Firstly I don't know too much about the 380 and even less about the VRX and GT models. But from reading this thread what I have gleaned is that the sports models (VRX and GT) will have no power increases over the base model. So the perfomance will be identical? Someone tell me that I'm wrong. How on earth are they supposed to target people with sports models which don't outperform the base model. Lets just assume though they are more powerful. Firstly to be recognised as genuine sports car they are going to have to have 14 sec 1/4 times, sub 7sec 0 - 100 times and top speed of 230+. Because for 50K for the GT, its got some stiff competition Who on earth is going to choose a 380GT over a WRX Sti, EVO IX, Liberty GT, XR6T, SS, 2nd hand 350Z, RX8... the list goes on. And this is assuming that the 380GT is a quick car. Now I'm the first person to want Mitsubishi to suceed, so I'm not just criticising them for the hell of it. I just don't understand their marketing techniques. This is directed more at the sports models, VRX and GT. I won't carry on because I'd like someone to confirm or refute the fact that the VRX and GT will have the same performance as the base model.

The GT will be slower than the base model, because of all it's luxo weight, the GT isnt a "sports car" it's a luxo tourer. The vrx will most likely be the same performance in a straight line as the base model but when it comes to twisties if it's anything like a magna it'll run away and hide. By the by the manuals have a 4.1 diff and the autos have a 3.3 diff, so like magnas the manuals are gonna spank the autos soooo hard it's not funny, I get the feeling given time theres gonne be some quick manual 380's around :P

Matthius

the vrx and GT arent by any means a true sports car.. they are a freakin family car with a few "sporting" extras.. and you say that these wont sell.. tell me, do ford not sell ANY XR6's?? i mean why would they, they have the same power as the XT's... therefore they wouldnt generate ANY interest... WRONG!! there are bloody millions of them about

Who said it was a sports car?

The XR6 isn't exactly faster than the base Falcon, but how many of those do you see on the roads?

The GT has more luxury than any of those cars you listed, but yes it will probably have trouble against the XR6T and SS.

A $20k Skyline is faster than a lot of cars at the same price so why the heck do people bother buying other cars?

A $50k BMW is slower than lots of cars at the same price too, why the heck do people bother with it?

I know what you're saying, though. It'd be very nice if the VRX and GT had some power upgrades, but really I just think the VRX needs more aggressive wheels. I don't think Mitsubishi will have nearly as much trouble as you think.

A $20k Skyline is faster than a lot of cars at the same price so why the heck do people bother buying other cars?



Because these are people who don't want to put their hand in their pocket every other week to fix something.lol.

I think the 380 will sell heaps in VRX trim.

Who said it was a sports car?

The XR6 isn't exactly faster than the base Falcon, but how many of those do you see on the roads?

The GT has more luxury than any of those cars you listed, but yes it will probably have trouble against the XR6T and SS.

A $20k Skyline is faster than a lot of cars at the same price so why the heck do people bother buying other cars?

A $50k BMW is slower than lots of cars at the same price too, why the heck do people bother with it?

I know what you're saying, though. It'd be very nice if the VRX and GT had some power upgrades, but really I just think the VRX needs more aggressive wheels. I don't think Mitsubishi will have nearly as much trouble as you think.

The XR6 is actually quicker due to a different diff ratio, plus theres the Turbo option. Plus now the XR6 comes with a six speed auto while the ****box Falcon doesnt!

I was excited about the new 380 launch until I was told that all models are basically the same... Its stupid.

Who said it was a sports car?

The XR6 isn't exactly faster than the base Falcon, but how many of those do you see on the roads?

The GT has more luxury than any of those cars you listed, but yes it will probably have trouble against the XR6T and SS.

A $20k Skyline is faster than a lot of cars at the same price so why the heck do people bother buying other cars?

A $50k BMW is slower than lots of cars at the same price too, why the heck do people bother with it?

I know what you're saying, though. It'd be very nice if the VRX and GT had some power upgrades, but really I just think the VRX needs more aggressive wheels. I don't think Mitsubishi will have nearly as much trouble as you think.

Agreed.

Different people have different " needs " for a car. Most people that buy exotic/very high priced cars do it for the simple fact that they can and to say " hey look, I have a sh!t load of money " reguardless of power or performance. From what I can gather mitsubishi is just trying to make a market for everyone. We might know that the GT won't perform as well as the base model but the suit wearing rich guy doesn't, he just see's his money on wheels and a place to put his $1000 phone.

You made a good point but a little under informed I think.

Once again.... Good luck Mitsubishi !

To answer your own question, yes, you don’t know what the VR-X and GT are like, you haven't read about there features or specifications, and you haven't seen them, go and have read about the 380GT on the MMAL website, and go and have a look at one.

Power isn’t the be all and end all, the 380GT has not been built or marketed at the XR6T, SS, XR8, WRX or EVO IX. People will buy these models, they just wont sell in high volume. If they sell well, we might see a performance model. The 380 is also market at the Mazda 6 etc, look how many of those you see driving around.

Just remember, your very lucky to be looking at the 380, hands up to those here that have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours, and over 600 million dollars on a motor vehicle, and have researched and marketed, on a tight budget. Also notice that the 380 is auto only, so its marketed at an older segment.

I had a look at a VR-X today, and for the amount of extra gear, and style you get for 39990 on road, why would you buy a base model anyway?, I believe the VR-X's will sell.

The XR6 is actually quicker due to a different diff ratio, plus theres the Turbo option. Plus now the XR6 comes with a six speed auto while the ****box Falcon doesnt!

