There has be alot people talking about the 380 and lack of power in the VRX.

I believe that 380 VRX should have the motor from the US Eclipse/ US Ralliart Galant.

Early reports this year speculated on a 192 kw engine, check out Go-auto news and other press reports on this.

I personally would of brought a VRX with a 192 Kw engine, but now I will have to wait to update my 98 Magna Sports when Series 2 comes out :cry:

They have gotten 200kw out of a 3L mivec. What's the 192kw out of?

guys.. ITS A FAMILY CAR! its not necessary

But it handles sportily :badgrin: Hmm, average family car....wasn't looking that way from what mitsubishi was positioning it as, why not just make it a high spec option, keep everyone happy?

anyone else realise the fact that mitsubishi would fail if this car failed?? u really think theyre gonna flood the market with all sorts of options??? no, theyre gonna release an engine that compares with their competitors engines, gauge interest, and then phase 2 would be upgrades...

jees think about it!

oh, and having votes on what they should do/didnt do/etc wont exactly do much unless u wanna keep convincing urself of what they shoulda done until the sporty models come out. oh wait, then we'll just hear lots of 'i told ya so's...well just give it a rest, b happy its different and good value for money in comparison to the competitors, and watch the press in the next couple of months and see how it goes.

[/my $0.02]

does anyone remember for how long the magna sports had an engine that was no more powerful then the rest of the range? What about the VRX? it had a measly 7kw more then the top model.. whats so great about that??? its a negligable difference.. i just dont understand why everyone is getting so worked up about it.. how about the fact that the falcon XR6 (NA model) has the same power as the base model XT? or how about how the spack commodore had the exact same engine as the base model all the way up until the latest VZ...

I vote for whatever bendertiger doesnt vote for. Because he is a tool.

does anyone remember for how long the magna sports had an engine that was no more powerful then the rest of the range? What about the VRX? it had a measly 7kw more then the top model.. whats so great about that??? its a negligable difference.. i just dont understand why everyone is getting so worked up about it.. how about the fact that the falcon XR6 (NA model) has the same power as the base model XT? or how about how the spack commodore had the exact same engine as the base model all the way up until the latest VZ...

they have a commodore named after me now? :shock:

hehe just thought this thread needed some smiles :D

guys.. ITS A FAMILY CAR! its not necessary

So why does Holden have SV6 and SV8 and SS.
SV8 was created cause people where buy a Exec V8 and putting Mags on it.

Why does Ford have a XR6, XR6 turbo.

People want sporty cars, with more power than the base model. How many XR6 do you see on the road each day.
Mitsubishi needs to lose the Cardigan reputation.
Don't get me wrong the 380 looks as is properly a extremely good car. But a more powerful model would have been great from the start. As there will be people waiting for it.

I vote for whatever bendertiger doesnt vote for. Because he is a tool.

So you voted yes then.

does anyone remember for how long the magna sports had an engine that was no more powerful then the rest of the range?

My 98 Magana Sports had the same power as the base model (Awesome car has not miss a beat and has travelled most off Australia)

To my knowledge it was not until 3.5l motor was put into the Magna that the sports got more power. I think it was in 2000/2001 - 3 years after it came out

So why does Holden have SV6 and SV8 and SS.
SV8 was created cause people where buy a Exec V8 and putting Mags on it.

Why does Ford have a XR6, XR6 turbo.

lets not refer to ford and holden...theyre major companies here in aus...if they were in a 'do or die' situation, theyd cut back on their models as well, and just put out the ones that would sell...anything that was borderline would b cut. thats the situation mitsi is in at the mo, its all for nothing, but theyve atleast thought about it and not flooded the market with a million models and cars, so that all of them would b the least bought car in the market!

I don't know if anyone else has posted this info but....

I agree the VR-X and GT should have more bang for its bucks, but I've been told Mitsi didn't put MIVEC in the 380 coz they didn't have the time nor the funds to get it in for the Euro 3 laws, I'm told if they went ahead with MIVEC straight up it would've been Euro 2 and the 380 had to be Euro 3 to be released (the engine is actually almost Euro 4). Mitsi number one goal was to just get the car on the market (read you Wheels mag to see the sh*t they went through.) They where also happy with the power figures they where getting. Commodore and Avalon will also have this problem, but they will have more time now to sort it out. The reason the BF Falcon didn't have to change is because we are in the phase in stage of Euro 3 at the moment and facelift vehicles don't yet need to comply, but all new vehicles do.

