No All Wheel Drive on the 380???.....very disappointing. Mitsubishi was on the right track with AWD, its just their previous 'French' worldwide designer killed its chances with his styling updates, especially those brilliant headlights....hmmm!!!! Would have been very interesting to see what the Australian styled version of the TL Magna wold have looked like, not to mention how it would have sold, compared to the very poor results it ended up with! Imagine a 380 VRX/GT with AWD, and even a modest upgrade to 190kw over the base 175kw's......maybe then XR6/8 and SS owners would be tempted.......
No extra power for the VRX and GT, this could be the fatal blow.....regardless of whether they are keeping this for the series 2 model, it may all be too late. What led Ford's recovery from the disastrous AU Falcon sales results. It was the performance model's XR6 turbo, and XR8. Regardless of whether they were the volume sellers, they were what prompted the sales receovery. Its all about image. No one is going to trade their XR6/8 or SS for a model that promises sport, but is slower then a base model. And unfortunately that slower VRX/GT is not the image Mitsubishi needs.
Why promise a 'sporty' drive, and then deliver a VRX and GT without AWD, and with the same power as a base model. Mitsubishi is releasing a car now, that will very shortly be overtaken by its competitors. Falcon, Commodore, and Camry new models or significant updates are just around the corner. A new car in 2005 with no curtain airbags, no awd, no 6 speed manual, and the same power production for all models. Quote....'Engineered for a solid 4 star ancap crash rating'.....when others are already getting 5, and were 2 years ago???
I was hoping this would be the model that finally delivered. Imagine what could of been. I have heard talk that Mitsubishi needs the sales before it can even think about more power, or bringing back AWD. Unfortunately I can't see those sales coming.....you have to have image. Imagine real alternatives to the XR8 and SS........what a pity.
Have always had a soft spot for Magna's, and was hoping for the same with the 380. :cry:

I know what you mean about the AWD. When Mitsubishi brought out the AWD platform during the TJ series, they were 5 years too late, at that stage the model had already taken its age toll.

It's a pity the AWD has been scrapped, can't really blame it on MMAL, there just wasn't enough funds available in the end, I would probably also say they ran out of time to even redesign the Galant base to fit the AWD drivetrain.

But the bright side, the 380 is Euro 3 (I think it was 3) compliant, which all new cars will need to be compliant as well which I think begins next year, so we'll see how the Ford and Holden counterparts de-tune their engines for this requirement.

The Key to the 380's Sucess is appealing to those Who bought a 2nd Gen or Early 3Rd Gen and are now looking to upgrade..... I do have the feeling it is going to fail..

Not offering more Power is going to be the Down fall or it could mean that Some one out there is going to need to produce a Low cost aftermarket tuning kit for the VRX/GT..
...

the thing everyone is forgetting is that mitsubishi are only targetting 30,000 sales pa, the magna (pre TL) use to easily pass that mark every single year, and it never had a SS, XR6T or XR8 competitor. Yes the 380 is likely to miss out on the sports sedan market, but the real target for mitsubishi is NOT the sports sedan market, its the family car market, of which 99% of buyers coudlnt give a flying stuff about how much power its got. People need to realise that just because it lacks some things you like, doesnt mean it wont reach its sales targets! last time i checked fleet managers (who will make up around 70% of the cars sales) dont give a flying fook about AWD and a high powered engine

the thing everyone is forgetting is that mitsubishi are only targetting 30,000 sales pa, the magna (pre TL) use to easily pass that mark every single year, and it never had a SS, XR6T or XR8 competitor. Yes the 380 is likely to miss out on the sports sedan market, but the real target for mitsubishi is NOT the sports sedan market, its the family car market, of which 99% of buyers coudlnt give a flying stuff about how much power its got. People need to realise that just because it lacks some things you like, doesnt mean it wont reach its sales targets! last time i checked fleet managers (who will make up around 70% of the cars sales) dont give a flying fook about AWD and a high powered engine

30,000 per year is break even point, they would be aiming to make a profit (even if small) to please MMC bosses and prove MMAL is a good investment. :D

Yes they are only targeting 30,000 sales but I definately agree that a profit is what all car makers want. Sure the fleet market is where they aim their base models, but you have to have the character building models to insure success. Subaru and WRX? Sure WRX is not the biggest seller in their lineup, but the image flows down to the lower spec models. Ford and Holden seem to believe that its worth bothering with XR6, XR8 and SS? Why is Toyota looking at a real sports model for its next series camry. If it was all about fleet markets then we'd all be driving around in veeery basis cars, soulless cars. Ask Mazda and Nissan if this it the way to go? and then look at their current releases.
Lets look back at Ford with their disastrous AU Falcon. The BA was a make or break model. Did they bring out a basic model aimed squarely at the fleet market? No they used XR6 turbo and XR8 to re-build their image. And the sales flowed on as a result............
Image is what sells, and I just hope Mitsubishi hasn't found that cardigan again.

