I was at Mitsu at Glendale today checking out a black manual VRX and I was talking to the salesman and he told me that the manual 380 is heavier on fuel than the auto which I found hard to believe considering the magna manuals are better on fuel than the auto versions.

Has anyone else been told the same?

Dam nice car tho wish I had the money to get one. lol .

somehow find that hard to beleive.. the comparative fuel consumtion for the auto 380 is 10.8L/100km, not sure what the manual one is becuase my mitsu dealer hasnt got any manuals in.. but i would say that manuals would be better on fuel becuase you can change gears at the right time, also when stopped at the lights you are idling in "drive" in an auto whereas when you have the clutch in in a manual your idling is easier as though your sitting there in neutral..

My belief was that manuals are and will always be better on petrol

edit: and yes, they are very nice, 380VRX with leather and sunroof:drool:.. i had to leave as i was afraid i'd buy one even though i cant afford one

all the more advacned autos are more fuel efficient than the manuals theses days, mostly on the top uro modles and the the ford 6 speed auto (i think)

The manual has shorter gear Ratio's, and whilst the Auto is claimed to be 10.8L\100kms the Manual is 11.4L\100kms. From the reviews i've read the Manual when cruising at 100lm\h is sitting on 3grand whilse with the auto its at 2grand.

Shortly after the release of the 380, the age newspaper ran a double spread review in it's "drive" section. I remember reading that fuel consumption in the manuals was higher than the auto as (this is a direct quote BTW) "The manual's are tuned more for performance".

I'm interested to find out in what way exactly...

The manual box in the 380 is quite a close ratio box, with quite a low diff ratio, giving it good response for us sporty drivers. Yeah ok, you lose a bit of fuel economy, but most people will get the auto, just because its easier to drive with. People who want the manual are a: stupid cause they can afford thatmuch for a 380, but don't want to fork out a measly 1500 bucks, just to make there driving easier. or B: People who are performance minded, and want to drive there cars in a sporty way, with less concern for fuel economy.
Since it revs a bit higher, it delivers a lot more torque in this part of the rev range. If you were driving an auto, when you would approach a hill, and it needs more torque, it would simply shift down smoothly with no hesitation, when required. In a manual, you would be changing gearsmore often, just to keep the car going, hence taking some of the fun away while your in cruise mode (relaxing at 100kph) Thats why its got a higher ratio, make it easier to drive with, and make it more driver friendly at the end of the day.
At the end of the day, the fuel usage stats mean nothing to me, but its intresting to see that this new car is going to be using less fuel than the previous motor, whilst delivering more power and torque

I think it's mostly relative to the weight of your right foot. :roll: Both types have merit in different conditions.

I think a majority of 380 buyers will opt for auto anyway... considering the target audience.

The manual box in the 380 is quite a close ratio box, with quite a low diff ratio, giving it good response for us sporty drivers. Yeah ok, you lose a bit of fuel economy, but most people will get the auto, just because its easier to drive with. People who want the manual are a: stupid cause they can afford thatmuch for a 380, but don't want to fork out a measly 1500 bucks, just to make there driving easier. or B: People who are performance minded, and want to drive there cars in a sporty way, with less concern for fuel economy.
Since it revs a bit higher, it delivers a lot more torque in this part of the rev range. If you were driving an auto, when you would approach a hill, and it needs more torque, it would simply shift down smoothly with no hesitation, when required. In a manual, you would be changing gearsmore often, just to keep the car going, hence taking some of the fun away while your in cruise mode (relaxing at 100kph) Thats why its got a higher ratio, make it easier to drive with, and make it more driver friendly at the end of the day.
At the end of the day, the fuel usage stats mean nothing to me, but its intresting to see that this new car is going to be using less fuel than the previous motor, whilst delivering more power and torque


Bingo :) all down to the diff ratio, the manual 380s have an insanely short diff for a big car, I love it.

Matthius

Great! I won't be touching a manual then, shorter gear ratios mean I'll have to rev the engine to get it off the start, and well I actually hate doing that when i'm *trying* to drive sanely around town.

Great! I won't be touching a manual then, shorter gear ratios mean I'll have to rev the engine to get it off the start, and well I actually hate doing that when i'm *trying* to drive sanely around town.

You've lost me there man ? short ratios mean more revs/kph meaning you gotta work the clutch and engine less to get off the mark but you'll be cruising at a higher rpm.

