen him do the same thing with the Whiteline Strut Tower bars - remove the Whiteline sticker and put a RPW sticker in its place.

Not legit dude!!

This is very interesting...

RPW is probably not to be trusted.

We shipped 6 of our Outlaw Engineering (http://www.outlawengineering.com) Thermoblok (yes, "ThermoBlok" is our trademark) kits to RPW back in November. RPW promptly repackaged them to remove links to Outlaw Engineering and then placed our own copyrighted information and graphics from our website onto his own. All without our permission. He even removed the outlaw engineering logos from the pictures. He also raised the price significantly at the time.

Only after repeated requests did he remove our information...only to replace it with plagerized information and pictures from an article that AutoSpeed did about our product a few years back. All of the graphics on his website belong to Outlaw Engineering. We believe he now makes them on his own using our kit as a benchmark. But we strongly question his his quality since it appears some have exact fitment problems. We are not sure what insulating material he now uses, but we are fairly certain it is not the same as our insulating material.

Take a look at our Mitsu 6G72 product pics (http://www.outlawengineering.com/mitsu6g72frame.html) to compare the kits you received from RPW.

Based upon his business dealings with us thus far, I would not trust the quality of his own kits. I just hope that Outlaw Engineering does not gain a poor reputation due to RPW's apparent lack of integrity.

Sean Morgan
Outlaw Engineering (http://www.outlawengineering.com)


RPW = :disgusted :rocket: :gtfoslap: :owned: .........again!!

Something about Leopards and spots comes to mind. :bowrofl:

I would agree that it is likely that ReallyArt has one of our intake spacers.

We now have a kit that is specifically for the 3.5L 6G74 using information gained while working with AussieMagna. It appears that the Australian 3.0L 6G72 & 3.5L 6G74 will use the same intake and throttle body spacers. This intake is the same as U.S. 3.0L 6G72's, but your Aussie throttle body is much larger than here in the states. This is probably why RPW supplied you with a "home-made" throttle body spacer.

Does anyone have any conflicting information?

I would agree that it is likely that ReallyArt has one of our intake spacers.

We now have a kit that is specifically for the 3.5L 6G74 using information gained while working with AussieMagna. It appears that the Australian 3.0L 6G72 & 3.5L 6G74 will use the same intake and throttle body spacers. This intake is the same as U.S. 3.0L 6G72's, but your Aussie throttle body is much larger than here in the states. This is probably why RPW supplied you with a "home-made" throttle body spacer.

Does anyone have any conflicting information?



So your telling me, i can get a new TB from aussie magnas... and it will be bigger then i have in my diamante? i.e it will flow better?

I don't think so. I believe he is talking about the 3.0 6G72. We have the 3.5 6G74.

blackD - our 3.5L's have a 65mm T/B standard. If yours is smaller than that - it might be worth looking at upgrading.

Thats what we have as well.

blackD - our 3.5L's have a 65mm T/B standard. If yours is smaller than that - it might be worth looking at upgrading.


didnt think there was a driffence between ours and theres... the 1st gen (us) and the 2nd gen (aussie) have differnt size TB's then? is that your trying to say?

Now I get to have my say :D

YEs we did use origonally the units from the USA and marketed them as our own product. Nothing illegal about that as since we are importing them into australia, we take on the warranty, legalities, GST etc. I tried to set up a deal with outlaw to further expand the range into australia and manafacture them for more model vehicles, but they turned out to be very unfriendly to deal with.

THe USA units did not fit up correclty - the throttle body gasket was not correct and the length of the manifold bolts etc were too long and other minor issues. THe product was good but issues arose between themselves and ourselves so we decided to go elsewhere on the product.

I have a new company that is making them for me now - we sent sample gaskets of around 6 mitsubishi model vehicles to them, and they are making them for me now. We use a different material to the USA brands which is a much thicker plastic type product where ours are a thinner, fiberglass / layered resin product.

Ours do not require longer bolts due to the thicknesses being much thinner and nor does it require gaskets, although you can reuse the stock gaskets.

THe last batch of units made for the V6 did have the manifold gaskets made incorrectly - we have the replacement units in stock now. For the gentleman waiting on them, we are coating his headers which he also ordered and they will be available sometime end of this week / early next week for delivery.

All material on our website has been sourced elsewhere on this product.

Simple as that - I was wondering when Mr Outlaw woudl find a post on this and jump on. There product was great I had no problems with that but I had problems with them. When I went looking to make these I had no less than 5 suppliers all trying to get my business, to make these for me. I chose a company that can make them in small batches for me within 1 week of ordering. Considering how many they have made for me now and how well they work, I can't fault them.

Some people will buy them from RPW and our outlets, others will go to the USA. Its a free market and we don't force anyone to buy from us. THe end result between the two products is the same and our pricing including GST is only marginally dearer than what the USA brand is remembering that we are paying import taxes etc in our cost prices as we are legitimatly importing the product into australia.

I think other than this further slandering , which I have not attempted to do as people can see, is not necessary or beneficial to anyone.

There are two great products on the market at the end of the day choose who you want to buy from and talk about the merits of the products, not the politics behind it.

David,

No slander, just the truth.

We are curious how we were unfriendly to you? We only became unfriendly when you placed our own copyrighted material on your website without our permission and then refused to remove it following repeated courteous requests. We backed away from a business relationship with RPW following this incident due to our concerns over your unethical business practices.

You still have Outlaw Engineering verbiage and graphics on your website including those plagiarized from our article in AutoSpeed. When will you remove these?

The kits we sent to you fit U.S. models perfectly and the only issues were the differences with Australian models. You did not mention that you had difficulties or we would have resolved them immediately as we subsequently did with AussieMagna's assistance.

The greater thickness of our spacers allows superior insulation. It would be much simpler for us to find an easily machined plastic or fiberglass material in a thickness that would not require new fasteners. This, however, would not be the best product that we can supply to our customers. Therefore we choose to go with a more completely engineered kit offered at a competitive price.

We have seen other types of spacers that are soft enough to act as their own gaskets. We have also seen these when they are removed from engines due to leakage. These materials absorb gasoline and oil, continue to compress over time leading to loose fasteners, and ultimately crack. Outlaw engineering spacers have been examined after 3+ years of continuous use and are in excellent, reusable condition.

Outlaw Engineering has the in-house programming and machining capabilities to produce our own parts, including rapid prototyping and custom one-off pieces for competition engines. We take responsibility for our own quality and do not outsource it to others.

IF you wish to discuss this I am happy to but not on a public forum. Feel free to PM or email me.

As I have said - your product was fine no problems there.

I am at this time using an alternative brand - which has proven to work very well, and appears to be of an equal to the Outlaw brand product to date.

I don't think any more need be said of the outlaw and RPW products at this time - it is at this stage quite simply, there are two brands, customers can choose whichever one they want to use.

I don't have any personal issues at this time with outlaw, it was just something that did not work out as simple as that.

For the gentleman waiting on them, we are coating his headers which he also ordered and they will be available sometime end of this week / early next week for delivery.

That is the best thing I have heard this month!!!!

And as far as discussions between RPW and Outlaw - I agree that this isn't the place for it.

I thank Sean from taking time to come here and advise fellow members of AMC that there is an alternative to the locally made product, and I thank Dave for sharing his side of the story.

This is not the place for it.

Keep it off the forum and resolve it.