Alright - I'm almost ready to give up on modding magnas for good. Here's my story.

4 Months ago - my car was a Stock TJII with 4spd tiptronic transmission. Not a bad little car - able to surprise drivers of most other 6 cyl cars on the road........ but I wanted more. So I did what any good AMC member in my position would have done, threw good money at performance mods in the hope of having something abit more 'unique'.

I set about researching the possibilites and planning/budgeting my approach. I also got a power run done when the car was completely stock so I could get tangible evidence of how well spent my money was gonna be :doubt: .

The results of this 1st dyno can be seen below.....

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2471/dyno18mw.jpg

With baseline dyno graph in hand - I set about spending money...... I'll just summarise the list of mods in rough order of fittment:
EZboy flowed T/B
RPW Stainless Steel CAI w/ K&N oval pod filter
Redback 2.5" mendrel bent cat back piping + Redback Muffler
2.5" Stainless Steel Hi-flow Catalytic converter
RPW "Race Series" headers treated with HPC
FSE Fuel Pressure Regulator
RPW Plennum w/ Internal Ram tubes
Thermoblok plennum and T/B spacers
GReddy Emanage Piggyback computer
Think thats everything...

All the above mods were fitted over a period of about 3 months, mostly one at a time - and all the while, my ass was telling me each mod was improving the performance of my car over the last one..... turns out my ass might just have been telling me what I wanted to hear.

When it was finally time to have the emange fitted and tuned I was pretty confident that my car would put down somewhere in the vicinty of 125+kW pre tune, and hopefully close to 135kW+ after the tune . Needless to say I was pretty disappointed with both the before and after dyno results from the emanage fit and tune, which can be seen below:

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9560/dyno27oz.jpg

Yep - thats about 118.xkW pre tune, and 122kW post tune :cry:

Convinced that the low output figures were a characteristic of that particular dyno - I headed off to a dyno day not 5 days later confident of getting closer to 130kW but alas:

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9470/dyno38tu.jpg

Like WTF!!!!! I couldn't believe it - but I managed to convince myself that being a FWD car, with it's air intake way off to the side, on a RWD dyno (ie: nose in the air) that my car was getting **** all airflow from the fan - hence the low output figures....... I came to this conclusion after my car was able to make ground on an BA XR6 manual ute which put down 147kW on the same dyno, same day (on a private road).

So anyway - still with delusions that my car was 'pretty alright' I was happy with it for some weeks, that was until last night when I took the car to Willowbank Raceway during a 'Test and Tune' session. For the 3rd consecutive time, I managed to set my expectations of this POS too high........ I foolishly thought the car would be able to scrape into the 14's (manual 3.0L's with far fewer mods can just about get 14's FFS!).

I'm almost too ashamed to admit the results from the drag strip, but here goes. The best time I managed was a 15.512 @ 149.35K/h. My other times were 15.523 @ 147.08 and 2x 15.6's.

So anyway - I'm pretty disheartened by the whole ****ing fiasco...... I'll let y'all add up the mods, and work out roughly how much money I threw at the POS....... I reckon the car probably would have pulled 15.7's - 15.9's stock standard (not that my guesses have historically been very good though).

So going forward...... I've got a few ideas on where I need to focus my attention in order to get the power I anticipated I should have, but I'd like to throw it open to the members of this fine community to throw some suggestions my way. What do you think is holding my car back??

Any questions...... fire away.

Thanks,
Mike.

what was everyone else getting on the dyno? were other magnas with less mods lower than yours?

also has it had all the up to date servicing?

dude just get nos
pure hp gain :D

Do some checks on Inlet depression and exhaust backpressure(not necessarily easy, but cheap), see if theres something stupid holding it back, something little and overlooked - a collapsed cat for example will kill any hopes of producing power, and yes I know it's new but thats no reason to say it wasn't faulty.
Also try some compression tests, if it looks good there then you can be sure that at least the basics of the motor are sound and it's something bolt on thats effecting it negatively.

The way your torque falls away on that last run, there is something definately wrong - that just isnt a mitsu v6 torque curve, right where yours dips is where mine humps up until around 5 grand, so yeah one of the things you put on isn't working properly and is throwing everything else to ****, it'll just be a matter of working through the system to find the fault.

Matthius

dude i can understand why you are pissed. those after power figures dont seem right.

my only possible suggestion is the auto is stealing all your power ???

im sure someone will have a more detailed suggestion tho

good luck anyways. hope u work it outl

what was everyone else getting on the dyno? were other magnas with less mods lower than yours?

also has it had all the up to date servicing?

