The Mitsubishi 380 has won the Challenge from its next closest rival, the BF Falcon, to be named New Zealand Large Car Of The Year.

Congratulations Mitsubishi!

Finally, people are starting to see sense.

Incidently NZ car of the year went to the new Golf.

Comments from NZ judges:

Mitsubishi 380 VRX:
"The 'big easy' is how the 380 comes across, with accessible performance, and a well-judged mix of handling competence and ride quality" - PL
"There's no better Aussie-made family car at present" - PO
"It is quiet, refined, and performs with distinction. I really hope it succeeds, not for the future of MMAL, but because it deserves to" - RM
"Some aspects of the interior are disappointing, but the engine has real muscle" - KC
"The 380 is good enough to get a name instead of a number" - DM
"Another valiant Aussie effort with the best refinement in this group and great seats" - RB

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3516706a30,00.html

Now atleast we have two sources saying that car is good rather then us just thinking it is good. 2006 should start off as a very good year for Mitsubishi; and will hopefully continue if an upgrade is planned along-side the launch of the VE.

For all of those saying the Falcon is better (alot of people actually) sucked in. I am sick of all this talk of the tranmission in the Falcon at work, it is driving me nuts. As well as this, despite how old the Commodore is now some work mates still think it is a better equipped car with a better engine??

All I can say is move over Falcodores here comes the 380 :gtfo: :badgrin:

I'm not wanting to cause a stir here but to me this NZ lot have no credibility what so ever. I find it interesting that the 380 bet the BF when every other comparison between the two has gone to the BF.
Even the RACV, who run the Australian Best Car awards, gave the nod to the BF. Remember that the 380 was compared with the BA Mk2 Falcon to win the Aussie Best large car award, not the BF which went on sale two weeks to late.

On a personal note, I drove both last week and to me the BF was the better car. The 380 wasn't bad, but all means, and if it wasn't for the lack of a split-fold rear seat I'd consider one.

I am sick of all this talk of the transmission in the Falcon at work
I think that's far enough when it's essentially the same transmission as a $300K BMW 760il and a $200K XJR.

so 6 guys with probably more than 200 years motoring experience behind them have no credability?

so 6 guys with probably more than 200 years motoring experience behind them have no credability?
You would have read why I believe they have no credibility so there’s no need to repeat myself, although I will. Other than this the 380 has never beaten a BF Falcon in a comparison. Doesn’t that look suspicious to you?

maybe the judges are'nt 'brown-nosed' by Ford in NZ like they are in Australia.....

I guess you cant say the 380 has NEVER beaten the BF in a comparison anymore....

maybe the judges are'nt 'brown-nosed' by Ford in NZ like they are in Australia.....
Fair enough if one journalist gave the BF the gong over the 380, but this contradicts what DRIVE, the CarsGuide, WHEELS Magazine, the RACV and any other journalists who've compared the two have said.
Speaking about brown nosing, it would be easier to bribe one group of journalists than four...


I guess you cant say the 380 has NEVER beaten the BF in a comparison anymore....
You're right so I'll rephrase it to "other than this, the 380 has never beaten a BF."

Regardless of what credibility the NZ judges have I am not suprised the 380 was chosen over the BF. I would have never picked the BF largely based on its design, with the doors nearly identical to the AU and the standard features offered in the car.

It is also the outside of the car people see first, and 99% of people probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the BF and the BA. So regardless of what is in the inside some people (such as myself) may still see it as an oldcar.

Despite the fact that the 380 was largely based on the Galant (well the front end looks quite different, back end is pratically the same), it is still considered a brand-new design by the public. Largely based on the fact that they have only recently appeared on our roads and even this time next year it will still be considered a fairly new design. A time at which the BF will have a design of which will be 4 years old from the BA and what, 7-8 years old from the few characteristics evident fromt he AU. Though the Falcon may have a 6-speed instead of a 5-speed in the Mitsu the Mitsu has more features in the base model and a much better warranty (which is probably another reason it has won twice).

