when i lower my car, would ppl reccomend new shocks also?
probably only getting lows/ super lows combo. my car (and shocks) are only 2 years and 40,000kms old

A heavier duty shock is recommended when putting in lowered springs if its handling your after, if the springs are only for looks then leave your originals in

this has been covered many many times, but anyway here goes again

Yes you should change your shocks when lowering your car. Why? Because your original shocks are designed to work with a specified ride height, if you lower that ride height your shocks become perminantly compressed, this is bad and will cause them to wear out very very quickly. So in short, i guess you dont HAVE to change them straight away, but you will have to change them within 12 months cos thats all they will last for so you may aswell have them all changed at the same time and pay less in labour

ok thanks!

End of thread

:stoopid: ....

http://members.optusnet.com.au/miltonf/smilies/+1.gif tpc.

One thing to point out shox arent made to work at a particular ride height at all.
Thats a load of crap. Because the shox you buy to replace the standard ones are made to OEM specifications. Monroe kyb pedder even koni's to an extent arent made specifically for a lowered car the valving works all the way from full extention to full compression.

Even the factory ones will work for quite sometime. we lowered my sisters magna 20 months ago its still got the original mitsu ones in and there still fine.

Read up on your facts abit before giving people info.

this has been covered many many times, but anyway here goes again

Yes you should change your shocks when lowering your car. Why? Because your original shocks are designed to work with a specified ride height, if you lower that ride height your shocks become perminantly compressed, this is bad and will cause them to wear out very very quickly. So in short, i guess you dont HAVE to change them straight away, but you will have to change them within 12 months cos thats all they will last for so you may aswell have them all changed at the same time and pay less in labour
:owned:

I had to replace mine after 3 months after lowering. But i guess that's coz my car is 5 years old and never having changed shocks. lol

But yeah, shocks aren't made to work for a specific ride hight. They are all oem and are suppose to work properly from fully compressed to extended. Otherwise they wouldn't allow it to move that far either way. ;)

One thing to point out shox arent made to work at a particular ride height at all.
Thats a load of crap. Because the shox you buy to replace the standard ones are made to OEM specifications. Monroe kyb pedder even koni's to an extent arent made specifically for a lowered car the valving works all the way from full extention to full compression.

Even the factory ones will work for quite sometime. we lowered my sisters magna 20 months ago its still got the original mitsu ones in and there still fine.

Read up on your facts abit before giving people info.

agreed. i have read some dodgy info before from RJL25

One thing to point out shox arent made to work at a particular ride height at all.
Thats a load of crap. Because the shox you buy to replace the standard ones are made to OEM specifications. Monroe kyb pedder even koni's to an extent arent made specifically for a lowered car the valving works all the way from full extention to full compression.

Even the factory ones will work for quite sometime. we lowered my sisters magna 20 months ago its still got the original mitsu ones in and there still fine.

Read up on your facts abit before giving people info.


That's not completely true! Some shocks (such Monroe Sensatrak and Koni ??? (can't remember the model) have variable damping rates. ie; the valving does NOT work the same from full extension to full compression. These types of shocks are not suitable for lowered cars.

i didnt go into the specifics of it cos i didnt think it was necessary but as some people have questioned my advice i will. when you lower a car, by default the shocks become more compressed then they would normall be on a car that isnt lowered (see crap diagram), as a result when you go over a bump in the road, there is less travel in the shocks to absorb that bump in the road, cos they are already more compressed, so unless the shocks are suitably stiffer to compensate for this lack of travel, they will compress to their fullest much easier then they normall would on a car with a normal ride height, as such they wear out quicker :nuts:

yes shocks are designed to work the same from full compression to full extension, but that doesnt necessarily mean they will properly dampen a car with a low ride height. When a car is lowered it requires stiffer dampening, or otherwise they will just compress fully over every single bump. this is fact, go look it up. Think outside the bare facts and you will realise that i am right



agreed. i have read some dodgy info before from RJL25

so what exactly does this post acheive other then to have a go at me?? maybe you should read this: http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24719

That's not completely true! Some shocks (such Monroe Sensatrak and Koni ??? (can't remember the model) have variable damping rates. ie; the valving does NOT work the same from full extension to full compression. These types of shocks are not suitable for lowered cars.


koni dont have variable damping, koni's are manually adjustable and u can still use sensa traks on a lowered car, its just the valving is firmer thats all the shock still works its full range. just had a look through the koni catalogue nope definately no variable rate shocks.

