Anyone know this for sure... Or not?

The front AWD calipers and disks bolt directly on with no modification.

rears ? never tried, but possibly the calipers will bolt on, but the disks/rear hubs are different. ask Redav, i think he modified a set of rears to fit.

The rears don't. That's all I know about it. :)

thanks guys

rears ? never tried, but possibly the calipers will bolt on, but the disks/rear hubs are different. ask Redav, i think he modified a set of rears to fit.
I fitted the rear hubs to make the disks and calipers are lined up right. Not worth the hassel. Just get the larger calipers and make sure you get the right aftermarket rotors that are better than stock to suit the AWD calipers.

I fitted the rear hubs to make the disks and calipers are lined up right. Not worth the hassel. Just get the larger calipers and make sure you get the right aftermarket rotors that are better than stock to suit the AWD calipers.

okay.... so are you confirming that AWD calipers and disks WILL fit on 2WD hubs at the rear?

okay.... so are you confirming that AWD calipers and disks WILL fit on 2WD hubs at the rear?

No, he is conforming the rear CALIPER off the AWD will fit 2WD, but the disk/hub assemblly will not without modification.

No, he is conforming the rear CALIPER off the AWD will fit 2WD, but the disk/hub assemblly will not without modification.

yes exactly - like pulling teeth isn't it!

yes exactly - like pulling teeth isn't it!

Not really, I genuinlly thought you misunderstood. Sorry for trying to help :cry:

Not really, I genuinlly thought you misunderstood. Sorry for trying to help :cry:

no what I mean by 'like pulling teeth' is that it can be excruciatingly painful getting a clear answer to technical questions around here sometimes.

The bottom line as I understand it at the moment is that the disk will fit, and the caliper will fit, but because its a different hub there may be some issues of alignment, but they are of minor concern (if there is such a thing with brakes).

The bottom line as I understand it at the moment is that the disk will fit, and the caliper will fit, but because its a different hub there may be some issues of alignment, but they are of minor concern (if there is such a thing with brakes).
I don't think that's quite right either.. for the front end of the car everything bolts up just fine. For the rear of the car, you can use the calipers from the AWD rear brakes, but leave the disks and hubs where you found them. Instead go out and buy some shiny new rear disks to suit your new calipers.

I have long pliers - does anyone want any teeth pulled out... :D

U might wanna PM Redav and ask him some details - I remember he had fair bit of hassle with the matter some months ago.


no what I mean by 'like pulling teeth' is that it can be excruciatingly painful getting a clear answer to technical questions around here sometimes.

The bottom line as I understand it at the moment is that the disk will fit, and the caliper will fit, but because its a different hub there may be some issues of alignment, but they are of minor concern (if there is such a thing with brakes).

I don't think that's quite right either.. for the front end of the car everything bolts up just fine. For the rear of the car, you can use the calipers from the AWD rear brakes, but leave the disks and hubs where you found them. Instead go out and buy some shiny new rear disks to suit your new calipers.

yeah I'm getting a headache now on this but the first thing seems to be get some calipers off a wrecker anyway, full set, get them rebuilt.... etc. I wouldn't bother with disks from a wrecker, will just put aftermarket whatevers when we get to that stage. I think I'll leave all this till next year though.

Sorry lads, not too clear. In a foreign country with limited net time.

For me to fit the AWD calipers and rotors I needed the hub assembly off the car and some end caps to hold the bearings together as the driveshaft is no longer fitted. Third time lucky. I ended up taking them off after 6 months because the hubs stiffened and put an annoying noise through the cabin at varying speeds. The handbrake setup changes and sucks so I was glad to go back.

I "think" that the AWD calipers will match some aftermarket EBC or RDA rotors on the 2WD hubs if they are designed for the non AWD models. This is a long shot. Im yet to conform this and I plan to as I really want to be using these calipers. The main difference I think I could see is a difference in offset for the rotor alone which could explain why the calipers and rotors didnt line up on my original hubs.

Clearer?

Sorry lads, not too clear. In a foreign country with limited net time.