No other magna's on that particular dyno day....... until my mates XR6 rolled onto the dyno, mine was the most powerful 6cyl aspirated of the day, but there wasn't much competition (ecotech and buick commodores with mufflers, and an EB XR6 with 'stage 2 cams' ) commodores were getting between 105 and 109, the EB xr6 got 96, the XR6 has SS inductions intake, hi-tech headers, and Redback cat back/muffler.

I brought the car 18 months old with 42000kms on it (previous owner QLD health) - all scheduled services completed, since I've owned it, there hasn't been oil in it for more than 7,500kms.

Its a 4speed auto, say no more. First gear in them is tall and with wide gear spacings.
The 5speed auto on the other hand has a lower first gear and quite good gear spacings.

I have similar mods to you and my emanage gained 9 kw... but as you will no doubt hear one dyno run to the other and at different tuning places will give different results.

I have said it many times unless I was going a turbo or s/c I would not do the emanage again if I was to mod another car... at $130 gain per kilowatt, it is hardly worth it.

I think a big part of the problem around getting more grunt out of these tickers is to get the internals worked but who is game these days to do it? very few... such as better cams and general work to ratios and drive train... bottom line is lotsa money.

Most of your mods are exhaust and intake mods which aren't going to kick too many goals, just get things flowing better.

How much did you spend on the emanage install? and was it from a reputable installer? get a dodgy installer and you aren't going to get the results (i learnt this first hand) I have to get mine looked at again... fortunately I have found a mob who know what they are doing.

Last time my 3.0L auto was tested I got 124.6 kw/atw which looks good on paper but I was absolutely crap at the drags... mainly because I cant get the power to the wheels and most of my mods are tuned for top end not low end = **** launches. Plus I was a n00b to the drag strip and hot track temps.

We all know modding a Magna is high cost for lesser gain... just depends how daring you are prepared to get.

Don't be too disillusioned... use top quality fuels and oils and get the car serviced regularly... that can make heaps of difference (I just got my car serviced today at 240,000ks for $165... there was nothing really wrong)

Do some checks on Inlet depression and exhaust backpressure(not necessarily easy, but cheap), see if theres something stupid holding it back, something little and overlooked - a collapsed cat for example will kill any hopes of producing power, and yes I know it's new but thats no reason to say it wasn't faulty.
Also try some compression tests, if it looks good there then you can be sure that at least the basics of the motor are sound and it's something bolt on thats effecting it negatively.

Matthius

I visually inspected the cat before it went in...... it was sitting in my garage for about a month while I waited for RPW to get more headers produced..... could see straight thru it no worries at all, is there another way of knowing if it was faulty. Thanks for the other suggestions too - I will try and cover off as many of those things as possible before I start throwing more good money after bad.


dude i can understand why you are pissed. those after power figures dont seem right.

my only possible suggestion is the auto is stealing all your power ???

I guess thats possible, but I never thought it would be that bad....... infact the baseline dyno (assuming it's accurate) would indicate only 25% loss thru the drivetrain........
:doubt:

Oh and Meh - :gtfo: lol

my bet.

strip your parts out of your car and make it back to stock

sell it and buy a Manual TJ, like a sports, ralliart or vrx maybe

re install all the mods then u might get a decent power figure for all the bucks u spent

How much did you spend on the emanage install? and was it from a reputable installer? get a dodgy installer and you aren't going to get the results (i learnt this first hand) I have to get mine looked at again... fortunately I have found a mob who know what they are doing.


by all accounts the install wasn't cheap............ It was fitted and tuned by a shop I was directed to by at least 3 others here in Brisbane after mentioning the word "Emanage" - they were apparently the experts :confused: . Having said that - they had never tuned a magna with one (probably never worked on a magna at all), but as far as I know - no one in brisbane had at that time.

*edit - just noticed you broke yours down into $$ / kW gained....... mine was $225/kW*

Rest assured that the car has been treated to high quality fuel and oil since I've owned it....

As far as the tune is concerned - does anyone out there know what sort of 'tuning' should be put into a magna??? I always run 98ron, and I'm sure they said they threw 4deg timing into it.... also, air/fuel ratios can be seen on the 3rd dyno graph posted - starts around 14.0 and drops to just under 13.0 at the top end. Do these figures mean anything to anyone??

The way your torque falls away on that last run, there is something definately wrong - that just isnt a mitsu v6 torque curve, right where yours dips is where mine humps up until around 5 grand, so yeah one of the things you put on isn't working properly and is throwing everything else to ****, it'll just be a matter of working through the system to find the fault.

Matthius

I think you'll find the secondary graph in the 3rd dyno run is air/fuel ratio - not torque, as far as I understand, it's doing what it should be - leaning out slightly, but remaining fairly level at the same time......... but then again - I'm no expert

I think you'll find the secondary graph in the 3rd dyno run is air/fuel ratio - not torque, as far as I understand, it's doing what it should be - leaning out slightly, but remaining fairly level at the same time......... but then again - I'm no expert

lol, sure is :P can I have that post back ?

