this is a bit of a random one, but last night i got totally blown DOWNHILL by a manual TH...this was going full bore to 80 in a 80 zone btw. wasnt sure if it was a 3.0 or 3.5... but i got thrashed hardcore...

the q is, do u reckon that if i had CAI and exhause that an auto could beat a manual??

nope not a chance

unless u have a 3.5 and raced a 3l

****! i swear ever since last night i been on carsales and stuff i want a manual

****! i swear ever since last night i been on carsales and stuff i want a manual
Then get one. It's the best mod you can do. But seriously, a manual is worth almost a second down the quarter mile, are better to drive and have less issues later on in life.

i was looking at carsales im justgoing to wait for a TJ or TL VRX manual

for performace (unless u've got a tricked out 10 second car with a performance auto box) manual is better.. gear ratios better..

however for me (and this is not defence just because i have an auto) i drive ~ 2.5 hours a day in peak hour traffic 5 days a week... i've done it in an auto and a manual.. and the convenience of an auto is unbeatable :)

if i was to buy a weekend car it would be manual, but 5 days of pain aint worth it :)

sorry to interupt, but are you serous? auto can put almost a second onto your quarter mile time????

holy freeken crap!

i didnt know there was THAT much power loss....wow......something to think about!

sorry to interupt, but are you serous? auto can put almost a second onto your quarter mile time????


i think thats mainly the True auto's not the tipronic style auto's ... though in TL and higher i belive most of them were 5 speed auto so its not so bad

yeah the 5 speed auto's arent any where near as bad, but as my dyno sheets say: 4 speed auto with single muffler got 100kw atw, manual conversion and 2nd muffler got 127.7kw atw!?! and yes you can feel the difference hugely!

as u cn probably tell, i got the TR V6 Auto...would any of you be able to give me a slight kw figure in what im losing


OMG I SO WANNA MANUAL NOW!!!!!!!!!

']sorry to interupt, but are you serous? auto can put almost a second onto your quarter mile time????

holy freeken crap!

i didnt know there was THAT much power loss....wow......something to think about!

It's not just power loss, everyone seems to forget that in a magna the autos are a 3.33 diff ratio and the manuals are a 3.76, you have a look at the diff ratio of a hsv as compared to an ss 3.75/3.45 or at the diff ratio of a silvia or skyline - there all in the 4's. Shorter ratios mean the engine has more advantage over the wheels which leads to easier acceleration - this comes at the cost of top speed. Next time you get a chance check a manual magna doing 100kph, it'll be doing over 2500 whereas an auto will be doing around 2200.

Also an manual lets you choose your launch revs if you know how to use one you will launch harder than an auto - case in point Tim-E, 2.1 60' time, show me an auto that manages that.

Matthius

i myself own a manual TH.. i have driven a friends auto th.. and yeh.. mine jus shat all over it.. so if ure intending on buyin another magna.. get a manual if ya can..

also.. i have no issues drivin a manual in peak traffic.. i have been drivin since i was 7 always in a manual except for when drivin the old mans soarer.. so any traffic conidtions for me is good with a manual..

Also an manual lets you choose your launch revs if you know how to use one you will launch harder than an auto - case in point Tim-E, 2.1 60' time, show me an auto that manages that.

Matthius

cheers for the mention, but i havent managed a 2.1 60 foot time ever :P a low 2.2 is my best IIRC :D

back before i had done anything to my 3ltr 97 magna i raced my friends 97 3.5ltr verada, mine's manual his is auto, i had a car length or more before i got to teh other side of the traffic lights, a manual whoops ass anyday,ill put up with it in the traffic for the four round abouts on teh way home :D

MANUAL OF COURSE, But in an XR6 Turbo the auto is quicker. 5speed Magna manaul is quicker than a 5 speed Auto and the 5 speed auto is quicker than a 4 speed auto. It depends on what the ratios are in the box and diff as said before. I would love to get a manual again but i would lose my best car and would have to start from scratch again.

ok so do u think tho that if u modded up an auto a bit it could be quicker than a manual? I dotn want to spend too much, im just looking at CAI, exhaust, a new throttle body maybe some other minor improvements... its just not worth it for me at the moment to sell my car to buy a manual... if i couild i wouild so im trying to compensate for it!