For me to fit the AWD calipers and rotors I needed the hub assembly off the car and some end caps to hold the bearings together as the driveshaft is no longer fitted. Third time lucky. I ended up taking them off after 6 months because the hubs stiffened and put an annoying noise through the cabin at varying speeds. The handbrake setup changes and sucks so I was glad to go back.

I "think" that the AWD calipers will match some aftermarket EBC or RDA rotors on the 2WD hubs if they are designed for the non AWD models. This is a long shot. Im yet to conform this and I plan to as I really want to be using these calipers. The main difference I think I could see is a difference in offset for the rotor alone which could explain why the calipers and rotors didnt line up on my original hubs.

Clearer?

Perfect - Thanks!

I fitted the AWD rear rotors and calipers to my car 2 yrs ago and as i explained to redav 2 months ago, what i did was engineer up a 3.7mm spacer that fits over the wheel hub/flange BUT behind the disc rotor this inturn centres the rotor in the middle of the caliper.

This is due to the AWD rotor having a higher hat height. AWD = 60.2mm and standard
magna = 56.5mm

This was approved as the spacer is held captive by the rotor and cos i made the spacer a interferance fit on to the wheel hub, so basically once its on its on for good but the disc is still easily removed

http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/5377/image0077eh.th.jpg (http://img418.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image0077eh.jpg)

http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/4020/image0065ok.th.jpg (http://img418.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image0065ok.jpg)

http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/4690/image0027tn.th.jpg (http://img418.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image0027tn.jpg)

Apologies for bad picture quality but theses pics were taken with my camera phone and the spacer in the pictures was my first protoype that i made.

I fitted the AWD rear rotors and calipers to my car 2 yrs ago and as i explained to redav 2 months, what i did was engineer up a 3.7mm spacer that fits over the wheel hub/flange BUT behind the disc rotor this inturn centres the rotor in the middle of the caliper.

This is due to the AWD rotor having a higher hat height. AWD = 60.2mm and standard
magna = 56.5mm

This was approved as the spacer is held captive by the rotor and cos i made the spacer a interferance fit on to the wheel hub, so basically once its on its on for good but the disc is still easily removed

http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/5377/image0077eh.th.jpg (http://img418.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image0077eh.jpg)

http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/4020/image0065ok.th.jpg (http://img418.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image0065ok.jpg)

http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/4690/image0027tn.th.jpg (http://img418.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image0027tn.jpg)

Apologies for bad picture quality but theses pics were taken with my camera phone and the spacer in the pictures was my first protoype that i made.

any chance you'd like to make and sell another set of those spacers?!

I fitted the AWD rear rotors and calipers to my car 2 yrs ago and as i explained to redav 2 months ago, what i did was engineer up a 3.7mm spacer that fits over the wheel hub/flange BUT behind the disc rotor this inturn centres the rotor in the middle of the caliper.
Thanks, Jason. Im yet to try your solution which I think is on the money and your car proves it works. Unfortuntely me being a draftsman means I can draw this stuff on paper but I cant machine it :cry:

I think it's high time this thread was brought back to life.

I've recently joined the club of "AMC///I have a set of AWD rear brake calipers, but don't know what to do to fit them to my car" club :bowrofl:

After days of firing PM's back and forth between a few people and getting less than helpful responses from certain mitsubishi dealerships, I figured it was time to try out the AMC collective brains trust :D

Here's what we know in relation to the rear brake hardware of an AWD vs FWD:
* AWD and Ralliart rear brake Calipers apparently have the same part number according to mitsubishi
* AWD and Ralliart rear brake rotors apparently have different part numbers according to mitsubishi
* Offset (or height) of AWD rear rotors = 60.2mm | Offset of 2WD rear rotors = 56.5mm | Offset of Ralliart rear rotors is yet to be determined
* Jason has successfully fitted AWD rear calipers and AWD spec rear rotors to his car using a spacer between the Hub and the Rotor with a thickness identical to the difference in height between the AWD and 2WD rear rotors (3.7mm)
* RPW have recently announced that they can now offer "ralliart spec" rear brake upgrades which bolt on with no fitment issues.
* Neither RDA or DBA have an aftermarket replacement rotor listed for the "Ralliart Magna"