Matthius

from that afr it doesn't seem like he's put much into tuning it. Jared's auto 4spd tippy has done a 15.4 in colder weather but it seemed like you had a bit more go....

The afr should not stray from 14.7 through out the whole rev range, i think thats the right number?? but yeah especially top end you'd want it to be on the money; or is it 12.7 afr??

u need to go somewhere else and get ur car tuned


Ive got a tj2 with a mufler change, and i get 120.8kw atw

from that afr it doesn't seem like he's put much into tuning it. Jared's auto 4spd tippy has done a 15.4 in colder weather but it seemed like you had a bit more go....

The afr should not stray from 14.7 through out the whole rev range, i think thats the right number?? but yeah especially top end you'd want it to be on the money; or is it 12.7 afr??

14.7 is stoich yeah, but most cars will hole pistons if you load them at this AFR :P your best bet is mid 12's a possibly a bit richer with a turbo.

Matthius

14.7 is stoich yeah, but most cars will hole pistons if you load them at this AFR :P your best bet is mid 12's a possibly a bit richer with a turbo.

Matthius

Interesting....... just let me get my bearings here...... is it the lower the number the leaner the mixture, or the other way around??

Dude

do you have a Greddy sticker on your car ?

cos iff not thats where the problem is, your car wont alow u to progress without representation !!




Otherwise, i suggest taking it to a very reputable tuning shop, either a good jap one, or a place that build things like vl turbo's......they know every which way to scavange power......and could possibly find something that is wrong with your setup that's holding you back. !

Interesting....... just let me get my bearings here...... is it the lower the number the leaner the mixture, or the other way around??

it's a ratio, 14.7 parts of air to 1 part of fuel, so the lower the number the lower the ratio of air to fuel = richer, really really rich is ~10, really really lean depends on your vehicle :P but ~16 would be a common number on light throttle openings.

Matthius

Dude

do you have a Greddy sticker on your car ?

cos iff not thats where the problem is, your car wont alow u to progress without representation !!




Otherwise, i suggest taking it to a very reputable tuning shop, either a good jap one, or a place that build things like vl turbo's......they know every which way to scavange power......and could possibly find something that is wrong with your setup that's holding you back. !

lol @ stickers........ maybe you're onto something there..... the XR6 ute is plastered in stickers :nuts:

By all accounts the tuner that fitted the emanage is very reputable at tuning imports - and they are the original Greddy stockists in Bris, however they didn't seem interested in putting any more effort into the magna.

Having said that - getting the tune revised is high up on the list of 'next steps'. I really don't think I have many options available to me in terms of good tuners in Brisbane (I'm open to suggestions though) - I'm thinking of giving it to a guy who was able to get 60kW out of a moderately modded XR6T by tuning a piggyback, but he's never used an emanage before. - unlike most I've spoken to - he seems genuine in so much as he sees potential with the car and is willing to help extract it.

The other thing I'm seriously considering is revising the air intake setup....... I've got my doubts about the effectiveness of the RPW designed kit - sure it delivers cold air, but I don't think 3x 90 degree bends and probably in excess of 5L of air between the MAF sensor and the T/B does much for air velocity..... :doubt:

I'll be looking at a much shorter air intake boxed in the engine bay - possibly vented thru a bonnet scoop of some description.

By all accounts the tuner that fitted the emanage is very reputable at tuning imports - and they are the original Greddy stockists in Bris, however they didn't seem interested in putting any more effort into the magna.Enuf said!

That seems to happen a lot with big "reputable" shops, if your aim isn't to put out 500kw in a show vehicle they aren't too keen. A company in W.A had my friends rb25 Vl for months(6 to be exact) to tune it, basically because they had bigger fish to fry and kept putting his car back in the line.

Matthius

Custom ground cams. Big overlap, plenty of lift.

Enuf said!
:stoopid: Crying shame no one on the East Coast is interested.

Custom ground cams. Big overlap, plenty of lift.

yeah well - trust me when I say I'd be more than willing to go down that road if I could actually see a benefit from the mods I've just spent $x,xxx.xx on. Until now I had every intention of more mods in the pursuit of some significant N/A horsepower - hence I took the 'spare no expense' approach to getting the 'basics' (suck, squirt & blow) right.

thats seriously not right!!

i mean just from
flowed TB,
change of muffler ( already had the cat back piping set up),
CAI

i gained 9 kw's ... on the same dyno n very "like" conditions ... somethings not right there dude!!..

ur car should be a rocket right now:S ...

i gained 9 kw's ... on the same dyno n very "like" conditions ... somethings not right there dude!!..

ur car should be a rocket right now:S ...