Also a question about there transmission, I heard that it is German engineered (right?). Now where is it actually built? (I don't know much about this 6-speed, yet). I also know there Focus is German engineered and is acutally manufactured in South Africa... I was wanting to know whether this is the same or not.

Also a question about there transmission, I heard that it is German engineered (right?). Now where is it actually built? (I don't know much about this 6-speed, yet). I also know there Focus is German engineered and is acutally manufactured in South Africa... I was wanting to know whether this is the same or not.
To be honest I'm not sure where the tranmission is put together. It's designed by ZF Friedrichshafen AG who are German based (as you can tell by the name :) ) but it could be built anywhere as I know they build components everywhere. They're building suspension components for the VE Commodore in Adelaide next year although I'm led to believe that no transmissions will be built there.

To me the lack of styling changes with the BF over the BA was dissapointing but the judges shouldn't really take that into consideration because they're car enthusiasts, not my mother.
I can't see the doors being identical to the AU being much of an issue either although the standard equipment is a fair point. While the basic 380 craps on the basic Falcon (and Commodore) the Falcon does come with more power and traction control, the latter of whome is an important safety feature. Does the top of the range 380's come with ESP? I can't remember seeing it when I drove one. That also is a very important feature.

Yeah, I was dissapointed they didn't include ESP on the 380. I bloody hope they bring that in late next year. And yes I know what ESP is (our e46 has it) and I know Mitsubishi have it available to them as it is on the Evo IX (i think) and alot of there other vehicles have it in Japan.

Though, traction control isn't really very necessary when driving on sealed or non-wet bitumen roads. Though, I do feel that Mitsu should have included it on the Aus model as they do on the NZ one. I also wish they'd drop the steelies on the base model and include some alloys (even if they looked crap atleast they can't be taken off so easily). I could critisise the 380 for these minor things, but, my opinion is that there is less to complain about on the 380 then on the Falcon; but, this will change if Mitsu completely keep the current specs and an all-new Falcon is released during this time.

I didn't mean to make it sound like the BF is a bad car or anything, but people are beginning to think (or know) the 380 is better. That's not such a bad thing as Mitsubishi need sales more then Ford; though at the same time Ford shouldn't feel vunerable as they always sell more then Mitsu (unless there is some radical change) and people are starting to realise how much of a crap heap the transmission, exterior design, engine and interior are in the only other locally produced RWD sedan, the commondore (please don't get me started!). And because Ford have updated there model they should rise in sales on the Falcon while Holden's continue to decline.

I am actually quite surprised that the bf has won so much against the 380, becuase in todays society, everyone is wanting to save petrol, and there are less and less people going for larger cars.

However, it all comes down to personal preference.. what you like may be what someone else hates, and vice versa... both the 380 and the bf are equally good cars, and the main reason that the falcon wins is probably becuase of its box.... just remember, its advertised as the same box out of a bmw 7 series.... but its probably just the blue print of it, i very much doubt that it is identical. ford would have saved money on it by making it not a strong...

but its probably just the blue print of it, i very much doubt that it is identical. ford would have saved money on it by making it not a strong...It is exactly the same.

Until people have driven the BF 6 speed auto, you cant give your opinion on it. The best way to describe it is 1 continuous acceleration, no jerking between gears or harsh changes. It is also a aggressive sensing gearbox that has the ability to change down multiple gear (automatically) when cornering, accelerating etc etc., the gearbox is rated for 800nm of torque.

People just call it a 6 speed auto.. Its much much much more than that, coupled with Fords new Traction control (the ecu monitors, steering angle, wheel speed and angle, torque per wheel, gearbox and revs all in one - in the simplest explanations)

Test drive the XR6T with the 6 speed auto and you are blown away.. With the new box, added kw's and torque the XR6T is capable of a 13.6 stock, the SS posts around the same time but costs you an extra 7k.. Thats a bloody fast stock Family sedan.

