Hi guys,

There is a rumour going round both LS1 and FFAU that the 380VRX got a shocking review up against the VZ SV6 and BF XR6 - here's the exert:


The latest issue of WHEELS arrived today and there’s a few reviews of interest. First is the first drive of the BF and the next is a comparo between the BF XR6, VZ SV6 and the 380 VRX. For those who can’t be bothered reading through everything I’m going to say, put simply, the BF thrashes both and the 380 appears to be a huge disappointment.
Author: Nathan Ponchard.
Styling:
"First impressions don’t bode well. Outwardly the 380 VRX resembles Mitsubishi’s take on a Camry… American-esque blandness and bulbous behind."
They give the SV6 the OK, nothing flash but it’s far from ugly, and they describe the BF as remaining "universally attractive and unisexually appealing"
Inside:
"Slide into the 380 driver’s seat and initial disappointment prevails again. The steering wheel is unattractive…" While they describe the dash top as "funky" the plastic is "hard and doesn’t match any of the other equally hard interior plastics." They go on to say that the speakers look cheap and there’s no "surprise-and-delight features." While they’re on bagging out the 380, they mention that the air-vents can’t be turned off, the steering wheel can’t be adjusted for reach, p/window buttons and stalks are from the Lancer.
"The Commodore’s controls are actually more tactile, clunky ventilation dials apart, while the Falcon interior is in another league again. The Ford’s classy ambience and impressive attention to detail make the Holden’s cabin look dated and flair free."
Steering and ride:
The 380’s steering "impresses for both its accuracy and well-weighted progressiveness when turning away from straight ahead." "For such a big front-driver, the 380 displays excellent poise and even feels noticeably more wieldy than the decent-handling Magna." They praise the refinement and ride quality along with the seats. It’s remains competitive with the "class leading" BF while being well ahead of the VZ. "The Falcon has a firmer ride than the 380, but it’s impressively damped, has better body control, and is far more polished than the stiff Commodore." The only negative with the Falcon is the steering which is "too sensitive in it’s off-centre response" Nothing new with the VZ, it’s acceptable but not class leading.
Engine and transmission:
The Commodores 3.6L and 5-speed auto are OK, although behind the BFs. "The BF six feels smoother, sounds sweeter and mates superbly with the virtually flawless (optional) transmission." The 380’s V6 wasn’t bad either, although nothing to get excited about.
They go on to say that the Falcon has the best rear seat and the most useable interior room. The Falcon is again praised for having the largest boot.
In closing, the Falcon wins easily and they even suggest that it warrants a genuine comparison with European sedans worth several times more.
Falcon XR6: 4.5/5 stars
380 VRX: 3.5/5
Commodore SV6: 2.5/5
Fuel:
XR6: 13.2L per 100km
380: 13.5L per 100km
SV6: 13.0L per 100km

Performance times
XR6: 7.2 seconds and 15.3 @ 151km/h
380: 8.5 seconds and 16.2 @142km/h
SV6: 7.7 seconds and 15.6 @ 149km/h

Ill have to read it for myself when it comes out tomorrow - I'm hoping it's not as bad as that :(


Update - 26/10 - What Wheels actually says

I've just finished reading the actual wheels article and its more positive to the 380 than what we initially thought. Wooden spoon goes to the Commodore.

I guess whoever wrote the exert of the article before the magazine came out that I originally posted picked up mainly on the negatives.



- Turn the VRX's ignition key however and the 380s positive aspects kick into life... when applying lock, the steering's crisp feel and measured eagerness makes the 380 a confidence-inspiring car to drive - dampered only moderately by audible rack rattle and sudden kickback over sharp edges

-For such a big front driver, the 380 displays excellent poise and even feels noticebly more wieldy than the decent handling Magna

-Best of all, are Mitsubishi's ride quality and refinement. Despite the VRX's sports suspension, it's ride is supple yet disciplined. For a sporty sedan, the VRX is wonderfully confortable and relaxing - a feeling heighted by its excellent, deeply bolstered seats and generally hushed road noise.

-The 380 makes its most substantial gains on Magna in cabin space however. It's now almost as roomy as Falcon, with superior rear seat room to commodore. All up, rear seat accomodation just falls shy of Falcon's excellent fare.

-The 380 is impressive in all areas we expected - seating, space, refinement, body strength, dynamics and drivetrain smoothness.. but is dragged down by its downmarket cabin, plastics, a lack of attention to interior detail.

Final Scores:

BF Falcon XR6
4.5/5
For: BF Falcon clearly best local Ford ever - high class, fun, great value
Against: Steering response could be more progressive, side airbags extra

Holden Commodore Sv6
2.5/5
For: Feisty engine/gearbox team, sharp turn in, handsome styling, room
Against: Engine noise, steering on-cetre vagueness, unrefined ride quality

Mitsubishi 380 VRX
3.5/5
For:Roomy and comfy cabin, great ride quality, refinement, handling, value
Against: Hard, mismatched plastics, bland styling, ugly tilt only steeringwheel.

Before everyone get's excited, the quote above is from a Ford fans point of view and it's better that you get the actual magazine due on sale tommorow before completely bagging out the comparison. I was in a rush when I typed it up so it's not completely conclusive.

BTW: It's not a rumour, I've got the issue in front of me and have had so since Monday.

Right, well it's going round on 3 forums now.

Do you both know each other?

I think PaulST is a mod on Ford Australia Forums, which got the post lifted to LS1AU, which got the post to FFAU, and now it's here?

Do you both know each other?
Do now, Hi Dave. :D

Yep Dave, that's what happened. I was about to post in regards to the 380's fleet pricing and saw what I'd typed up. :)

I don't care what magazines have to say.

If I'm interested in one...I'll go drive one and decide for myself.