Thanks....... Thats what I thought........ I was starting to think I must have been crazy.

Thanks....... Thats what I thought........ I was starting to think I must have been crazy.

Throwing a bucket load of cash at any car doesnt neccesarily mean its gunna be a racer, sumtimes ya find that less=more.....

hence my mods, yes i did change pistons, mildport my heads and have fairly big cams but then i still used standard inlet and flowed TB for my 170+kws@wheels...... its all about things clicking together, plus i rebuilt my engine by myself so i did alot of little things that cost bugger all but they all add up in the end.

Im rebuilding my engine now for even more grunt but ill still be doing it cheaply and taking my time at doing it.

How does the car FEEL to you? Does it feel doughy? If so, return the car to stock and drive it again. See, you've just gotten used to your mods and need to spend more money ;)

5L of air between the MAF sensor and the T/B does much for air velocity..... :doubt:

I'll be looking at a much shorter air intake boxed in the engine bay - possibly vented thru a bonnet scoop of some description.

Yeah, if I remember correcttly in the thread about some guys finding that extending the wiring tot he MAF cuased problems with tuning. Somthing about signal lag.

They found they couldn't tune properlly in realtime or somthing.

Get an EZBoy style setup and re-tune before doing any more mods.

Yeah, if I remember correcttly in the thread about some guys finding that extending the wiring tot he MAF cuased problems with tuning. Somthing about signal lag.

They found they couldn't tune properlly in realtime or somthing.

Get an EZBoy style setup and re-tune before doing any more mods.

It's interesting you say that - because when I do redesign the air intake to move the POD/MAF sensor closer to the original position, I probably would have just rolled up the excess cable, rather than shortening it..... :redface:

Did the dyno opperator put it on the wrong way lol


My guess is its the ****ty ecu you used and a poor tune.

I am no expert, but...

What you have played with are minor things, that try to improve air flowing into the engine, and air flowing out of the engine... flowed T/B, CAI, pod filter, cat back piping + Muffler
Hi-flow Cat, headers, Fuel Pressure Regulator, Plennum w/ Internal Ram tubes, plennum and T/B spacers, piggyback computer.

No wild cam upgrade, no piston changes, no head changes, no fudamental changes to the engine's ability to produce power inside the block/heads. You may have made it easier to dump a bit more fuel in, more cleanly, but if the fundamental engine is close to stock, you aint gonna get much more than what you got.

Allegedly my stock TJII VR-X has eight more killowatts at the flywheel, over its 'standard' model. Achieved with a factory fitted higher flow muffler, and allegedly some small ECU tweaks.

116 > 122kw at the wheels? in your case? that's all you can get, really.. with what you have done. :)

Sorry to hear your disheartened disappointment.

Like people say it's not about how much you spend but how things come together. I have seen cars that have had buckets spent on them and to no extra gain.

I have a 3.5 TL, I know the engine is bigger then the 3 but hay, I have put in a high flow cat+exhaust, k&n filter, timing redone, CAI and I managed to get 138.2 kw ATW last dyno day.

Have you checked your compression ext, maybe there is a genuine reason for what is going on. Other then that sorry but hang in there and when things get soughed out its gona be all GOOOOODDDDDDD.

i didnt have the heart to tell you that i thought your mid 14 second predictions were a little far off. I remember saying I would be impressed if you got into the 14's at all :P

If you kept the car stock and spent all your money on a manual conversion the result would of been much better, but thats all in hindsight now isnt it :cry:

Bad luck bro :cry:

No wild cam upgrade, no piston changes, no head changes, no fudamental changes to the engine's ability to produce power inside the block/heads. You may have made it easier to dump a bit more fuel in, more cleanly, but if the fundamental engine is close to stock, you aint gonna get much more than what you got.



Yep, VE of a motor doesn't change much, so power doesn't either. Bolt on mods are for hondas.

Get an EZBoy style setup and re-tune before doing any more mods.
:stoopid: lol

hypothetically speaking....... if I were to buy a manual magna, and transfer my mods over..... how much is an LSD, h/duty clutch and short shifter kit gonna add to the price of the exercise?

What you have played with are minor things, that try to improve air flowing into the engine, and air flowing out of the engine... flowed T/B, CAI, pod filter, cat back piping + Muffler
Hi-flow Cat, headers, Fuel Pressure Regulator, Plennum w/ Internal Ram tubes, plennum and T/B spacers, piggyback computer.

No wild cam upgrade, no piston changes, no head changes, no fudamental changes to the engine's ability to produce power inside the block/heads. You may have made it easier to dump a bit more fuel in, more cleanly, but if the fundamental engine is close to stock, you aint gonna get much more than what you got.