On another note, the engines in GT and VR-X are NOT LPG compatiable, only 380 & LS/LX will have engines compatiable for gas (this is to do with different valves and seats), Since all models have the same engine I have no idea why they are doing this, but they are. Also Mitsi are not releasing a gas kit and will tell aftermarket mobs they have to match the 5/10 warranty before they give the ok for a gas system, this is apparntly a while away yet (if ever). The guy I spoke to reckon it will be almost impossible to fit gas to a 380 anyway. The first 40 380s of the line have handbooks in them that say that 380's are not compatiable at all.

One other thing, sat nav was supposed to be standard on GT, but the mob who Mitsi get to do the sat nav system (Eurovox i think) have been slack updating the maps (apparently the Pajero system was supposed to be updated 12 months ago and still hasn't been). Mitsi are hoping, by making Eurovox (i think) lose sales by not fitting the system std on GT, it will send a rocket up them to get the thing updated. sat nav is avalaible as an accessory.

Oh, did everyone know that the 380 is the 1st local car to have vented rear discs and they are larger than the fronts ?
And that the 380's with 16's and the 380's with 17's have different power steering racks (blue and pink) due to the different sizes alloys. So be careful if/when you buy a 380 and plan to put bigger rims on it, and make sure they will fit!

Maybe I shoud've started a new thread for this.

Sorry about any speeling, I'm to lazy to read it back and fix it up, so I hope it makes sence.

Yes it is a Family Car and Family Cars need Excess loads of Kw to pull 3 Obese Kids and their Chubby Parents and the Caravan in the Back up mountain passes with ease without overheating from Dad giving it a boot full just to do 40k's up the hill...

If Anything It should have more then 180Kw standard....

Yes it is a Family Car and Family Cars need Excess loads of Kw to pull 3 Obese Kids and their Chubby Parents and the Caravan in the Back up mountain passes with ease without overheating from Dad giving it a boot full just to do 40k's up the hill...

If Anything It should have more then 180Kw standard....

The USA 3.8 ltr MIVEC, is still a single overhead cam, the power is down on the 380 because it had to meet Euro 3 standards. Add some nice free flowing extractors, open the air intake up, and you'll get your extra 10-15 KW @ the fly. I don't know if the 3.8 in the 380 and the 3.8 in the Eclipse are the same because I can compare the spec's.

MMAL don't need MIVEC with the 380 anyway, they need to sell reliable cars, that intrest family buyers, and even more so, maybe some big companies and councils, so they can get some decent fleet sales. Besides how many of you have driven the 380 VR-X yet, I haven't but according to wheels:


Its almost inevitable that some will argue that kilowatts are credibility for any sedan with sporty aspirations. But they haven't experienced the VR-X's innate balance, tactile harmony, eager performance, and built in refinement, have they?

Sounds like a nice car to me. Im very excited the 380 has been released, and that MMAL survived a very very tough few years to produce this car. I mean just look at the standard spec of the 380, It blows the standard Commodores and Falcons away with its equipment levels.

anyone else realise the fact that mitsubishi would fail if this car failed?? u really think theyre gonna flood the market with all sorts of options??? no, theyre gonna release an engine that compares with their competitors engines, gauge interest, and then phase 2 would be upgrades...

jees think about it!

oh, and having votes on what they should do/didnt do/etc wont exactly do much unless u wanna keep convincing urself of what they shoulda done until the sporty models come out. oh wait, then we'll just hear lots of 'i told ya so's...well just give it a rest, b happy its different and good value for money in comparison to the competitors, and watch the press in the next couple of months and see how it goes.

[/my $0.02]

Thank you!

I wish people would stop whining about the power figures! They have to make something that will appeal to the MASSES so it will sell in large quantities so MMAL will SURVIVE.

This is literally do-or-die for them. They can't afford to make a super duper sports car, they have to make a car that LOTS of people want. They know that car enthusiasts will just modify them anyway.

Thank you!