I was excited about the new 380 launch until I was told that all models are basically the same... Its stupid.

lol, have you went and had a look at a VR-X mate?, its not the same as a Base 380, its the same as me thinking a XR6, is just a tarted up BA XT.

lol, have you went and had a look at a VR-X mate?, its not the same as a Base 380, its the same as me thinking a XR6, is just a tarted up BA XT.

Yes i actually have...

Im talking about performance levels, and some decent sized alloy rims... The XR6 is light years ahead of the VRX.

Im not here to put **** on the car, but rather im trying to work out its good points, after watching Tom Phillips on the news before talk about how the 380 may not do it for Mitsubishi Australia i have to wonder why they even bothered in the first place, and why you would start saying **** like that a week after releasing a new model... :nuts:

Didn't Tom Phillips leave Mitsubishi?

Yes in 2 weeks time.

Why he would negatively hype a new model has got me questioning whats happening with the 380 and whether or not the response from the Sydney motorshow has been that positive so far.

I think it's widely accepted that the 'GT' moniker is generally accepted as being a Sports version of a car. GT and GTi have been around since the MK1 Golf and the first thing I assumed was that the 380GT is a sports model. If it was a luxury cruiser like the Verada then wouldn't then have given it a SE or SR tag? So is it or isn't it? If it's a sports model then what cars is it competing against? If it's more of a cruiser then is it competing against the likes of the Nissan Maxima? I'm hoping the 380 will be a success, but I'm just really confused with Mitsubishi's marketing.

I might be talking crap here but the GT doesn't happen to stand for "Grand Tourer" or whatever it is? if so then that would explain it.

lol, well then BAFALCONXR6OWNER you would know, that the VR-X has different seats, sports seats that is, A Better sound system including a 6 stack CD player, you would also know that the suspension has been recalibrated for sports tuning, the rims are 17 inch, and the suspension is tuned precisely to the tire diameter. It also has a different Speedo cluster to the base model, LCD display for the climate control, a higher quality interior finish. Not to mention the 380 VR-X looks awesome compared to the base model 380.

XR6 is light years ahead is it, ok then how?, the 380 is Euro 3 compliant, is the BA XR6, the 380 has 294 mm ventilated Twin pot callipers and about 285 mm rear VENTILATED disc brakes. The 380 chassis has been toy tab welded for better rigidity, and its aligned to within 0.7 mm, which is well below industry standard. The XR6 is also around 50 Kg heavier. Does it come standard with Side impact airbags?.

Does the XR-6, come standard with climate control?, does it have a 5/10 year warranty?. Name me some features that outclass the 380 in the XR6, I’m always willing to learn.

Have you drove a 380 VR-X? as well. The 380 isn’t just a engine with a car built around, it has been engineered from the ground up, also the 380’s 3.8 won an engineering award, here are the details:Award Wining Engine (http://autoweb.drive.com.au/cms/A_104984/newsarticle.html)

If you want to know about the 380, get the latest issue of wheels, or go onto the thread with MMAL press information.

EDIT : ohhh not to mention that the side of the 380 is a one piece panel, rolled by MMAL themselves, Does the XR6 have that?, ohhh and by the way the 380 will be Euro4 compliant, if MMAL change the 3rd catalytic converter too higher grade precious metals.

Close, GT was first coined by Ford I think for the Mustang and stands for Grand Sport.

[QUOTE=Aspec]lol, well then BAFALCONXR6OWNER you would know, that the VR-X has different seats, sports seats that is, A Better sound system including a 6 stack CD player, you would also know that the suspension has been recalibrated for sports tuning, the rims are 17 inch, and the suspension is tuned precisely to the tire diameter. It also has a different Speedo cluster to the base model, LCD display for the climate control, a higher quality interior finish. Not to mention the 380 VR-X looks awesome compared to the base model 380.


Thats great that they have done that. But why oh why did the omitt to upgrade the one thing that would be crying out for an upgrade - the engine? Sports seats, sports suspension, sports wheels, sports speedo, sporty looks. Isn't it blatantly obvious that you have to have some slight performace increase over a base model? Are they targetting middle aged men who wanted to have a sporty looking car that isn't particularly sporting going?

[QUOTE=Aspec]lol, well then BAFALCONXR6OWNER you would know, that the VR-X has different seats, sports seats that is, A Better sound system including a 6 stack CD player, you would also know that the suspension has been recalibrated for sports tuning, the rims are 17 inch, and the suspension is tuned precisely to the tire diameter. It also has a different Speedo cluster to the base model, LCD display for the climate control, a higher quality interior finish. Not to mention the 380 VR-X looks awesome compared to the base model 380.


Thats great that they have done that. But why oh why did the omitt to upgrade the one thing that would be crying out for an upgrade - the engine? Sports seats, sports suspension, sports wheels, sports speedo, sporty looks. Isn't it blatantly obvious that you have to have some slight performace increase over a base model? Are they targetting middle aged men who wanted to have a sporty looking car that isn't particularly sporting going?

Have a ponder on what I wrote in this thread this might answer your question.

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26142&page=2&pp=10

Thats great that they have done that. But why oh why did the omitt to upgrade the one thing that would be crying out for an upgrade - the engine? Sports seats, sports suspension, sports wheels, sports speedo, sporty looks. Isn't it blatantly obvious that you have to have some slight performace increase over a base model? Are they targetting middle aged men who wanted to have a sporty looking car that isn't particularly sporting going?

Holy smoke, why didn’t ford upgrade the XR6's engine power?, there are heaps of XR6 going around, because of the better overall package it is compared to the XT. Same with the 380, and 380 VR-X, as Ive said, this car isn’t all about the engine, its the overall package you get, and with the 380 VR-X you get more, including a much more aggressive and “sporty” drive. Go and drive a 380 VR-X, and come back and whinge about power.