Allegedly my stock TJII VR-X has eight more killowatts at the flywheel, over its 'standard' model. Achieved with a factory fitted higher flow muffler, and allegedly some small ECU tweaks.

116 > 122kw at the wheels? in your case? that's all you can get, really.. with what you have done.


i think thats a lil far off isnt it ? ... llike yeah he hasnt put in a set of lumpy cams or nothing but 6 kw's!?

i agree he should be expecting a massis power gain ...but SURELY it should be in double figures and close to 20 kws

:stoopid:

i would have been expecting AT LEAST 20kw's

i think thats a lil far off isnt it ? ... llike yeah he hasnt put in a set of lumpy cams or nothing but 6 kw's!?

i agree he should be expecting a massis power gain ...but SURELY it should be in double figures and close to 20 kws

I'm with you - all my research led me to believe that these engines responded very favourably to intake, exhaust, and a bit of a tune - even without internal mods. My strategy all along was to perform all the mods required to copliment more serious mods like cams, head work, hi compression etc down the track (mods which wouldn't have been as worthwhile if I hadn't done the basics). But at close to $1000 bucks per kW gained....... I couldn't care less if the car was on fire right now..... :shock:

I had every intention of begining budgeting and planning for the 'more serious' mods as listed above once I reached this stage........ I'm sure you can appreciate that I am now re-evaluating these plans.

If I had have achieved the expected 20+kW gains from the breathing and tuning modification now performed - I can assure you I'd already be booking the car in for cam and headwork.

did it feel quicker everytime u did another mod? ... like could u feel a gain in power evertime u added something? ....


maybe take it to another tuner and explain to them the situation ur in and tell them what other magnas have been making with these mods and let them have a looks see? ....its a long shot but hey ... uve spent gpod money on this car, think it would be worth ur while to find out why its no faster

With regards to the results shown with this vehicle to clarify a few things

(A) The stainless steel cold air kit from RPW is essentially the same thing as the TH smoker kit as commonly known - 3" diameter etc. There woudl be no advantage to changing that.

Now going to a shorter air intake setup woudl certainly on the dyno and when racing woudl produce a higher hp especially on the dyno. BUt it woudl result in the traditional problem of hot air being sucked as well.

Going to a pod in teh engine bay, then enclosing it and re routing hoses to the front bumper essentially sets up the same scenario as the placing the air flow meter down the front of the car.

Comments made about the length being longer and effecting tuning is not correct. Yes it does increase the volume of air between the air flow meter and the engine and does alter teh response rate, but so saying that this is what the tuning is tehre to compensate for. We don't have any issue with this as it would only effect the "Accelerator Pump" settings Ie teh initial surge of air / fuel mixture until the air flow meter catches up.

Hence why the rising rate FPR units are something we use so much as these essentially, allow us to richen up the accelerator pump values and eliminate this as a tuning issue. Interesting to note the new greddy ecu software and firmware updates now allow an accelerator pump values to be increased (Something the haltech and unitchips don't have) so this is a definite bonus for greddy emanage users.

I tried to read your dyno sheets but they were just too small for me to get an accurate idea of the changes.

Being an auto model - it is always going to be hard to get consistant results and tuning. It is a lot harder to tune an auto because it changes gears on you automatically, locking it into a gear whilst can be done, it still shifts at low rpms up to that gear. Additioanlly being an auto, they just suck up every ounce of torque the car has to drive it.

I do not know what type of dyno it was tuned on but I am assuming that it is on a roller dyno. This makes it doubly hard cause variations in tyre slippage, tempature etc mean that run to run within the same 20 minutes can also alter. Additionally unless tuning is done with a sensor on the engine block to check for ignition rattle etc, it is very hard to be able to know how much ignition timing to give etc.

To give an example, on a hub dyno we can do a 1 degree ignition change and see exactly the increase / decrease in the power curve. This can't be simulated on a roller dyno due to the tyre absorption rates etc.

So what I am saying is you have the hardest combo of vehicle to tune accuratly, and not that the tuning is good or bad, but it is just a hard vehicle to tune to max capabilities with the effect of it being FWD and trying to lift itself off teh dyno.

I do not know why you aer not getting the results you aer after. We see some engines respond amazingly well to mods, and the next car same mods only 1/2 as well. It may be that the next mod may finally bring it all together or make no further improvements. I too agree that essentially compression / head work is the next logical step to make it all work effectivly and more efficiently but whether you want to go that way......

I agree also - I beleive that placing all these mods onto a manuel magna instead will see you reap the rewards immedietly. Easier to tune, better and more accurat to tune without the huge torque sucking auto behind it, you would know straight away what we are talking about.

