View Full Version : How To; Bypassing Throttle Body Coolant
GoTRICE
19-10-2005, 12:56 PM
Here we go, did this a fair while ago so memory might not be up to scratch. This is a fairly simple procedure. I have drawn over two large pics which are attached. PINK and RED display where the original hoses are connected to. GREEN is the outline of the finished product. Hopefully its obvious as there is alot of hoses running through there.
!!Make sure engine is cold, so you dont burn yourself with coolant!!
Needed; screwdriver, pliers, flatish bucket (escpecially if you've only got 10cm under your front bar :bowrofl:)
Step 1; grab bucket and place under bottom radiator hose. Disconnect bottom radiator hoses and allow about 2 litres?? or so to run into the bucket/tray. Reconnect the radiator hose.
This step runs all of coolant out the thermostat so you dont spill too much everywhere.
Step 2; disconnect shortest hose and remove from engine bay; an amount of coolant may run out of throttle body and thermostat. Disconnect longest hose from throttle body and loop over to the where the short hose has just been removed from the thermostat, connect it up.
very large pics;
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5973/showday1610050016hi.th.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/my.php?image=showday1610050016hi.jpg)
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4823/showday1610050031ac.th.jpg (http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=showday1610050031ac.jpg)
Step 3; refill radiator with used coolant/water mixture... top up with water.
Step 4; start car and check for leaks...give the transmission etc a quick hose down to remove corrosive coolant, and dont soak electrics with water, that'll **** your car up. Let your car idle a while before driving, give it a good 30minute drive, no need to thrash...
Notes; your car may idle at about 1500rpm, mine did too, your cars computer will reset itself with time. Your car will also take longer to warm up. Make sure you add a simple cai to this set up. I pissed of my windscreen washer bottle so i could run an 80mm cai.
I have a question; should i block up the open pipes to my throttle body or dont worry about it, just concerned as to whether it'll lean the car out mildly or doesn't this air run directly into the intake??
JELLMAG
19-10-2005, 02:15 PM
so what are the gains from this mod??
horsepower...
economy....
cons....
GoTRICE
19-10-2005, 02:33 PM
Horspower; not much very noticable though with cai, maybe 4kw.
Economy; definately improved after the ecu got used to running this way, i made extra 50km's per tank off it i think. Especially good on the highway. My sisters ks v6 chews petty over 115km/h where i sit on 130-140 and still get 7l/100 highway
Cons; have to let your car warm up longer, takes about 5minutes to warm up, i'd question this mod if you live in freezing conditions. This set up keeps the engine cooler hot days and during spirited driving etc
I'm very happy with it, i did this at the same time as cai.
JELLMAG
19-10-2005, 02:39 PM
i'd question this mod if you live in freezing conditions.
anyone else in VIC done this
because it get's cold here in winter
Cabernet Savignon
19-10-2005, 03:01 PM
thats really impressive fuel econ!!!! How does one go about it with an injected 2.6???
GoTRICE
19-10-2005, 04:01 PM
The 2.6 efi has the throttle body set up but of the top of my head cant remember where the thermostat is... if you could follow these hoses off the bottom of your throttle body and take a pic i'd like to have a look
[TUFFTR]
19-10-2005, 04:18 PM
so what are the gains from this mod??
horsepower...
economy....
cons....
how do i know you will do this!
HyperTF
19-10-2005, 04:38 PM
Your car will also take longer to warm up.
How so? :confused: the car will warm up at the same pace by friction, ignition and heat transfer within the engine, which in turn heats up the cooling system. The only thing that will take longer to warm up is the throttle body itself most likely given hot water will no longer be flowing through it, and even then it should stabilise once radiant and transfered heat settles in.
I have bypassed mine on my third gen about 6-8 months ago and I know that the throttle body is now cooler to touch than it used to be... the hot cooling system fluid (:roll: ) was heating the TB quite a lot during normal running conditions. Bypassing it has surely got to have a microscopic effect on CAI especially as the cold air coming in will be cooling the TB aswell.
Maybe not so much of a massive gain, but it all adds up with other mods.
Madmagna
19-10-2005, 05:10 PM
:stoopid:
The engine will take no longer to warm up, I did this to my original Verada about 7 years ago.
In my current car, I have used Devcon to block the passage used by the valve area still allowing the ISC to function. This prevents a high idle when cold.
The only difference with having no water v's water flowing is that the idle will take some time to drop down to the warm idle speed.
The reason this function is enabled is to allow better and smoother cold running as your public jo will not understand the lower cold idle.
