Would you know what's involved in installing the brakes from the AWD / Ralliart Magna on to a FWD Magna? I'm sure they bolt right up etc but could there be an issue with it going from an ABS car to a non-ABS car in that there may be a difference between how much force is applied from the master cylinder to the new calipers especially the fronts which went from single pistons to twin piston calipers? *breath* I'm sure that the brake bias front to back would need to be adjusted to suit but I was worried that maybe there's some other difference / issue behind the scene.

Can you help at all?

Regards,
Redav

:idea:
Redav, what you are saying is that your magna has no abs and you want to fit ralliart discs and rotors to your ride???
Iwill phone my mate at mtsi aust in the morning. He's a teccie and has mucho experience with the ralliart side og things.
Hang on and I'll find out the facts.
Seems sraight forward except the master cylinder i think would need to be changed. but mate I write software to pay the bills, so Iam most probably wrong.

Yeah, spot on. I'm not so interested in the rotors as I'll get some EBC or DBA gear but I was interested in the calipers.

Here's what I understand:

> Rotor sizes increased
> Front calipers went from single piston to two pistons
> A Mitsu service dude said they should be a straight swap but his concern is with the hydraulics

Here's what I'd like to know:

> The front calipers are different but are the rear calipers different too?
(I'd have thought so but I can't confirm this)
> Is the proportioning an easy issue to fix
> TBuTcher has asked as the KJ AWD has ABS and my TF doesn't, will the master cylinder provide enough pressure as it's going from 1 piston to 2. i.e. is there something ABS specific that assists with braking, like a booster, on top of what the master cylinder does
> will pedel feel be affected and is this legal as far as Queensland Transport is concerned
QT have given me a contact and I'd be getting the work done by guys who can approve stuff anyway
> Is there anything that might conflict with something in the rear as that area would have been re-engineered for the RWD component

TBuTcher, have I missed anything that you'd like to add?

Cheers, mate. Tell you what, I'm glad you've joind this forum. Firstly it's cool to have someone with an AWD car and secondly, a Mitsu techie - that's potentially very handy. :)

Can you also ask him if it's possible to swap the climate control from the KJ into my TF? :D

:D
Hi redav, firstly playing with brakes frighten me, get it wrong and one can end up very dead.
In a previous post I mentioned the rallart brakes as the awd has them. yes the rears are ralliart also. gee I wish I could find my post.

This is what happens to abs and ebd(electronic brake distribution)
when you upgrade your rotors and calipers.
The Abs is effected by wheel size because the sensors don't work off the calipers but off wheel speed.
ABS and EBD systems are developed to suit the specific caliper bore sizes and fluid displacements on the vehicle.
To ensure continuing operation of Abs and Ebd the original equipment bore size and fluid displacement should not be exceeded.
If you upgrade your calipers and don't want to have to change your
master cylinder, you need to keep the pistons volumetric size constant.
For example, a caliper has two 43 mm pistons (total of 86mm) and you upgrade to say six piston calipers, the total dimiensions of all 6 pistons
needs to stay a 86mm (or 15mm diameter per piston). This eliminates
any spongyness in the brake pedal.
Also, id the diameter of the brake lines increase, a larger master cylinder would be needed to counter the increased pedal travel.
Ill give you the specs of the ralliart brakes as fitted to my awd:
front 294mm with 2 pot cylinders
rear 284mm.
I cannot track down the piston size and am not sure about the master cylinder.They look the same but maybe there is a difference internally.
Redav I hope this helps, but as you can see 99% right is 100% wrong when it comes to brakes .
Godd luck with it, I'll track the dimensions I'm not sure of next week.

:o
Ihaven"t spoken to the techie yet. I have given you my research. Will talk to him on Monday re everything including the climate control.
later

I will check at work tomorrow what is different as far as master cylinders etc etc and the brake sizes. and whether it will be a bolt on job or a custom fit job. I need your vin number to make it easier, email it to me if you like and the brakes you are looking at a Ralliart or AWD, they may be the same they may not.

Thanks, lads.

I understand what you're saying about the pistons / area etc but as far as ABS and EBD goes, my car doesn't have this and I'm not trying to get it, will that be okay?

Actually, my reasoning behind this upgrade would be to reduce the chance of me winding up dead :D

Redav

HiI have just done he brake upgrade you are talking about on my VRX.
Front upgrade is easy and you can use AWD or Ralliart (same thing differet part numbers).
Rear brakes you need to get ralliart as the hand brake set up is different on the AWD(due to the shift lock).
No need to cahnge master cylinder on my TJ VRX.
Brake hoses are also different and you will need these.
well worth doing in my opinion.
Geoff

:?:
Redav, the brake pun was a general comment about brake modifications.
It was not directed at you.
The Awd is my first magna and am not very knowledgable about the earlier models. I was not aware your model did not have Abs.
I'll steer clear next time and leave it to the experts.

[quote:95f801812c]I'll steer clear next time and leave it to the experts.[/quote:95f801812c]

Nah don't do that. All facts are valuable. Now the rest of us who do have ABS know what to look out for! Cheers!

Nah, that's cool. I didn't even read into anything you'd said.

Any more info you guys?

The guy who I'll get to do the upgrade feels that it should be a fairly straight forward swap but his main question was whether the master cylinder for my car and the KJ AWD was the same size.

i did not have o on my TJ and I dont think you will on the older one either

i did not have o on my TJ and I dont think you will on the older one either

Did you mean that you didn't have to change it?

Oh and I think you will find Ralliart rotors are 310mm and not 294 like these ones ont he AWD.

You should have also asked if people think you should get calipers and rotors at the asame time from the same car.

Haydn

DISC SIZE IS THE SAME FOR RALLIART OR AWD 294MM FRONT 284MM REAR.
THERE IS NO 310MM FOR ANY MAGNAS.

If you can get disc and callipers at the same time get them. don't forget the brake hoses either.
You will not have to change the master cylinder or so the guys in the work shop here say.
Geoff

Thanks guys. I've picked up rotors and calipers. Brake lines are in tact too.

Also, these won't fit within the stock 15' rims, will they? :lol:

DAMN YOU REDAV!!!!!!!!!!!
DAMN YOU TO NT!!!
I WANTED THEM! :(
[size=12:cd72593487]Oh well Im glad you decided to get the lot.
I think you will be happy!

BTW did you get the hand brake cable? If not Im going to.
[/size:cd72593487]


Haydn :(

dont worry Redav,

your welcome here 8)