I wish people would stop whining about the power figures! They have to make something that will appeal to the MASSES so it will sell in large quantities so MMAL will SURVIVE.

This is literally do-or-die for them. They can't afford to make a super duper sports car, they have to make a car that LOTS of people want. They know that car enthusiasts will just modify them anyway.

Especially after MMC's loses and budget cuts. Mitsubishi make a hardcore Sports car, Its called the EVO IX, and its now $56 800, plus onroads.

Also the 380 will be able to tow nicely, MMAL now how to make a good chasis and the 380 has been structurally re-enforced, plus it has a nice amount of torque as well, Cant wait to drive one.

Although, I would love to see the release of a Ralliart 380, but the 380 has to be a sales success for this to become a reality, a supercharged 380 would be awesome.

The 380 has not been built to appeal to "rev heads". Look at the official target buyer as stated by MMAL's launch release. It reads, in part

"The targeted 380 customers will predominantly be:

Male
The target age group is 35+, predominantly in the 40-56 year age group. With an average age of just over 48 years old. With 380 we are aiming to reduce our reliance on 50+ customers
Married with no children living at home
The target is to improve our appeal to a broader target market. Improving our appeal to white collar clerical as well as white collar professionals / senior managers
Income levels generally over $60,000
City / urban dweller in eastern seaboard state
The targeted 380 owners’ psychographic profiles cluster towards Visible Achievement, Socially Aware and Traditional Family Life in the Roy Morgan Research value segmentation.
Vehicle usage is around the suburbs or city streets, however importantly customers still use their vehicles for long trips.
Main reasons for choosing a Mitsubishi are; manufacturer, value for money, and design. With 380 we have made an incremental step with design and quality finish.
Mitsubishi large sedan owners are generally very satisfied with their vehicles with main strengths being; room/comfort, performance and design."

Note - target age - average 48 years. May l suggest 106kw/tonne power to weight ratio is more than adequate for a 48 year old. It may not be for an 18 year old, whom MMAL is not predominately trying to attract.

Well i think mitsubishi has spent enough on their research to know what they are doing. They've worked hard on it and everyone at mitsubishi is relying on it so they've done the best they can.

Now to wait and see what the average 40-50yo bloke thinks

althoguth the 380 might be a bit down on power, but i think thorugh its leaner weights, atm its the fastest to 100 out of big 4, so in a sense, its one of the quickest in standard form :D

I thought it was disgraceful when Ford brought out their 1700+ kg BA Falcon, and this 380 is creeping up into those figures (1650kg). So although it has more power than previous models, it seems it is no faster :redface: That seems to be a major trend with most car makers these days!

My 9 year old TE with just exhaust and CAI is faster than this brand new 380, as tested. Which is really not right, but i guess we will just have to wait and see what a manual 380 with a few breathing mods will do too :)

Oh and the Courier-Mail had a report on the 380 today, and reckoned the quickest time they could get out of any model was the manual with 15.78!! I want to slap whoever was testing! Major wheelspin apparently (ie, dude probably just not used to a powerful FWD I'd say ) :headbange

does anyone remember for how long the magna sports had an engine that was no more powerful then the rest of the range? What about the VRX? it had a measly 7kw more then the top model.. whats so great about that??? its a negligable difference.. i just dont understand why everyone is getting so worked up about it.. how about the fact that the falcon XR6 (NA model) has the same power as the base model XT? or how about how the spack commodore had the exact same engine as the base model all the way up until the latest VZ...

VRX with +7 - Tick
XR6 = XT - Tick.
Commodore - Tick. (The SV6 engine has been criticised as harsh revving).

It amazes me that so many XR6s have been sold. If you told their smiling owners that their car is the same as the base 'taxi' in power, they'd tell you that your ferked in the head... :D

++++
HERRO!


I thought it was disgraceful when Ford brought out their 1700+ kg BA Falcon, and this 380 is creeping up into those figures (1650kg). So although it has more power than previous models, it seems it is no faster :redface: That seems to be a major trend with most car makers these days!

