Just a few questions about Capacitors.

1. What are they there for? i saw something on google

A device that stores electrical charges and can be used to maintain voltage levels in power lines and improve electrical-system efficiency.

Now a mate of mine is selling one and he asked me if i wanted it.

And all i really need to know is will it be any advantage to my system or will it be a disadvantage. If its an advantage then ill take it off him but if it isnt then i wont.
Also if its not really gonna do nething i still might take it just to add a bit of wank factor to my boot.

Thanks in advance.

Kthnx Kyle.

They are like a small battery with instant power as u mount them inchs away from ur amp.. :D

they act as a voltage and amperage regulator, the voltage coming from your car battery often spikes and dims which produces unexpected sounds from your speakers connected to your amp, the capacator gets charged from the battery and then powers your amp with a constant linear flow of electricity.

So would it be a good idea to get it??

So would it be a good idea to get it??
And maybe a little fire extinguisher to go with it lol

:stoopid:


they like to :flame:

So would it be a good idea to get it??

basically lots of power is needed for a big 'doof' and if one big doof is followed by another big doof, the power supply cant provide as much power to the 2nd one, cause the first one sucked it all up lol . therefore the capcitator stores extra juice for when its needed (the language of dee is so simple).

therfore if you find your amp struggling to continually keep feeding big doofs, it might help. although they're not cheap. i think 70$ will buy you a very low grade one, while 100$ should get you a decent one (different ones hold more/less ability to store power reserve).

basically lots of power is needed for a big 'doof' and if one big doof is followed by another big doof, the power supply cant provide as much power to the 2nd one, cause the first one sucked it all up lol . therefore the capcitator stores extra juice for when its needed (the language of dee is so simple).

therfore if you find your amp struggling to continually keep feeding big doofs, it might help. although they're not cheap. i think 70$ will buy you a very low grade one, while 100$ should get you a decent one (different ones hold more/less ability to store power reserve).

Thanks dee.

Not exactly sure on all the specs of the one this guy is selling but he said hed sell it to me for $50.

$50 , ill buy it if you dont lol

i just brought some new shiznit, i might as well do it properly.

$50 aint to bad, only if it has voltage readout. And looks bling. Otherwise dont bother

A cap is a waste of money and will give you no benefit apart from stopping dimming headlights.
Decent caps cost over $300. Anything less I wouldnt bother putting in unless it looks good.

Peace

Tim

$50 aint to bad, only if it has voltage readout. And looks bling. Otherwise dont bother

A cap is a waste of money and will give you no benefit apart from stopping dimming headlights.
Decent caps cost over $300. Anything less I wouldnt bother putting in unless it looks good.

Peace

Tim

Well that was really the only reason i was lookin at buying it, if it was bling and just to up the wank factor in the boot. :D

As long as you know...

If you get it i would also be aware that it is like a live battery in ur boot, make sure the terminals are covered, and follow the instructions to charge it to avoid big sparks flying everywhere when u wire it up.

And yerr. look into that fire extinguisher too.

As long as you know...

If you get it i would also be aware that it is like a live battery in ur boot, make sure the terminals are covered, and follow the instructions to charge it to avoid big sparks flying everywhere when u wire it up.

And yerr. look into that fire extinguisher too.


Yeah they are not to bad..they make a differance, i had one.. :D

Dont worry abd extinguisher just carry a bucket of water in the car with you... :D

before a cap, I'd look at,
Upgrade wiring. 4 gauge or larger
Shorten amp grounds
new battery
Upgrade engine grounds
dual battery

in that order...