I've never seen wheels be nice to mitsu anyway...I never expected them to say nice things about it

I've never seen wheels be nice to mitsu anyway...I never expected them to say nice things about it
It won WHEELS' Car of the Year back in 1996 or so. The latest issue came with a extra magazine dedicated to the 380 so they're keen on people knowing about it.

it doesnt sound that bad at all actually.. sure they are pointing out a few flaws in the interior, the exact same ones they pointed out in their first review of the car, yet they praise the handling... a car magazine wont praise a car in one issue, then in the next issue bag it, so dont fret people. These quotes where taken from a ford fan, and are likely to be out of context. Wait till you read the ACTUAL review and then make up your mind

Who gives a toss about wheels.... Wait till Motor compares it.......

Who gives a toss about wheels.... Wait till Motor compares it.......
:stoopid: at least they should get some better times out of her!

if mitsubishi pays wheels... of course they will put an extra mag about a mitsubishi product in there. pay somebody enough and they will do anything.....*cough*ford*cough*

if mitsubishi pays wheels... of course they will put an extra mag about a mitsubishi product in there. pay somebody enough and they will do anything.....*cough*ford*cough*

No SHIAT!!!

apparently Ford payed wheels to get the Tertitory as the "Car of the year" for this year and i personally believe the Territory is not that good at all, definitely not "car of the year" material!

havent even seen a 380 on the road yet but..

im over the 380 already :doubt:

Wheels will heap it on any car other than a Ford... They reviewed the Alloytec engined Commordore Exec a few months ago, and the reviewer complained that the engine was loud at high revs...

What do these guys honestly expect?

I say just ignore them, they're obviously biased and the articles are written before the car's been tested anyway...

8.5secs 0-100??? another example of Wheels not knowing how to launch a FWD car!!! The Auto is meant to be doing 0-100 in 7.8 at least!!!!

Who gives a toss about wheels.... Wait till Motor compares it.......

MickeyT will love you :P

Wheels will heap it on any car other than a Ford... They reviewed the Alloytec engined Commordore Exec a few months ago, and the reviewer complained that the engine was loud at high revs...

What do these guys honestly expect?

I say just ignore them, they're obviously biased and the articles are written before the car's been tested anyway...

in fairness, they didnt mean that it was loud like all engines are at loud revs, they meant it was louder then most other cars are at high revs, which it defently is. Harsh too

Who gives a toss about wheels.... Wait till Motor compares it.......
Bugger Both of them..

Fly Jeremy Clarkson and the Top Gear Crew over here to review it... I wanna see a Manual 380 VRX have the Wheels Driven off it... Then they can write the review..

Bugger Both of them..

Fly Jeremy Clarkson and the Top Gear Crew over here to review it... I wanna see a Manual 380 VRX have the Wheels Driven off it... Then they can write the review..

amen :bowrofl:

Boy that just really shows they know stuff all about launching cars, how laughable is that time they pulled, and to think bogans actually believe it?? :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl:

Too bad when they get out on the street and get whoop assed, and then think back to the magazines times and say "but I should have beaten that 380 easily??? wtf is going on, that 380 must have been a turbo charged one, oh that's why"

Which is funny cause that is what I get all the time, people hang there heads out the window and ask "is it turboed?" and I say NO, its a 3l naturally aspirated, to which they look funny at ya, no wonder when wheels and motor put up lies about 0-100 times and quarter mile times.

I could make a V8 commodore run 20 second quarter mile times, I just dont have to drive it hard, and then make a kia rio run 15s by thrashing it, and then say in my review "the commodores and fords v8s are slow pos, the kia rio thrashed em by 5 seconds over the quarter cause it just launches and goes"

Yeah I am exagerating but you get the point.

I was looking over old issues of wheels and motor, both of the ralliart magna, from both reviews there was nearly an entire second difference over the quarter mile time from the two magazines.
And these times are taken from that equipment that hangs off the car, how accurate is that stuff.
They really should run the cars down a drag strip and get real times.

The worst thing this club ever did was a 380 section in the forums. Everyday the forums are peppered by every man and his dog defending the car tooth and nail.....so far I havent even heard from an owner.......Dead set some of you guys should attach your posts to your resume and send it to mitsu, you have to have a good chance at getting a job!
I originally purchased my verada because it represented good value for money (thank you to mitsu's horrible resale rep) and thats that. And I know this might come as a shock, but I really dont think my verada is the BEST car in the world. I in fact own two mitsubishis and enjoy driving them both, but its not my religion! I used to enjoy chatting to other car enthusiasts in the club, however the die hard mitsubishi fans are just being ignorant.

We should of taken the MM05 for a cruise to a tattoo shop so you could all have the mitsu symbol put on your foreheads.

The worst thing this club ever did was a 380 section in the forums.
I am trying to work out whether your whole post is tongue in cheek or what. We created the 380 section to keep the umpteen threads that were being created in one place, instead of swamping the other sections. Changing our name as a 'club' was pointless and given the 380 was the Magna replacement it was bound to be talked about a lot.

Yeah so since you made the point would you care to explain what your idea for an alternative idea would have been?

We should of taken the MM05 for a cruise to a tattoo shop so you could all have the mitsu symbol put on your foreheads.
OMG We can get that done??? :shock:

We should of taken the MM05 for a cruise to a tattoo shop so you could all have the mitsu symbol put on your foreheads.

i want one too lol

btw no one is saying magnas and veradas are the best cars in the world, and everyone has their own opinion, whats good to them might not be good to you.

We are not defending the 380 at all..
We just completely disagree to how Motor and Wheels review cars..
Wheels and Motor Test Cars Conservatively..Meaning they don't drive it till something Breaks unlike Top Gear..

I don't know about you, but if I had a new 380 VRX I can Garauntee I would be hitting 5500Rpm before I changed up and Launching it with aggression.. Not Pampering it like Wheels and Motor do..
Most of the Wheels and Motor Magazines give the Max power and Max Torque Figures at 5500rpm or 5200rpm cause they dont rev it any harder !!!

I wanna see Peak Figures like 187kw @6700rpm and 390nm of Torque at 6000Rpm the moment I dumped the Clutch or the Moment I released the Hand brake..

