Hey all
Im in desperate need of some advice about which audio setup I should get for my car. I have lost all faith in going to audio shops and talking to people who only wanna sell products for reasons other than its quality.(Learnt from overhearing a JB staff member telling another to "get ride of this s**t man, you know talk it up")

anyways, I only have about 1.5k (or less if possible) on amps, subs and fronts n rears. I know I wont be getting top of the range stuff with that kinda dosh but its my first time to buy all this gear. I already have a HU (Panasonic CQ-C8400W, is this a s**t Unit?) with all the sales before xmas, there were alot of packages put together by autobarn and some other places. One I saw caught my eye, which was all pioneer (I know some of you are like "man dont go pioneer"right now, but for my level, thats about as good as I can get , no?) it had :
Fronts : Ts-c160r 2-way 250W's (splits)
Rears : TSA-6981 4way 420W
mono amp : GM-D510m 1000w mono amp
4ch amp : GM6100F 600W 4/3/2ch amp
2x 12" 1000W TS-W306C/DVC subs in the pioneer box
1 farad capacitator and wiring kit

all this came to about $2100 . looking around on ebay and some stores that are running specials at the moment, I think I can get all this for $1500.
I really dont have much of an Idea about the tech side of all these products, and When I went to JB to talk about how much they could do that stuff for the guy just showed me Kicker stuff and gave me like a 2400 dollar price for it all. but, I really dont wanna spend that much. My question is/are, is the pioneer setup shown above good? price and quality wise? any problems I should know about???AND, is kicker exceptionally better? any way that a decent kicker set up will come into a 1500 price range? would love to get some input from anyone. from brisbane btw. Look forward to reading from you all. Peace

Holy crap man, if you can get all that Pioneer stuff for that much then go for it! only suggestion i have is to go the next 6x9's up - to the TS-A6991S...those things are amazing. And with those splits you have in the front coupled with those subs...woah. It will be an awesome system if it's set up right. I had the 6991S and TS-C1625 (one down from ures) combined with those subs and that setup was too loud for me to handle and was the best quality one in my little city here in WA. Hope this helps man.

I'm not really a fan of your speakers, but your subs are decent and your head-unit is nice. Be weary though, my headunit and my mates headunit both CQ-5400W are starting to play up.

i have those splits and pretty much those 6x9's as well in mine ... they go hard i also have an older model pair of pioneer 12" subs

the subs are ok but get a little confused with faster beat music so not really my choice of sub after trying them ... they are on a crossfire amp so the amp has more power than the subs

looked at upgrading my subs but still not sure what to get

i also have the pioneer speakers running off a crossfire 4 channel amp and they go hard :)

for a first system, thats mad.
Even getting a cap strait away, i want one.

But Pioneer makes good gear, are yur getting more top ennd pioneer stuff so all the better :D

There is nothing wrong with your proposed system.
Pioneer makes good stuff, I am running pioneer 6.5" coaxials and 6x9's in my car right now, and those subs would be my second recommendation after JBL GT1202D's.......

However, I think that high end Pioneer stuff is somewhat overpriced for what you get. I am talking about the upper range stuff here - (ie $449 splits) Once you start spending the money towards this 'better' gear, you can get just as good for less, or better quality for the same money.

If you are looking for the best system for the money ($1500-$2000) then if you buy that package of Pioneer, you won't get the best possible system for the money, but I should think that you would be happy with it.

I would go for different speakers in the front. Those splits are nice, but there are better for the money - $450 is a bit much. Focal might be better in this case.....possibly cheaper too. The 6x9's are fine however.

--------------------------------------
I suggest you look at all TUFFTR's threads in the audio section. If you want a good all-round system on a budget around $1500, that's what he is currently buying......

TUFF TR's System
HU: JVC KDG-615 (MP3, 3x RCA's) - $240 (on sale - JB HiFi.. usually bout $270, maybe $265)
Splits: 6.5" Clarions (no idea model) - $98 (on sale, marked down from $180)
Subs: 2x JBL GT-1202D's (12" 2x2ohms DVC) - $125 each
6x9s: JBL GTO 936's - $130 ($40 off on sale)
Amp1: 4x100WRMS Jaycar (new series, second hand from another AMCer, about $200 IIRC)
Amp2: Jaycar Monoblock (rated 800+WRMSx1@1ohm, most of us know it is virtually 1kW....) $399 rrp
Add a few hundred bucks for Power cabling, RCA's, deadening etc.....