Is there any autos which HAVE run 15 second 400m's?

The manuals seem to do it.

xzbt's manual TH owns my auto TH. i also raced a 3.0 TF manual, owned by one of the guys from AMC last night.... he caught me when he changed to third. both cars are stock engine wise.

xzbt's manual TH owns my auto TH. i also raced a 3.0 TF manual, owned by one of the guys from AMC last night.... he caught me when he changed to third. both cars are stock engine wise.

finally you post admitting I pwn j00 :badgrin:

Is there any autos which HAVE run 15 second 400m's?

The manuals seem to do it.

My 4sp auto TJII got 2x 15.5's and 2x 15.6's on a humid qld night (26 deg air / 30 deg track) last week at willowbank raceway. Some of you might have seen my thread about the fact that I've spend a fair amount of money on mods to this car and the gains have been considerably less that my expectations.

My mistake - assuming that the difference between a 5spd manual and a 4spd auto would only really equate to about 0.5 of a second down the 400m. My mods in a manual and I should own 14's all day long.

Best 60 foot time of 2.4, trap speed of 92.8mph. Probably not bad for an auto magna....... but I wasn't happy. Take it from me......... a CAI and muffler will not make a auto 3.5L come anywhere near a stock manual 3.5L - probably will have trouble catching a stock 3.0L manual magna.

I've since test driven a stock TJII manual.......... and it pulls harder than mine
:redface:

I still would prefer the 5 speed tip tronic way sweeter shifts!!!!

ive found a magna TJ sports 112k...for 14900... u reckon thats a bit exxy? from a dealer this is

Then get one. It's the best mod you can do. But seriously, a manual is worth almost a second down the quarter mile, are better to drive and have less issues later on in life.

when you say less issues wat do u mean by that?

and one more question for u guys... how many kws does at TJ sport have??? is it 155 or 163? is the 163 for the VRX only or?????????????

and one more question for u guys... how many kws does at TJ sport have??? is it 155 or 163? is the 163 for the VRX only or?????????????
163kw. VRX, GTV and Sport only. :D

My 4sp auto TJII got 2x 15.5's and 2x 15.6's on a humid qld night (26 deg air / 30 deg track) last week at willowbank raceway. Some of you might have seen my thread about the fact that I've spend a fair amount of money on mods to this car and the gains have been considerably less that my expectations.

My mistake - assuming that the difference between a 5spd manual and a 4spd auto would only really equate to about 0.5 of a second down the 400m. My mods in a manual and I should own 14's all day long.

Best 60 foot time of 2.4, trap speed of 92.8mph. Probably not bad for an auto magna....... but I wasn't happy. Take it from me......... a CAI and muffler will not make a auto 3.5L come anywhere near a stock manual 3.5L - probably will have trouble catching a stock 3.0L manual magna.

I've since test driven a stock TJII manual.......... and it pulls harder than mine
:redface:
unfortunatly, thats what you get with auto's. correct me if im wrong, mitsu still havent designed a locking stall converter, so boomb there goes at least 5% of your power through fluid friction in the stallie.

I still would prefer the 5 speed tip tronic way sweeter shifts!!!!

WTF ? dude, if you think an auto ever shifts better than a good manual driver you need to learn to shift a manual :)

Matthius

unfortunatly, thats what you get with auto's. correct me if im wrong, mitsu still havent designed a locking stall converter, so boomb there goes at least 5% of your power through fluid friction in the stallie.