In the 4cyl, the thermostat has no bearing at all, the pipes are still on the TB and you simply have to ensure that you loop one to the fitting on the other (on the engine not the TB) and that you have no leaks.
Also most important, inlike the above pics ensure you do not have a kink in the hose where the bend is as this will create a weak spot where the hose is over flexed and can cause it to blow thus no more engine if you do not notice it. Because you loose the coolant, at first the temp guage will rise then it will drop as the temp sensor location will not keep the heat from the engine block/head
GoTRICE
19-10-2005, 05:53 PM
Also most important, inlike the above pics ensure you do not have a kink in the hose where the bend is as this will create a weak spot where the hose is over flexed and can cause it to blow thus no more engine if you do not notice it.
Are you saying there is a kink, i wouldnt have known there result but i sure as hell made sure there was no kink...
[TUFFTR]
19-10-2005, 05:55 PM
could of meant 1st picture top right...
GoTRICE
19-10-2005, 06:18 PM
thats electrical wiring, he was talking about what would **** up if, split hose and loss of coolant im led to believe; hi ho hi ho off to work i go....
HyperTF
19-10-2005, 06:43 PM
Are you saying there is a kink, i wouldnt have known there result but i sure as hell made sure there was no kink...
Could have been a typo... he might have meant "unlike"
I actually used a shaped heater hose from a Laser which had bends molded into the pipe... which worked great.
magnus
19-10-2005, 07:52 PM
the hoses your bypasing control the cold idle ....so all your doing is making the wax pallet stay cold so thats why the idle stays high..this mod will do nothing to your motor that makes more power....as its more like a choke ..all the water does is heat up the wax the wax valve is open when cold and closes when hot this is why you need a thermostate. when its open it lets air by pass the butterfly = high idle when hot it closes and air stops bypasing = idle goes down ...so all up i can not see why you waist your time bypasing it ..........
HyperTF
19-10-2005, 07:55 PM
:roll: *moves aside for expert* lol
magnus
19-10-2005, 08:08 PM
:roll: *moves aside for expert* lol
been a efi tech for a few years i should know how modern motors work
HyperTF
19-10-2005, 08:20 PM
been a efi tech for a few years i should know how modern motors work
Yeah I remember all your "Question Time" threads when you started letting us know. :bowdown: lol :P
At least knowing what you do, you wouldn't fall for any gimmicks I suppose like this one
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21786 :P
Just teasing...
GoTRICE
19-10-2005, 11:22 PM
whats temperature coolant circulate at?? i can tell you high enough to heat intake air significantly...or burn you 30 minutes after turning off the engine
M4DDOG
20-10-2005, 01:10 AM
the hoses your bypasing control the cold idle ....so all your doing is making the wax pallet stay cold so thats why the idle stays high..this mod will do nothing to your motor that makes more power....as its more like a choke ..all the water does is heat up the wax the wax valve is open when cold and closes when hot this is why you need a thermostate. when its open it lets air by pass the butterfly = high idle when hot it closes and air stops bypasing = idle goes down ...so all up i can not see why you waist your time bypasing it ..........
This was my understanding also that my mechanic told me, because i had a really high constant idle, which fluctuated(sp.?), which was caused by the wax pellet not closing. So if the wax pellet doesn't close with this mod, i can see idle being quite high, unless my ISC was stuffed as well. Replaced the whole throttle body and it works now, not sure if i wanna attempt this bypass or not, i know of 2 people who have done who have had similar problems that i had with high idle.
Barry
20-10-2005, 01:07 PM
the hoses your bypasing control the cold idle ....so all your doing is making the wax pallet stay cold so thats why the idle stays high..this mod will do nothing to your motor that makes more power....as its more like a choke ..all the water does is heat up the wax the wax valve is open when cold and closes when hot this is why you need a thermostate. when its open it lets air by pass the butterfly = high idle when hot it closes and air stops bypasing = idle goes down ...so all up i can not see why you waist your time bypasing it ..........
I agree. I found a better way is to use one of the new ceramic TB gaskets in place of the standard one. It effectively isolates the TB from the inlet manifold, allowing the TB to reach correct idle sooner, and keeping the manifold cooler. Fits easily, no modifications reqd, no messing around with coolant or hose (risking poss engine damage ), looks original. WMCISay
Cheers Barry
[TUFFTR]
26-04-2006, 06:14 PM
Just did this now, But probably wont get a chance to drive this for a while...
Where can i get this ceramic Gasket from?
ADZA27
26-04-2006, 07:02 PM
Horspower; not much very noticable though with cai, maybe 4kw.