As far as I see it, that leaves us with the following possible outcomes:
* There is a brake rotor out there which has the same specs as the AWD rotor, but with the same (or very similar) height as the 2WD rear rotor
* There is a difference in the part which the caliper mounts to (something to do with the handbrake mechinism if I'm not mistaken) between the Ralliart and AWD magna which comphensates for the 3.7mm difference

The most interesting thing I have discovered is that there is a 284mm ventilated rear rotor which was fitted to the rear of the 3000GT between 10/92 and 5/95. It has a hat height of 52.8mm (which is 3.7mm less than that of the standard 2WD rear rotor :confused: ). If this product will fit a 2WD hub / AWD caliper combo - then we might finally be onto something, because both DBA and RDA list an aftermarket replacement for this rotor!!!!

I wonder if Legnum and Gallant's might have similar spec brakes to Diamante's / Magna's or GTO's?

The most interesting thing I have discovered is that there is a 284mm ventilated rear rotor which was fitted to the rear of the 3000GT between 10/92 and 5/95. It has a hat height of 52.8mm (which is 3.7mm less than that of the standard 2WD rear rotor :confused: ). If this product will fit a 2WD hub / AWD caliper combo - then we might finally be onto something, because both DBA and RDA list an aftermarket replacement for this rotor!!!!

The problem with the 3000GT rotor is it will be the exact opposite of the AWD rotor. I made the 3.7mm spacer to move the rotor out to the centre of the caliper (it was sitting completely on the rear pad of the caliper and the caliper wouldnt slid over the rotor and bolt up. The 3000GT would be the complete opposite, it would sit too far on to the front pad of the caliper and wouldnt bolt up.

Hope that explains what im trying to say clearly. :)

One thing, can you guys get someone to pull off there ralliarts rear rotor and measure the hat height of it? (that is the height of the rotor laying flat from the bottom of it where the pads run to the top of it where the wheel mates up to it.) This will then tell if they have a 56.5mm or 60.2mm hat height.

The problem with the 3000GT rotor is it will be the exact opposite of the AWD rotor. I made the 3.7mm spacer to move the rotor out to the centre of the caliper (it was sitting completely on the rear pad of the caliper and the caliper wouldnt slid over the rotor and bolt up. The 3000GT would be the complete opposite, it would sit too far on to the front pad of the caliper and wouldnt bolt up.

Hope that explains what im trying to say clearly. :)

One thing, can you guys get someone to pull off there ralliarts rear rotor and measure the hat height of it? (that is the height of the rotor laying flat from the bottom of it where the pads run to the top of it where the wheel mates up to it.) This will then tell if they have a 56.5mm or 60.2mm hat height.

Hey Jason, yeah - I have to admit it took me a while to understand the roll your spacer played in the whole setup (hence why last night I was looking for a rotor with an offset of > 60.5mm lol ).

I've got a new theory - based on the information I've uncovered regarding the 3000GT rotor which has an offset of 3.7mm less than that of the 2WD magna.......... I'm wondering if the calipers off the JF 3000GT (-3.7mm offset rotors) would fit perfectly with the AWD rotors (+3.7mm offset rotors)........ perhaps the secret is that the Ralliart shared the same calipers as the JF 3000GT.

Unfortunately I'm having trouble finding any detailed specs regarding the JF 3000GT, all I know about the rear brakes are the rotor specs - can't even confirm wether or not they use single or twin spot calipers on the rear.

Unfortunately I'm having trouble finding any detailed specs regarding the JF 3000GT, all I know about the rear brakes are the rotor specs - can't even confirm wether or not they use single or twin spot calipers on the rear.
Don't know how useful they are but you could try the Stealth forums or the Eclipse 3G forums in the US.

The best person to answer all the brake questions would have been roger carroll from MMAL, he was the braking system R&D guru but unfortunatly he has left the position.

He was the one who trialed and pushed for brembos to be fitted to the ralliarts but was knocked back (due to money constraints), he also gave me a heads up on some other front brake caliper options to fit a 294mm rotor equipped magna (which are cheapish :) ).

The best person to answer all the brake questions would have been roger carroll from MMAL, he was the braking system R&D guru but unfortunatly he has left the position.