Conservative Figures are for GrandParents..
The Car Enthusiast wants to know how hard they can launch and What times it can get..
and realistic Fuel Consumption... I mean I am yet to meet a 3rd Gen Magna Owner who can get 6.6 litres per 100k's at 110k's an hour...

The comparison seems somewhat unfair given that Holden and Ford are represented by updated models that have been on the market for around 4 years. Naturally a brand new model will have a few teething problems.

bahaha im waiting for someone to take it to the track, i remember the te's being in the 16's yet stock -15.1 for the quarter and tl's quoted around 16 flat that do 15.3 i also remember them testing out the gtvi verada in 41* heat and it ran a 16.2

Jared's tippy tj has run a 15.4 nearly all of them have run a second faster than what wheels quoted.

Personally the executives on hubby look **** just like the magnas did with boat ride height, the vrx now that is sexy

i must agree with the steering wheel comment tho, its pretty ugly

and saying that BF's compare with euro models? i so gotta sit in a BF when it comes out coz when i sat in a couple of BA's (BA, XR6T, XR8) there was no way in hell it was up with euro's! thats a pretty big call

either way i would prefer to take all 3 out for a test drive one day, make my own decision

oh and im not a diehard mitsu fan, but out of the 3 cars (commo, falcon and magna) magna represented the best buy, sure no RWD but im not out to be a street racer and pull full sick burnouts anyways, so yes im biased because i think my magna of the year was the better car, hence why i own one

We are not defending the 380 at all..
We just completely disagree to how Motor and Wheels review cars..
Wheels and Motor Test Cars Conservatively..Meaning they don't drive it till something Breaks unlike Top Gear..

I don't know about you, but if I had a new 380 VRX I can Garauntee I would be hitting 5500Rpm before I changed up and Launching it with aggression.. Not Pampering it like Wheels and Motor do..
Most of the Wheels and Motor Magazines give the Max power and Max Torque Figures at 5500rpm or 5200rpm cause they dont rev it any harder !!!

I wanna see Peak Figures like 187kw @6700rpm and 390nm of Torque at 6000Rpm the moment I dumped the Clutch or the Moment I released the Hand brake..

Conservative Figures are for GrandParents..
The Car Enthusiast wants to know how hard they can launch and What times it can get..
and realistic Fuel Consumption... I mean I am yet to meet a 3rd Gen Magna Owner who can get 6.6 litres per 100k's at 110k's an hour...

Hi all first post, with regards to the vehicles reviewed, they are in no way performance cars. The great majority of these models will be lucky to see anything over 4500rpm in there daily duties. Motoring mags are there as a guide at thats all, the performance figures may be conservative and thats because they are aimed at a certain demagrafic. Most will be fleet vehicles and mum and dad run abouts who only worry about nvh, fuel consumption, ride quality and practacality. I am in the market for either the bf xr6 or the 380, i haven't seen either car in the flesh yet and will reserve my opinion till i see and drive them.

Theyd be pretty smack on the money with the SV6 quarter mile time, because those cars are fairly slow for what theyre supposed to be.

No SHIAT!!!

apparently Ford payed wheels to get the Tertitory as the "Car of the year" for this year and i personally believe the Territory is not that good at all, definitely not "car of the year" material!
That's redicilious mate. Apparently I'm the queen of England...
WHEELS COTY comp is the most respected one in Australia and they wouldn't stoop to such low levels. Just have a read of the Territory's reviews. Don't try and start stupid rumours that you know aren't true...


They reviewed the Alloytec engined Commordore Exec a few months ago, and the reviewer complained that the engine was loud at high revs...
Well it does.

Wheels and Motor Test Cars Conservatively..Meaning they don't drive it till something Breaks unlike Top Gear..
uh... where'd you hear that? I worked with a chick from Ford that organised the media cars and she said they came back creaking and smoking.


The comparison seems somewhat unfair given that Holden and Ford are represented by updated models that have been on the market for around 4 years. Naturally a brand new model will have a few teething problems.
That's no excuse, infact the opposite. Being the newest model, the 380 should be the best. Traditionally, Ford and Holden leap frog each other with each new model, so it's a concern when a new model is no better than the competitions old models.

Wheels and Motor Test Cars Conservatively..Meaning they don't drive it till something Breaks unlike Top Gear..

obviously you have never watched the motor PCOTY videos or read the write ups.. they are constantly breaking cars! i dont think there has been a PCOTY or BFYB event yet where motor hasnt broken ATLEAST one car!

Hi all first post, with regards to the vehicles reviewed, they are in no way performance cars. The great majority of these models will be lucky to see anything over 4500rpm in there daily duties. Motoring mags are there as a guide at thats all, the performance figures may be conservative and thats because they are aimed at a certain demagrafic. Most will be fleet vehicles and mum and dad run abouts who only worry about nvh, fuel consumption, ride quality and practacality. I am in the market for either the bf xr6 or the 380, i haven't seen either car in the flesh yet and will reserve my opinion till i see and drive them.

THere are quite a few of us here to take it to redline, well not daily but fairly often, and if you drive on the street maany of the family v6's are been given quite a bit of stick at traffic light gps

Mitsubishi has the 380VRX doing a 15.4 for the quarter mile. So since Wheels hammers the **** out of cars, how could they only manage a 16.2?

Who says Mitsu's time of 15.4 is correct? It could have been a fluke one off in controlled conditions or they could be over estimating to make the 380 sound better. Who knows...Furthermore, it's rare that a magazine can beat or even match a manufactuers claim. There are so many other factors to take into consideration regarding accerlation testing, that 16.2 is probably what Wheels got at the time of the test hammering the crap out it. Maybe testing another day with different temps/humidity/driver or even example of the 380 could bring a different result.