Far enough that’s your opinion but I have some questions, and some points I would like to make.

1) Have you driven the 380 ?. Mitsubishi have tuned the 380 for agility, and Id rather have a smooth driving FWD, then one with slightly more power that gets axel tramp, and breaks traction, wildly.

2) Mitsubishi are not targeting the 380 GT at the SS, XR8, and XR6T, I agree they should bring a model with a turbo or SC out, but they needed to show MMC, that they could develop, a family car, that has a chance of selling. Not a car to satisfy the smaller sector of "sports car" buyers. They need to sell there base models first.

3) It wont be too late, Mitsubishi are trying to Entice and Excite buyers, with an overall package that fits nicely, and that has the power, luxury, agility, and style that make people want to buy it, the 380 does this, they are also targeting middle aged men, who drive 4wd, into buying a car, I think that’s going to work.

4) Falcon and Commodore fans, that love V8's and all the power and sound it provides, are still going to by them no matter what Mitsubishi do, so Mitsubishi have cleverly aimed the 380 at a broader spectrum of buyers.

5) You will get your 200 KW atw, out of the 380, the 380 runs 3 cats, and is almost Euro4, barely off it in fact. Also the air intake is very restrictive. Modify these 2 components, and you will have some very nice gains. There is also plenty of room for an AWD system in the 380, So if MMAL get some more research dollars, and put some effort in, thy will make an AWD, you cant just chuck in an AWD system into a car, it must be correctly researched and engineered, so the vehicle wont end up driving like crap, and that costs $$$$$.

Id rather have a balanced package, that is all rounder, with potential, then a car with a powerful engine, but crap handling, poor interior, and no style.

[QUOTE=Aspec]Far enough that’s your opinion but I have some questions, and some points I would like to make.

1) Have you driven the 380 ?. Mitsubishi have tuned the 380 for agility, and Id rather have a smooth driving FWD, then one with slightly more power that gets axel tramp, and breaks traction, wildly.

2) Mitsubishi are not targeting the 380 GT at the SS, XR8, and XR6T, I agree they should bring a model with a turbo or SC out, but they needed to show MMC, that they could develop, a family car, that has a chance of selling. Not a car to satisfy the smaller sector of "sports car" buyers. They need to sell there base models first.

3) It wont be too late, Mitsubishi are trying to Entice and Excite buyers, with an overall package that fits nicely, and that has the power, luxury, agility, and style that make people want to buy it, the 380 does this, they are also targeting middle aged men, who drive 4wd, into buying a car, I think that’s going to work.

4) Falcon and Commodore fans, that love V8's and all the power and sound it provides, are still going to by them no matter what Mitsubishi do, so Mitsubishi have cleverly aimed the 380 at a broader spectrum of buyers.

5) You will get your 200 KW atw, out of the 380, the 380 runs 3 cats, and is almost Euro4, barely off it in fact. Also the air intake is very restrictive. Modify these 2 components, and you will have some very nice gains. There is also plenty of room for an AWD system in the 380, So if MMAL get some more research dollars, and put some effort in, thy will make an AWD, you cant just chuck in an AWD system into a car, it must be correctly researched and engineered, so the vehicle wont end up driving like crap, and that costs $$$$$.


Yes true to a degree, but.....


Does everyone remember that Ford was in the same deal with the BA Falcon.
They had to show Ford US they could sell a family car, or it was imported Taurus's for us.
But Ford was smart. They new that image was a seller. They put the money into the niche market XR6 Turbo, and XR8 cause they new it would sell base BA's. They pumped money into Motor sport where they had previously taken it out. Ask Ford if they regret pulling the low selling V8 model Falcon's from their sales lineup in the 80's?
Mitsubishi had its trumps over Falcon, Camry, and Commodore.
ALL WHEEL DRIVE, and the pushing of the Ralliart Sports name. They just need to learn about marketing.
We are all Magna/380 fan's. And we all want it to sell. I hope it does. Im just worried about the image Mitsubishi is promoting. Better built, better backed? Image is what sells!

Yes true to a degree, but.....


