Well it has been asked a few Times " What is the Best way to face my Subs for Maximum Bass?"

For Sedans the Best position is to Face the subs Facing the Boot Lid so when you open the Boot you see your Subs Cone Side..
This Does not Matter if you have Sealed or a ported enclosure...

Of coarse there are Positive and Negatives of Loading Subs like this and I have narrowed them down to the following

Positive Side
1.Your Audible Bass Volume Increases so your Ears believe you have more Bass Power then what you realy have
2. When you open your Boot you will have an Eye Catching install
3. You open the Ski port there is no sub for Passengers to Poke (Good thing if you have Kids
4.You do not have to Stress your amp as hard as you would if you had them Facing forward as your ears will now hear more bass requiring less power
5. No more Cone noise from the sub, so you won't hear any cone flapping when the bass drops low.
6 By firing your subs into the Boot, you effectively create another enclosure infront of your subs allowing more Bass ( This one is Just Theory)
7.Lowering the Ski port will allow a clean path for Bass to enter into the Cabin acting like a Bass Port
8.Now you can enjoy Bass with 3 people in the back seat instead of 2 when you have your Sub mounted forwards as now you will get deep bass without the need to lower the ski port allowing you to cruise with one more mate...

The Negatives
1. When you open your Skiport all you will see is the back of the Enclosure
2.Your Subs are more Prone to damage from objects in the boot
3. There is a Tiny Delay in Bass response so Bass Accuracy is off a little
4. More Boot lid vibrations
5 Bass Quality is hindered a little

Conclusion..
For the everyday AMC member who like their Bass loud and Proud but only have a single 10 inch sealed sub and only 50w RMS to feed their sub this set up will make your Sub sound louder..

I will let S_tim_ulate cover the Pro's and Cons of Front Mounting subs....

Nice post Magnat.

BTW, you forgot to say that you can't rear-load Kenwoods either.... :badgrin:

On the delay that rear loading has - I have Time Alignment correction on my HU, so I delay the 6x9's by 2ms, and the front speakers by about 7ms. Works great and no bass delay!

Tim - can you give us better time alignment figures?

Edit: also another problem is that if your Subs are decent enough (like 1x 15" or even 2x 12" or those 3x 10" systems), if you have the ski port closed, the bass actually makes the cones of the 6x9's go mental. All that power from the cone area of the subs, to the cone area of teh 6x9's.

Just do what Tim does.... take the 6x9s out!

Nice post Magnat.

BTW, you forgot to say that you can't rear-load Kenwoods either.... :badgrin:


You and I both know that people who buy Kenwood subs are just after pretty looking paperweights for the boot... :badgrin:

touche!

Edit: also another problem is that if your Subs are decent enough (like 1x 15" or even 2x 12" or those 3x 10" systems), if you have the ski port closed, the bass actually makes the cones of the 6x9's go mental. All that power from the cone area of the subs, to the cone area of teh 6x9's.


I too have had that problem as I've got my sub facing upwards about 40cm from the rear 6x9s... This wasn't a problem when I had the dogey Kenwoods in there but I've now got a set of focals that are seeming to "suck" the bass by playing in phase with the woofer. I have wired the woofer out of phase to compensate this but it appears muddy, especially when double kicks are played. I've just finnished reconstructing a box which will play thru the ski port which does make it more accurate, and I don't have to worry about the 6x9s having over exertion from the sub.

I think I may end up facing the woofer back into the cabin and seal the rear 6x9s off...

Has anyone else done this?

it's a common problem.

I am actually thinking about removing my 6x9's from their hole, and doing abit of cutting, fit in one of those pre-fab 6x9 boxes into it so they are in a sealed airspace, unaffected by the woofer.

Please note that this requires engineering approval.... cutting the rear parcel shelf reduces structral strength.