As for the BA, it may have a 'quality look', but anybody who says the build quality, quality of materials used and fit and finish are better than an 380, let alone a 3rd gen Magna needs to take a closer look at them.

umm question.. of the people who are critising wheels over this, how many have actually READ the article? I just have, and i think they gave it a very fair and reasonable review. They said they actually quite like the car and only really complained about some "hard and mismatching interior plastics" and "bland exterior styling" which results in a lack of "flair" but otherwise they say its a very good car with very good handling, refinement and power and is also very roomy and comfortable. Its just that those few faults make the car, in their opinion, slightly behind that of the falcon. However they say its considerably better then the commodore.

So yeah, stop ya damn whinging :P it got a good review, just cos they think the ford is better doesnt mean they are total idiots who dont know how to compare cars :nuts:

So is the latest Wheels definitely out today? Last month their website was one week ahead of themselves and this month it's still advertising last months issue..... :nuts:

So is the latest Wheels definitely out today? Last month their website was one week ahead of themselves and this month it's still advertising last months issue..... :nuts:


well i just picked mine up from the newsagent today, so yes unless my newsagent is ahead of everyone for some reason

Who says Mitsu's time of 15.4 is correct? It could have been a fluke one off in controlled conditions or they could be over estimating to make the 380 sound better. Who knows...Furthermore, it's rare that a magazine can beat or even match a manufactuers claim. There are so many other factors to take into consideration regarding accerlation testing, that 16.2 is probably what Wheels got at the time of the test hammering the crap out it. Maybe testing another day with different temps/humidity/driver or even example of the 380 could bring a different result.
Since its so hard to match a manufacturers times, why do members on here in stock cars constantly beat the times posted by MMAL? And then thers Bain, who on his first run down the quarter, beat wheel's time for the XR6T by .7 of a second. Is anybody else noticing a discrepency here? Because if theyre hammering the car and still getting half to a full second slower times than they should be, somebody at Wheels need's to be shot.

Since its so hard to match a manufacturers times, why do members on here in stock cars constantly beat the times posted by MMAL? And then thers Bain, who on his first run down the quarter, beat wheel's time for the XR6T by .7 of a second. Is anybody else noticing a discrepency here? Because if theyre hammering the car and still getting half to a full second slower times than they should be, somebody at Wheels need's to be shot.

the magazines use something called a vbox to get their times which uses GPS tracking, unlike the drag strip where they use a sight to sight timing system, as a result the times which wheels and motor get on their cars is different to what you would get at the strip. Wheels and motor have explained the reasons behind this about a thousand times before in their magazines, perhaps if you actually bothered to read the magazines on a regular basis you would be in a better position to comment on how good/not good these guys are at testing cars.

also, once again if you had READ the article before commenting, you would have read where wheels say "the car we drove had only 700km on the clock and the engine felt quite tight and posted siginficantly slower time then last months launch cars"

and for the record, wheels recorded a 15.1 second pass in a manual 380 in last months magazine, suggesting you either didnt take this into consideration when making your comments, or you also didnt read that article either, which makes you seem very foolish to be so heavily criticising a magazine you havent read

The bottom line remains tho, wheels and motor are equally the most respected car magazines in australia for, in wheels case, over 50 years! They know more then you or i or anyone on this forum (with the exception of mickey t) do and i think they know a bit more about how to test cars. As for the suggestions that they take bribes thats a rediculous suggestion! how come they usually always come to the same conclusions that the RACQ and RACV come to when they test cars? and i seriously doubt the RACQ and RACV are taking bribes!

Most of the Wheels and Motor Magazines give the Max power and Max Torque Figures at 5500rpm or 5200rpm cause they dont rev it any harder !!!

I wanna see Peak Figures like 187kw @6700rpm and 390nm of Torque at 6000Rpm the moment I dumped the Clutch or the Moment I released the Hand brake..


thats so friggen ridiculous, on so many levels!! :disgusted

like, are you serious? or being sarcastic?

I don't know about you, but if I had a new 380 VRX I can Garauntee I would be hitting 5500Rpm before I changed up and Launching it with aggression.. Not Pampering it like Wheels and Motor do..
Most of the Wheels and Motor Magazines give the Max power and Max Torque Figures at 5500rpm or 5200rpm cause they dont rev it any harder !!!


Riiigghtt - you do realise that maximum power and torque occurs before redline right? and that by taking the car to a higher rpm past this theshold it's not giving you any performance gains?

As to the whole pampering theory, I have to disagree mate, and besides this, the same driver tested the 3 cars, so in theory, he should have driven those three cars the same way on the day - so using this hypothenuise, both the XR6 and the SV6 are faster than the GT on this day in this testing. Additionally, every engine and every car is different - why is it that some of the gen3 v8s go super fast and others are dogs when, for instance we examine the base model.

Im pretty sure I've seen a review where the Sv6 got in the high 6s for 0-100.

Most of the Wheels and Motor Magazines give the Max power and Max Torque Figures at 5500rpm or 5200rpm cause they dont rev it any harder !!!

I wanna see Peak Figures like 187kw @6700rpm and 390nm of Torque at 6000Rpm the moment I dumped the Clutch or the Moment I released the Hand brake..


i use to think you knew your sh!t magnat... i mean really that is the stupidist thing you have ever said.. The reason they give those figures at 5500rpm or whatever is because thats where the peak figures are produced! Max power and torque is rarely produced at redline you know! Also they quote those power figures direct from the manufacturer, they dont measure these themselfs.

That's redicilious mate. Apparently I'm the queen of England...
WHEELS COTY comp is the most respected one in Australia and they wouldn't stoop to such low levels. Just have a read of the Territory's reviews. Don't try and start stupid rumours that you know aren't true...


I agree that wheels being paid off is kinda silly, but wheels COTY respected, come on, they gave the hyundai excel car of the year - it mighta been the best selling car of the year but the only other cars you could even compare it to are daewoo matiz's and the like :(

Matthius

Mitsubishi has the 380VRX doing a 15.4 for the quarter mile. So since Wheels hammers the **** out of cars, how could they only manage a 16.2?