Yeaps no lock up, always slipping, always costing power and fuel :( stupid stupid stupid

Matthius

I still would prefer the 5 speed tip tronic way sweeter shifts!!!!
It's still an auto :bowrofl:


when you say less issues wat do u mean by that?
Many autos die after a fair bit of mileage due to heat / friction and not being looked after. Slipping it to neutral at the lights and stuff like that should prolong their life. The manuals seem to be tough as nails. They should have come with oil coolers from factory. That was one of the few mods that the AWD Magna team did to their car while it was racing in the ARC.

Yeaps no lock up, always slipping, always costing power and fuel :( stupid stupid stupid

Matthius
cant all be up to the technology level of a VS commodore :P

They should have come with oil coolers from factory. That was one of the few mods that the AWD Magna team did to their car while it was racing in the ARC.
Do you mean the auto's? They do come with a factory cooler, and a good one at that.

Do you mean the auto's? They do come with a factory cooler, and a good one at that.

Pretty sure they didn't. Not the third gens at any rate.

Is there any autos which HAVE run 15 second 400m's?

The manuals seem to do it.
my TJII tippy runs 15's all day long...with big stero in boot,1/2tank of fuel and spair tyre...
only mods are cat back exhaust and Cai...
my quickest time down the 1/4 was all around 15.5's..and that was before i had the exhaust done...and i only has the car for about 1 week so i didnt really know when to shift the tippy.
i think u meant 14's?maybe?

Pretty sure they didn't. Not the third gens at any rate.
Its about 80cm long and 7cm tall, holds about a litre of transmission fluid and is at the front of every auto 3rd gen from the factory.

Its about 80cm long and 7cm tall, holds about a litre of transmission fluid and is at the front of every auto 3rd gen from the factory.

yup! mines still there, just not connected to anything... i wonder what i could hook it up to?

Wow.... I learnt something about my car today, and from TC!!! Never thought I'd see the day :bowrofl: :bowrofl: .

I guess you could pump engine oil thru it couldn't you? arent most aftermarket transmission / oil coolers pretty much interchangable?

after almost 4 yrs since this forum was created i thought it would be common knowledge by now....

want a cruiser, buy an auto verada

want a sporty/family car that can pull high 14's low 15's stock, buy a 3.5ltr manual....preferably a TJII sports,VRX or ralliart

Check the quarter mile registry there is a auto 3.5 that pulled a 14.7 and also i pulled a 15.3 twice in one night being the only two runs i got.Not debateing the man vs auto thing just some comments bout autos not being able to pull low 15s.
Ps. The only mod i had at the time of the runs was a k&N panel filter. :D
Oooops sorry tippy 5 spd here! :confused:

has anyone got a website, or a refernce chart, or a link i can visit in regards to the 2nd gen stock times?

ive been told my V6 TR Auto will do about an 18sec quarter mile :rant:


on GT4 my 1HP merc pulled a 1 minute 34 second quarter - haha beast

Check the quarter mile registry there is a auto 3.5 that pulled a 14.7 and also i pulled a 15.3 twice in one night being the only two runs i got.Not debateing the man vs auto thing just some comments bout autos not being able to pull low 15s.
Ps. The only mod i had at the time of the runs was a k&N panel filter. :D
Oooops sorry tippy 5 spd here! :confused:


can that 14.7 be confirmed? For some reason i thought that was a g-tech time. Anyone have a timeslip?

I thought you had to have a timeslip for the registry didnt know that they accepted g-tech times.Sorry if this is the case. :confused:

Is there any autos which HAVE run 15 second 400m's?

The manuals seem to do it.
i think ralliart boy did a 14.9 in his auto ralliart

One more question, which gearbbox would last longer in everyday driving???? Ive just seen a few posts here about people going through clutches something severe.

One more question, which gearbbox would last longer in everyday driving???? Ive just seen a few posts here about people going through clutches something severe.
:shock:

i think the saying goes..