Economy; definately improved after the ecu got used to running this way, i made extra 50km's per tank off it i think. Especially good on the highway. My sisters ks v6 chews petty over 115km/h where i sit on 130-140 and still get 7l/100 highway
Cons; have to let your car warm up longer, takes about 5minutes to warm up, i'd question this mod if you live in freezing conditions. This set up keeps the engine cooler hot days and during spirited driving etc
I'm very happy with it, i did this at the same time as cai.
Dude, i did this recently when i had the 1 mount on the T/B broken
so i had to do exactly this on my v6 till i could replace it!
the car ran like a **** **** :rant: mind u i had no CAI...
ever heard of that?
apparantely those two hoses are for the T/B to recognise the temp of the motor...?
so i definately ain't doing this again!
[TUFFTR]
26-04-2006, 07:03 PM
Dude, i did this recently when i had the 1 mount on the T/B broken
so i had to do exactly this on my v6 till i could replace it!
the car ran like a **** **** :rant: mind u i had no CAI...
ever heard of that?
apparantely those two hoses are for the T/B to recognise the temp of the motor...?
so i definately ain't doing this again!
Great!!
well i havent started the car yet (long story) so when i do tomorrow i dont want this to happen...I have the CAI so i hope this works well....
Cant be bothered putting the other hose back in:P
CanberraVR-X
26-04-2006, 07:08 PM
Why would you bother?
Silly mod.
MadMax
27-04-2006, 04:15 AM
The reason the engine starts at 1500 rpm is that a cold engine has inefficient combustion and excessive pollution of unburnt hydrocarbons. The water heating on the TB is there to shut off the air bypass that raises the idle when cold. Bypassing will just keep the idle high until engine heat reaches the TB by conduction to close the air bypass. The effect on fuel conbsumption will be, if anything, negative. I've never seen the need for CAI as the standard setup sucks outside air from under the right fender. Mind you, the standard setup looks very restrictive and a better air filter in the standard box might be the go.
Mind you, the ambient air temperature has a big bearing on engine output - compare engine performance on a 15 degree day with that on a 40 degree day. I might just make my own CAI - air sucking throught a BIG box full of ice!! :badgrin:
[TUFFTR]
27-04-2006, 06:41 AM
The reason the engine starts at 1500 rpm is that a cold engine has inefficient combustion and excessive pollution of unburnt hydrocarbons. The water heating on the TB is there to shut off the air bypass that raises the idle when cold. Bypassing will just keep the idle high until engine heat reaches the TB by conduction to close the air bypass. The effect on fuel conbsumption will be, if anything, negative. I've never seen the need for CAI as the standard setup sucks outside air from under the right fender. Mind you, the standard setup looks very restrictive and a better air filter in the standard box might be the go.
Mind you, the ambient air temperature has a big bearing on engine output - compare engine performance on a 15 degree day with that on a 40 degree day. I might just make my own CAI - air sucking throught a BIG box full of ice!! :badgrin:
Coulda fooled me, looks like its trying to get air magically from over the top headlight somewhere:nuts:
Ill try this first then ill have an opinion on it:D
MadMax
27-04-2006, 10:02 AM
TS sucks air from the headlight area? Let me go and have a look!!:badgrin:
Guess I was wrong - the tube goes all the way to the furthest corner of the car, next to the battery, right behind the headlight! Looks very restrictive to me.
Try the "box full of ice" trick and let us know how it works. It was tried on F1 cars some time ago, so it's NOT my idea - don't blame me if you go through a fortune in ice!
[TUFFTR]
27-04-2006, 01:48 PM
Yeah very restrictive which is why i ran a CAI, even if it does nothing it at least looks better:)
Just took it for a short run now, idle seems a tad higher, but only by a few hundred Rev's and response is awesome now!
Oh btw, i took the plenium off the car and cleaned it with Tb cleaner and a bottle brush.....quite a bit of oil in that thing.......
but from that little run the felt alright, no complaints here
oh, and GoTRICE, you said that about 2 litres came out? I only had about 250Ml come out.....
GoTRICE
27-04-2006, 03:11 PM
']Just took it for a short run now, idle seems a tad higher, but only by a few hundred Rev's and response is awesome now!
Oh btw, i took the plenium off the car and cleaned it with Tb cleaner and a bottle brush.....quite a bit of oil in that thing.......
but from that little run the felt alright, no complaints here
oh, and GoTRICE, you said that about 2 litres came out? I only had about 250Ml come out.....
hahahaha nah i pretty sure i meant i emptied 2 litres out of the radiadtor hoses let the coolant in the t/b go everywhere. I bet your idle will settle down in about 2 weeks and yes i can only attribute that to ecu....