As I said I narrowed it Down..
Yes the Rear speakers do have added Pressure underneath them..
It is Easy to compensate by adjusting sound more to the front, this Cuts down the Power to the rears..
Another solution is to Disconnect the Rear Speakers and use them as Passive Bass Radiators enhancing your Bass output..

For this Problem My friend and I experimented by Porting his Rear Shelf It seemed to help cure it but didnt stop it all together...

Sacrifices for supreme Bass must be done..
I dont have this Problem as my Sub box seals my 6x9's from the boot. The Volume at which my 6x9's bottom out is unbearable anyway..

I too have had that problem as I've got my sub facing upwards about 40cm from the rear 6x9s... This wasn't a problem when I had the dogey Kenwoods in there but I've now got a set of focals that are seeming to "suck" the bass by playing in phase with the woofer. I have wired the woofer out of phase to compensate this but it appears muddy, especially when double kicks are played. I've just finnished reconstructing a box which will play thru the ski port which does make it more accurate, and I don't have to worry about the 6x9s having over exertion from the sub.

I think I may end up facing the woofer back into the cabin and seal the rear 6x9s off...

Has anyone else done this?
Facing the woofer into the Cabin should Stop the 6x9's from Bottoming out anyway as the Bass Wave will be fired into the cabin and not into the Boot...

I have Used a mini wall above a Rear loaded enclosure and it stops the rear speakers from being affected.. but the Bass quality from the rear speakers was diminished..

As I have stated it is the Optimum Bass Loading for the Subs, not the Ideal Loading for all the speakers as there are so many Variables...

...I have wired the woofer out of phase to compensate this ...

How do you do this? Is there a setting somewhere, or a wiring technique?

Wiring Technique, you swap the Positive and Ngative wiring on one speaker to make it play out of phase, it reduces Bass Output and increases Treble...

Another bad point for rear loading is you have no ski port, which is unfortunate for those of us who need it for snow boards and ski's.

Thats why i got a fiberglass one on the side for winter and a box one for rear loading in summer.

Biggest hassle moving it around though especially when the amps need to be moved and subs need to change boxes...

All right, Whats with all the kenwood hatin' around here?

Is there a "Kenwood Lover #1" cause if there isn't, I'll be the first!

Kenwood Gear has a very High failure rate..
They can't even make proper Electric Kettles , what Chance do they have of making Car audio..

Is there any way at all of protecting your cones from damage if they're rear-facing? I'm considering installing some subs, but it's a daily driver/family car so I still need to be able to use the boot for shopping/bikes/etc.

Is there any way at all of protecting your cones from damage if they're rear-facing? I'm considering installing some subs, but it's a daily driver/family car so I still need to be able to use the boot for shopping/bikes/etc.

You can buy sub grills that protect the cone. Or, if you want to make your own, use a towel rack in front of the sub.

The best option though would be a bandpass box. The sub is protected inside the box and for their smaller size, they have good output.

I once made a sub box for a mate (see pics) which used a baffle for bass loading (and to keep the dodgey SANSUI subs from bombing out). This also provided good protection for the subs... Not that he could fit anything in the boot after putting the box in anyways!!!

http://www.lavendergreenooaks.com/BEN/CIMG9515.JPG http://www.lavendergreenooaks.com/BEN/CIMG9517.JPG

The sound eminated through the 3" slot towards the top and also through the ports on the side facing the rear.
I guess you could nearly call it a bandpass/ported box hybrid. This design allows a little more control over cheaper subs, which tend to overexert easily.

http://www.lavendergreenooaks.com/BEN/CIMG9522.JPG

It was 38ltrs/sub ported to 30hz.

Just food for thought.....

Wow... Nice enclosure..

Bandpass enclosures look very trick, protect your cones at the cost of masking distortion, it is hard to tell when you are pushing a Bandpass enclosured sub past safe limits.. sometimes they can go up in a cloud of smoke without notice...

Autotechnica make a great single sub bandpass enclosure but as to the difficulty of the build.. Band pass enclosures tend to cost a little more..