Mitsubishi hasnt brought anything new to the table other than a different shaped magna with a mediocre interior and a 5/10 year warranty.

I agree with PaulST, every other magazine has given the BF as the winner (some have even noted their disappointment in not given a big enough facelift on the exterior. But why would you when so many people like it?)

So Ford have release highly refined engine, gearbox, quieter interior (due to upgraded sound deadening), better seats, telescopic driving wheel, TC, LSD, more power and torque, better suspension setup on the higher models and running on 91ron fuel and being more economic than its predecessor (including the Turbo variant which was previously 95 ron+) just to name a few.

Why would you buy a 380 GT (snicker at the GT label) when you can have an XR6T or XR8 that will outclass it in everyway (as has been proven by some big label Magazines and critics) for the same price ranges?

Im not being biased here as i really want mitsubishi to succeed (i was looking at the 380 when i purchased my current car), but before they can succeed, like Ford did when they bounced back with the introduction of the BA they need to build something Australian families want. (Not leasing companies)

I'm not wanting to cause a stir here but to me this NZ lot have no credibility what so ever. I find it interesting that the 380 bet the BF when every other comparison between the two has gone to the BF.
Even the RACV, who run the Australian Best Car awards, gave the nod to the BF. Remember that the 380 was compared with the BA Mk2 Falcon to win the Aussie Best large car award, not the BF which went on sale two weeks to late.

On a personal note, I drove both last week and to me the BF was the better car. The 380 wasn't bad, but all means, and if it wasn't for the lack of a split-fold rear seat I'd consider one.

I think that's far enough when it's essentially the same transmission as a $300K BMW 760il and a $200K XJR.
NZ judges are not biased like ours. NZ does not have car manufacturing plants and hence have
tarrifs to protect locally made cars etc. Thus there are no pressure on the judges to give better
marks for certain cars. All cars in NZ are imports.

About the ZF transmissions, I read in a magazine last month that BMW is not going to be using
ZF for its transmissions.

what why didnt ford win this award over the 380, how can this be, thats a ****ing joke. It should win everything, they must've been bribed, yep definately bribed.

My opinion; the interior of the ford is lacking; i was and still am thinking of a xr8 and looking at the 380 interior it has it all over it. You can barely hear the engine with your head under the bonnet and from what ive heard its a brilliant drive, gearbox is well designed etc...and made to last and remain economic.

hahaha aethetics of xr's in comparison to 380 hahahaha, my dad's statesman is luxury and the kj on veradas are as good in quality in the interior if not better, gotta love that v8 though

the only way a xr6T or xr8 will outclass is in its muscle, and mitsu have not brought out a performance variant yet. The 380 is to compete against n/a xr6 and 6cyl commo.

To some people the performance is not everything; i am not one of them. Mitsubishi's sports cars are the evo compare that to the other manufacturers varients.

Not biased my left foot; i am but i know the pros and cons of each.

what why didnt ford win this award over the 380, how can this be, thats a ****ing joke. It should win everything, they must've been bribed, yep definately bribed.

Not biased my left foot; i am but i know the pros and cons of each.
Even if I did believe that bias and bribing was involved, it’s a lot easier to bribe one group of journalists than 5+. But I don’t, because I happen to find all this bribing talk incredibly immature. The 380 wins so “it must be a good car” but the BF wins “ah… they’re all biased.”
:nuts:
You mentioned that "mitsu have not brought out a performance variant yet" but I'm sorry, what do you call the VRX? The salesperson I talked to said the VRX and GT were the sports cars of the range and there wasn't anything new coming for quite some time.



About the ZF transmissions, I read in a magazine last month that BMW is not going to be using
ZF for its transmissions.
That's right because ZF Friedrichshafen AG don't offer DSG technology that BMW's competitors have. It still doesn't take anything away from the transmission in the Falcon.