Does everyone remember that Ford was in the same deal with the BA Falcon.
They had to show Ford US they could sell a family car, or it was imported Taurus's for us.
But Ford was smart. They new that image was a seller. They put the money into the niche market XR6 Turbo, and XR8 cause they new it would sell base BA's. They pumped money into Motor sport where they had previously taken it out. Ask Ford if they regret pulling the low selling V8 model Falcon's from their sales lineup in the 80's?
Mitsubishi had its trumps over Falcon, Camry, and Commodore.
ALL WHEEL DRIVE, and the pushing of the Ralliart Sports name. They just need to learn about marketing.
We are all Magna/380 fan's. And we all want it to sell. I hope it does. Im just worried about the image Mitsubishi is promoting. Better built, better backed? Image is what sells!

I know what your saying, but the fact of the matter is Ford had a reputation in the V8 supercar tournament before the BA, and also was the ford motor car company as a whole suffering from large financial loses , like MMC. I see lots and lots and lots of STANDARD BA falcons driving around, because of the overall package, and the styling, I also see lots of non turbo XR6's driving around.

The 380 base model is THE most important vehicle MMAL has at the moment, it must sell, and MMAL couldn’t cash in on its rallying heritage, due to funds, were lucky to even see the 380 as a reality, many thought MMAL would go down the toilet after the TL, and here we are today talking about MMAL‘s next gen family sedan, many think the 380 will flop, but lets wait to years, and see were we are sitting.

OK keep it nice guys - this post has been reported and I have removed a couple of posts.

Please keep it nice or I will lock it.

I know what your saying, but the fact of the matter is Ford had a reputation in the V8 supercar tournament before the BA, and also was the ford motor car company as a whole suffering from large financial loses , like MMC. I see lots and lots and lots of STANDARD BA falcons driving around, because of the overall package, and the styling, I also see lots of non turbo XR6's driving around.

The 380 base model is THE most important vehicle MMAL has at the moment, it must sell, and MMAL couldn’t cash in on its rallying heritage, due to funds, were lucky to even see the 380 as a reality, many thought MMAL would go down the toilet after the TL, and here we are today talking about MMAL‘s next gen family sedan, many think the 380 will flop, but lets wait to years, and see were we are sitting.

I've still got faith that Mitsubishi has something up its sleeve. You don't want to convey an image of a brand about to exit the market, look what that already did to Magna sales, as well as lancer etc.
Mitsubishi's losses worldwide weren't caused by too many niche models. In fact those Niche models like Lancer evo have probably kept it afloat. Look how many evo lancer lookalikes there are out there from the past!! Mitsubishi Finance in the US can take a big heap of the blame for the current problems with Mitsubishi.
Lets hope 380 sells. No one wants to see it fail. The exit of one of the big four from the Australian car market would be disastrous for everyone.

What got Ford going with the BA was not the "Sports models" but the massive generational engine change from the AU ....the AU donk looked awful there was no sophistication to this engine it was Aussie engineering at it's most pathetic and was nearly 10 years behind any O/S manufacturers. The BA donk was another matter...now it's only 3 years behind.

What Joe Public wants in a car at this moment in time is fuel economy....10/l or better

One thing to consider on the 380 is that one of the reasons for the lower power figure than we all wanted is because of the emmision controls. This vehicle is the first mitsubishi to run full California Emmision Control systems.

This measn the vehicle is running 3 catalyctic converters one off each header and a third one further down the car.

This is as you can imagine a great restriction in power and I have spoken with some people who say without this restriction, the negine is good for an immediet 200kw.

I havn't seen it in the flesh yet but thats only a week away from some details seraching.

But if this is true on the cats - you can't just remove them easily and put on a set of normal headers as it will come up with a CEL light and a limp home mode setup like the USA cars.

We have been waiting for these more stringent emmision controls to hit us - and this is the start of it. Our days of free horsepower gains without many computer issues in the mitsubishi range are going to start disapearing. Much more research into mods are going to be required.

The use of 3 cats involves the use of four oxygen sensors, one before and after each cat converter to measure variances in emmisions. Thankfully with this being a commen setup in the USA, there should be some easy options on bypassing this setup to convert back to a single cat setup and long tube length headers, but the days of a $350.00 pacemaker set are definitly not going to be an option on these cars I don't beleive. What will be interesting to see if the likes of pacemaker etc even bother manafacturing components for the new 380. I can definitly see options of flex pipe kits only being a popular choice retaining the use of the stock cat converters.

Anyway purely hypothetical at this point, but over the next month I am going to be playing with one of these and testing stuff - so hopefully within 2 months should have the first range of products available for it for those who decide to upgrade.

BUt this at least answers one of our questions on the reduction of power anyway.

Anyway purely hypothetical at this point, but over the next month I am going to be playing with one of these and testing stuff - so hopefully within 2 months should have the first range of products available for it for those who decide to upgrade.

BUt this at least answers one of our questions on the reduction of power anyway.

shut up now and get back to work.... lol lol
good work dave..