I just wrote how to do it in no way should it cause conditions like the afore mentioned; just removed a factory precaution really and it dropped the heat at the t/b drastically, cant remember but i think mal aka mad magna has had it such for years; mines still fine.
ITs your car u do what you want.
edit* yes silly mod i'd rather have my intake air up the extra 30 deg. no0b
magnus
01-05-2006, 06:53 AM
whats temperature coolant circulate at?? i can tell you high enough to heat intake air significantly...or burn you 30 minutes after turning off the engine
whats water in the engine for?
GoTRICE
01-05-2006, 08:58 AM
whats water in the enging for?
of course you know it's there to cool the engine from the heat created by the friction of the moving parts in the engine; especially the piston rings rubbing against the cylinder walls.
This is unnecessary in the throttle body tell me why no race cars run such a set up? I know our uni car doesn't
M4DDOG
01-05-2006, 12:14 PM
The reason the engine starts at 1500 rpm is that a cold engine has inefficient combustion and excessive pollution of unburnt hydrocarbons. The water heating on the TB is there to shut off the air bypass that raises the idle when cold. Bypassing will just keep the idle high until engine heat reaches the TB by conduction to close the air bypass. The effect on fuel conbsumption will be, if anything, negative.
Exactly!
I dont know if it will help with performance while driving, but idle will be higher. Fuel consumption will be affected negatively at idle, but also dont know about whilst driving.
GoTRICE
01-05-2006, 12:32 PM
Exactly!
I dont know if it will help with performance while driving, but idle will be higher. Fuel consumption will be affected negatively at idle, but also dont know about whilst driving.
mine drives fine and it more than cancels out with the colder intake air after it has warmed up; my efficiency is better... do it if ya want too.
magnus
01-05-2006, 03:53 PM
of course you know it's there to cool the engine from the heat created by the friction of the moving parts in the engine; especially the piston rings rubbing against the cylinder walls.
This is unnecessary in the throttle body tell me why no race cars run such a set up? I know our uni car doesn't
if you measure the temp of the tb with water after a hour of driving and then measure the temp of the tb without water, the one with water would be cooler
of course you know it's there to cool the engine from the heat created by the friction of the moving parts in the engine; especially the piston rings rubbing against the cylinder walls.
This is unnecessary in the throttle body tell me why no race cars run such a set up? I know our uni car doesn't you should have little friction that causes excessive heat, thats why an engine has oil to reduce friction, coolant is there to remove the heat that is generated by combustion.
GoTRICE
01-05-2006, 06:41 PM
if you measure the temp of the tb with water after a hour of driving and then measure the temp of the tb without water, the one with water would be cooler
nah i cant justify that mate; i could never put my hand on the t/b or i'd get burnt once it was warm; then on a coldish night up mountain about 17* (hehehe brisbane) it was the same warmth to touch as the airbox, im pretty sure the set up is just for cold start.
Thanks jake i always like learning; the oil doesn't greatly touch the cylinder walls therefore wouldnt the friction cause a large amount of heat.... yeah combustion would be the worst though
nah i cant justify that mate; i could never put my hand on the t/b or i'd get burnt once it was warm; then on a coldish night up mountain about 17* (hehehe brisbane) it was the same warmth to touch as the airbox, im pretty sure the set up is just for cold start.
Thanks jake i always like learning; the oil doesn't greatly touch the cylinder walls therefore wouldnt the friction cause a large amount of heat.... yeah combustion would be the worst though
you would be amazed at how much oil gets onto the cylinder walls, thats why on the bottom ring groove for the oil control/scraper ring on the piston you will notice that there are holes, in the piston to allow the oil to return.
also if you like learning do a bit of research and find out how high combustion temperatures are:)
GoTRICE
01-05-2006, 09:07 PM
you would be amazed at how much oil gets onto the cylinder walls, thats why on the bottom ring groove for the oil control/scraper ring on the piston you will notice that there are holes, in the piston to allow the oil to return.
also if you like learning do a bit of research and find out how high combustion temperatures are:)
is it in excess or are those the extractors of 400 degrees?? My brain is saying over 1000; i've read every page on auto on howstuff works but that was over a year ago and a big effort. I think oil temp sits around 140 for non cooled ~100 for cooled....
Killbilly
02-05-2006, 06:19 AM
I bypassed mine. Left it for a few weeks. No difference, so I put it back.
Just my experience.
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