"better built, better backed.. just **** house autos"

One more question, which gearbbox would last longer in everyday driving???? Ive just seen a few posts here about people going through clutches something severe.
Cos people ride their clutches something severe.

fair enoyugh.... i dont plan to do donuts or flat change launches i will be doing everyday normal driving, i jsut wanted to know how it compares to an auto. ive currently got an auto TH with 180 clicks and shes doin sweet as

The gearboxes are tough as nails(manual that is) and as far as going through clutches have a look at the crossection of people on AMC that bought manuals and why - they all flog the living **** out of them, well most anyway - the daily punters are usually autos. So it's a bit cruel to look at the clutch life time on AMC :P

Matthius

hey all,

just want your advice, i ahve a 1999 TH advance with 185kms. I went to a dealer in brisbane and i love this 2002 TJ sports manual with climate and dual bags the updated model.pewter. as u may all know id like a manual but now it coems down to is it really worth it... They want 8500 changeover. the sports has 101,000kms and the timing belt has been changed. do u think this sounds worth it??

I need some quick replies to make a decision!!!!!!!!! thanks all!

hey all,

just want your advice, i ahve a 1999 TH advance with 185kms. I went to a dealer in brisbane and i love this 2002 TJ sports manual with climate and dual bags the updated model.pewter. as u may all know id like a manual but now it coems down to is it really worth it... They want 8500 changeover. the sports has 101,000kms and the timing belt has been changed. do u think this sounds worth it??

I need some quick replies to make a decision!!!!!!!!! thanks all!

BUY IT. Sounds like a top deal!

Redbook says your TH Advance (http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/au/vehicle/prices.php?key=MITS99FR) should be worth somewhere around $5,500 to $9,500 depending on condition and k's... it also says max k's should be about 150.... you have an extra 35k's so expect about $7,000ish if in good nick...

And they think that the TJ Sports (http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/au/vehicle/prices.php?key=MITS02BR) is worth around $12,500 to $15,500 with a max of 75k on the clock. the sport has 101k's....

basically, at $8500 change over, tell them to go and get a mental health check. should only be about $6-6500 change over. if they want to sell it, they will drop the price.with those k's, its not worth 15, more like 12ish..... if its in good nick..... thats an extra 25,000k's....

well they got a sticker on it for 14990. They said 8500 is the best they can offer me. But from my point of view, its 8500 on anotehr magna. NOt that there is anything wrong with magnas thats all,i already got one. Its just that my car needs a few of this and that done and id love a manual but not for 8500....

Redbook says your TH Advance (http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/au/vehicle/prices.php?key=MITS99FR) should be worth somewhere around $5,500 to $9,500 depending on condition and k's... it also says max k's should be about 150.... you have an extra 35k's so expect about $7,000ish if in good nick...

And they think that the TJ Sports (http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/au/vehicle/prices.php?key=MITS02BR) is worth around $12,500 to $15,500 with a max of 75k on the clock. the sport has 101k's....

basically, at $8500 change over, tell them to go and get a mental health check. should only be about $6-6500 change over. if they want to sell it, they will drop the price.with those k's, its not worth 15, more like 12ish..... if its in good nick..... thats an extra 25,000k's....

Don't take too much notice of Redbook. They reckon my XR6T is worth $27,500 - $30,500 as a trade...I've been offered $36,000 and that was after discounting $8,000 off the new car.

Last year they said my EL XR8 was worth about $11,000 - $13,000 as a trade, but $8,500 was the best offer even though it was in better condition than usual and only had 95,000km.

Don't take too much notice of Redbook. They reckon my XR6T is worth $27,500 - $30,500 as a trade...I've been offered $36,000 and that was after discounting $8,000 off the new car.