[QUOTE=PaulST]
You mentioned that "mitsu have not brought out a performance variant yet" but I'm sorry, what do you call the VRX? The salesperson I talked to said the VRX and GT were the sports cars of the range and there wasn't anything new coming for quite some time. [QUOTE]

Pfft im not worried mate your can jump all over the 380 in not being as good as the 8's and xr6T but i believe it to better the competition in it's aethetical styling etc (as its being marketed), the engine is very well built and thus its upgrade has been advertised. As before the only way the competitors have it over the 380 is in performance, by performance i mean on par with the magna ralliart; it was faster than all its competition v8's but technology has gone a long way in the last 3 years the vrx sportier auto with bling interior like an upgraded xr6 with a kit. it'll take an xr6 to im willing to bet.

Like i said try the evo on for size for the way your arguing (last time i checked it was running 13.1 for evo6 stock); the 380 is a more refined classy car and is being marketed as such; that engine has the same potential as the magna's which i find is why i love mine; i like being the underdog.

again i didnt say anything about actually being biast you mentioned the quite rediculous statement. I was just trying to highlight the way the 380 section is trolled and every discussion is turned to why the competition (namely bf) is better, they won best car award too and that has a very broad range of input. Get over it and stop blowing up when the bf doesnt win something, most off your arguments are irrelevent as your comparing forced induction or v8 to an n/a v6 with 200cc less displacement.

What you also have to keep in mind that in Australia and NZ the 380 won best large car award. Being an award for a large car and a performance car are too different awards for two different types of vehicles.

When talking about performance the NZ 380 VR-X outputs 180kw compared to the XR6's 190kw. Though at the same time the 380 comes across in a more stylish package with a much better interior and a better warranty. If you drive a 380 the shifting of the tranmission is rather good anyway, I couldn't complain and anyone changing from a commodore (or a BA or BF 4 speed) to a 380 would be suprised at how much better the 380's tranmission is.

Personally, I would buy the 380GT when I look at upgrading my car next year. Though, I do feel that it should have the MIVEC 3.8 to match the nameplate it carries to give it an edge over other 380 models (the VR-X perhaps could share this motor, though less tweaked for performance); and, once it has this motor perhaps you could start to compare thism model to an XR6T, but not a fuel guzzling V8 (being the XR8). In the meantime your comparisons are unorthadox.

Pfft im not worried mate your can jump all over the 380 in not being as good as the 8's and xr6T
Where did I say anything about the XR6Turbo or XR8? A 6-speed auto XR6 has been rated as a better and faster car than the 380 VRX by WHEELS magazine.

the engine is very well built and thus its upgrade has been advertised.
I'm not denying that.

by performance i mean on par with the magna ralliart
What on earth are you talking about? The Magna Ralliart costs around $50,000 didn't it? Sorry, but it was slower than the XR6T, XR8, SV8 and SS by quite some margin and its lack of sales proved that there were far better cars out there.

it was faster than all its competition v8's
I look forward to seeing your evidence...

Like i said try the evo on for size for the way your arguing (last time i checked it was running 13.1 for evo6 stock)
What has the Evo got to do with the price of fish? The Ford GT supercar will do 0-100km/h in 3.8 seconds, woop-dee-doo.

they won best car award too and that has a very broad range of input.
As I said above (I'm repeating myself a lot aren't I?) the 380 won the ABC best large car award because it was compared with the old BA2 Falcon. Since then the same people that gave the 380 the award have compared the 380 with the BF and the BF was declared the winner.

Get over it and stop blowing up when the bf doesnt win something, most off your arguments are irrelevent as your comparing forced induction or v8 to an n/a v6 with 200cc less displacement.
Me blowing up? Who's the one swearing here? I don't really see how most of my aguments are irrelevant either. Please explain...
Comparing forced induction or V8s? What the? WHEELS compared the XR6 with the VRX, and the Falcon won. Beside this post where did I mention the turbo or V8?


380 section is trolled and every discussion is turned to why the competition (namely bf) is better,
Trolling? We're having a mature discussion. So what if the BF is better? Should we all lie and say that it's not?