This is not to say that auto model magnas cannot be modified. we have done many of these mods to auto models in WA and seen some great results.

AS far as quarter mile times go - again being an auto you are always goign to struggle into the 14's even with mods. The torque of teh car is just being killed - perfect example.

3.0 Mivec in the magna we did - eclipsed all other magnas except a turbo one on the dyno, yet with all its mods, can only run a mid 14 although that could probably drop down to a 14 flat with more work. Simple reason is that being only a 3.0 with low torque, it just doesnt have the muscle to push the car that hard.

I don't know if this has answered your question or not - once I start rambling like this I tend to just keep going and going. But I hope it helps.

I tried to read your dyno sheets but they were just too small for me to get an accurate idea of the changes.You have to click on them, David :P

You have to click on them, David :P

Tried that loaded up on another page but they won't expand larger for me :nuts: I didn't think I was totally crazy - yet :badgrin:

Dave,

Thanks for you're insight..... I'll need to sit down when I've got some spare time and re-read all the constructive comments I've received from everyone and try and absorb it all some more.

Just to clarify a few things, the car is a tiptronic auto - so holding in a gear while dyno tuning shouldn't have been a major issue (apart from the automatic downshifting at low revs). All dyno runs and indeed tuning were done on dyno dynamics dyno's at 3 different workshops.

One question you might be able to answer Dave with regards to the tuning - is there anything that should be taken into account when tuning regarding the air intake temperature?? I understand (and I may be wrong) that the MAF sensor measures air temp. Given the distance between the MAF sensor and the engine, and the amount of metal piping the air runs thru (in close proximity to the radiator and transmission), is there someway the emanage can compensate for the likely hood that the air actually entering the cylinders is probably significantly higher temp than the same air when it passed thru the MAF sensor??

Dave,

Thanks for you're insight..... I'll need to sit down when I've got some spare time and re-read all the constructive comments I've received from everyone and try and absorb it all some more.



Black beard, today I'll grab out my before and after dyno sheets for my 3l manual, it's just got 100mm CAI piping and a berklee muffler change and it's basically gained as much as yours with your changes. Also I gained 6kph and .5 seconds at the drags and from memory gazza with his tj 3.5 had an exhaust and a pod filter and was running 15.7 with a stuffed auto tranny - so theres some food for thought. Frustrating **** but I guess it's just gotta be broken down and worked through till the problem shows itself :(

Matthius

Tried that loaded up on another page but they won't expand larger for me :nuts: I didn't think I was totally crazy - yet :badgrin:

Dave - try looking at the original post again: (Full sized images linked directly into post)
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showpost.php?p=408195&postcount=1

If you still can't read them......... your monitor resolution must be pretty damn high :D

My apologies to all the dialup users who are yet to view this tread for the first time :badgrin: .

Blackbeard: I was in the same boat as you when i started looking at mods for my VRX.

I came to a different conclusion and sold the car before emptying my wallet on it. Im not saying you should sell it though, but if you think $150 per kw gained is a good deal then you need your head read..

The magna isnt designed (engine wise) to be a fast NA car without spending big kahuna's on it, and with the 'kits' available to turbo/supercharge the car, they arent exactly a cheap way to gain kilowatts.

Some people are after something different and fast, and i say "Awsome, goodluck with that".

Others are after a go fast car the requires little money to be spent doing it.

The question you need to ask yourself is which side of the fence do you want to be on?

(somewhat unique and fast at the cost of your wallet, or be one of the crowd with an exceptionally fast car)

Blackbeard: I was in the same boat as you when i started looking at mods for my VRX.

I came to a different conclusion and sold the car before emptying my wallet on it. Im not saying you should sell it though, but if you think $150 per kw gained is a good deal then you need your head read..

The magna isnt designed (engine wise) to be a fast NA car without spending big kahuna's on it, and with the 'kits' available to turbo/supercharge the car, they arent exactly a cheap way to gain kilowatts.

Some people are after something different and fast, and i say "Awsome, goodluck with that".

Others are after a go fast car the requires little money to be spent doing it.

The question you need to ask yourself is which side of the fence do you want to be on?

(somewhat unique and fast at the cost of your wallet, or be one of the crowd with an exceptionally fast car)

What you say makes alot of sense. I've never been one to go with the rest of the crowd. And I've always liked the idea of driving a bit of a 'sleeper', when I got the magna I saw abit of sleeper potential - so I guess that explains it abit.