Last year they said my EL XR8 was worth about $11,000 - $13,000 as a trade, but $8,500 was the best offer even though it was in better condition than usual and only had 95,000km.

hmm, its the luck of the sales person at the dealership, they are all different. just redbook is one of the publics tricks to getting their prices where we want them, basically, throwing the book at them. they work to it, so use it to your advantage.

i wouldnt settle for $8500, but i wouldnt say thats that, id go back and talk to them further and tell them that you can only get $6800 from the bank, when they say no, get them to tell you what they want, maybe 7800... then tell them to make it say 7300, and tell them you'll get the extra $500 off your gf or some bull**** like that, thats what they expect. if you went in there and gave them the 8500, they would be laughing about it for weeks!

i wouldnt settle for $8500, but i wouldnt say thats that, id go back and talk to them further and tell them that you can only get $6800 from the bank, when they say no, get them to tell you what they want, maybe 7800... then tell them to make it say 7300, and tell them you'll get the extra $500 off your gf or some bull**** like that, thats what they expect. if you went in there and gave them the 8500, they would be laughing about it for weeks!

Depends whether that was a negotiated changeover or what they offered straight away. If they offered $8500 straight away then I agree...play their game!

']sorry to interupt, but are you serous? auto can put almost a second onto your quarter mile time????

holy freeken crap!

i didnt know there was THAT much power loss....wow......something to think about!

Its not power loss, its simply cause the manual has short gear ratios. Manual wins that 1 second (over second gens, 5 speed auto magnas are only .7 seconds slower) in a lauch situation anyway. Plus, auto's sometimes arnt smart enough to change at the correct RPM where your car is producting its most power (slightly after that peak), which again is why tiptronic is better.

I honestly think that new trasmission with infinate gear ratios will blow away both of these transmission types when its developed further. Sorry forgot what its called. But basically, for your input type it ajusts the ratio instantly to what you want exactly, no kick down or downshift mambo jumbo :P

Its not power loss, its simply cause the manual has short gear ratios. Manual wins that 1 second (over second gens, 5 speed auto magnas are only .7 seconds slower) in a lauch situation anyway. Plus, auto's sometimes arnt smart enough to change at the correct RPM where your car is producting its most power (slightly after that peak), which again is why tiptronic is better.

I honestly think that new trasmission with infinate gear ratios will blow away both of these transmission types when its developed further. Sorry forgot what its called. But basically, for your input type it ajusts the ratio instantly to what you want exactly, no kick down or downshift mambo jumbo :P


that would be cvt (constantly variable transmission) i believe... honda have been using it for years... and almost got it perfected to... honda hrv has a 1 speed cvt auto.... and now the jazz has a 7speed cvt gearbox

i think mercedes have started using them too in the new 'M' Class :D

everyone is talking about the gear ratios and diff ratios and number of gears in the box...anyone thought that the auto gear box is also heavier than a manual gear box???? hence it makes an auto car slower as well?

It adds up.....The difference is about 20-30kg, depending on the model. Not a whole lot, but enough to certainly make a difference.

My verada is 100kg heaver than the base model manual. I might as well be carrying around a fat bastard in the passenger seat all the time.

It adds up.....The difference is about 20-30kg, depending on the model. Not a whole lot, but enough to certainly make a difference.

My verada is 100kg heaver than the base model manual. I might as well be carrying around a fat bastard in the passenger seat all the time.

100kg is alot of weight when it equates to alot more kws to carry that weight around...

Yes....I think everyone notices the drop in performance when they're carrying a fat bastard in the passenger seat :)

i got the manual VRX and it hurts the autos

Yes....I think everyone notices the drop in performance when they're carrying a fat bastard in the passenger seat :)

its all good i'm light as a feather... the car wouldn't know i'm in it...i'll have a milli sec over most people :D

Yes....I think everyone notices the drop in performance when they're carrying a fat bastard in the passenger seat :)

that would explain why my car is so slow without passengers... :rant: lol

On the topic of weight affecting performance...A few years ago Wheels did accelleration testing with 2 people then 4 people. The extra 2 people (approx 150kg) added nearly a whole second to the qtr mile time in the Falcon, Commode, Avalon. So 20 or 30kg will make a difference for sure, but I think the main reason for an auto being slower is not just gearing, its also the torque converter sapping up heaps of precious newton metres.

yeah the combination of extra weight, less gear ratios, worse final drive ratio, torque converter slippage (i think the magna autos can't lock, so this is always going on) all stack up against the auto.

yeah the combination of extra weight, less gear ratios, worse final drive ratio, torque converter slippage (i think the magna autos can't lock, so this is always going on) all stack up against the auto.