He was the one who trialed and pushed for brembos to be fitted to the ralliarts but was knocked back (due to money constraints), he also gave me a heads up on some other front brake caliper options to fit a 294mm rotor equipped magna (which are cheapish :) ).

So you gonna ask him for us :)

Pleeeeaaaaaasssee :cool:

The best person to answer all the brake questions would have been roger carroll from MMAL, he was the braking system R&D guru but unfortunatly he has left the position.
:(


He was the one who trialed and pushed for brembos to be fitted to the ralliarts but was knocked back (due to money constraints),
:cry:

We live in a bogan country. Why don't these dumb accountants and dumb marketing people realise that there's plenty of people out here who will buy this stuff? :nuts:

So you gonna ask him for us :)

Pleeeeaaaaaasssee :cool:

I dont have his outside contact number. I only had his phone number for work when i was there. I'll ask some others if they know where he is working now.

One thing, can you guys get someone to pull off there ralliarts rear rotor and measure the hat height of it? (that is the height of the rotor laying flat from the bottom of it where the pads run to the top of it where the wheel mates up to it.) This will then tell if they have a 56.5mm or 60.2mm hat height.

got a full set of ralliart calipers and rotors off car so should be able to measure it tommorow. might save someone ripping it off there car.

got a full set of ralliart calipers and rotors off car so should be able to measure it tommorow. might save someone ripping it off there car.


Measure the rotor hat height (or original height), if u dont know what that is refer to the DBA website, there rotor catalogue explains rotor dimensions, its dimension "B" on there chart.

got a full set of ralliart calipers and rotors off car so should be able to measure it tommorow. might save someone ripping it off there car.

Wooo Hoooo - that'd be great.

This might save you a trip to the DBA website. The dimension we are interested in is "B".
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/2112/brakedimensions5ra.jpg

However I've got a sneaking suspsicion that you will come up with the same height as we know the "AWD" rotors have. I just can't stop thinking that the difference is in the calipers :doubt: .

PS - does anyone know if the MMAL parts finder lists parts / part numbers from non domestic models??? If they do - hopefully I can compare the caliper part number from the Ralliart to the JF 3000GT....... got a hunch they are the same.

PS - does anyone know if the MMAL parts finder lists parts / part numbers from non domestic models??? If they do - hopefully I can compare the caliper part number from the Ralliart to the JF 3000GT....... got a hunch they are the same.
If anything the difference would be in the hub. The calipers share the same part number between the Ralliart and AWD so the caliper could be the same but the bracketing to the hub could adjust the offset to suit.

If anything the difference would be in the hub. The calipers share the same part number between the Ralliart and AWD so the caliper could be the same but the bracketing to the hub could adjust the offset to suit.

Ahhhhhh - forgot about that.

Measure the rotor hat height (or original height), if u dont know what that is refer to the DBA website, there rotor catalogue explains rotor dimensions, its dimension "B" on there chart.

OK got rotor in front of me and height is 56.5mm

OK got rotor in front of me and height is 56.5mm

Well thats it then............

Bad news for ralliart owners who want to replace their rear rotors with aftermarket replacements........... 'cause no one makes aftermarket 284MM rotors with that height :rant: :angry: :headbange

Thanks anyway mate :D

Well thats it then............

Bad news for ralliart owners who want to replace their rear rotors with aftermarket replacements........... 'cause no one makes aftermarket 284MM rotors with that height :rant: :angry: :headbange

Thanks anyway mate :D

is that right? damn wanted slotted ones all round :rant:

Bad news for ralliart owners who want to replace their rear rotors with aftermarket replacements........... 'cause no one makes aftermarket 284MM rotors with that height :rant: :angry: :headbange
You could always downgrade to the stupid AWD hubs :bowrofl:

is that right? damn wanted slotted ones all round :rant:

Well thats based on personally going thru 120 pages of the DBA product catalogue, and there is no rotor for any model car which is 284x56.5 ventilated. RDA don't have an online catalogue, but I rang them 2 days ago and got the sales rep to check if they had any listing for those dimensions and they didn't have one either.