And just when I was beginning to think there was nothing more to Bain than; 'Ban and Lock, Ban and Lock......' :D

hey all, been reading this forum for ages thought i should probably start saying stuff (wise?...... yet to be seen)

anyways, have to say it looks like something's off in all that, i've the got same car (tj2 tip) with less than half those mods and i've noticed quite a good difference (no dyno to prove it, just scared passengers)

one thought tho, when i had my 60,000 service (pre mods) they replaced the spark plugs and it felt like they'd replaced the engine..... so yeah if it's some time (60,000kms as it would seem it was in my case) since they've been changed, that may be a fairly cheap thing to validate.....

hope you see some the Kws that rig deserves

hey all, been reading this forum for ages thought i should probably start saying stuff (wise?...... yet to be seen)

anyways, have to say it looks like something's off in all that, i've the got same car (tj2 tip) with less than half those mods and i've noticed quite a good difference (no dyno to prove it, just scared passengers)

one thought tho, when i had my 60,000 service (pre mods) they replaced the spark plugs and it felt like they'd replaced the engine..... so yeah if it's some time (60,000kms as it would seem it was in my case) since they've been changed, that may be a fairly cheap thing to validate.....

hope you see some the Kws that rig deserves

Thanks for the input (and clarification that you're car has responded well to fewer mods) - hell I feel pretty privelliged that I prompted your first post on AMC (Welcome BTW!!).

I replaced all plugs with NGK irridiums when I did the plennum chamber swap that was at about 60,600Km on the odometer (couple of weeks after the 60K service).

haha! no worries mate, dunno what order u did everything but i have to say when the extractors went on my car it was a new ball game, auto or no, even without a chip the car rushes to 6k betta (at like 70+ kmph, like.... who's idea was that? :nuts: )

hope u can find a mechanic that loves magna engines and wants to take one apart..... cos that car SHOULD be pretty darn quick methinks

May not be heaps fast, but it sure sounded friggen sweet on the murwillumba cruz the other day :cool:

my bet.

strip your parts out of your car and make it back to stock

sell it and buy a Manual TJ, like a sports, ralliart or vrx maybe

re install all the mods then u might get a decent power figure for all the bucks u spent

Watch this space............

mate ur car is def alot quicker than my car....
when i get back from my lil half vacation ill let u have a drive and feel what a stock magna feels like to drive.
that day u took me for a spin with e and al it was hella quick man and is def not gutless.

mate ur car is def alot quicker than my car....
when i get back from my lil half vacation ill let u have a drive and feel what a stock magna feels like to drive.
that day u took me for a spin with e and al it was hella quick man and is def not gutless.

I'm glad it felt quick to you Pete....... with nearly 400kg of QMD's finest in the car :D :redface:

@ ffeeky - glad it sounds good........ I consider it to be a pretty quiet exhaust system, but you can definetly hear each individual cylinder firing off when its idling......, and it makes a cool sound when you back off the loud pedal (slight little crackle, plus a whoosh from the induction mods :badgrin: ). However if all I wanted was a car that sounded tough....... I'd still have lots of money in my bank account :cry:

Have you thought your fuel pump is no good? Change the fuel filter maby aswell. I'd say the AFM being so far away would do something aswell, look at any car from factory and there all pretty close to the engine. Try going back to a pannel filter, when I put it back on I got a huge gain in power and better fuel economy compared to the Oval Pod I had. The stock magna intake system is pretty good I reckon, it's pretty straight and direct. Maby you engine is just not healthy from factory? I'd say look at the Fuel system from the tank forward.

Have you thought your fuel pump is no good? Change the fuel filter maby aswell. I'd say the AFM being so far away would do something aswell, look at any car from factory and there all pretty close to the engine. Try going back to a pannel filter, when I put it back on I got a huge gain in power and better fuel economy compared to the Oval Pod I had. The stock magna intake system is pretty good I reckon, it's pretty straight and direct. Maby you engine is just not healthy from factory? I'd say look at the Fuel system from the tank forward.

i think they would've picked that up putting in the greddy. Definately get someone to check out the tune. Hows your compression?? I'd also go through mitsu to get them to check for fault codes. Peace of mind to know exactly how your cars running, i believe you want that otherwise you wouldn't have put the mods on yourself. Some one in the magna community needs to make friends with tuners.

So what's the general concensus here?? I kinda need to analyse the responses....... Do we mostly think its:

(A) - Mods have improved the car performance (particularly in the mid range), I just can't notice it as much, cause it was all done gradually. (Dyno figures from one dyno to another can't be compared, the the 1/4 mile run was done in the middle of summer in QLD)

(B) - My expectations of the power outputs the listed mods would deliver were abit over ambitios, add the 4spd auto to the equasion....... It's about as good as it's gonna get without either a manual conversion, or a very costly auto build up.