A Capacitor does make a big difference, but it has to be a quality one. Do not get sucked into buying Audiobahn 1 Farad capacitors, they're known to be of poor design. I got my capacitor for $350, works wonders and looks great - guys have orgasm's over it...ill find a pic for you

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12333

Good rule of thumb is that if u have a system that's over say... 500wrms, it would be an advantage to get a "stiffening capacitor" to help with short term trans. response... I could say more but I'd just be bull sh#%%ing cause that's all I know... :redface:

my system has a total of about 1300WRMS, so i'm using 2xFusion 1.5 Farad caps... before i was only running a single 6GA cable to the battery (dry cell 800CCA) and the headlight dimming without the caps was stupid! have since upgraded to 2x4GA cables to the battery but havent put the subs back in yet so dont know how it will go this time. but yes capacitor definately did make a difference to headlight dimming and they do look cool :D

i haven't personally known anyone who has had one blow up, combust, explode or whatever they are known for... how would this happen? wouldn't it basically have to have the +ive and -ive held together for a while?

They only need to be shorted for an instant to get ugly, if they're charged up.

A common high school style prank is mucking with (smaller) caps.. charge them up and throw them at people. They make noises and cause pain on impact :D

Did u notice any quality difference (ie: chest snapping bass compared to bum rumbles?) I was told that it helps keep things cool due to keeping the transient voltage at peak levels and thus keeping the amps lower... Is this true ya reckon?

They only need to be shorted for an instant to get ugly, if they're charged up.

A common high school style prank is mucking with (smaller) caps.. charge them up and throw them at people. They make noises and cause pain on impact :D

Yeah but then you got people who'd take it seriously, hop in their car and run them over. :-D

Did u notice any quality difference (ie: chest snapping bass compared to bum rumbles?) I was told that it helps keep things cool due to keeping the transient voltage at peak levels and thus keeping the amps lower... Is this true ya reckon?

My capacitor helped my system a lot, it's a much more punchier sound, and the sound-deadening helps this about 10 times more. Well worth the purchase if you ask me. Plus, a couple of girls saw my capacitor and thought it was a bomb. Haha, funny shiiiittt :-)

So.... see I've (sorry 2 steal a thread) got a 350wrms system ATM without caps..... Would ya reckon this would make my fully sick system change into a fully hectic one? Or are there better things to spend money on first (ie: soundproofing)?

Nah, you wont notice it as much as sound-deadening. But I still think a good capacitor is an idea that should be taken into consideration after sound-deadening. The idea of it is, for every 1000Watts your system has, a 1.0Farad capacitor should be used (not should, but that's the idea of it). So if your system is 10000Watts all up, than a 10 Farad capacitor is what you'd use.

the only capacitor u need is one that has two features:

digital readout

has chrome on it

:D

Besides these two, there's not much to them except for being a potential fire hazard

Yeah but the whole vehicle is a potential fire hazard so putting it all on a capacitor is silly. I personally think every vehicle should come stock with a fire extinguisher, a fire can start pretty easily. Either way, I don't have a fire extinguisher, I got no where to put one..god damn false floor took up all my room :D

Think about it guys, a cap is stupid. Bling Bling only.
Let me put it this way.

If your car is running lean on fuel and your losing power because of this (think of this as the amps sucking too much power), do you buy a turbo to pick up the loss in power? (thats adding the cap) no way, you just change the fuel ratio. (thats upgrading the wires etc)

Adding a cap is fixing the problem of the surge for bass hits, but not solving the original one of the cables being to small or not having a decent battery etc.

So even after adding the cap you many think, ay my lights stop dimming and problem solved, but NO you havnt solved the original problem and now your prob going to blow a wire and set your car on fire :D

So remember.

CAPS = Bling only

and if someone tells you, you need a cap to fix that problem, you know now they dont know what their talking about.

So do those things uncle tim says, quote for those to lazy to read back

"before a cap, I'd look at,
Upgrade wiring. 4 gauge or larger
Shorten amp grounds
new battery
Upgrade engine grounds
dual battery

in that order..."

and youll be fine.

PS: dont believe me... go to a spl comp, see those guys pulling about 20,000 watts of power, how many caps you see? NONE.

case closed :bowrofl:

PS: dont believe me... go to a spl comp, see those guys pulling about 20,000 watts of power, how many caps you see? NONE.


yes, but are they driving it around at night with all 20,000 watts being fully utilised?