Paul, Bain, and soon to post Falcon Freak,

I've got a feeling that the BF may have been frowned upon because the six speed auto is only available on the xr6 models up. The base XT is rather still yawn-able with its four speed auto with traction control. Meanwhile the 380 is new from the ground up and has the same drivetrain combination across the range.

That said, personally I feel the XRs is the better car, especially the XR6T.

What on earth are you talking about? The Magna Ralliart costs around $50,000 didn't it? Sorry, but it was slower than the XR6T, XR8, SV8 and SS by quite some margin and its lack of sales proved that there were far better cars out there.

When released, the Ralliarts competitors were the Vx HSV XU6, the Au Falcon XR6, and the Au Falcon Xr8. In most testing, it anniallated them.


What has the Evo got to do with the price of fish? The Ford GT supercar will do 0-100km/h in 3.8 seconds, woop-dee-doo.


Just cos I can, the Lancer Evolution VIII FQ400 is the worlds fastest production car from a mass vehicle manufacturer. 0-100 in 3.5.

Who gives a continental what others think anyway.You buy what suits you and what you fancyin the end.That's how I ended up buying a Magna.

I know they are different models tj etc but when you talk about a ralliart i take it your talkin tj era ,paulSt have a read of this for performance on these models. Its a vrx not even a ralliart.:D
http://autoweb.drive.com.au/A_0660/cms/article.html

Forget the Falcon XR6 - in either HP or VCT guises. Forget the blown Commodore V6 - let alone the naturally aspirated one. The $50,000 supercharged HSV XU6? - in a straight line, wasted. Up the ante to eight cylinders, then. The Falcon XR8? - back in the rear vision mirror. In fact, you gotta go all the way up to the 63 per cent bigger engine capacity of the 5.7-litre Holden V8 to find any homegrown car that's faster...
:D

As before the only way the competitors have it over the 380 is in performance, by performance i mean on par with the magna ralliart;
To me that sounds like he's saying that the BF XR6T and XR8 along with the SV8 and SS are only on par with the Magna Ralliart.

Again, what was the price of the Magna Ralliart? Off the top of my head it was around $50,000 which is significantly more than the XR6 and S-Pack. At the time both the XR8s and SS were under $50,000 so the engine size doesn't matter, it's price that lines these cars next to each other and the SS would have ran rings around the Ralliart.

At the time of release of the ralliart was better and (according to facts), faster then the S and the XR6. Though to compare it to the the XR8 and SS of this time is not justified (a 6 can't generally be compared with an 8) and therefore, they shouldn't be compared.

Also, you shouldn't compare the XR8 and XR6T with the SS and the SV8. The XR8 and the XR6T are two much more updated cars that have a better trans, engine and interior. To top it off they are also faster and look a hell of a lot better. When comparing cars please dont compare Mitsubishi or Ford to Holden; because until the VE is out they don't make cars that are worthy of comparison.

Paul, Bain, and soon to post Falcon Freak,

I'm keeping out of this one.

FF

I'll be honest with you all, im starting to really not care what happens to MMAL. I mean, I would feel for the Mitsu workers if the Adelaide plant closed down, but thats about all. Honestly i was thinking about it the other day. I wouldnt be devastated if the 380 failed and MMAL went under. I hope it doesnt happen, but whats done is done, im not loosing sleep over it.

Australia is a bogan country and large FWD's will never succeed, even if exceptionally well engineered FWD's were produced, just as capable as RWD's.
Sad but true.

The Mitsubishi 380 is hands down better than the VZ Commodore and BF Falcon, but so was the TE Magna hands down better than the VS Commodore and EL Falcon back in 1996. Then Holden released the VT Commodore the following year and won the bragging rights to Family car of the year for 5 years. It will be interesting to see what happens when the VE Commodore is released in 2006. Either way I think the gap between Mitsubishi and Holden in the family sedan category will close with time.

/thread