My 9 year old TE with just exhaust and CAI is faster than this brand new 380, as tested. Which is really not right, but i guess we will just have to wait and see what a manual 380 with a few breathing mods will do too :)

Oh and the Courier-Mail had a report on the 380 today, and reckoned the quickest time they could get out of any model was the manual with 15.78!! I want to slap whoever was testing! Major wheelspin apparently (ie, dude probably just not used to a powerful FWD I'd say ) :headbange
Did you think of the extra structual intregraty this thing has?? That the main reason behind the weight of the BA as well..The ability to not chassis flex when hard cornering and towing..

No to mention all the options...:D

--Tonba
++++

Obviously the VRX and GT would be nice with more power but the fact is they dont.
MMAL certainly would've loved to but they couldn't. If the car does well, I'm certain they've got something in the works. It'll probably take at least 2 years imo, but unless the 380 bombs, we'll eventually see a Ralliart 380 with at least 190+ kw and 6-speed manual. AWD would definitely be in their minds too.

Did you think of the extra structual intregraty this thing has?? That the main reason behind the weight of the BA as well..The ability to not chassis flex when hard cornering and towing..

No to mention all the options...:D


oh yeh i know i know, but its as though the only reason we are seeing more and more power out of cars is to keep up with ballooning weights!
Usually technology makes things smaller, lighter, and more powerful and efficient...
In these times of increasing petrol prices it would be nice if more R&D could go towards builder lighter, less powerful, more fuel efficient cars, which would still have good performance :confused:

Oh and thats a general comment, not aimed at the 380. Obviously MMAL have bugger all money to spend so i wouldnt expect them to do such things with the 380 :)

I agree...
Most cars now days are land yachts with more weight and less performance.. They have to bump up the power just to keep the thing moving...

Sure the Base Model Xr6 has the same power but the suspension set up is a tad better then the Taxi edition and the BA is such a nice looking car...

Why not release the 380 with the 175kw and Make the VRX at l180kw and the GT with 192kw..
Stretch the Power range so people get value for performance and not just options.

i dont get why everyone is so concerned with power! u gotta realise these r family cars they have been designed for practical purposes not to win street drags and be as hills warrior.

family cars aint gonna sell because they have lots of power, they well sell is they r practical effiecient and look good.

i can spek from experience, cos i know 99% of cmstomers that come in ans want a car dont even care about power figures, u'd be suprised how many ppl that buy Magna AWD's and dont ask or care for manual, even though we complain no manual AWD's it makes sense they dont make any cos no one wants them, so i think its the same story here no one is gonna buy a 380 cos its gonna break power records .. my 2cents

also im sure a lightly modded 380 will come into play sooner or later, as did the TJ ralliart, mitsubishi isnt gonna reveal all its cars right asway with its base model. i mean look at the 3.5 they originally came out with 147kw's and they later got to 180kw's so its only early days yet

The fact Mitusbishi V6 3.0 litre engines from the past have produced around 200kw. It is dissapointing the new engine has not much more than 175 kw from 3.8 litres. Rest assured I am sure the next series 380 will have more power for the sports model.

I guess for the moment Mitsu are following the path of regular XR6s which has some power as base models just like Mazda6 luxury sports.. oh well.

Went to technical training for the 380 on monday

The engine management system is an awesome piece of work, we actually had a 380 GT run and idle on 1 cylinder only! , haven't seen many cars able to compensate for the loss of 5 cylinders.

Also told that with different intake tube and tune in ecu the motor was putting out around the 215kw mark - something to think about.I also think the exhaust is very restrictive due to large catalytic converters coming straight of the head as the headers/cat are all one piece, so no more extractors :cry:

Could keep going on about a heap with the car but i guess you guys will see it soon enough.

Damn you euro 3 compliance!!!

very interesting LS1UTE

While im not overly dissappoint with the power from the first series 380, I am dissappointed with the overal weight of the car. I was hopeing for something around the 1500 - 1550kg mark but guess that is to much to ask.

Something not many people are mentioning are the brakes? I find my brakes so crap on my Magna sports, im happy that VR-X / GT get the better 2 pot ( and base model for that matter )... that is more important than 15-20kw.

Went to technical training for the 380 on monday

The engine management system is an awesome piece of work, we actually had a 380 GT run and idle on 1 cylinder only! , haven't seen many cars able to compensate for the loss of 5 cylinders.