Ascension, wrong.

yes, but are they driving it around at night with all 20,000 watts being fully utilised?

yeh, but then tehre are ppl driving around with 800wrms, thinking their system is crash hot, and they want to get a cap also. THey're system isn't using all that 800wrms either.

so eh, caps suck, evil marketing scheme to suck in homeboy rice civic nobs.

caps are good if u want to have something look cool in your boot and have your mates that know nothing about car audio go 'ohhhh, aaaahhh' 'sully fick brrooo!!' kekeke. ^.^

Ascension, wrong.
care to back that up ? then just say that you think hes wrong :confused:

Thinking back to my Physics days in high school, the only thing i can see a capacitor doing is making the signal clearer by increasing the voltage, decreasing distortion, but when you do that you are decreasing the ampage, so wouldn't that decrease the volume of the output?
In other words, if your headlights are flashing, turn your stereo down, it does the same thing doesn't it?

*edit*
Watts = Volts x amps
Say you are pulling 1000 watts @ 14v
That's about 71 amps (my boss amp is 1200w and only has a 60a fuse on it :nuts: ).
Now if the voltage is dropping is it because the amps are too high? (having the stereo loud).
So the capacitor would up the voltage and decrease the amps.
lol it's been years since i learnt this stuff, can anyone make any sense out of what i'm saying?

"That's about 71 amps (my boss amp is 1200w and only has a 60a fuse on it"

Thats because its not 1200 watts rms, its 1200 watt PEAK.

So really your LUCKY if its 600 rms, chances are being boss, its round 400 or something.

"So the capacitor would up the voltage and decrease the amps."
A cap isnt some special unit that does that, it doesnt do anything like that.
Think of a CAP as a battery that only kicks in when power gets low. (thats what it really is really)

During normal play, when the battery can cope fine it supplys current to the amps without struggle and at the same time it charges the cap.
When a big bass note hits which draws alot of current, the battery/wires cant supply all that current in one go, because the battery is no good or small wires etc. Now what happens is the cap kicks in and supplys that extra current for those power hungry bass notes.

So by definition a cap is used when a system is designed poorly, it doesnt matter if your pulling 10,000 watts, you dont need a cap if you FIX the original problem.
Its like trying to put out a factory fire with a garden hose, your not going to get enough water, to get more water you need to upgrade where the water is coming from and upgrade the hose. Not start filling up buckest of water from the pissy little garden hose.
Geez I could go on for years with comparasions.

Youll be amazed that when you have say a 500 watt rms sub and 75 watt rms splits, during normal pumpin levels, your prob lucky to be giving your splits 20 watts and the sub 100, all because of the exponential relation between DB and watts.

Okai heres the common logic part, anyone should be able to understand.
If your lights dim, what does that mean, their not getting enough power (DUH?). If there not getting enough power when bass hits then the thing that supplys your system with power isnt capable of supply that much power in one go (DUH AGAIN?) So either your cables are too small which dont let enough power through, or your alternator/battery isnt powerfull enough to supply those burst of power.

you wonder why people blow their car up with caps, because the cap HIDES the problem of small wires. If you have a cap that makes a difference in your system, you problem have wires heating up somewhere just ready to start a fire.

and thats the bottom line....

geez what a rant.

Siccness how am I wrong? care to explain to us how it really all works?

Ascension has a very valid point..
If your power and Ground wires are not up to scratch and cannot put up with the current draw, then placing a 0.5 farad Storage Cap onto your system will heat up the wires and cause a fire..
Look at getting a wire Upgrade before getting a cap..

:bowrofl: come on!

NO CAP, NO CAP.

A cap supplys power when the voltage drops to keep the power stable THATS WHAT A CAP DOES.

So if you think you need a cap, that means your voltage is dropping. If your voltage is droppping its because of poor setup. SIMPLE.

Cap's are good for bling, but will not make ur system any louder.

SPL guys know this, caps actually reduce the output of your amps when burping.

If you are burping for instance, the cap will be drained very quickly. Once it is empty it is just more resistance between the amp and the battery.

Your amps already have caps inside them. These iron out any fluctuations in voltage. Even the cheapest amps do this.