(C) - There's something fundamental wrong with the car mechanically

(D) - The tune in it is mediocre to say the least

*edit* - I'd also like to add that at no stage in the 'build up' did I notice a deterioration in performance...... I just don't have the output I initially expected I would net. Also, as far as I'm concerned - the car has been in mechanically A1 condition since I purchased it

could've been a hot night too, my car ran a 15.1 stock in 5* temp. It was quite humid too on wednesday night...

buggered if i know but that tune, might have to find someone experienced in tuning, i know one guy but he might try to hit you up... fken prejudice against magnas.

Have you thought your fuel pump is no good? Change the fuel filter maby aswell.

I know this tread has pretty much run its course, (thanks everyone for the input) but I was just after some clarification regarding the possibility of a fuel delivery issue.

Is it safe to say the if the Fuel Pressure Guage on the FPR shows the fuel rail pressure increases everytime the throttle is pressed - that there is no issue with either the fuel pump or filter?? Surely if I wasn't getting enough fuel - you'd see the pressure drop or stay the same??

yeh might just be a small thing, but mine was lacking fuel at top end due to a clogged fuel filter, $6 later and a 5 min job it was all good again. and dammm there was alot of crap in the filter.. as for the fuel pump i heard they are good for up to 200hp maybe more... i got me a walbro one caz of my mods

How long since the filter han been changed? I'm not sure how it could be linked unless it was rather clogged but something I may have noticed is that with several people whinging about poor economy, whenever mine gets serviced, the economy appears to go up again to what I'm used to.

How long since the filter han been changed? I'm not sure how it could be linked unless it was rather clogged but something I may have noticed is that with several people whinging about poor economy, whenever mine gets serviced, the economy appears to go up again to what I'm used to.

Is that question aimed at me or Meh? If me, AFAIK - the fuel filter has never been changed, unless it's part of any of the logbook services up to 60,000kms, in which case it's been changed at the correct service intervals. As for fuel economy - thats definetly the one area that I can't deny the Mods have made a BIG difference..... I used to get around 12.5L/100km (we're talking averaged over 2000+km's - I hardly ever reset the trip computer) when the car was stock. I now get no more than 10.2L/100km - (averaged over considerable km's) same driving conditions, same mix of driving style, same ****ty 4spd auto robbing all my power lol .

I've got a question for Meh based on his comments above though........ How were you able to diagnose that a clogged fuel filter?? or was it just a case of something not being right and by process of elimination - it was determined that changing the fuel filter fixed the problem?

surely if it was anything like this it would have been diagnosed on the dyno ?

Is that question aimed at me or Meh? If me, AFAIK - the fuel filter has never been changed, unless it's part of any of the logbook services up to 60,000kms, in which case it's been changed at the correct service intervals. As for fuel economy - thats definetly the one area that I can't deny the Mods have made a BIG difference..... I used to get around 12.5L/100km (we're talking averaged over 2000+km's - I hardly ever reset the trip computer) when the car was stock. I now get no more than 10.2L/100km - (averaged over considerable km's) same driving conditions, same mix of driving style, same ****ty 4spd auto robbing all my power lol .

I've got a question for Meh based on his comments above though........ How were you able to diagnose that a clogged fuel filter?? or was it just a case of something not being right and by process of elimination - it was determined that changing the fuel filter fixed the problem?

Just a note; i change my fuel filter every 30000kms, they only cost me $30 and take around 10-15mins to change (make sure u depressurise the fuel system before undoing the fuel line)

Is that question aimed at me or Meh? If me, AFAIK - the fuel filter has never been changed, unless it's part of any of the logbook services up to 60,000kms, in which case it's been changed at the correct service intervals. As for fuel economy - thats definetly the one area that I can't deny the Mods have made a BIG difference..... I used to get around 12.5L/100km (we're talking averaged over 2000+km's - I hardly ever reset the trip computer) when the car was stock. I now get no more than 10.2L/100km - (averaged over considerable km's) same driving conditions, same mix of driving style, same ****ty 4spd auto robbing all my power lol .

I've got a question for Meh based on his comments above though........ How were you able to diagnose that a clogged fuel filter?? or was it just a case of something not being right and by process of elimination - it was determined that changing the fuel filter fixed the problem?

mate when he was tuning my car he was saying that top end it was starting to starve for fuel, but i got a big 550hp pump in there so it wasnt that. so he just said fuel filter would be clogged. and surely enough when i changed it u shoulda seen all the brown crap that come out...
u should look into doin it, its not expensive for the filter, wont take u long to change

mate when he was tuning my car he was saying that top end it was starting to starve for fuel, but i got a big 550hp pump in there so it wasnt that. so he just said fuel filter would be clogged. and surely enough when i changed it u shoulda seen all the brown crap that come out...
u should look into doin it, its not expensive for the filter, wont take u long to change

Yeah - might look into doing that...... changed fuel line filter on other cars before - no big drama.