But hang on....... I just had an idea. I've got a feeling MMAL get their braking hardware from PBR, so I'll chase up that avenue today.


You could always downgrade to the stupid AWD hubs :bowrofl:

I'd probably leave my crappy 2wd rotors on the car before I went thru all that hassle lol :D

:(


:cry:

We live in a bogan country. Why don't these dumb accountants and dumb marketing people realise that there's plenty of people out here who will buy this stuff? :nuts:

How expensive can Brembos be? They show up on Falcons, Commodore HSVs, and many other vehicles...

....But hang on....... I just had an idea. I've got a feeling MMAL get their braking hardware from PBR, so I'll chase up that avenue today.

......


One thing that hasn't changed in many years... ALL Aussie car manufacturers get the braking hardware from PBR, sometimes RDA. as OEM.

How expensive can Brembos be? They show up on Falcons, Commodore HSVs, and many other vehicles...
Up to and including 7 grand. The big Brembos found on the high end HSV's are around 7 grand. The Brembos from the Evo's are around 3 - 4 grand.

Sif bother to upgrade the rear brakes anyway. They're basically useless. (read: upgrade fronts first and see the difference) Upgrade to the slotted/grooved 294mm at the front first with some decent pads and see the marked improvement before spending more money on the rear.

Just my opinion.

How expensive can Brembos be? They show up on Falcons, Commodore HSVs, and many other vehicles...

Up to and including 7 grand. The big Brembos found on the high end HSV's are around 7 grand. The Brembos from the Evo's are around 3 - 4 grand.
Depends on who is selling them. I know someone who picked some up for $400ish front and read.


Sif bother to upgrade the rear brakes anyway. They're basically useless. (read: upgrade fronts first and see the difference) Upgrade to the slotted/grooved 294mm at the front first with some decent pads and see the marked improvement before spending more money on the rear.
Yeah, for our cars I'd agree with this. I didn't notice a difference when I upgraded mine apart from the asthetics. If you were circuit racing then small differences are big differences.

Sif bother to upgrade the rear brakes anyway. They're basically useless. (read: upgrade fronts first and see the difference) Upgrade to the slotted/grooved 294mm at the front first with some decent pads and see the marked improvement before spending more money on the rear.

Just my opinion.

Some ppl just like to do things for the sake of doing them :D .

Whether or not I eventually upgrade the rear brakes is irrelevant at this stage. I just would like to know exactly what is involved in actually doing it on a 2WD magna. and yes, I'm persistent :cool:

Some ppl just like to do things for the sake of doing them :D .
I just want to do it to get closure on a two year old project :bowrofl: I mean I had them fitted then I removed them again :rant:


Wether or not I eventually upgrade the rear brakes is up in the air. I just would like to know exactly what is involved in actually doing it on a 2WD magna. and yes, I'm persistent :cool:
Actually, even though using the AWD hubs is a pain, it does work and they are worth $125 new from MMAL. Even though using them isn't anywhere near as good as the original setup, if you park on level ground, you won't have an issue :bowrofl:

Well thats based on personally going thru 120 pages of the DBA product catalogue, and there is no rotor for any model car which is 284x56.5 ventilated. RDA don't have an online catalogue, but I rang them 2 days ago and got the sales rep to check if they had any listing for those dimensions and they didn't have one either.

But hang on....... I just had an idea. I've got a feeling MMAL get their braking hardware from PBR, so I'll chase up that avenue today.


You are right about PBR suppling MMAL there brake hardware BUT it was only for the standard alloy single piston front caliper and the small alloy rear calipers, that standard magnas used.

The ralliart/AWD calipers were from japan.

You are right about PBR suppling MMAL there brake hardware BUT it was only for the standard alloy single piston front caliper and the small alloy rear calipers, that standard magnas used.

The ralliart/AWD calipers were from japan.

Yeah but it's the rotors I'm interested in, now that I know they are the difference. So do PBR do rotors at all?? or would MMAL have got the Ralliart rotors from Japan as well??

Either way, I've sent them an email enquiring........ worst that can happen is they can't help me.