I would have gone JBL GTO-606c splits myself, but meh... who cares. Love my JBL.
(This is the same stuff as infinity - all made by Harmon Kardon... parent company)

Better to spend a few extra dollars on power cabling and forget buying the capacitor. I did that a few days ago, finally bought me a 0 guage power kit (only $95 bucks, and it is stinger!!! - You will pay more like $150, still cheaper than a cap anyway)

When you are doing audio on a budget, you need to watch for specials and cheap quality stuff - like end of model equipment.

Hope that helps you somewhat.....

*Clarion SRS 1625 splits, ive seen these on sale for $125....i picked them up for $98 by chance....last pair......

and the jaycar mono you can get on ebay for about 300ish give or take

oh no... i'm being watched!!! :redface:

Thanks paul... couldnt drag that outta the grey matter for life or death....

Hey all, thanks for your replies so far. $1500 is a good price yeah, all new too btw. the fronts rrp at JB for $599 but I can get em for $239 so hopefully they are alright for that price range, yeah? I have been thinking of spending an extra 30 and getting the 5-way TS-A6991 rears, although the guy at JB said that it wouldnt matter with the bass being so loud and all... is that right? as for the capacitator, I think that I only needed that if my car was old, but its a 97 so it should be okay without.

From MitsiMonsta
Better to spend a few extra dollars on power cabling and forget buying the capacitor. I did that a few days ago, finally bought me a 0 guage power kit (only $95 bucks, and it is stinger!!! - You will pay more like $150, still cheaper than a cap anyway)

not sure about power cabling, sorry mitsi.. can someone tell me about 0 gauge powering kit and what it does? stinger is good? whats the diff between a cap and one of these?

also, sound deadening...is it really necessary? am I gonna here more vibration than music ?
lastly, anyone know of any places "not independant people, ie mate of a mate" who can connect this system up? and how much roughly?
some dude at autobarn told me about 400 but the guy at jb nearly S**t himself because it was apparently too cheap... 400 or less would be nice though lol.

peace guys and thanks for the help so far

Hey all, thanks for your replies so far. $1500 is a good price yeah, all new too btw. the fronts rrp at JB for $599 but I can get em for $239 so hopefully they are alright for that price range, yeah? I have been thinking of spending an extra 30 and getting the 5-way TS-A6991 rears, although the guy at JB said that it wouldnt matter with the bass being so loud and all... is that right? as for the capacitator, I think that I only needed that if my car was old, but its a 97 so it should be okay without.

From MitsiMonsta
Better to spend a few extra dollars on power cabling and forget buying the capacitor. I did that a few days ago, finally bought me a 0 guage power kit (only $95 bucks, and it is stinger!!! - You will pay more like $150, still cheaper than a cap anyway)

not sure about power cabling, sorry mitsi.. can someone tell me about 0 gauge powering kit and what it does? stinger is good? whats the diff between a cap and one of these?

also, sound deadening...is it really necessary? am I gonna here more vibration than music ?
lastly, anyone know of any places "not independant people, ie mate of a mate" who can connect this system up? and how much roughly?
some dude at autobarn told me about 400 but the guy at jb nearly S**t himself because it was apparently too cheap... 400 or less would be nice though lol.

peace guys and thanks for the help so far


As magnat said, a capacitor in the hand of a noob is a fire waiting to happen.
5 way?......gimmick.....they sound crap.
i just got some JBL 3 ways in and they sound freeken clear as anything
SD is nessassary if you dont want ...."BOOM.....*rattle*...."BOOM.....*rattle*
0ga isnt nessassary, it just has the least resistance? yeah? im sure that ones right, 2ga or 4ga should be fine mate.
a capacitor stores volatge or something and is backup for when u get a voltage drop.

feel free to correct me

']As magnat said, a capacitor in the hand of a noob is a fire waiting to happen.
5 way?......gimmick.....they sound crap.
i just got some JBL 3 ways in and they sound freeken clear as anything
SD is nessassary if you dont want ...."BOOM.....*rattle*...."BOOM.....*rattle*
0ga isnt nessassary, it just has the least resistance? yeah? im sure that ones right, 2ga or 4ga should be fine mate.
a capacitor stores volatge or something and is backup for when u get a voltage drop.

feel free to correct me


Tuff Nailed it.. No need for " Multi way Speakers"
they do not raise the power handling of the Voice Coil of the main woofer where most of the sound comes from...