Also told that with different intake tube and tune in ecu the motor was putting out around the 215kw mark - something to think about.I also think the exhaust is very restrictive due to large catalytic converters coming straight of the head as the headers/cat are all one piece, so no more extractors :cry:

Could keep going on about a heap with the car but i guess you guys will see it soon enough.

Damn you euro 3 compliance!!!
no more extractors all you have to do is put a new cat in and extend the o2 senser wires and you can have extractors so extractors are no problems at all any exhaust shop can do this for you i had the same on a previous car and it worked fine

oh yeh i know i know, but its as though the only reason we are seeing more and more power out of cars is to keep up with ballooning weights!
Usually technology makes things smaller, lighter, and more powerful and efficient...
In these times of increasing petrol prices it would be nice if more R&D could go towards builder lighter, less powerful, more fuel efficient cars, which would still have good performance :confused:

Oh and thats a general comment, not aimed at the 380. Obviously MMAL have bugger all money to spend so i wouldnt expect them to do such things with the 380 :)

When l first read your comment about cars getting heavier, l thought, no way. I remember as a teenager cleaning my old man's cars and thinking how heavy they were. Anyway...Did some research and came up with some specs for a 1970 Falcon 500 sedan.
1362 kgs with either a 97 kw 3.3L or 116 kw 4.1L OHV engine. That works out at between
71 and 85 kw/tonne. 0 to 100 for the 4.1L = 10.7 sec. And if you're interested, the car cost $2,836. Petrol was 9.3 cents/litre and the average weekly wage was $79.60. Totally off topic but l thought it might be of interest.

no more extractors all you have to do is put a new cat in and extend the o2 senser wires and you can have extractors so extractors are no problems at all any exhaust shop can do this for you i had the same on a previous car and it worked fine

Have you pulled an exhaust off a 380, or even seen it??

as the thing runs 4 oxy sensors ( 2 each bank ) i would like to see " any exhaust shop " relocate 2 cats and the 4 sensors and actually get the thing to run properly, remember these are fine tuned vehicles. Not like a 3rd gen running a single sensor.

euro 3 requires any vehicle that has a fault that may change tailpipe emissions to log a dtc and turn on the engine check/mil lamp. As told by MMAL this will happen if sensors are relocated.

Have you pulled an exhaust off a 380, or even seen it??

as the thing runs 4 oxy sensors ( 2 each bank ) i would like to see " any exhaust shop " relocate 2 cats and the 4 sensors and actually get the thing to run properly, remember these are fine tuned vehicles. Not like a 3rd gen running a single sensor.

euro 3 requires any vehicle that has a fault that may change tailpipe emissions to log a dtc and turn on the engine check/mil lamp. As told by MMAL this will happen if sensors are relocated.

things like this hasnt stopped modders before.. and they wont stop them now! when theres a will theres a way, i guarante it wont be too long before someone comes up with a solution

things like this hasnt stopped modders before.. and they wont stop them now! when theres a will theres a way, i guarante it wont be too long before someone comes up with a solution


I agree entirely, just wont be as easy as unbolting and extending wires etc. What i meant in my original post was no more just bolting on extractors and driving off with more HP, will be interesting to see what people come up with.

NO to mivec engine.

How about V8 AWD then go racing Fords and Commos
Will see a new king of the mountain :badgrin: :badgrin:

Can't be AWD for Bathurst...

V8supercars, which i assume you are referring to, is a control catagory where ALL cars must be RWD

Don’t know if anyone has mentioned this, but the 3.8 MIVEC from the US, is still only SOHC, I don’t think the MIVEC would be boosting its power that much, The compression is slightly higher as well(10.5:1). As its been stated the Exhaust on the 380 is somewhat restrictive, due to the engine meeting Euro 3 emission standards. I believe the engine in the 380 is superior to the engine from the Galant. Its EMS is very advanced, as its been stated. Not to mention its cams and valve springs are superior.

I also think power delivery is every bit of as important as power development, I cant wait till I get the chance to drive a 380, it will put opinion, and specifications from paper, into perspective.

++++
Greetings All.