Mostly thats because their correviet gear isn't like the drags, it starts timing as soon as the car starts rolling whereas the drags only starts once the front tyre leaves the first trigger beam, motor did some tests and this works out to be on average .4 of a second differance, so to compare to a quarter mile time take around .4 of a second away. Meaning a quarter of 15.8 according to wheels, whats mitsis quote for an auto, 15.7 ? thats pretty close.

Matthius

I agree that wheels being paid off is kinda silly, but wheels COTY respected, come on, they gave the hyundai excel car of the year - it mighta been the best selling car of the year but the only other cars you could even compare it to are daewoo matiz's and the like :(

Matthius

i think someone is having a lend of you mate.. not only did wheels NEVER give the excel car of the year, they also hated the thing with a passion

Mostly thats because their correviet gear isn't like the drags, it starts timing as soon as the car starts rolling whereas the drags only starts once the front tyre leaves the first trigger beam, motor did some tests and this works out to be on average .4 of a second differance

yep thats what i was refering too before. GPS = more accurate, drag strip = less accurate as the car is already moving once it hits the first timing beam

you quote fuel consumption as follows:

Fuel:
XR6: 13.2L per 100km
380: 13.5L per 100km
SV6: 13.0L per 100km

Well if it helps you to understand how far out these figures are, we drove the 380 on a 700km trip and it averaged 8.3L/100km

Since its so hard to match a manufacturers times, why do members on here in stock cars constantly beat the times posted by MMAL? And then thers Bain, who on his first run down the quarter, beat wheel's time for the XR6T by .7 of a second. Is anybody else noticing a discrepency here? Because if theyre hammering the car and still getting half to a full second slower times than they should be, somebody at Wheels need's to be shot.

I think it's also because some AMC members for example would classify mods to the air filter, CAi, spark plugs, exhaust etc as still stock so sometimes (but not always) you are comparing 2 different cars. I would assume you would also have to wear an engine in a little bit before you are getting the best possible times out of it as well. In light of what has been said above, it would appear real-life traction problems in the FWD Magna are somewhat more concealed than their RWD counterparts in the times at dragstrips since it seems the car is on the move before it has hit the first timing beam perhaps giving the Magna more breathing space so to speak.

you quote fuel consumption as follows:

Fuel:
XR6: 13.2L per 100km
380: 13.5L per 100km
SV6: 13.0L per 100km

Well if it helps you to understand how far out these figures are, we drove the 380 on a 700km trip and it averaged 8.3L/100km

did you record that figure on the highway? if it was a 700km trip then i am assuming it was, if so then you need to realise how much less fuel a car uses on a highway then it does the rest of the time. For example my magna uses 7.8l/100 on the highway, yet uses 13.5 in the city

did you record that figure on the highway? if it was a 700km trip then i am assuming it was, if so then you need to realise how much less fuel a car uses on a highway then it does the rest of the time. For example my magna uses 7.8l/100 on the highway, yet uses 13.5 in the city

True. Also some cars respond quite a lot differently when thrashed so it is not unusual for there to be significant discrepencies between grandpa style driving and hoon style driving figures. For example, car X might average 12L per 100km and car Y might average 12.5L per 100km under normal driving. When thrashed, Car X might average 15L per 100km, whereas car Y (normally the bigger fuel guzzler) may average 14.5L per 100km.

True. Also some cars respond quite a lot differently when thrashed so it is not unusual for there to be significant discrepencies between grandpa style driving and hoon style driving figures. For example, car X might average 12L per 100km and car Y might average 12.5L per 100km under normal driving. When thrashed, Car X might average 15L per 100km, whereas car Y (normally the bigger fuel guzzler) may average 14.5L per 100km.

exactly right, my VS commodore recorded similar mileage to my TL when i drive them both sedately, but if i gave the VS a bit of a hard time it would try and marry the nearest petrol station, but it doesnt make too much of a difference at all to my TL

I agree that wheels being paid off is kinda silly, but wheels COTY respected, come on, they gave the hyundai excel car of the year - it mighta been the best selling car of the year but the only other cars you could even compare it to are daewoo matiz's and the like :(

Matthius

You're full of crap. They never gave it COTY.

Wheels COTY up to 2001 (http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/portal/alias__carpointau/tabID__6491/ArticleID__4497/DesktopDefault.aspx)

I was reading somewhere (not sure if this still the case) but some of the magazines test 0-100 times with 2 people in the car (ie driver + passenger) so maybe if they used that system ofcourse certain cars are going to better results than others - which might not be the case if it was just the driver. Naturally if one mag is testing with two occupants and the other is testing with one - there is going to be about 1 sec difference in some cases..

Also some of the less commercial magazines, launch the cars, while the more mainstream ones don't. I know that a fair whack of 0-100 figures posted for the wrx, evo etc are based on hard launches, where as they make no mention of doing this to test others.

And ofcourse a 380 with 700kms on the clock is going suck compared to one with say 5000kms on the clock.

I was reading somewhere (not sure if this still the case) but some of the magazines test 0-100 times with 2 people in the car (ie driver + passenger) so maybe if they used that system ofcourse certain cars are going to better results than others - which might not be the case if it was just the driver. Naturally if one mag is testing with two occupants and the other is testing with one - there is going to be about 1 sec difference in some cases..

Also some of the less commercial magazines, launch the cars, while the more mainstream ones don't. I know that a fair whack of 0-100 figures posted for the wrx, evo etc are based on hard launches, where as they make no mention of doing this to test others.

And ofcourse a 380 with 700kms on the clock is going suck compared to one with say 5000kms on the clock.

i know wheels atleast USE to always test their cars with two people in the car, not sure if they do. Also both motor and wheels always test their cars with a full tank of petrol, that can be as much as an extra 60-70kg of weight

If you don't buy a car just because someone else does'nt like it in some magazine, you're a fool. Who cares what he thinks, it comes down to individual taste.

not a fan of that full tank testing concept. i dont see how having a big fuel tank should be seen as a disadvantage. you need never fill up the latest 30L if you want and only use it for big trips.

also, sure individual comes into it a lot when choosing a car, but thats the last thing i do. i narrow down the field to several comparable cars, read lots of reviews, then when they are too similar to matter i leave it up to individual taste.