BTW MMAL would have loved for the 380 VR-X and GT to have more power, but they didnt have the $$$$$, they were originally going to have to separate engine and gearbox combos for the 380 and 380 VR-X/GT, but they had to make a decision because of lack of funds, so they went with the better set-up all round, which is great for the 380 stock model.

Give the car time, and do your research before bagging it out.

Close, GT was first coined by Ford I think for the Mustang and stands for Grand Sport.

GT was first " coined " by the italians. Farrari's first road car was a GT meaning Grand Tourer and was thought to have the same great qualities of the race cars with a more suitable engine for it's application and a luxurious interior ( by their standars at that time ).

Hmm XR6 vs VRX?

- XR6 is Euro 3 Standard compliant as of now with the new BF Release. (All australian built cars have to be compliant before Jan 06).
- XR6 has 190 KW standard with the option of 245KW Turbo.
- XR6 has a Six Speed ZF German Designed auto gearbox.
- XR6 has a T56 Six Speed Manual as standard.
- XR6 has 17 inch alloy standard.
- XR6 has 322 mm x 28 mm front and 328 mm x 26 mm rear brakes.
- XR6 has traction control standard.
- XR6 has Sports suspension calibrated by FPV.

Not to mention everything else the interior has going for it, along with the body kit and exterior that doesnt look like an XT. the VRX is not aggressive enough, it looks like a 380 with alloys and a lip spoiler.

Options:
Six-speed automatic $1,250
Prestige paint $355
Chromaflair paint® $1,590
Premium audio system $985
DVD satellite navigation system $3,600
XR luxury interior package $4,595
1600 kg towpack $450
Reverse sensing system $500
Power adjustable pedals $350
Side airbags $555
Sports steering wheel $695
XR sports leather seats $2,495
Sunroof $2,250
4 x 18" alloy wheels (standard on XR8) $1,500

For me the VRX has nothing on the XR6, and thats just that, let alone an XR6 Turbo! :badgrin:

Holy smoke, why didn’t ford upgrade the XR6's engine power?, there are heaps of XR6 going around, because of the better overall package it is compared to the XT. Same with the 380, and 380 VR-X, as Ive said, this car isn’t all about the engine, its the overall package you get, and with the 380 VR-X you get more, including a much more aggressive and “sporty” drive. Go and drive a 380 VR-X, and come back and whinge about power.

BTW MMAL would have loved for the 380 VR-X and GT to have more power, but they didnt have the $$$$$, they were originally going to have to separate engine and gearbox combos for the 380 and 380 VR-X/GT, but they had to make a decision because of lack of funds, so they went with the better set-up all round, which is great for the 380 stock model.

Give the car time, and do your research before bagging it out.

It does, most of them are XR6 Turbos with 240 kw.... And yes i did drive a LS today, as for your aggressiveness its not more agressive to drive then the last model :nuts:

Im not here to bag the product out, but i have to question where the 600 million went considering mitsubishi started with most of the Techonlogy from the Galant anyways. As I have said i was excited at the start of the launch as the car was hyped up to be an Australian first in many ways, but it seriously isn't what I had expected after the trouble Mitsubishi has had in the past few years.

For most Australians it wont stand up next to a BF Falcon, or a VZ Commodore.

I don't think that this should turn into an XR6 vs 380 debate because it will just go on and on. All reports on the 380 seem reasonably positve, but its a pretty competitive market out there. I don't think the VRX's and GT's will sell and subsequently they will suffer with devaluation like previous Magnas have. I like this quote:

"Im not here to bag the product out, but i have to question where the 600 million went considering mitsubishi started with most of the Techonlogy from the Galant anyways".

Thats actually quite a good point. Sure the 380 is a good car, but freaking hell 600million? For that I would have thought it could drive itself while you have a kip in the back seat.

600 million is ****all for a production car. and also paying the paycheques to the scientists and people who had to develop the car. it all adds up

Thats actually quite a good point. Sure the 380 is a good car, but freaking hell 600million? For that I would have thought it could drive itself while you have a kip in the back seat.

$600million to be spred between 4 cars and an army of employees. Designers, Auto Electricians, Computer programers, Sales Consultants, Publicity, Multiple test cars, Crash and air bag studies, Machinery changes, Materials, Transport ( getting them to dealers ) and ongoing factory costs just to name a few things that require money.

To us that's alot of money but these people are used to seeing and spending a hell of alot more.

I drove a VRX yesterday. and before you start, i have driven a BA 2004 XR6. I was very impresed the the quality of the car, and the quietness of it. I would love to buy one, but thinking back now, spending over 40k on the road, is a bit steep, considering you could get a new wrx, etc for that price, it begs the question - What are you going to use it for, what do you want it to do. I love the car, but i'd be shopping vary carefully if i was going to spend that much money on a new car (I would love to wait to see what happens to the resale value of it?) I feel the 380 is lightyears ahead of the quality that ford and holden have at the moment, but i'm pretty sure ford will step up another notch with their BF falcon. I hope mitis do well with the car in the tough family car market, as we can't afford to lose the brand and manufacturer.
The battle of which family car is best continues.....

Hmm XR6 vs VRX?

snip snip snip!

For me the VRX has nothing on the XR6, and thats just that, let alone an XR6 Turbo! :badgrin:

But wheres your cupholders?? huh?? huh??

Rather than just copying and pasting stuff, please do a correct comparison.