Speaker grills are one way but I have seen Bath towel racks also used to good effect..

I'm thinking that for my purposes, it would be better to forward-face and fire through the ski port, and protect the rear with the rear wood/perspex wall of the box. I'd rather buy quality than use mounting tricks to try to mask the averageness of average subs.. :)

I'd rather buy quality than use mounting tricks to try to mask the averageness of average subs.. :)

Yeah... They certainly wouldn't have been my first choice either. Apparently he bought them from Brzzy Car sound for $40 each!!! The specs showed that the SANSUI subs were more suited to a sealed enclosure and were rated at only 50wrms! :bowrofl: However, he wanted to see how much bass he could squeeze out of them so I found the only solution was to port the enclosure and compensate the boomy bass with the baffle. The bass loading of the baffle smoothed out the 50-80Hz response and enabled the subs to handle larger transient bass sounds without overexcursion. Still sounded boomy but they were able to play much louder than originally intended :dancin:

I'm thinking that for my purposes, it would be better to forward-face and fire through the ski port, and protect the rear with the rear wood/perspex wall of the box. I'd rather buy quality than use mounting tricks to try to mask the averageness of average subs.. :)


No mounting Tricks..
You either Forward face them and have superior Quality or You rear mount and have Superior Bass

Since I am a Bass head I like Rear Mount...


The Choice is always going to be yours...
We can only offer advise...
Have a listen to Both Setups, Rear mount and Front mount then decide what you want to do..
There is nothing stopping you from putting the Perspex Back towards the Ski port and having an awesome looking Neon lit Boot display or Turning it around so you can see the Cone...
If I were you I would try it one way, then if you dont like it Turn it around the other way...
it is not too hard to turn a Enclosure around to experiment...

Some news for you on my system...

For those of you that sat in my car last Sunday at Newcastle (Sharkie, Tonba?) the subs were faced forward.

I had attempted to seal around the sub box as much as I could with blankets (on the top anyway, the sides are very tight against the towers) to try and seal the bass back into the cabin, and not affect the 6x9 cones.

Bass was very, very clean and bought a big smile to my face :D

The 6x9's also exhibited much less disortion than usual :thumbsup:

However, the volume was turned up a couple notches more than usual :shock:

++++
Greetings All.

Yeah...your sub step up is great!! Sounded nice when i sat in it last...

Cant wait till i hear it again!!

--Tonba
++++

my brother has same set up as me

2 x 12" alpine type S subs but only 350wrms alpine amp (mine is 600wRms alpine amp) subs are 300wrms each.
his bass sounds louder inside and out side of the car his are faced fowards mine are rear facing. mine plays rock/heavy better (by a bit) but his is way way better for rap/dance and sound so much louder.
they are basically set up the same.

both of us have 3rd gens.... any idea why this is?

or are there too many variables to answer this question?

I finally decided to upgrade to 2x12's(sealed) from 1x12"(ported), when i was doing this i tried facing the subs forward back and even to the side, found no noticible change in quality only volume. So now there facing rearward sounds deeper and masks the natural tendencies of sub distortion ( which all do). With a good quality amp you shouldnt have to worry about cone control. the more power the better the control spesh with a class D amp and subsonic filter.

just my opinion

cheers

Brad

an idea for stopping your focal 6x9's from moving is that jb hifi have these foam 6x9 boxes. for like less than 10 dollars if i remember properly. that is at chaddy jb victoria btw.

my 10c :D

I finally decided to upgrade to 2x12's(sealed) from 1x12"(ported), when i was doing this i tried facing the subs forward back and even to the side, found no noticible change in quality only volume. So now there facing rearward sounds deeper and masks the natural tendencies of sub distortion ( which all do). With a good quality amp you shouldnt have to worry about cone control. the more power the better the control spesh with a class D amp and subsonic filter.

just my opinion

cheers

Brad

I second it..