Either way, I've sent them an email enquiring........ worst that can happen is they can't help me.
:bowrofl: I'm glad you're prepared for that outcome. I had three seperate conversations with techs there. One was helpful, one said it wouldn't work, one didn't know how to chech. Generally speaking they're not geared to handle these sort of requestes.

Yeah but it's the rotors I'm interested in, now that I know they are the difference. So do PBR do rotors at all?? or would MMAL have got the Ralliart rotors from Japan as well??

Either way, I've sent them an email enquiring........ worst that can happen is they can't help me.

The ralliart/AWD rotors came from japan as well, the were meant to be of "higher" quality than the standard warping aussie made magna rotors

It was written about during the ralliarts release that there brakes were "japanese made high quality" items

:bowrofl: I'm glad you're prepared for that outcome. I had three seperate conversations with techs there. One was helpful, one said it wouldn't work, one didn't know how to chech. Generally speaking they're not geared to handle these sort of requestes.

I've been modding my Magnas for a couple of years now....... of course I'm prepared for that outcome :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl:

The best person to answer all the brake questions would have been roger carroll from MMAL, he was the braking system R&D guru but unfortunatly he has left the position.

He was the one who trialed and pushed for brembos to be fitted to the ralliarts but was knocked back (due to money constraints), he also gave me a heads up on some other front brake caliper options to fit a 294mm rotor equipped magna (which are cheapish :) ).

any chance of tell me/us what they are??:D

any chance of tell me/us what they are??:D
Think some other manufacturer starting with M from a car that has a performance history. ;)

Reply from PBR (no surprises here):


Sorry about the delay Michael but unfortunately PBR cannot assist with your enquiry either.

lol lol

Reply from PBR (no surprises here):


lol lol

Well there was a joke at work about what PBR stands for..... Poor Brake Response lol

Well thats it then............

Bad news for ralliart owners who want to replace their rear rotors with aftermarket replacements........... 'cause no one makes aftermarket 284MM rotors with that height :rant: :angry: :headbange

Thanks anyway mate :D

does that mean if u get AWD calipers and a set of ralliart rear discs it should just bolt up?

does that mean if u get AWD calipers and a set of ralliart rear discs it should just bolt up?

Correct.

AWD and Ralliart Calipers are the same, it's the rotors which are different.

So just a cap on this thread......
Front:AWD rotors and calipers
Rear:Ralliart rotors and AWD calipers
is that right?

So just a cap on this thread......
Front:AWD rotors and calipers
Rear:Ralliart rotors and AWD calipers
is that right?
Front AWD or Ralliart rotors and calipers

Rear Ralliart rotors and AWD calipers - we think. Don't know if there's an offset difference with the hubs. Probably not.

Wooo Hoooo - that'd be great.

However I've got a sneaking suspsicion that you will come up with the same height as we know the "AWD" rotors have. I just can't stop thinking that the difference is in the calipers :doubt:

got a ralliart disk and AWD disk here side by side and the AWD is definatly taller in the hat height. will check out the calipers next and then trial fit on an exec when i get time.

got a ralliart disk and AWD disk here side by side and the AWD is definatly taller in the hat height. will check out the calipers next and then trial fit on an exec when i get time.
Awesome. Thanks! Can chance you can see if there appears to be a difference with the hub? Wouldn't mind dims too.

Awesome. Thanks! Can chance you can see if there appears to be a difference with the hub? Wouldn't mind dims too.

whats left of the Ralliarts now scrap metal :rant: and dont want to pull mine apart cause im a lawyer not a mechanic lol what i can do is take pics of the different brakes (AWD & Ralliart) there off the car. but after exams are over.

Has there been any progress on this?

lol perfect timing having a day off. will do right now! post what u want to know. ill grab the calipers there not here. back soon.

lol perfect timing having a day off. will do right now! post what u want to know. ill grab the calipers there not here. back soon.

Basically, I think we need to know the difference in offset (if there is one between AWD caliper and ralliart caliper.

Jason VRX used the awd caliper/rotor combo and fitted the spacer plate to align the awd rotor on a 2wd hub.

But if there is no difference between the caliper support brackets then we are set. ie. awd calipers with ralliart spec rotor. But something tells me there will be a difference.

i started a new thread cause this ones getting crowded.

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37998