You can't compare an XR6T against a VRX. The price range is totally different, as are the options. I'm sorry, but an XR6 is a sheep in sheeps (plus perm) clothing. An XR6T is a wolf in sheeps (plus perm) clothing. I regard XR6s (and to a lesser point VRXs), nice cars....but more or less they're base models with some more fibreglass and stickers.

XR6Ts on the other hand...well....they'll be collectables down the track. My mate has one, and I the only thing I can fault is the build quality in parts. If I could swap my car over for one right now, I would.

lets not have a ford vs 380 debate...

rex-man and the ford fella do have valid questions that they pointed out.. as we have also in the magna community. so lets just discuss like proper adults...


:D GROUP HUG EVERYONE!! :D

But wheres your cupholders?? huh?? huh??

Behind the 6 speed gearstick lol .. But they are in the WORSE place possible as you cant have high drinks in there as they get in the way of changing gears.

As most of you know I own a XR6T. Ford will NEVER have the build quality of Mitsubishi, simply because of the volumes they produce. They could hire a shipload more people, but then their profit margin would be thined out.

So long as people dont get nasty towards each other and put their views across in a constructive fashion, this thread can keep on trucking.

Both for's and againsts have valid views :)

P.S I still wouldnt buy a 380 simply because its gutless (across the whole range base model to king of the road) and a fwd. (2 things i dont want anymore.)

Everyone seems to get tied up on comparing the 380 to the Falcon and the Commodore, fair enough, its a valid comparison. But what about the other cars that the 380 could potentially take sales from, cars like:

Subaru Liberty
Audi A4 2.0L (non quottro)
Honda Accord/Accord Euro
Toyota Camry
Mazda 6
Nissan Maxima
Hyundai's family car
Volkswagen Bora/Passat
Saab 9-3
Volvo s40/v40

13 cars, 12 of which are fwd I believe.

Close, GT was first coined by Ford I think for the Mustang and stands for Grand Sport.

Since when did Sport start with a T. :P

People compain the VRX hasn't got extra power over the base model but take both cars up or
down a winding mountain road and I bet the VRX will finish first.

Other cars that have sports or GT badge that I can think of that has not got extra power than
the base models.

Ford Falcon XR6
Holden Commodore SV6
Mazda 6 Sports
Toyota Camry Sportivo
Toyota Rav4 Sports
Just to name a few.
There are lots of manufacturers that are doing it.

In an article I read Mits said that they are following Mazdas path of overall sports package
rather than outright power (holden and ford).

People compain the VRX hasn't got extra power over the base model but take both cars up or
down a winding mountain road and I bet the VRX will finish first.

Other cars that have sports or GT badge that I can think of that has not got extra power than
the base models.

Ford Falcon XR6
Holden Commodore SV6
Mazda 6 Sports
Toyota Camry Sportivo
Toyota Rav4 Sports
Just to name a few.
There are lots of manufacturers that are doing it.

In an article I read Mits said that they are following Mazdas path of overall sports package
rather than outright power (holden and ford).


Actually the SV6 has 190kw whereas the base model Commodore has 175kw. At least in some ways, there is the option to buy a turbo XR6 so really when you think about it, both the Commodore and Falcon have more power in their sports models than the 380.

With 1 million cars per year sold..........................................Can' t go wrong eh?l

back on topic........

With respect to power output, to answer your question, yes the base model and the VRX & GT all have the same power output, this is largely due to intial planning MMAL having 2 engines, one lower spec and one higher spec for the top models, during planning MMAL were told only one engine for the 380 so were forced to choose either the low spec engine or the high spec engine for the entire range, fortunately the better engine was selected.

On the other hand, if you were in New Zealand and you buy a VRX or GT you will get a little more power than you will in the Australian spec car, this is due to NZ having a slightly different intake in the car and hence more power.

With respect to no one buying these cars "cause they are not fast", well you need to sit back and have a good think about the true target market for this vehicle, I can almost gaurentee MMAL have no intention of marketing this car to go up against its own Evo IX, the STI and the likes...... absolutely no comparison, yes the money might be similar but the target markets most definately are not!. If you were a 50 year old with a family, would you realistically be looking at a high performance sports car, or perhaps a car that will sensably transport the family, has the get up and go with a little attitude?

My 2 cents :rant:

It does, most of them are XR6 Turbos with 240 kw.... And yes i did drive a LS today, as for your aggressiveness its not more agressive to drive then the last model :nuts:



Try to get a drive in something else. LS and Base are the only models lacking sports suspension. Weve had an LX for the week, and after taking it thru some twisty roads it doesnt feel a great deal like a fwd, as the magna did. Ill agree with what others have said too, build quality is far ahead of the BA. Well have to wait to see how the BF is.

That being said, if i had the money to spend it wouldnt be going on a 380.
Maybe a hot hatch like the new XR5 or a Golf Gti.

I went to Syd international Motor show yest and took lots of pics and think the 380 is so overrated.. im not a fan.. :cry:

Hmm XR6 vs VRX?

- XR6 is Euro 3 Standard compliant as of now with the new BF Release. (All australian built cars have to be compliant before Jan 06).
- XR6 has 190 KW standard with the option of 245KW Turbo.
- XR6 has a Six Speed ZF German Designed auto gearbox.
- XR6 has a T56 Six Speed Manual as standard.
- XR6 has 17 inch alloy standard.
- XR6 has 322 mm x 28 mm front and 328 mm x 26 mm rear brakes.
- XR6 has traction control standard.
- XR6 has Sports suspension calibrated by FPV.

Not to mention everything else the interior has going for it, along with the body kit and exterior that doesnt look like an XT. the VRX is not aggressive enough, it looks like a 380 with alloys and a lip spoiler.