Keep it simple.

You will get much more benefit by using 0 gauge or 2 gauge compared to a cap. Using proper connections. and spending the money where you will hear it.

eg speakers, amps (more headroom) headunit (cleaner source) sound dd (less ambient noise/rattles etc)

For $50 it's not a waste of money as long as you realise it will not make it sound any better. And will potentially make ur wiring hazardous.

If anyone can prove me wrong plz enlighten me. I know ppl who have burped with caps and without. All the CAASQ boys laugh at caps.

Caps are a bandaid solution to a bigger problem which is the battery, altenator and wiring.

Peace

Tim

a Cap is nothing without a decent Alternator and Battery...
A Cap is used for the instant power Needed for Big Bass Hits..So when your Subs drop bottom the amps have access to instantly stored power....but all this will go to waste if the wiring is not up to scratch..

Caps are not supposed to make your system go louder, but have more control with extreme bottom end..

The reason your headlights dim is because you are drawing enough total current from the alternator that it can't supply the regulator with a high enough voltage to give you your normal charging ~13.8 volts.

When the car is running all the current is supplied by the alternator, this can be drawn by your lights, the battery charging, etc. The higher the current drawn by these devices the less headroom you have for your stereo. To add to the load, voltage drop in undersized cables also wastes power (results in heating up cables/fire risk).

When enough current is drawn to drop the alternator voltage to the normal battery voltage then the battery also starts to supply current instead of being charged/floated.

If the battery is in good condition and has a fairly low ESR (ie. high CCA capacity or ability to supply a lot of current quickly in lay terms) it should be able to provide more than enough current instantaneously to power all of your equipment with the engine off. How long for is another question...

A capacitor right next to your amp will provide a buffer, pretty much; if the voltage at the cap becomes lower than the voltage in the cap, the cap will start to supply current as well.

When a loud bass note hits, more current is drawn, more voltage losses in cables and alternator voltage output drops. With a capacitor there, it supplies the amp with current minimising the voltage drop in the line.

No matter how good your cabling is you will always get voltage drop when you are drawing current. Amps have caps on their inputs (internally) so that these transients don't affect the amp output.

If these caps are insufficient; look at your wiring for losses, check your alternator function/capacity and check your battery.

It would seem the morel to the story is buy decent cabling, battery and install it properly then there should be no problems.

I just wanted it cus it was Bling Bling :P

I just wanted it cus it was Bling Bling :P
Now we're getting closer to the truth.

care to back that up ? then just say that you think hes wrong :confused:

Nah I've been through this argument with 10,000 people, I can't be bothered going through it again. Check all the other posts I've done in relation to Capacitors, :-)

Well I did a search for your name and anything relating to "Capacitor" and there isnt anything about you explaining how they work :confused:

Looks like you dont know what your talking about :badgrin: cheers.

If you honestly think im wrong please state how, or if you dont everyones going to think you dont know what your talking about.

And if your just going to reply with "I dont have to bla bla bla" then dont bother replying.

Yeah, that's something to care about. Hahaha.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/capacitor.htm

so what your saying is that you need to get bigger cables. i have 4 guage cable running to a 60wrms per channel 4 chanel amp and it has 40 fuse on it. i am going to get a 750wrms mono amp that uses 60 amp fuse it will have its own 4 gauge cable. so that is 100 amps maximum. the stock alternater is 85 amps. the stock headlights take approx 60 watts thats 5 amps each so 10 amps. that is 110 amps with stereo going full capacity and headlights. so lets say hyperthetically that you use moderate volume so your total load wilst driving is 110 amps with lights(parkers,brakes, one blinker,headlights not highbeam) and stereo. it "should" be safe to run a capacitor with the two 4guage. because the main issue is heat from the wires. so then a 1.5 Farad cap should do it. so the big question of this post is if the cap costs $400 for a good one (it could be cheaper or more expensive), what is the cost of an alternater that can produce the current required. because all the cap would do is store charge like "sort of" increasing the alternators capacity. so as before what would the cost of the alternator be because my wiring can handle the cap and heat?

edit: the two 4guage will be changed to 2 guage to a distribution block with 4guage to each amp and unsure for cap.

p.s soz about the long reply :D

TE on magnas run a 110amp alternator see if u can make on of them fit.