Matthius

generally manuals are better on fuel then auto's however cos of the manual 380's insanely short final gear ratio that has it doing nearly 3000rpm on the highway, this isnt the case.

Also dont forget manuals are usually better cos they are 5 speed over the auto's 4 speed, however all 380 auto's are 5 speed, thus eliminating this advantage.

Sorry if someone already said all this, i was too lazy to check everyones response just decided to answer the question :P

You've lost me there man ? short ratios mean more revs/kph meaning you gotta work the clutch and engine less to get off the mark but you'll be cruising at a higher rpm.

Matthius

Sorry to be a blonde but what does it mean in terms of performance, top speed, etc when in 5th gear manual at a higher rpm compared to 5th gear tiptronic at the same speed?
I'm trying to understand the difference in the setup of the manual and tippy in the new 380

manual's are always more energy efficient, but if the gear ratio and final drive ratio of the auto is significantly more suited to economy you'll get a situation like now.

Sorry to be a blonde but what does it mean in terms of performance, top speed, etc when in 5th gear manual at a higher rpm compared to 5th gear tiptronic at the same speed?
I'm trying to understand the difference in the setup of the manual and tippy in the new 380

basically a shorter set of gears (eg the manual 380) will have better acceleration and be more responsive to throttle imputs. a longer set of gears (the auto 380) will have better top speed and better fuel economy, but wont have the same acceleration

Hence when manuals usually beat autos but in the long run the auto will pass the manual with the better top speed (if it can keep in sight).

The salesman said to me that it was geared for performance. But I still would've thought they would be close.

do we have 0-100km times for both automatic and manual? because the manual could be pretty damn quick if it has a close-ratio 5 speed and low drivetrain losses due to it being manual and front wheel drive...

the base model manual does 0-100 in 7.1 seconds, i think the auto does it in 7.8 or something

the base model manual does 0-100 in 7.1 seconds, i think the auto does it in 7.8 or something
Then spread that difference out over the quarter mile, and the differnece would blow out by another good couple of 10nth's, around a second slower
From what a rememebr the manual does it in 15 even

[QUOTE=Nathan]Hence when manuals usually beat autos but in the long run the auto will pass the manual with the better top speed (if it can keep in sight).=QUOTE]



thought i might add that they will probably both have the same top speed anyway. dont know if it has been mentioned, but in the wheels mag it suggested that both had cut outs at 200kph. difference was the manuel was doing round 5400rpm and the auto jogging along at around 3800rpm from memory. not that anyone would go that fast anyway.... :badgrin:

The base 380 manual as described in wheels magazine gets to 100km/h in 7.3 secs and did the quarter at 15.3, quicker than the VRX with it's time being 7.5 to 100km/h and 15.4 down the quarter. LS/LX and the GT both had times on 7.8 to 100, and 15.7 down the quarter. Weird. But power to weight comes in tho.

I should also add that the LS/LX and GT tested were auto's and the base and VRX were manuals.

somehow find that hard to beleive.. the comparative fuel consumtion for the auto 380 is 10.8L/100km, not sure what the manual one is becuase my mitsu dealer hasnt got any manuals in.. but i would say that manuals would be better on fuel becuase you can change gears at the right time, also when stopped at the lights you are idling in "drive" in an auto whereas when you have the clutch in in a manual your idling is easier as though your sitting there in neutral..

My belief was that manuals are and will always be better on petrol

edit: and yes, they are very nice, 380VRX with leather and sunroof:drool:.. i had to leave as i was afraid i'd buy one even though i cant afford one

But in an auto ....you put your selector in neutral when stopped at the lights.

But in an auto ....you put your selector in neutral when stopped at the lights.
I don't know too many people who do this... I actually think it is safer left in gear personally.

I don't know too many people who do this... I actually think it is safer left in gear personally.

Agreed. I doubt you would notice the difference. I remember with my old auto TF it would crawl back like a manual (in drive) on slight inclines while waiting at the lights, indicating that there isn't much torque loading.

I don't know too many people who do this... I actually think it is safer left in gear personally.

Why would it be safer? If you have your car in drive with only your foot brake holding it back if you get distracted and take your foot off then you will surge forward...try it at a busy pedestrian crossing.

It is a personal preference thing ....but if you can get your driving safer why not try it.