Options:
Six-speed automatic $1,250
Prestige paint $355
Chromaflair paint® $1,590
Premium audio system $985
DVD satellite navigation system $3,600
XR luxury interior package $4,595
1600 kg towpack $450
Reverse sensing system $500
Power adjustable pedals $350
Side airbags $555
Sports steering wheel $695
XR sports leather seats $2,495
Sunroof $2,250
4 x 18" alloy wheels (standard on XR8) $1,500

For me the VRX has nothing on the XR6, and thats just that, let alone an XR6 Turbo! :badgrin:

The BF XR6 has quite a bit more power on the fact sheet, yes, but I would still like to see its quater mile time, I would like to see a 380 go up against a XR6, on a dyno, and see what the power is at the wheels.

were did you get your brake sizes from? Ive got 303 mm on the front, and 298 on the rear, still a solid disc though. I Like the kit on the VR-X, it looks alot better then the standard kit, the grill is different, the front bar is looks great, and the rear also looks different with the tailights MMAL have used.

I also like the interior of the VR-X better than that of the XR6, but thats just personal preferenace, you still get more features for your cash, then the XR6, if you want items on the XR6, you have to option for them, and watch the price roll up.

I agree on one thing though MMAL need a model to take on the XR6T, with something like a SC 380, add a supercharger to a 380, and you'll get some figures in XR6T territory.

[QUOTE=BAFALCONXR6OWNER]Hmm XR6 vs VRX?

- XR6 is Euro 3 Standard compliant as of now with the new BF Release. (All australian built cars have to be compliant before Jan 06).

Can anyone else confirm the BF will be Euro3 compliant. I heard that we are in phase in at the moment, all new cars have to be Euro3, upgrades do not !

Yes it Euro 3 compliant, thats why Ford had to revise all motors including the V8s so that they would past Jan 06.

I can only see the 380 being a fleet car and thats it, its still behind the Falcon and Commodore.....

I'm more dissapointed then anything about it all as I really thought the car was going to have some balls, but they all look the same from the outside except for the boot area.... and alloy wheels.

Sorry, don't wanna sound rude but can anyone else confirm this.
Maybe post a link to a car site or something that has it listed.

rexman.. mate how come so many people by the N/A XR6 which also has no more power then an XT falcon??

How about thinking things through before posting, mitsubishi are NOT the first to offer a sports model that has no more power then the base model, for years and years and years the S pac commodore had no more power then an executive yet peple still bought them, how about the camry sportivo? how many of them do you see on the road? yet they also have no more power then the base model.

sorry if i am sounding harsh, but im just sick of reading about this! There have been about 10 threads since the thing was launched about the sports models lack of power and i am just sick of hearing about it!

believe it or not, true sports car fans are interested in something called HANDLING!! something the VRX and GT does better then the base model

Actually the SV6 has 190kw whereas the base model Commodore has 175kw. At least in some ways, there is the option to buy a turbo XR6 so really when you think about it, both the Commodore and Falcon have more power in their sports models than the 380.
Power is nothing. Who needs to go 200km/hr+. Torque is very important for good acceleration
and economy. The 3.8 is very torquey as one review mentioned that you can basically take off
in 2nd and maybe in 3rd in the manual. with 343Nm and weighing less than either the C'dore
and Falcon, it'll be quicker. It also hurts the hip pockets less. Handling is also very important.
I bet you I can easily win a hill climb in my GTVi AWD against an exec with slighly less power
and less weight.

Power is nothing. Who needs to go 200km/hr+. Torque is very important for good acceleration
and economy. The 3.8 is very torquey as one review mentioned that you can basically take off
in 2nd and maybe in 3rd in the manual. with 343Nm and weighing less than either the C'dore
and Falcon, it'll be quicker. It also hurts the hip pockets less. Handling is also very important.
I bet you I can easily win a hill climb in my GTVi AWD against an exec with slighly less power
and less weight.

It isnt quicker then the SV6 Commodore or the BF XR6... they are both in the high 6 seconds to 100, where as the 380 is around the 7.4 mark.

I do tend to agree that maybe the VRX and GT models might not have zillions of extra features over say a XR6 or commodore, each will have plus's and minus's in different buyers opinions.
BUT.... if you read some of the business plans for the 380, BY FAR the major target market is fleet buyers (& 35+ year old professional males earning 60k+), sure the base models will probably sell like hotcakes to fleet buyers becuase they are good value for money, but some of those fleet purchases are going to be for the slightly fancier models for semi execs of the company etc which is where the VRX & GT come into it.

Guys your average bean counter working for a large company, IS NOT going to sit there for 5hrs debating if twin pot brakes are better, front wheel drive vs rear, power to weight ratios etc etc, they are gonna go " I need to buy 100 base models, and 30 exec cars, the 380 vrx = $39k, XR6=40k, ok 380 it is..." or ford give us a better deal, or holden better servicing etc. They don't know or care about all the enthusiast stuff, its a car - it has a price, it has depreciation and they need to get rid of it in 3yrs...

Thats where mitsubishi will make its real money, not with some dude who can't decide between a xr6 turbo or 380GT..

vrx and gt are luxury...have they tested the manual vrx yet?? 1/4mile etc...
i dont know weight yet but as to 175kw (fly) atfw compared to 190atrw (fly) i think i know what i'd back...i really hope for a ralliart...smaller than magnas too...

im prejudice

It does, most of them are XR6 Turbos with 240 kw.... And yes i did drive a LS today, as for your aggressiveness its not more agressive to drive then the last model :nuts:

Im not here to bag the product out, but i have to question where the 600 million went considering mitsubishi started with most of the Techonlogy from the Galant anyways. As I have said i was excited at the start of the launch as the car was hyped up to be an Australian first in many ways, but it seriously isn't what I had expected after the trouble Mitsubishi has had in the past few years.