Generally speaking auto electricians sell/make rewound alternators usually for around the $250 mark.

And dont forget to buy a good battery (gel cell or something)

but what im saying is what price is a new not rewound alternator. i have a tr and that has an 85 amp alternator. or would the cap be the cheaper solution as the wiring is sufficient for it.

If you upgrade altenators the only way to get the benefit is by playing with the gearing on them so they spin faster as well. Otherwise ul see no benefit.

And a stereo will never draw near its RMS rating listening to dynamic music. Maybe 1/5th of that at normal listening levels.

i know that. thats why i said all the conditions as above as the maximum normal load. but what is the price of a new higher current alternator.

When your car is off the alternator doesnt even RUN.

But you can still turn your headlights ON with no problem what so ever.

Do you understand what im saying?

So when your driving the alternator may not be able to supply all the power for the big bursts but it doesnt matter because its still connected to the battery.

So your voltage levels should never drop below 12 volts if you have a decent battery.

And at 12volts you know your lights wont dim because they work when your cars off.

So get a optima battery or even a half decent brand and you wont have any problems if your cables are grounds are good.

And yeah good one siccness, just post a link to howstuffworks, really shows what your talking about.

The reason the headlights dim when the car is running is the fact that they get near 14 volts and when the stereo is on loud and theres a big bass hit that current will drop down to 12volt. same as having your lights on and your car off then start your car you'll notice the lights get brighter.

Finding a "new" high amp alternator isnt easy and there's certainly nothing wrong with a rebuilt one. They use nearly all new internal parts when they do it and the rewind them so they can create more current. they change the number of winds and the thickness of the winds inside.

Changing the pulleys on an alternator only changes the point were it reaches maximum charge not how many amps it puts out. The internals govern this, By changing the pulleys you may move the peak charging point from say 5000rpm down to 3000rpm. But if the engine is a high reving engine then its best to go the other way otherwise it will "burn" the alt out quicker.

so then what battery would you guys recomend, and how many amps can it supply in total. i think we are finaly getting to a best fit solution. ie upgrade battery first if you have good size wires then maybe think cap. but as before what battery would you recomend. a thought occurs if your cars running and you draw as before 110 amps but your alternator can produce 85 max amps wont you eventually flaten your battery whilst you drive. wont that be embarasing. :bowrofl:

To start, NO SYSTEM will be drawing 115 amps.

If your sub amp is rated at 1000 watts rms, yes 1000watts/12V = 83 amps.

But on average even when your pumpin this thing, you wont be drawing even half of that, not even close!

Youll prob be drawing like 30 amps and be hurting your ears.

An 80 amp alternator is bigger then youll ever need.

If you added my systems total amp draw like that its round 100 amps, but my alt is like 40 amps only.

Best battery in the business is optima (yellow top one), theirs no question about that.
I think there like 350/400 something like that.

But for something cheaper i wouldnt have a clue, maybe someone else can fill in?

well just to add another post to this thread,

yes, Power=Voltage x I(Current)

Voltage and current is RMS...if u have peak voltage, divide by sqrt(2)

so

Power
------ =Voltage x I(Current)
sqrt(2)

just felt like adding that. and i'm not gonna write an essay on caps, u know where google is, and that'll get it all for ya anyways...

-2nd year uni physics student :D

Best battery in the business is optima (yellow top one), theirs no question about that.
I think there like 350/400 something like that.

thanks ascension you have finaly answered the question and that my battery will not go flat whilst driving. had a feeling it wouldnt. cheers

Some systems can draw a couple of hundred amps (spl based).
Im using a conservative 100 amp fuse on my main powerline, but I dont get that loud. (nor do i expect my fuse to ever blow.

Odyssey batteries are pretty good. But you cant go past the optima yellow.