TE onwards were able to lock up in the top two gears. TM-TS were able to lock up all except for first. The only exeption is with the TF Sports, which is programmed not to lock up third when in manual mode.

Hey all,

Redbook says that my TF Sports Tip goes from 0-100km/h in 11sec??? It certainly feels faster than that (but feelings mean bugger all). But surely its not that slow. Anyone know if thats true? Kinda hoping it's not slower than my girls Mazda2. I know everyone goes on quarters but i'm used to 0-100km/h.


thats the info.
http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/au/vehicle/specs.php?key=MITS97HX

Also out of curiosity what does 140kw translate to kw at the wheels?

cheers

chris

the execs on the page says 10.2, in real life i think tf 3.0 auto's are around 9-9.5 sec car, havent timed myself yet, but it feel ok at the lights>? :)

also checked some facts from redbook, apparently camry and au goes to 100 in 8.8, th 3.5, 9s and vt 9.3, oh yeah something surpring was that exel 1.5 -- 9.8s, is the 3.0 autos that slow? this is getting depressing. lol

that would be cvt (constantly variable transmission) i believe... honda have been using it for years... and almost got it perfected to... honda hrv has a 1 speed cvt auto.... and now the jazz has a 7speed cvt gearbox

i think mercedes have started using them too in the new 'M' Class :D
:doubt: Ya duh what???? A 7 speed constantly variable transmission? That's just over kill you only need one cvt lol.

Nah the way of the future for auto's will be boxes like the Audi/VW DSG (direct shift gearbox) that use a manual style box but have two input shafts and two clutches. One clutch/input shaft drives 1st, 3rd, 5th and R while the second drives 2nd, 4th and 6th. These gearboxes have a minimal weight gain, no losses due to fluid transfer and a shift speed of four hundredths of a second!! :shock: Try beating that in a manual

the mitsi fto had smart transmission yrs ago, before merc, and the other posh car companies got into it, anyway, what is the 0-100 for commodore, i know the manual tf 3ltr is quicker than that, just after i bought the car my mate in teh passenger seat timed it at 7sec's, i would think it slightly less than that or magna is as quick as standard gt4 celica,

:doubt: Ya duh what???? A 7 speed constantly variable transmission? That's just over kill you only need one cvt lol.

Nah the way of the future for auto's will be boxes like the Audi/VW DSG (direct shift gearbox) that use a manual style box but have two input shafts and two clutches. One clutch/input shaft drives 1st, 3rd, 5th and R while the second drives 2nd, 4th and 6th. These gearboxes have a minimal weight gain, no losses due to fluid transfer and a shift speed of four hundredths of a second!! :shock: Try beating that in a manual

Alfa selespeed
BMW SMG
Ferrarri "F1 style"

Audis not exactly leading the pack.

Matthius

Yeah they aren't the first to use it but they are the first to have it in a large production run. Both Audi and VW are using it in all of their higher performance vehicles and eventually as the auto in all of them. It is also used in the Bugatti Veyron :drool:. Also I'm pretty sure that the BMW gearbox is a sequential manual gearbox, which is different.

Different in approach but the same in effect.
A gearbox without a torque converter which is automated.
Both bmw and alfa have these gearboxes readily available in ordinary cars. As far as I know the alfa selespeed outsells the manual or auto by a long way.

Matthius

the demise of traditional manuals makes Tim-E a sad panda :cry: