ok, i want to stop giving crappy adivce about subs and i wanna know what i'm actually talking about

what counts more, the wattage or the size of a sub
what is the best enclosure
what is the best setup for: rock, trance and black music

ok, i want to stop giving crappy adivce about subs and i wanna know what i'm actually talking about

what counts more, the wattage or the size of a sub
what is the best enclosure
what is the best setup for: rock, trance and black music

K well im not 100% informed but heres what i understand. Neither watts nor size matter though most pplz say 12's r the best all rounders. Its all about the quality of a sub neone can buy a 1,000,000 watt sub thats 30 inches but it wont sound good its about the quality limek any other audio stuff. Best enclosure depends on the type of music u listen to i think ported is for rubling bass and sealed is for just normal bass? not 100% sure

Neither really counts more. Generally you get what you pay for. Build quality is most important.
A light cone will have a lower moving mass and therefore be more efficient. So with lower power it will be louder. But this might not handle as much power as another sub with a stiff suspension and heavy moving mass which has the potential to get much louder with more power, whilst the lighter cone and softer suspension may bottom out very quickly.

Wattage: It is hard to rate a sub on their specs, as there is no industry standard for measuring them. For instance: Say I have BOSS sub rated at 1000 watts. This is most likely a peak music output. In reality it may only handle 200 w rms. It will handle 1000w for a second before the voice coil fries.
I might have a DD, ID, Adire sub that is rated at 500 watts RMS. On the birthsheet it might say even higher say 750 w rms. In actual fact these might be able to handle a lot more and still maintain their audibility. Say 1500 w rms for SPL burps. These might be very underrated.

General rule of thumb is you get what you pay for.

The sub you buy should be relevent to everything else in your system and you need to take into account the overall aim.

Someone may only listen to softer genres: ballads, orchestral, ambient etc. These still require low end extension, but don't need sheer output to determine how good they are. You would want a sub that is very accurate and smooth ideally you'd want a sub suited to a sealed enclosure

Another person may just want a sub for cruising with the windows down to wake up the neighbourhood. Generally someone who wants to get loud isnt as concerned about a bit of distortion. They might be suited to a sub for ported enclosures which will add a bit of looseness to the sound. But will be very efficient and get very loud. Especially around the ported frequency

Then you may have someone that wants the best of both worlds. A sub that gets loud and maintains its composure. You'd want a sub that has a very flat frequency response, that can handle very high power, generally they have huge powerful motors in them. And need a huge quality amp to match.

To find the best sub for you... To make it easier we can break it down into SQ = Sound quality, SPL = Sound pressure level, and SQL a combo of both. Some people dont fit into any category but its a start.

Now SQ people will use sealed boxes as this provides them with a much tighter note at the expense of efficiency. (as the sealed box makes extra effort for the sub) SQ people can also use IB*(infinite baffle or free air), AP(Aperiodic enclosures), or ported boxes (x order bandpass etc) but im just generalising to explain it easily.

SPL people want it loud so use ported boxes for efficiency. This will be looser but much louder and exhibit a large peak at the tuning frequency of the box.

To calculate which sub is for which enclosure we look at the TS specs (Thielle small) of the sub.

We want to calculate the EBP or efficiency bandwidth product
an EBP of
50 or less = best used in a sealed enclosure
50 - 90 = Either
90 or greater = best used in ported enclosure

To calculate EBP we need
fs = Resonant frequency of the driver and
Qes = Electrical Q at the resonant point (how the woofer behaves down low)
EBP = Fs / Qes


Peace

Tim

valaxy check out

http://www.bcae1.com/

Good site with lots of info for people starting out.

thanks very much tim for that, very informative indeed.

and thanks again for that website, i was searching for it for AGGGES after i formatted.

thank you :P

tim you are now officially known as the sound nerd of AMC :P COs you seem to know alot, or u bs alot :P

:) :) thankyou so much, greatly appericated :cool:

Not trying to take away from Tim's excellent and informative post... BUT:
It's all what your ears like Valaxy. What sounds nice to one person can sound terrible to the next.

Just because I have 2x12's, it doesnt mean that my system is the best all-rounder. Yes, it will play loud, get vibration if required.... but there is a car I know of with a single 10" that kills my car for both SQ and SPL.

I am going down the "doof for dollar" value route. Im always looking for good gear at better prices, and not spending a bomb.

Tim is going down the SQ path, he spends alot more than me, gets a more natural sound. However, just because Tim's is an SQ system, it doesn't mean that it will only play piano and classical music well.