Another thing with autos is if you are going down a long steep incline like crossing sections of the Great Dividing Range then knock your transmission into 2nd and let the trannie add greater braking ...then you won't run out of brakes at the end of the hill.

Some autos will go into neutral when you are stopped at the lights anyway (foot on brake + no speed)

Why would it be safer? If you have your car in drive with only your foot brake holding it back if you get distracted and take your foot off then you will surge forward...try it at a busy pedestrian crossing..
I have prevented being hit once in the rear as a last second reaction when someone has come sliding towards me, i've looked up seen it and moved forward enough for them to stop and not hit me. I have been driving for nearly 14 years and I cant say i have been distracted enough to take my foot off the brake when I am sitting at lights or pedestrian crossings etc... I think you are assuming a little, I know what happens when you take your foot off the brake.


It is a personal preference thing ....but if you can get your driving safer why not try it..
I agree 100% about the personal preference thing, but I guess we are going to disagree on the safety aspect ;) much of a muchness IMO


Another thing with autos is if you are going down a long steep incline like crossing sections of the Great Dividing Range then knock your transmission into 2nd and let the trannie add greater braking ...then you won't run out of brakes at the end of the hill.
I think a combination of both is ok but you dont want to cook either trans/diff and brakes by just using one or the other predominantly... especially for long stretches of downwards incline. I know using 2nd in my 3.0L Auto wouldn't appreciate it too much for too long.

.....If you were driving an auto, when you would approach a hill, and it needs more torque, it would simply shift down smoothly with no hesitation, when required. In a manual, you would be changing gearsmore often, just to keep the car going, hence taking some of the fun away while your in cruise mode (relaxing at 100kph) Thats why its got a higher ratio, make it easier to drive with, and make it more driver friendly at the end of the day.....

My understanding was that if the manual was revving higher, it would be closer to the peak of the torque so changeing gears on a hill would be unnessacery. i drive a manual diahatsu terios for work sometimes, and i swear that thing sounds like its near redline at 100, and becuase of this, driving up steeper hills you dont need to change gears, where when i drive one of the auto cars, like the commo/falc/camry they need to kick back once or twice to make it

Why would it be safer? If you have your car in drive with only your foot brake holding it back if you get distracted and take your foot off then you will surge forward...try it at a busy pedestrian crossing.

It is a personal preference thing ....but if you can get your driving safer why not try it.

Another thing with autos is if you are going down a long steep incline like crossing sections of the Great Dividing Range then knock your transmission into 2nd and let the trannie add greater braking ...then you won't run out of brakes at the end of the hill.


its safer to leave ur car in gear at lights, just in the rare case u need to take off. i always leave my 5sp in gear foot on the clutch n i neva 'accidently' taken my foot off. plus autos dont surge when u take ur foot off the brake pedal :nuts: not like my car at 4000rpm and a dropped clutch :D

=) the beauty of manuals is the inertia of the engine means it takes a steeper hill for the car to speed up, unlike autos which require you to break or put into a lower gear. lol

yay for manual :D i had to say all that cos i love manual :bowrofl:

when i was given driving lessons i was highly encouraged to apply the hand brake when sitting at the lights especially if i was first off in case i was ever rear ended..

i was also praised by the driving instructors for doing this while having my driving test.. rarely do it now that i have my license.. but if i know im going to have to wait a fair while, like just got a red light, ill let the car idle in neutral and if first off when the lights going the other way go orange, shift into drive or if i am 5 or 6 cars back, when the light goes green ill shift into drive.. dont know why i do it.. just do.. the car feels as though its idling smoother aswell.. might just be all crap, but its just one of those habbits..

i definately agree that manuals should be kept out of gear at the lights. for starters holding your clutch in that much is going to destroy your pressure plate and throwout bearing (well at least one of them). secondly i think its extremely unsafe being on the verge of flying into an intersection, or across the people walking in front of you. if some-one hits you from behind you jerk backwards, easing pressure off the clutch, and voila, your dead.

i definately agree that manuals should be kept out of gear at the lights. for starters holding your clutch in that much is going to destroy your pressure plate and throwout bearing (well at least one of them). secondly i think its extremely unsafe being on the verge of flying into an intersection, or across the people walking in front of you. if some-one hits you from behind you jerk backwards, easing pressure off the clutch, and voila, your dead.


roflmao mate, what r u driving? a twin turbo V10 diesel in a hyundai? if u get rammed from behind and ur foot slips off the clutch u will stall!