Who gives a toss about wheels.... Wait till Motor compares it.......

Amen to that!

In closing, the Falcon wins easily and they even suggest that it warrants a genuine comparison with European sedans worth several times more.

does no one comment on this

am i the only one who thinks that is a big call?

Update - What Wheels actually says

I've just finished reading the actual wheels article and its more positive to the 380 than what we initially thought. Wooden spoon goes to the Commodore.

I guess whoever wrote the exert of the article before the magazine came out that I originally posted picked up mainly on the negatives.



- Turn the VRX's ignition key however and the 380s positive aspects kick into life... when applying lock, the steering's crisp feel and measured eagerness makes the 380 a confidence-inspiring car to drive - dampered only moderately by audible rack rattle and sudden kickback over sharp edges

-For such a big front driver, the 380 displays excellent poise and even feels noticebly more wieldy than the decent handling Magna

-Best of all, are Mitsubishi's ride quality and refinement. Despite the VRX's sports suspension, it's ride is supple yet disciplined. For a sporty sedan, the VRX is wonderfully confortable and relaxing - a feeling heighted by its excellent, deeply bolstered seats and generally hushed road noise.

-The 380 makes its most substantial gains on Magna in cabin space however. It's now almost as roomy as Falcon, with superior rear seat room to commodore. All up, rear seat accomodation just falls shy of Falcon's excellent fare.

-The 380 is impressive in all areas we expected - seating, space, refinement, body strength, dynamics and drivetrain smoothness.. but is dragged down by its downmarket cabin, plastics, a lack of attention to interior detail.

Final Scores:

BF Falcon XR6
4.5/5
For: BF Falcon clearly best local Ford ever - high class, fun, great value
Against: Steering response could be more progressive, side airbags extra

Holden Commodore Sv6
2.5/5
For: Feisty engine/gearbox team, sharp turn in, handsome styling, room
Against: Engine noise, steering on-cetre vagueness, unrefined ride quality

Mitsubishi 380 VRX
3.5/5
For:Roomy and comfy cabin, great ride quality, refinement, handling, value
Against: Hard, mismatched plastics, bland styling, ugly tilt only steeringwheel.

Just read the article. Partly the reason why the 380 ran a slower 0-100 & 1/4 mile time (8.5 & 16.2) was because it only had like 500km on the clock and thats barely run in. Wait till it gets a few thousand Ks on the clock then we'd be able to see what times it can get :badgrin:

It would have been a fairer comparison if they had a 380 that had more Ks on the clock considering the issue before, they ran a 380 GT (also auto) that did 0-100 in 7.8 and 15.8 for the 1/4. That's a bit of a difference. As for the base model they got a 7.3 and 15.3 respectively and thats in a manual. I thought the gap between the lighter manual would have been greater against the heavier auto. Wait till one of us gets our hand one of them and I'm sure some of us can get better times!

All in all straight line speed isn't the be all and end all, it did get a good rapt, better than the SV6. And it sure inherited the sweet sounding engine / exhaust note from the 3.5 V6 and now sounding even better, outclassing the BAs and VZs in that department.

Will be interesting to see what times and reviews the 380 will get from Motor and AutoSpeed...

']does no one comment on this

am i the only one who thinks that is a big call?

Agreed matey,

My BS meter is going off its dial!

How can the 380 be accused of having 'bland' styling? I don't get that. If they're gonna say that then why don't they bag out the old school Commodore and Falcon styling? The Magna got bagged every year for the last 3 or so for being 'old'... why now doesn't commodore and falcon? IMO Commodore and Falcon do look old compared to the 380 even if they think it is bland.

8.5secs 0-100??? another example of Wheels not knowing how to launch a FWD car!!! The Auto is meant to be doing 0-100 in 7.8 at least!!!!

This is the thing Im talking about...the original wheels test with the evo 9 on the cover had 0-100 in 7.3

So they obviously just have no idea...and choose any stat they want based on which car they want to make look better (or who pays more)

How can the 380 be accused of having 'bland' styling? I don't get that. If they're gonna say that then why don't they bag out the old school Commodore and Falcon styling? The Magna got bagged every year for the last 3 or so for being 'old'... why now doesn't commodore and falcon? IMO Commodore and Falcon do look old compared to the 380 even if they think it is bland.

actually (once again if you READ the article) the commodore DID get bagged for being old and they said "it felt a generation behind the other two, which it is"

actually (once again if you READ the article) the commodore DID get bagged for being old and they said "it felt a generation behind the other two, which it is"

I don't have the magazine so I haven't read the article, but thanks for pointing that out. However, I still believe the Falcon (a nice looker though it is) also looks dated.

I don't have the magazine so I haven't read the article, but thanks for pointing that out. However, I still believe the Falcon (a nice looker though it is) also looks dated.

yeh besides the front and rear end, it still has the AU lines on the side profile.

yeah but it is true that the XR falcons have a pretty universally appealing design, and thats exactly what wheels said about it

yeah but it is true that the XR falcons have a pretty universally appealing design, and thats exactly what wheels said about it

Subjectively may be true for some. I certainly don't look twice when I see an XR6. Its so common. Whereas a TJ VRX for example still to this day pulls a lot of second looks. :cool:

Subjectively may be true for some. I certainly don't look twice when I see an XR6. Its so common. Whereas a TJ VRX for example still to this day pulls a lot of second looks. :cool:

i personally tend to agree, however when your driving in a convoy of an XR6, SV6 and VRX 380, i guess you would know which car gets the most looks. And they reckon the XR6 did

i personally tend to agree, however when your driving in a convoy of an XR6, SV6 and VRX 380, i guess you would know which car gets the most looks. And they reckon the XR6 did

I'd believe that. The new FPVs look nice tho.

I think it's also because some AMC members for example would classify mods to the air filter, CAi, spark plugs, exhaust etc as still stock so sometimes (but not always) you are comparing 2 different cars. I would assume you would also have to wear an engine in a little bit before you are getting the best possible times out of it as well. In light of what has been said above, it would appear real-life traction problems in the FWD Magna are somewhat more concealed than their RWD counterparts in the times at dragstrips since it seems the car is on the move before it has hit the first timing beam perhaps giving the Magna more breathing space so to speak.
Ill just let you know, Articuno was right in my times down the quarter.. The car had less than 3000km's on it, was bog stock with no CAI's or air filter changes and standard 98ron BP fuel, with all the insides in the car including the spare tyre.

Wheels and Motor use a different style of 1/4mile testing which makes most of their times .5seconds slower. One of the magazines explained it awhile ago.

Im just going to wait until we see a few people take the 380 down a quarter mile.. I cant see that happening for a long time yet.. Same with modding one.

I met and talked with Dave@RPW yesterday, modding 380's certainly isnt going to be easy...nor cheap when it's able to be done. There's lots of things that are going to make it quite hard for modders.

I met and talked with Dave@RPW yesterday, modding 380's certainly isnt going to be easy...nor cheap when it's able to be done. There's lots of things that are going to make it quite hard for modders.

not least of which is the EXTREEMLY tight engine bay which will make it difficult for even extractors to fit! Also theres apparently some tricky sensors or something in the stock manifolds that also makes them hard to replace??

oh well atleast its not as bad as the BOSS V8's in the falcons.. you have to remove the engine to be able to fix extractors!

not least of which is the EXTREEMLY tight engine bay which will make it difficult for even extractors to fit! Also theres apparently some tricky sensors or something in the stock manifolds that also makes them hard to replace??

oh well atleast its not as bad as the BOSS V8's in the falcons.. you have to remove the engine to be able to fix extractors!

Yep, 4 oxy sensors, two cats, the entire wiring system works on frequencies and not voltages, so the use of a Haltech or aftermarket ecu is almost ruled out as you'll need something that converts frequencies to voltages that will plug in to the car's wiring.

So there's a lot that needs to be developed before anything works. If any of these things aren't set up right the car will instantly go into limp home mode.

Edit: Im not sure if it's a bad or good thing to be honest. This is the way all cars will be going ...so we'd better just get used to it.

Aftermarket stuff will be available for sure later on...just that initially it won't be cheap.

Im just going to wait until we see a few people take the 380 down a quarter mile.. I cant see that happening for a long time yet.. Same with modding one.


should be soon... car rental places should have em soon..... lol

Yep, 4 oxy sensors, two cats, the entire wiring system works on frequencies and not voltages, so the use of a Haltech or aftermarket ecu is almost ruled out as you'll need something that converts frequencies to voltages that will plug in to the car's wiring.

So there's a lot that needs to be developed before anything works. If any of these things aren't set up right the car will instantly go into limp home mode.

Edit: Im not sure if it's a bad or good thing to be honest. This is the way all cars will be going ...so we'd better just get used to it.

Aftermarket stuff will be available for sure later on...just that initially it won't be cheap.


everytime a big company makes a product with tamper proof thingies on it, a person out there dedicates themselves to getting around it =)

If it uses the new CAN software.. Then i doubt anyone will be playing with anything as it will be a long time before Mitsu would release the software for it.

But i dont think they are as I havent read anything about it.

i just hope it doesnt lead to a whole raft of dodgy mods coming onto the market... :doubt:

everytime a big company makes a product with tamper proof thingies on it, a person out there dedicates themselves to getting around it =)

It's not made to be tamperproof...I never said that...

It's just new technology that people will have to work hard to get around.

It's not made to be tamperproof...I never said that...

It's just new technology that people will have to work hard to get around.

And if the Magna aftermarket scene is anything to go by, no one will probablly bother witht he 380 ECU.

Wel, I'd just like to say that the 380 represents an excellent alternative to the dreary old Foulcans and Common*****s. I mean, I really get bored of modified Commodore # 334987 tailgating me and passing me in some dangerous place, tired of seeing them everywhere!
But seriously, anyone who is in the market for a new car would be plain stupid to put any faith in magazine reviews, I would hope theyd drive them all and have a real think about it. Of course, simple bogans wil stay brand loyal, but the rest of the public should be smart enough to see past that. Real people make up their own minds.
We all know the motoring press in this country loves to kick the underdog, they started it waaay back in Chrysler's day, and when Mitsubishi bought Chrysler Australia out, it just naturally followed onto Mitsu,which is a shame, as Mitsu Australia dragged Ford and Holden, kicking and screaming, into producing higher quality cars, in fit and finish, quality control, refinement etc. Who has ALWAYS had the longest factory warranties in this country? Who REALLY stands behind their products? Mitsubishi.
Remember the fuss when Holden announced they were exporting Common*****s globally, how world class the Common***** was? Well, Mitsu Australia had been exporting the Magna waaay before that, with scarcely a mention in the motoring press. I don't see Holden selling to the very fussy and demanding market of Japan, but Mitsu Australia does, or did with Magna, dunno about 380.
I suppose, at least with Mitsu bashing, we do get bargain second hand cars, I mean, any quick browse around will turn up a less than 5 year old Magna for under 10k.
I came into Mitsubishi ownership by default, my girlfriend has had the same TS (second owner) for 8 years now, and all it has ever needed was a waterpump belt and regular servicing. It has 200,000kms on it, and the ride wuality is still excellent, and the engine is solid and used no oil. Same for teh trans. Sure it needs new shocks now, but so does every other car with 200,000kms.
So, I am not a raving Mitsubishi fan, I just think they are a far better vehicle. Give Mitsu six months, and all the teething problems wil be sorted out, and Ford/ Holden will be playing catchup again.
I sure hope this gets posted to Ford/ Holden forums, they will hurl chunks about how their poor handling Foulcan and noisy, unrefined Commodores are fast(noting that noisy= fast).
It's interesting how the AU got caned when it was released, and the VT was criticised as being seriously overweight, underpowered and soft handling, yet they sold big numbers, due to favourable pre$$$$$$$$$.
All they can pick on the Mitsu is some dodgey plastic and a bogus stering wheel?? Wow, I won't buy one!