If your going to try an prove someone wrong get your facts right, ok

koni dont have variable damping, koni's are manually adjustable and u can still use sensa traks on a lowered car, its just the valving is firmer thats all the shock still works its full range. just had a look through the koni catalogue nope definately no variable rate shocks.

If your going to try an prove someone wrong get your facts right, ok

go read my updated post tfv630, it will explain to you why infact i am right in saying that original equipment shocks will not work on a lowered car as lowered cars require stiffer dampening.

koni dont have variable damping, koni's are manually adjustable and u can still use sensa traks on a lowered car, its just the valving is firmer thats all the shock still works its full range. just had a look through the koni catalogue nope definately no variable rate shocks.

If your going to try an prove someone wrong get your facts right, ok


Yes, I know you can buy adjustable Koni's. Sorry...I'm bad...I was also told you can buy progressive rate Koni's as well (this was buy a Computer Line suspension place).

Monroe do not recommend Sensatrak's for lowered vehicles (check their website). BTW...no shock would work to it's "full range" with lowered springs, unless the shock is specifically designed for the lowered spring. In general, a lowered spring has less suspension travel!

Yes, I know you can buy adjustable Koni's. Sorry...I'm bad...I was also told you can buy progressive rate Koni's as well (this was buy a Computer Line suspension place).

Monroe do not recommend Sensatrak's for lowered vehicles (check their website). BTW...no shock would work to it's "full range" with lowered springs, unless the shock is specifically designed for the lowered spring. In general, a lowered spring has less suspension travel!

exactly :cool:

Yes, I know you can buy adjustable Koni's. Sorry...I'm bad...I was also told you can buy progressive rate Koni's as well (this was buy a Computer Line suspension place).

Monroe do not recommend Sensatrak's for lowered vehicles (check their website). BTW...no shock would work to it's "full range" with lowered springs, unless the shock is specifically designed for the lowered spring. In general, a lowered spring has less suspension travel!


And how does this affect the way a shock works, tell me that. call this number 07 3808 4698 and they will give you the same answer i did they are one of the best known suspension places in australia and when asked for a shock to suit lowered springs they will larf at you and say that a normal shock will do the job.

Only time a "special" shock is recommended is if the spring wont stay captive then you will have to use a shorter shock but his is a legal thing only.

I will say it again a shock works from complete compression to full extension regardless of what spring is in there. It doesnt matter if the shock only moves an inch or 6 inches it still will control the bound and rebound.

and as to the needing stiffer shocks for lower springs thats only the case if your after handling as i said in my first post, if your after looks then leave them, if your after handling then change them.

And just out of curiosity what shocks are you guys running in your cars as i would like to try these shocks that are specifically made for lowered springs.
Ive hunted through all the brands for various different cars and have only found ones for the rear of the holden or the falcon.

ok thanks!

End of thread


:stoopid: ....

http://members.optusnet.com.au/miltonf/smilies/+1.gif tpc.
what happened?

:shifty::shifty::shifty:

And how does this affect the way a shock works, tell me that.

i have already explained this at length, i even drew a diagram. We clearly have different opinions on the subject but one fact still remains true, and thats that whenever someone lowers their car, their original shocks seem to wear out CONSIDERABLY quicker then they do in a car with a normal ride height.


It doesnt matter if the shock only moves an inch or 6 inches it still will control the bound and rebound.

if it only has 1 inch of travel as opposed to 6 then its much more likely to bottom out isnt it? i dont consider a car that is constantly bottoming out to be controlling the rebound very well at all actually.. and its a good way to wear them out quickly too

I think we should agree to dissagree :)

And how does this affect the way a shock works, tell me that. call this number 07 3808 4698 and they will give you the same answer i did they are one of the best known suspension places in australia and when asked for a shock to suit lowered springs they will larf at you and say that a normal shock will do the job.

Only time a "special" shock is recommended is if the spring wont stay captive then you will have to use a shorter shock but his is a legal thing only.

I will say it again a shock works from complete compression to full extension regardless of what spring is in there. It doesnt matter if the shock only moves an inch or 6 inches it still will control the bound and rebound.

and as to the needing stiffer shocks for lower springs thats only the case if your after handling as i said in my first post, if your after looks then leave them, if your after handling then change them.

And just out of curiosity what shocks are you guys running in your cars as i would like to try these shocks that are specifically made for lowered springs.
Ive hunted through all the brands for various different cars and have only found ones for the rear of the holden or the falcon.


You can put any variable rate shocks on your lowered Magna and kiss your ride and handling goodbye.

The "stiffness" range of the shock will be basically the opposite of what the shock was designed to do. Basically, under normal conditions, the shocks will be in the "firm" range, which means the springs will not compress or extend as easily. Likewise, once the springs start to extend, they will extend more readily than they should 'cause the shock would go into it's "soft" range. Effectively, what you would be doing is making it hard for your springs to compress over bumps, and extend too much when the spring rebounds.

i have already explained this at length, i even drew a diagram. We clearly have different opinions on the subject but one fact still remains true, and thats that whenever someone lowers their car, their original shocks seem to wear out CONSIDERABLY quicker then they do in a car with a normal ride height.



if it only has 1 inch of travel as opposed to 6 then its much more likely to bottom out isnt it? i dont consider a car that is constantly bottoming out to be controlling the rebound very well at all actually.. and its a good way to wear them out quickly too

I think we should agree to dissagree :)


I think you misunderstood me when i said an inch or 6 i didnt mean when its bottomed out, i meant a shock will work the same anywhere in its range regardless how much it moves.

and yes we should agree to disagree

I think you misunderstood me when i said an inch or 6 i didnt mean when its bottomed out, i meant a shock will work the same anywhere in its range regardless how much it moves.

no i didnt missunderstand you at all.. if the shock is sitting in a position where it only has 1 inch of travel because the car is lowered, then it only has 1 inch of space to absorb any bumps in the road, whereas if the car was not lowered it would have considerably more room to absorb that impact. As a result the shocks need to be tuned different to compensate for this lack of travel or otherwise they will be constantly bottoming out.

You can put any variable rate shocks on your lowered Magna and kiss your ride and handling goodbye.

The "stiffness" range of the shock will be basically the opposite of what the shock was designed to do. Basically, under normal conditions, the shocks will be in the "firm" range, which means the springs will not compress or extend as easily. Likewise, once the springs start to extend, they will extend more readily than they should 'cause the shock would go into it's "soft" range. Effectively, what you would be doing is making it hard for your springs to compress over bumps, and extend too much when the spring rebounds.



Quoted straight from monroe.

monroe sensa-trac brings new level of comfort, control and safety to Australian driving.
Using an innovative design, Sensa-trac combines the developement of grooved tube valving technology (automatically adjusting as driving conditions change)
with the proven benefits of gas pressurisation.