Caps and Noobs do not Mix, Get a Cap as a Last thing, a Decent battery and proper wiring is Worth more then the cap..

Kicker make Great Gear, I rank them above Pioneer.
They are Equal in their Low Spec Gear but in the Higher end Kicker Kicks Pioneer, Pioneer make TV's and DVD players, Kicker make Speakers and Amps.. more Research is spent on developing better Speakers...

Audition Both before you choose..

Depending on the Music you listen to , will depend on which will be better for you..


I have Heard some Build Quality issues with some Panasonic Decks but they are the same as every other deck, eventually they all Break...

I have to go against the Grain and say Kicker gets my Vote..

A capacitor is just a storage of power close to the amp. It can discharge very quickly, so helping with those bass notes as the amps need to draw alot of current.

A thicker cable (0ga) will flow more current, instead of a thinner cable (8ga) which will draw say 70 amps, but the voltage drops as it is working hard to draw that power down a thin wire. In the mean time, a 0 guage will draw 250 amps with ease and still have a nice healthy 14odd volt potential difference.

It's just like a hose. The thicker the hose, the more water it can flow at higher pressure. A Capacitor is like a washer bottle connected near the hose nozzle. When the pressure drops, it can add extra water.... but this storage bottle has a tendency to catch fire or possibly explode.

All the capacitor will do is make your lights not dim on the bass hits.....There are some SQ benefits of a capacitor, but you need to be alot more experienced in Car Audio than you are now. You will learn when one is appropiate. All the SPL guys do not run capacitors as they actually reduce available voltage to the system (by resistance) in this case...

A stinger 0 guage cable kit with everything you need (except distro block and 4 guage to run to the amps) is about $180RRP. A capacitor is $200 or more, and then you have to add your sub-standard 8 guage wiring anyway. Best to do it right.

Stinger is a reputable car audio brand. Their cables and interconnects are very high quality. Audison Interconnect also make good wiring systems.

Best to make sure each amp has either it's own separate 4guage power supply (and appropriate ground, plus ground to battery negative terminal to complete the circuit) or a 2 guage (or better, 0 guage) power wire, then split by a distro block, with 4 guage running to each amp, plus approproate gounds (4 guage amp to ground, plus 2 or 0 gauge ground to negative battery terminal).

If you still have problems, look at getting your headlights run off a relay (see heathyoung's Headlight FAQ for more info... use the search button and type 'Headlight FAQ')

Hi Again,

Just wondering about sound deadening. :nuts: what is it? how is it applied? where does it go? around the speakers?on the doors? floor n boot??what does it cost? Thanks again

Thanks Mitsi, great feedback.

I agree that kicker is probably better than pioneer, but, I think it is just a little bit over my price range, sorry to say. as for rears, is it worth getting a different kind of rears than the TSA-6991's or TSA-6981's? price for the 6991's is about $170. so a better speaker for that price .. Im all ears. are the 91's okay or really s**thouse? what are the JBL's worth roughly?

About the wiring. Mitsi you gave heaps of input on the wiring from the amp to the battery etc.. thanks heaps... but if someone from JB or autobarn do the install, are they gonna be smart enough to do it like you said or different? I dont think I could remember ghow to explain all that, so Id have to show em what you wrote dude, lol. If I get the stinger wiring pack that was suggested, I just need to buy 4gauge? is it in a pack or sold per meter? do I need to buy 2? dunno how that works, hehe sorry, please explain on that one. :bowrofl:

Thanks again :bowrofl:

Oh yeah, almost forgot...

Ive read alot of posts about distro blocks.... what are they? what do they do? where do they go? what are they worth? wiring, distro's and sound deadening .... I kinda thought these were only optional n not essential... learning new things from you guys with every post.. thanks heaps

']As magnat said, a capacitor in the hand of a noob is a fire waiting to happen.
5 way?......gimmick.....they sound crap.
i just got some JBL 3 ways in and they sound freeken clear as anything
SD is nessassary if you dont want ...."BOOM.....*rattle*...."BOOM.....*rattle*
0ga isnt nessassary, it just has the least resistance? yeah? im sure that ones right, 2ga or 4ga should be fine mate.
a capacitor stores volatge or something and is backup for when u get a voltage drop.

feel free to correct me

The 5-ways are mad, they're the most clear 6x9's I've heard. They actually have 3 active cones in them and 2 passive cones and I found them to be totally faultless running off my amp. Ure right about the 0g wiring too, it's just a really big, fat wire which helps to minimilise current dropping and also reduces the heat build up that can occur. Also correct with the cap. They're just a voltage storing device and they belt in the extra power when you need it. I never had one in my setup and my voltage meter in the fusebox varied from 13.8 - 11.2 hahah oops. Although that was also running 4 amps off of a 4g wire too :S. Lucky I had fuses and breakers everywhere, although I can't claim to have tripped one yet. Go the sound deadening as well... I never had that either and the entire rear-end of my car rattled away to my tunes haha, from a distance the numberplate vibration actually sounded like a WRX :P

I'm gonna say a capacitor will produce no audible benefits. It will definetly not make your system louder and voltage fluctuations are not an issue in modern amps.