For most Australians it wont stand up next to a BF Falcon, or a VZ Commodore.


Mate honestly u said a few times now "ur not out there to bag the new 380" but look the stuff u rite. U gotta understand that what mitsubishi did with the 380 considering the budget they had was absoloutly excellent. Given more money im sure the car would be even better than it is. As mentioned before, they had to choose the engine as they had a choice of 2 previously but had to make a decision. Thats just an example of how they had to make a decision based on cost. The part where u said u wonder where 600million went? Try millions spent on upgrading tooling to deliver a world class built car. The 380 is built way over and ahead of the BA or the VZ. As has been said many times on other parts of the forum, cut the new 380 some slack... Its been out for not even a week

Well as I said in my initial post i didn't know too much about the 380 esp. VRX and GT models. I've read up a bit more bout them and I think I misunderstood who the target customers were. This is a good quote from VR4.

With respect to no one buying these cars "cause they are not fast", well you need to sit back and have a good think about the true target market for this vehicle, I can almost gaurentee MMAL have no intention of marketing this car to go up against its own Evo IX, the STI and the likes...... absolutely no comparison, yes the money might be similar but the target markets most definately are not!. If you were a 50 year old with a family, would you realistically be looking at a high performance sports car, or perhaps a car that will sensably transport the family, has the get up and go with a little attitude?

And I found this snippet from 'the age':

Are you a potential customer?
Mitsubishi thinks a 380 customer will predominantly be


Male
35-plus, mainly 40-56, average age 48
Married, no children at home
Professionals, white-collar workers and managers
Earning $60,000-plus
Eastern-seaboard city dwellers
Achievers, socially aware, traditional family values
Will drive in cities and make long trips


So I guess me whining on about the lack of performance in the top models is a bit of a moot point.

You have hit the nail right on the head..... Mitsubishi have got it all right, this forum is full of predominantly younger magna enthuisiasts obsessed with modifications and making their Magna go faster or look cooler. Therefore the opinions expressed on this forum are likely to only be a common feeling amoungst the very smallest portion of true prospective 380 buyers.

In a nutshell, the moans and groans expressed here (especially performance based) have little or no bearing on the potential success of the 380.

another 2c :P

It isnt quicker then the SV6 Commodore or the BF XR6... they are both in the high 6 seconds to 100, where as the 380 is around the 7.4 mark.

the SV6 and the N/A XR6 do NOT do 0-100 in 6 seconds :rolleyes: the 380 is infact every bit as fast as both of them

I drove the VRX 380 yesterday for 20mins, and I can tell you most private buyers will opt for the VRX, it is just soooo dam nice and sporty to drive, and has a host more features than the base model, for just a few grand more, and the mags look very nice on it, I think you need to see it up close in person to appreciate the sexiness of the VRX.

the SV6 and the N/A XR6 do NOT do 0-100 in 6 seconds :rolleyes: the 380 is infact every bit as fast as both of them

According to a copy of Wheels the SV6 does 0 - 100 in around 6.9 seconds.

I have it on good authority that the new 190 KW Six speed Auto XR6 has brought its time down from 7.3 to approx 6.8 seconds from 0 - 100.

According to Wheels they have the New 380 VRX doing 0 - 100 in around 7.5 seconds. :nuts:

Anyways its obvious that none of you appreciate what I have to say, which if fair enough, but as I have said before I was hoping for alot more from the car. Ford went from the AU Falcon to the BA and spent only $500 million dollars, Mitsubishi had most of the Technology and Design given to them through the Galant, so I really cannot see where the $600 million went, it has nothing over the old model in technology sophistication, its built on the same plateform as the Galant using the same basic design, even the Galant has a steering wheel that looks the same!

The VRX will sell ok, not as a performance model but as a luxury machine, which is fair enough. I just hope they sell 40,000 + of them a year to keep affloat, but the markets they are targetting wont fill this void, they NEED a performance model that puts the 2 other big aussie sixes to shame!

Anyways Tom Phillips is the one going around saying it wont achieve what it needs to, thats enough to put a negative spanner in the works for anyone who is potentially looking at buying one.

Do you really believe the figures quoted in those mags???

What would half the commo falcon drivers say and do if a mitsu 380 beat there cars in the quarter mile, all hell would break loose.

Simple, put your xr6 down a real drag strip and see what it does.

Then when someone here buys a 380 and takes it down the drag strip we will see what it does.

Bain has a turbo xr6 manual, and what did he get, 14.1secs, there are NA magnas here that do better then that.

According to a copy of Wheels the SV6 does 0 - 100 in around 6.9 seconds.

I have it on good authority that the new 190 KW Six speed Auto XR6 has brought its time down from 7.3 to approx 6.8 seconds from 0 - 100.

According to Wheels they have the New 380 VRX doing 0 - 100 in around 7.5 seconds. :nuts:


blah blah blah. Did you know that a STOCK Magna Sports has run a 14.8 1/4 mile time.. WTFBBQ you say, a FWD fagna with only 163kW posting that sort of time :nuts: I will let you try and figure out why for yourself...

Also, Im genuinely curious to see if you know of an SV6 or XR6 which has bettered that time, STOCK?

oh and yeh that has not much to do with the 380, I just thought i would inform you of it as i get the impression you are a bit naive to these sort of things....

According to a copy of Wheels the SV6 does 0 - 100 in around 6.9 seconds.

I have it on good authority that the new 190 KW Six speed Auto XR6 has brought its time down from 7.3 to approx 6.8 seconds from 0 - 100.