Sensa-trac's design allows the piston to move within 2 damping zones. During normal driving conditions the piton works in the 'comfort zone', with fluid flowing through and past the piston, the result is a smooth comfortable ride.
When driving conditions become more demanding such as rough undulating roads or during sudden vehicle manoeuvers, The piston works in the control zone and fluid is forced through the piston this results in a firmer more positive control of the vehicle.
when the 2 functions are combined the ultimate result is comfort when you want it, control when you need it.

theres no mention of needing to have standard springs as the shock works mainly on the velocity not the ride height.

once again make sure you have the info correct before posting an arguementitive reply.
i have the monroe book right here with me and the koni book the bilstein, boge, kyb books here also and not one of them mention the need to run a special shock for lowered vehicles except where the spring wont stay captive. And since yesterday i made a few more calls to suspension experts and they dont see a need either.

seriously get your info right before posting against someone cause its obvious that you have little to no idea or info to back up your statements. I have all the info on hand i need to keep proving you wrong, so keep it up guys ownong you is fun.

so keep it up guys ownong you is fun.

Your not owning anyone mate. You have your opinion based on a range of different sources, we also have our own opinion also based on a range of different sources, please accept this.

But one fact you havent yet "owned us" on is you have yet to explain why normal shocks seem to wear out so fast on a lowered car where as stiffer shocks dont

Quoted straight from monroe.

monroe sensa-trac brings new level of comfort, control and safety to Australian driving.
Using an innovative design, Sensa-trac combines the developement of grooved tube valving technology (automatically adjusting as driving conditions change)
with the proven benefits of gas pressurisation.

Sensa-trac's design allows the piston to move within 2 damping zones. During normal driving conditions the piton works in the 'comfort zone', with fluid flowing through and past the piston, the result is a smooth comfortable ride.
When driving conditions become more demanding such as rough undulating roads or during sudden vehicle manoeuvers, The piston works in the control zone and fluid is forced through the piston this results in a firmer more positive control of the vehicle.
when the 2 functions are combined the ultimate result is comfort when you want it, control when you need it.

theres no mention of needing to have standard springs as the shock works mainly on the velocity not the ride height.

once again make sure you have the info correct before posting an arguementitive reply.
i have the monroe book right here with me and the koni book the bilstein, boge, kyb books here also and not one of them mention the need to run a special shock for lowered vehicles except where the spring wont stay captive. And since yesterday i made a few more calls to suspension experts and they dont see a need either.

seriously get your info right before posting against someone cause its obvious that you have little to no idea or info to back up your statements. I have all the info on hand i need to keep proving you wrong, so keep it up guys ownong you is fun.



Taken from the Monroe website. I was also told the same thing by 2 different Monroe sales reps.

TJ,TJII, Only Sedans

Front
GT Gas w/- Reflex Strut 35-0409,35-0410 Standard, Lowered, Raised
Kit Magic Camber MC212+ Standard, Lowered, Raised
Kit Strut Mate 63619 Standard, Lowered, Raised
Sensatrac Strut 37-0409,37-0410 Standard <--- * STANDARD RIDE HEIGHT ONLY *

Rear
GT Gas w/- Reflex Shock Absorber 15-0347+ Standard, Lowered, Raised
Sensatrac Shock Absorber 37-0347 Standard <--- * STANDARD RIDE HEIGHT ONLY *


And, if you still don't believe me, do a search for other cars...they all give the same results. Sensatraks are not recommended for ANY lowered vehicle. Or, give Monroe a call on 08 8374 5222, and they can explain all of the reasons why you shouldn't use variable rate shocks with lowered springs. It's not that you can't...it's just not recommended. Either way...it's your car...so it's your decision...

And not all shocks wear quicker with lowered springs, unless they are near the end of there life. If you were to put some new OEM shocks in when lowering it they would last the same as with the standard spring. As i said in a previous post my sisters magna has had lowered springs in now for 20 months on the original shocks and they still work really well (she has done about 30,000k's on them), so to answer your question the shocks may not be wearing quicker its the fact that they are normally nearing the end of there servicable life, and with heavy duty springs the lack of control becomes more evident.

most of the time when peeps lowere there car they have a fair amount of k's on them, and shocks are really only good for a max of about 160,000k's under normal circumstances, and 70% of the time when you lower your car peeps assume that they now handle better so they drive harder in turn wearing them out quicker. The servicable life of a shock depends heavily on the type of driving you do!