For 99% of installs a cap is not necessary.

If you want it for bling then go for it, otherwise they are a waste of money and the money could be better spent in other areas. NOt to mention all the hassles they bring. (fires etc)

kureiton a distro block = distribution block. Is just a small terminal that accepts a certain gauge wire input and this is then split into x no of outputs. Say you are running two amps, it is a waste of time running two sets of positive wires. Instead run one thicker wire into a distro block at the boot. Then have 2 other wires leading to the amps from here.

Sound deadening, I couldnt live without it. Once you've heard a properly deadened system you can see the difference. Basically instead of hearing all the rattles, resonance and vibrations of the tin can that is your doors, you will only hear music.
A little bit of deadener can go a long way. But its the law of diminishing returns as the more you put on the less benefit you get.
The more power you are putting into ur splits the more you'll need deadening.

brands like stinger roadkill, g spot, serenity max, dynamat, sound off etc all do a great job.

Peace

Tim

Oh yeah, almost forgot...

Ive read alot of posts about distro blocks.... what are they? what do they do? where do they go? what are they worth? wiring, distro's and sound deadening .... I kinda thought these were only optional n not essential... learning new things from you guys with every post.. thanks heaps

Here are a couple of pics of ways to do it. One is thru my fuse block, which has an input and 2 outputs. you can see the in on the RHS, having only one screw. The other pic is I think more what the other guys mean. That has an input on the LHS and 4 outputs on the RHS. The grey dots cover up some allen-key heads. Hope this helps mate.

HI mate I am using both Pioneer and Kicker in my ride, Pioneer being TS C160R splits and a AVH-P6650DVD head unit and Kicker being 2 x 12inch kickerCVR subs and a kicker KX650.4 amp. I have had no problems with any of this set up and it pumps it out I have everything turned down to low and it put out 131DB and is nice and clear so as for being which is better I have a combo of both and can't fault either the only thing I am going to do no is going to get another amp just to run my splits. As for your price yeah thats real good as I paid $6000 for my set up but that was for a custom install as well. Black Beard has heard my system and I think he likes it :D :D

Cheers

mercury madness, we'd love to see your custom install in this thread: http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20205

mercury madness, we'd love to see your custom install in this thread: http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20205

Merc's setup isn't in a magna - it's all in a XR6 ute...... but I reckon he should post up pics anyway...... it's a very well done install, suits the space nicely. And it makes me wish I'd spent some money on audio gear in my ride....... :cry:

Yeah for sure but just to let you know it is not a Mitsubishi it is a Ford BA XR6 Ute but if you would like pics of it yeah I will post some for you.

Cheers

Eh, doesn't bother me :)

Feckfista - well if you think there clear, thats fine, i heard a pair and they sounded no different to the pioneer 2 way co ax.

i would try the stuff before you buy it, and not just go one brand for the sake of it.
i havent heard some of my speakers before purchase but that was only becuase they were so highly recommended to me, and i got them for $130, so its a very reasonable price.


i still have to get some Sound deading aswell, does Jaycar stock it?

Jaycar stock some crappy sound-deadening thing. I'd recommend you use SoundOff, or Stinger.

does megatron stock this?

if not anyone know who i can get this from on AMC?

i dont get to go many places so the net is my only way.

PM me if you got any info

/thread hijack

I'm not sure what megatron runs. Stylyn Car Audio in Bentleigh has Sound Off, most car audio places will have Stinger Roadkill, or Dynamat Extreme. JB HiFi has it but you gotta pre-order it, they dont stock it cuz they can't really mark it up.

Your head unit is the same as mine, VERY good for the price you pay. I have pioneer 6" and 6x9" in my car and they go alright! Never heard the kicker stuff though except for one of my old subs was a kicker, went ok, but wasn't very loud (only 250w max i think).