Magnat is a bass freak... he likes his high-excursion Magnat subs. These will vibrate your fillings out if required, but doesn't mean that is bass cannot be punchy.

The main impact of the sound is the ideaology you follow when installing.

Some like punchy, controlled bass. Sealed box for this is the best and easiest way.

Some like vibration and loud. Tuned port vented box for this. To get really loud, tune your box to your car's resonant frequency. Very easy to get bad results with ported boxes. Only to be done by pro's, or someone who understands wave theory (like yr12 physics.....)

Then you have the bandpass boxes and ampherodic boxes as Tim mentioned. Please do not go down this route without a professional, or if you must, buy an enclosure that was factory fitted with the subs. There are some nice bandpass boxes around.... chucked an audiobahn 2x12" 5th order bandpass box in my car courtesy of my favourite JB Hifi manager and took it for a test listen. Wasn't my cup of tea, and I havent heard those subs in a sealed box either, so hard to compare.

I always make my system available to any AMCer that wants to listen to it. Any other serious car audio nut on here (Tim, Magnat, Megatron, etc etc etc) would all do the same.
We are all proud of our systems, and what they can do. We like to show them off to those that are interested :D

You've heard us say it a hundred times - get out there and have a listen.

I have my 2x12" JBLs... which aren't SQ drivers by any means, but pump well on a good tight budget. Once I got into Dee's car and heard her single 12" Vibe Blackair sub (in a box of fibreglass that SHE DID HERSELF - you go girl... so proud of ya) I fell in love with them. Totally clean bass....awesome.

Even same or very similar equipment has different installs, and different tuning. You would be amazed how much difference it can make.

Nothing Like an SPL Headache after a Cruise LOL !!
The Bass makes your Hair Stand on end and your Head feels like it is gonna explode.. Kinda like a Self induced Migraine but only lasts for 10 mins then goes away..

SPL Subs = Chunky Double stacked Magnet Structures, High Power Handling, Huge Rubber Rolled Surrounds , Vented Voice Coils and Bumped Back Plates and they Weigh Heavy and Take more of a Pounding then a Regular Sub
Nothing Gentle about them. Feed Them as Much power as they can Handle in Large Ported Or Bandpassed Enclosures and look out their Bass may Turn your Kidney's into Mush
You Feel them as much as you here them...
MTX, Rockford Fosgate, Kicker, Magnat XTC Range and Armegeddon to name a few




SQ Subs=a Smoother sounding Sub that has Higher Build Quality Comes with an Instruction Booklet on how to power it and to build an enclosure thats is precisely what it needs to be able to reward you with the Best Quality Bass possible with a delivery that is absolute Heaven to your ears
Hertz, Boston,Diamond Audio ( Not my field so I cannot name all the really good ones)



Regular use Subwoofer
These are a Blend of Both usually Cheaper Construction and more simplier in design ( Not always)
They Can take a Pounding and still sound sweet to your ears depending on their Application, Enclosure and Tuning.
Sony XPLOD,Pioneer,Clarion ,Jaycar and JVC as Entry Level


There are some Great installs on AMC, Covering From SQ, SPL and Everyday Setups.

I have Major Respect for those who do their Audio installs by themselves, they Choose the Gear , Install the Gear and Setup the gear ..
Anyone can buy a Sub, Shove it into an Enclosure and Get some Install Monkey to do their Dirty work but it takes Trial and Error to do it yourself...
Much Credit goes to Mysti, S_tim_ulate, temagna,Atlas and Mitsimonsta all have shown Creativity and make the Car Audio section worth Visiting
Check out their Installs in the Magna Boot Hall of Fame Sticky.. ( Just remember to keep that Post Spam free and if you want to know anything about their Installs PM them so we can save space for others)

Thanks heaps guys, very informative.

Danno

yea, i thought for now it would be safer for someone else to the installition, and i didn't hvae time to do it myself, but the system i've got, i like it, and will be with my magna untill i stop driving it, my next car, whatever it might be, i'm going to put in an awsome system, i might consider doing it myself. As i've said before, i have gathered a lot more constructive advice since coming on here, both engine wise and now audio wise, thanks once again chaps :cool:

p.s, finally finished the HSC, a fair few months of no school work :) :)

p.s, finally finished the HSC, a fair few months of no school work :) :)
Congratulations, I hope you get the results you were after.

If you ever want to see my system (I will pull off door trims at a cruise if asked to - not that they are much to look at right now) then just ask.

Depending on where in NSW you are, may be able to give you a hand on any install problems you have.