According to Wheels they have the New 380 VRX doing 0 - 100 in around 7.5 seconds. :nuts:

Anyways its obvious that none of you appreciate what I have to say, which if fair enough, but as I have said before I was hoping for alot more from the car. Ford went from the AU Falcon to the BA and spent only $500 million dollars, Mitsubishi had most of the Technology and Design given to them through the Galant, so I really cannot see where the $600 million went, it has nothing over the old model in technology sophistication, its built on the same plateform as the Galant using the same basic design, even the Galant has a steering wheel that looks the same!

The VRX will sell ok, not as a performance model but as a luxury machine, which is fair enough. I just hope they sell 40,000 + of them a year to keep affloat, but the markets they are targetting wont fill this void, they NEED a performance model that puts the 2 other big aussie sixes to shame!

Anyways Tom Phillips is the one going around saying it wont achieve what it needs to, thats enough to put a negative spanner in the works for anyone who is potentially looking at buying one.


mmm you are showing good restraint for a Ford owner. Your argument has a lot of logic; however, we Mitsu fans are a little one-eyed, biased even. A bit like a Ford fan to their Falcons. :)

In gear times are just as important: the drivers perception of how quickly the car moves from 80 to 110km/h (typical highway overtaking manouver) is a very key statistic. Perhaps stronger than 0 to 100. If my car feels like its got mucho grunt when I need it (overtaking) then I will feel much better about it.

I think the new 380 has acheived 4.4 sec times in the 80 to 120km/h bracket. That is fairly quick. An XR6 does 80 to 110km/h in 4.5.

Horses for courses.

According to a copy of Wheels the SV6 does 0 - 100 in around 6.9 seconds.

I have it on good authority that the new 190 KW Six speed Auto XR6 has brought its time down from 7.3 to approx 6.8 seconds from 0 - 100.

well a 380 does 0-100 in 7.1, if the SV6 does it in 6.9 then wtf are we arguing about? a difference of .2 of a second will mean that whoever is the better driver is the person who will win the race.

As for the 6 speed XR6, well i thought the 6 speed auto only came in the XR6 turbo not the N/A XR6?? well anyway if that is infact correct and you can get the 6 speed in the N/A XR6 then i am more then happy to appologise and conceed my mistake on that point

If you were a 50 year old with a family, would you realistically be looking at a high performance sports car, or perhaps a car that will sensably transport the family, has the get up and go with a little attitude?

My 2 cents :rant: Let me just say that a majority of XR6 Turbo owners are infact mid 30's - 60's and in fact have families.... (From a few of the Ford XR6Turbo meets ive been too (50+ cars at a time).

Australia's car ownership values have changed a bit over the last 10 years.. Its now possible to afford a high powered family sedan, whereas 10 years back the average income of families were quite a bit lower.


mmm you are showing good restraint for a Ford owner. Your argument has a lot of logic; however, we Mitsu fans are a little one-eyed, biased even. A bit like a Ford fan to their Falcons. :) Come off it.. Dont lump me in your one-eyed basket.. Nothing worse than a naive car enthusiast like some of the people on this forum..

Did you know that a STOCK Magna Sports has run a 14.8 1/4 mile time.. WTFBBQ you say, a FWD fagna with only 163kW posting that sort of time

A certain member on this forum just ran a 14.7 1/4 mile in his TJ 3.5L manual with his only mod being a rear muffler from a magna sports.

According to a copy of Wheels the SV6 does 0 - 100 in around 6.9 seconds.

I have it on good authority that the new 190 KW Six speed Auto XR6 has brought its time down from 7.3 to approx 6.8 seconds from 0 - 100.

According to Wheels they have the New 380 VRX doing 0 - 100 in around 7.5 seconds. :nuts:

Anyways its obvious that none of you appreciate what I have to say, which if fair enough, but as I have said before I was hoping for alot more from the car. Ford went from the AU Falcon to the BA and spent only $500 million dollars, Mitsubishi had most of the Technology and Design given to them through the Galant, so I really cannot see where the $600 million went, it has nothing over the old model in technology sophistication, its built on the same plateform as the Galant using the same basic design, even the Galant has a steering wheel that looks the same!

The VRX will sell ok, not as a performance model but as a luxury machine, which is fair enough. I just hope they sell 40,000 + of them a year to keep affloat, but the markets they are targetting wont fill this void, they NEED a performance model that puts the 2 other big aussie sixes to shame!

Anyways Tom Phillips is the one going around saying it wont achieve what it needs to, thats enough to put a negative spanner in the works for anyone who is potentially looking at buying one.

And who is your secret good authority that says the falcon has gotten its 0-100 time down from 7.3 or whatever to 6.8? Got the time slips like some of the members here have? And how much does the Falcon weigh now? Just curious.

Who gives a rats @ss what a magazine says. Too many people view Wheels and Motor magazine as if it were the bible for car performance figures. All those times recorded on magazines were on different days with different conditions. Have all the cars tested on the same day with the same conditions then come up with a conclusion which is the faster, quicker or whatever you want.

I'd like to see if the SV6 can do 0-100 in 6.9secs back to back or was that the best time ever recorded? Thats nothing to get excited over either. Even an older model TJ VRX has done 0-100 in 7 flat and the quarter 15 flat (see Autospeed) and the 380 rolling accelaration from 80-120 km/h is 2.8 sec. The Alloytec for what technology it has does not sound much better than the old pushrod ecotec and even has less torque down low. It didn't get any rave reviews and I don't see that many on the road. Its not just your 0-100 time that make up what a good car is. Look at the whole package instead of concentrating so much on the numbers.