Regards, Andrew.

All they can pick on the Mitsu is some dodgey plastic and a bogus stering wheel?? Wow, I won't buy one!



A good point IMO....

I'm holding judgement on the whole debate at this time until I have the opportunity to actually try the vehicles for myself :D

I'm waiting for Autospeed to do an article on the 380....that will be interesting and worth reading.

I dont know if it has been said already, but for Victorians, there is a multi page write up on the 380 in the RoyalAuto magazine (RACV)

Yeah had a read of that, all seemed pretty positive comments besides usual turning circle, hard to park etc...

And if the Magna aftermarket scene is anything to go by, no one will probablly bother witht he 380 ECU.

the reason for lack of aftermarket is cos its FWD =( it turns shallow minded ppl off :P

does anyone know if there is going to be an AWD 380? my guess is it will be only VRX and ralliart cos last time MMAL shot themselves in the foot by having a base model AWD and a sports FWD.

[QUOTE=typhoon]Wel, I'd just like to say that the 380 represents an excellent alternative to the dreary old Foulcans and Common*****s. I mean, I really get bored of modified Commodore # 334987 tailgating me and passing me in some dangerous place, tired of seeing them everywhere!
But seriously, anyone who is in the market for a new car would be plain stupid to put any faith in magazine reviews, I would hope theyd drive them all and have a real think about it. Of course, simple bogans wil stay brand loyal, but the rest of the public should be smart enough to see past that. Real people make up their own minds.
We all know the motoring press in this country loves to kick the underdog, they started it waaay back in Chrysler's day, and when Mitsubishi bought Chrysler Australia out, it just naturally followed onto Mitsu,which is a shame, as Mitsu Australia dragged Ford and Holden, kicking and screaming, into producing higher quality cars, in fit and finish, quality control, refinement etc. Who has ALWAYS had the longest factory warranties in this country? Who REALLY stands behind their products? Mitsubishi.
Remember the fuss when Holden announced they were exporting Common*****s globally, how world class the Common***** was? Well, Mitsu Australia had been exporting the Magna waaay before that, with scarcely a mention in the motoring press. I don't see Holden selling to the very fussy and demanding market of Japan, but Mitsu Australia does, or did with Magna, dunno about 380.
I suppose, at least with Mitsu bashing, we do get bargain second hand cars, I mean, any quick browse around will turn up a less than 5 year old Magna for under 10k.
I came into Mitsubishi ownership by default, my girlfriend has had the same TS (second owner) for 8 years now, and all it has ever needed was a waterpump belt and regular servicing. It has 200,000kms on it, and the ride wuality is still excellent, and the engine is solid and used no oil. Same for teh trans. Sure it needs new shocks now, but so does every other car with 200,000kms.
So, I am not a raving Mitsubishi fan, I just think they are a far better vehicle. Give Mitsu six months, and all the teething problems wil be sorted out, and Ford/ Holden will be playing catchup again.
I sure hope this gets posted to Ford/ Holden forums, they will hurl chunks about how their poor handling Foulcan and noisy, unrefined Commodores are fast(noting that noisy= fast).
It's interesting how the AU got caned when it was released, and the VT was criticised as being seriously overweight, underpowered and soft handling, yet they sold big numbers, due to favourable pre$$$$$$$$$.
All they can pick on the Mitsu is some dodgey plastic and a bogus stering wheel?? Wow, I won't buy one!


dead right, if it wasn't for the success of the early magna, ford & holden would still be producing "QUALITY" products like the VL/VN commodore & XF/EA falcon

the reason for lack of aftermarket is cos its FWD =( it turns shallow minded ppl off :P

does anyone know if there is going to be an AWD 380? my guess is it will be only VRX and ralliart cos last time MMAL shot themselves in the foot by having a base model AWD and a sports FWD.

1. From what loose scraps of (unreliable) information I've gathered, there isn't going to be an AWD.

2. Didn't they have a VRX AWD?

Well, I looked at a new base model Magna yesterday. Very nicely finished. Even door gaps, nice fit and finish externally and internally. Paint very nice. Seating position very nice and quite adjustable. Feels quite big, rear vision not as good as our current cars(TS Magna and Jaguar), but not horrible at all. Dealer keen to accomodate reasonable negotiations on price, but said (as with any new model) that if we wanted anything special order, like a base model manual, we'd have to wait a little bit. We didn't drive one, just curious.
Will wait 12-24 months for decent second hand ones to come out and go from there. I will definitely consider it very carefully when they start coming into our price range....I don't buy new cars, just a personal thing, I don't like the massive hit you take on the sale price and the loan interest. Also, buying one a couple of years means you can pick up higher rmodels within your budget.
But if I was buying new, I'd just go for it if I got the deal I wanted.
Personally, the LS is better value for money than the base 380, as it has traction control, alloys, fog lamps, nicer chrome mouldings an grille, 6 stacker CD system,leather steering wheel, six way power seat etc for not too much extra.
The base 380 feels like a government fleet car or taxi.

Regards, Andrew.

The base 380 feels like a government fleet car or taxi.

well duh.. its the base model! its the same as how driving a base model falcon reminds me of a dodgy taxi even tho its probably a pretty good car

Well, I looked at a new base model Magna yesterday. ...
Regards, Andrew.

You found a new Magna? mmmmm... I think they've stopped making them. MMAL have a new car called the 380, you know.

You found a new Magna? mmmmm... I think they've stopped making them. MMAL have a new car called the 380, you know.

there is still a number of brand new magna's lieing around that havent been sold yet...

/notes a very well beaten and dead horse amongst the vultures..