Another point to make is the vrx and sports have a lower spring then an executive but use the same shock (well the aftermarket suppliers only list one type) and they will still get the same amount of k's as an executive. can you explain that with you theories.

but i think we just need to agree to disagree again instead of continuing on with this pointless arguement. You dont believe me and i wont believe you. lets just leave it at that.

Taken from the Monroe website. I was also told the same thing by 2 different Monroe sales reps.

TJ,TJII, Only Sedans

Front
GT Gas w/- Reflex Strut 35-0409,35-0410 Standard, Lowered, Raised
Kit Magic Camber MC212+ Standard, Lowered, Raised
Kit Strut Mate 63619 Standard, Lowered, Raised
Sensatrac Strut 37-0409,37-0410 Standard <--- * STANDARD RIDE HEIGHT ONLY *

Rear
GT Gas w/- Reflex Shock Absorber 15-0347+ Standard, Lowered, Raised
Sensatrac Shock Absorber 37-0347 Standard <--- * STANDARD RIDE HEIGHT ONLY *


And, if you still don't believe me, do a search for other cars...they all give the same results. Sensatraks are not recommended for ANY lowered vehicle. Or, give Monroe a call on 08 8374 5222, and they can explain all of the reasons why you shouldn't use variable rate shocks with lowered springs. It's not that you can't...it's just not recommended. Either way...it's your car...so it's your decision...

:owned:

Taken from the Monroe website. I was also told the same thing by 2 different Monroe sales reps.

TJ,TJII, Only Sedans

Front
GT Gas w/- Reflex Strut 35-0409,35-0410 Standard, Lowered, Raised
Kit Magic Camber MC212+ Standard, Lowered, Raised
Kit Strut Mate 63619 Standard, Lowered, Raised
Sensatrac Strut 37-0409,37-0410 Standard <--- * STANDARD RIDE HEIGHT ONLY *

Rear
GT Gas w/- Reflex Shock Absorber 15-0347+ Standard, Lowered, Raised
Sensatrac Shock Absorber 37-0347 Standard <--- * STANDARD RIDE HEIGHT ONLY *


And, if you still don't believe me, do a search for other cars...they all give the same results. Sensatraks are not recommended for ANY lowered vehicle. Or, give Monroe a call on 08 8374 5222, and they can explain all of the reasons why you shouldn't use variable rate shocks with lowered springs. It's not that you can't...it's just not recommended. Either way...it's your car...so it's your decision...

One thing i would like to point out here is you only have one part number for either standard lowered or raised, Kinda shoots down the theory of having t get a lowered strut doesnt it.

Good to see your post supports some of my theory.

As for the sensa-trac they dont mention it in there catalogue as not being able to be used on a lowered car and upon looking at there listings for the tj11 there is nothing written there about "standard height only" they have the same number for all of them including vrx verada and AWD, even the earlier gen 3's run the same sensatrac, same part no. from 4/96 on I guess there catalogue they send to there suppliers must be wrong then, None of there suppliers have heard about what you were saying either they are contacting the reps to find out if your right.
The rep i spoke with said "it may void the warranty because you cant use the full bumpstop or boot on them" and thats it. And this goes for all there shocks. He actually suggested the sensa trac because it would be a stiffer shock for better control. guess he must be misinformed aswell.

One thing i would like to point out here is you only have one part number for either standard lowered or raised, Kinda shoots down the theory of having t get a lowered strut doesnt it.

Good to see your post supports some of my theory

but it does support the theory that NOT ALL SHOCKS ARE DESIGNED TO WORK ON LOWERED CARS which we have been saying all along!! We never ever, not once, said that there wasnt shocks that would work on standard, lowered and raised springs perfectly fine, we simply said that not ALL shocks are designed to do so, and this includes most OEM shocks

Agree to disagree folks.

/thread closed