The mitsu V6 engine revs nicely, is very tractable and is reknowned to sound a sh!tload better than the equivalent 6 cyclinder engines from commodore or falcon. And we can go on and on and on about other things besides the engine.....there are plenty of things about each car that are different from another car. We could go on to pick and select which part of the car is better than the other all we want. It all comes down to the appeal of the overall package. After all these are meant to be family cars with a little added sportiness. There are plenty of other features to consider when choosing a car. Do you think someone is going to choose a car over another because it was a few tenths quicker than the other?
I think not. :doubt:

But from reading this thread what I have gleaned is that the sports models (VRX and GT) will have no power increases over the base model. So the perfomance will be identical? Someone tell me that I'm wrong. How on earth are they supposed to target people with sports models which don't outperform the base model.
So you are saying that BA XR6 doesnt sell?

380 rolling accelaration from 80-120 km/h is 2.8 sec.

Thats 80-100 in 2.8s

Come off it.. Dont lump me in your one-eyed basket.. Nothing worse than a naive car enthusiast like some of the people on this forum..

Agree with you there bain 100%, this forum is actually one of the worst when it comes to this kinda thing, i think its an inferiority complex alot of magna owners seem to have

back on topic tho, i think the 380 represent an excellent car for a family car and my understanding is that its also quite a fun car for mums and dads to own. If i personally was in the market for a sports sedan, i think i would still be heading straight for my nearest ford or holden dealership, but for everyone who isnt interested in a sports sedan the 380 represents an excellent alternative to both ford and holden

mm... interesting responses. Think I did well in my response to the Ford man. Who, as I said, presented a fair run-down on his impressions of the 380. Fair, when he kinda looks like a ford man. (with a name like that).

Bain: the one-eyed comment was a little tongue in cheek: did you notice my smiley?

Basically, why would we join and contribute to a Mitsubishi forum if we don't have just a bit of bias to the make? I for one have owned Holdens and Fords in the past... as I suspect many of us have. But I saw the light about five years ago with my first Mitsu. And I've bought another since. Brand loyalty I suppose. Even with all that said, I still eye off the latest Commodore SS with a bit of jealousy. V8 man I will always be, at heart.

You all have a nice day. :)

The 380 VR-X sitting in Commwlth Motors, Woden ACT looked very nice by the way. Pity I haven't had time to take one for a spin. Once I have, I might come back and post a great thread like this one: link (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26230)

I think instead of sitting here arguing like school kids everyone should just be quiet and wait and see.

All these arguments are really tiresome and have no purpose in the end.

I think instead of sitting here arguing like school kids everyone should just be quiet and wait and see.

All these arguments are really tiresome and have no purpose in the end.


:stoopid:

everyone seems to be a expert on the 380... never new there were so many experts in the 16-21 age bracket :P

Research, according to Mitsubishi, shows that buyers want a large-sized (and engined) car with the handling of the smaller family car offerings.

"In the past we have traditionally gone head to head in all of our emotional appeal towards the Commodore and Falcon," Mitsubishi market and product strategy manager Derek McIlroy says.

"There is a chance to uniquely position a car in this market.

"A car that delivers all the space, comfort and power of a large car but combines that with the sporty good looks and handling of a small, sportier car. That is the positioning of the new 380, a unique place."

http://carsguide.news.com.au/news/story_page/0,8269,16751029%255E21822,00.html

Makes the arguments about BA Fords and Commodores a bit redundant....Mitsi is challenging the market by slipping the car in between family sedans and small cars like Pulsars....maybe their competiton in this area is more likely to come from Mazda and Subaru

Has Mitsubishi made the right decision....at this time their is definitely a trend to these more compact family sedans with superior handling and more responsive , torquey engines. Personally my fave too.

never new there were so many experts in the 16-21 age bracket :P

age is no barrier to knowledge, but your right everyone is an expert... especially me :P

Makes the arguments about BA Fords and Commodores a bit redundant....Mitsi is challenging the market by slipping the car in between family sedans and small cars like Pulsars....maybe their competiton in this area is more likely to come from Mazda and Subaru

If this is correct (and I dont know) - that means Mitsi is returning to the roots of their "big" car. Look at the 1st gen, slotted in between the mid-size (Telstar, Camira, 626) and the big buggers (Falcon, Commodore).

so I really cannot see where the $600 million went, it has nothing over the old model in technology sophistication, its built on the same plateform as the Galant using the same basic design, even the Galant has a steering wheel that looks the same!

Close to 400 of the 600 million was spent on a new press + other upgrades to the assemblly plant for the 380, so only a smaller portion of that went directtly into the 380. :D

I think magna will always be considered a large family car, along with fords and holdens. Look back a few years ago when holdens were as big as fords. Then they brought out the VB? style of cars which were smaller than their previous models, and kept them smaller than fords to this day. But, they are still regarded as a large car. There is not a lot of difference between a magna and a holden on the inside. Where I think magna is better is in the build quality and safety features such as brakes and handling.
The 380 has not had the ugly duckling tranformation that the AU to BA falcon had. This was very noticable, mainly because the AU will take its place as one of the worst cars ever built. Fortunately, the TL magna was not a bad car.
But, I think the 380 does not go far enough to warrant a 'wow' factor. I would imagine it took a few years to design and improve, so basically we a looking at a 3-5 year old car. I think a big six like the falcodores is not what the Australian public want right now. The Corolla topping the car sales is testament to that. Also, hybrids (gas/petrol/electric) sales a getting stronger every day.
I think were the 380 will come into its own is in a few years when the resale value plummets. They will be cheaper than falcodores and 'better built'. This is when then will be popular.

Kansai