Don’t know if anyone has mentioned this, but the 3.8 MIVEC from the US, is still only SOHC, I don’t think the MIVEC would be boosting its power that much, The compression is slightly higher as well(10.5:1). As its been stated the Exhaust on the 380 is somewhat restrictive, due to the engine meeting Euro 3 emission standards. I believe the engine in the 380 is superior to the engine from the Galant. Its EMS is very advanced, as its been stated. Not to mention its cams and valve springs are superior.

I also think power delivery is every bit of as important as power development, I cant wait till I get the chance to drive a 380, it will put opinion, and specifications from paper, into perspective.
Actually, its Euro 4...

But i agree totally...the EMS is EXTRAMLY advanced, and i think that the power delivery will suprise you ALOT!

--Tonba
++++

++++
Greetings All.


Actually, its Euro 4...

But i agree totally...the EMS is EXTRAMLY advanced, and i think that the power delivery will suprise you ALOT!

--Tonba
++++

No, it's accually Euro3 at the moment, but not far off euro 4 :D

edit: they said they need minimal changes for euro 4 compliance

i thought it was euro4 aswell

can confirm 380 is not at euro 4 emmision compliance as yet, but not very far off.

question..
why spend an extra 20grand on the top 380..for what some extra features
commo and ford give extra power + features for the extra 20k in there models?

so why go for the 380?

question..
why spend an extra 20grand on the top 380..for what some extra features
commo and ford give extra power + features for the extra 20k in there models?

so why go for the 380?

tell me, how much extra power does the 6cylinder fairmont gear have over a base model XT falcon?

tell me, how much extra power does the 6cylinder fairmont gear have over a base model XT falcon?

ford offer v8's in there top mark fairlane being the same as the top 380 but they offer just the same boring stock engine
holden offer gen3's and 4's in there luxury cars
380's are behind already

you mean the gen3's in the holdens? and the ls2's in HSV's? two different entities.

you mean the gen3's in the holdens? and the ls2's in HSV's? two different entities.
who cares
all im saying is
mitsi 380 dont offer sports power with luxury
while ford & holden do there behind

ford offer v8's in there top mark fairlane being the same as the top 380 but they offer just the same boring stock engine
holden offer gen3's and 4's in there luxury cars
380's are behind already

you missed my point, people still buy the SIX CYLINDER fairmont gear at a 20k premium over the XT despite the fact it has absolutely no more power, so why is it different for mitsubishi?

you missed my point, people still buy the SIX CYLINDER fairmont gear at a 20k premium over the XT despite the fact it has absolutely no more power, so why is it different for mitsubishi?
ok i see your point but do you see mine?
its just that holden and ford have more to offer i guess i mean the 380 doesnt even have a wagon version
i think having a broader range of vehicals will attract more people

ok i see your point but do you see mine?
its just that holden and ford have more to offer i guess i mean the 380 doesnt even have a wagon version
i think having a broader range of vehicals will attract more people

yeah i do see your point, however the V8 models dont sell all that well, holden and fords best selling models by far are the 6 cylinder models, the additionaly V8 models only cater for a very small proportion of the market which, in reality, probably isnt interested in buying a mitsubishi anyway

also both the next model falcon and commodore WONT have a wagon variant, toyota and mitsubishi where just the first 2 companies to drop them, but they arent the last

yeah i guess with the price of fuel the people getting the v8 fairmonts and fairlanes will be reduced aswell..
all interesting i guess we shouldnt really comment on the 380range until they have being on the market for a while...

you missed my point, people still buy the SIX CYLINDER fairmont gear at a 20k premium over the XT despite the fact it has absolutely no more power, so why is it different for mitsubishi?

And for those of us old enough to remember... when the VN Commodore came out, with its Buick 3.8 V6, tuned as standard for max torque from idle.. the thing fairly flew off the line, impressing the bogans of the day. The VL had needed a fair whack of revs, being a Nissan straight six of only 3.0 litres... The VN had some mumbo. I remember driving a manual version that was a few years old... say in the early 90s.. it went well.

We now have the base model of all cars... Falco, Commo, Camry, 380.. with more than enuff power and torque (well, maybe not the Camry).. and buyers are more interested in the gear you can get inside the car... how 'comfy' and 'prestigous' the cabin feels. Hence why Fairmont Ghias sell, over their base model, and Commodores/Calais etc. People will pay more for a more lux car. It's all in our heads and our hearts. :)