I'm after some advice to try and improve the handeling of a KJ AWD without lowering and trying to keep the ride as comfy as possible. It is the wifes car so if i lower it, the front end will get torn off and if i firm it right up she wont be to happy about that either. She mainly wants less roll around corners as she has come from a sporty Astina to the big whale AWD.

Any ideas? I guess im looking at sway bars? Is it worth looking at stiffer shocks or stiffer springs at same height? Want to try and keep the comfy float but just get rid of the big roll around corners.

Thanks guys.

Without lowering, just put a full set of polyurethane bushes through it. That should make a major difference. Probably $600 or so fitted.

Next on the list would be a rear sway bar, I think the AWD's already have one (18mm???), in which case, I'd go to a 20mm, but if you think the wife will like it, go 22mm. This will basically help turn-in to corners, and hold the car more stable in the corner itself. I thnink these are anywhere from $200-250 for the parts. You can also get adjustable ones.

If you still are not happy, look at a front strut brace to tighten the front end further. Pay no more than $250 for these. Fitting is a bit extra.

After that, you are looking at little things like camber kits, and getting a decent suspension place to do the alignment with some slightly more agressive settings (dial in a bit more camber, toe and caster etc).

Whiteline also make a handling pack of a whole heap of stuff in one that might be for you, it contains poly bushes, strut bar, sway bar, anti-lift kit, and caber kit plus a few extra bits. You can find the info on the whiteline webiste.... www.whiteline.com.au

Past this you are looking at replacing struts, or possibly getting a custom set of springs made up at stock height or with a negligible drop (under 10mm) but with a much higher spring rate to firm things up. This might make the wife protest a bit though.

The final possibility is to splash out on a set of the HotBits coilovers from Philcom Rally. Cost is about $1600 for the street spec and closer to $1900 for the race spec (by memory only). Expect to pay $100/strut or so for fitting. Beauty of these is that you can set your ride height anywhere from the bump-stops to above stock height. This combined with Polyurethane bushes and a 22mm rear swaybar would be awesome on an AWD..... a front strut bar would make it the ultimate handling available.

Wow, gee, thanks for the info. I got evereything i need in one response.

So you think its worth going the polyurethane bushes before the rear sway bar?(yeah it has a standard one in it already).

Would it make that much of a difference to the body roll around corners? It wouldnt have any tradeoffs like noisy bushes or anything like that would it?
It currently has a slight clunk in the rear sway bar when going over uneven roads. Mitsubishi asure me that it is totally normal for the awd. Its the play the sway bar has between the current stock bushes. Gives me the ****s a bit but can live with it.

Would it be worth looking at the rear sway bar before the bushes just as a cost factor or are you confident that i would be happy with just the bushes?

As i said earlier, i want to try and keep the ride as stock/comfy/floaty as possible but just try and give it a little more sporty/confidence feel round corners.

Thanks for your detailed reply MitsiMonsta.

Nige.

isnt the awd already a bit lower than the 2wd?

if you go for harder shocks, she will probably not like it. if you have to, go for harder springs at that height.... that should help a little....

what size are the tyres on it? my fiance has a camry and it used to have 16" alloys with 215/60 tyres, she has since upgraded to 235/45/17 and it handles like a dream now from the lack of roll in the tyre sidewall.

I have an AWD Sports and changing the wheels/tyres from 16" 215/60 to 17" 225/50 (VRX wheels) made a big difference in reducing the rolling feel - also I pretty much cannot get it to break traction anymore...

But also the AWD Sports has stiffer suspension than the standard AWD I think...

I agree with the roll. I have since put lows with adjustable konis and a thicker front sway bar and adjustable rear sway bar. It has a front strut brace aswell but this seems to make less difference to an AWD than FWD(I had a TE). If you want to maintain your ride just do the sway bars first (approx $175 front $225 adjustable rear, ask Anthony from Philcom) These made a big difference and if you want to go further/are allowed then choose from there. This is all with 17/235/45 which reduced tyre flex a great deal.

Wow, gee, thanks for the info. I got evereything i need in one response.
I like to only make one post if possible. Too busy PMing Tuff TR about his ported sub box that we wants to build than be posting a million and one bits of info in this thread. Glad it gave you what you needed.


So you think its worth going the polyurethane bushes before the rear sway bar?(yeah it has a standard one in it already).
Definitely. Since you already have a swaybar, why upgrade it if just a set of poly bushes will do the trick?

To improve handling (as opposed to lowering it or even SLAMMING! it), poly bushes should be the first point of call every time. The rubber bushes have too much flex in them, and can be a bit unpredictable at times. Poly bushes are less compliant (flex less), therefore making the suspension work in the way it was intended. They do transmit more NVH (Noise, vibration, harshness) into the cabin, but handling will improve. The factory uses rubber as it lowers NVH and is cheaper!


Would it make that much of a difference to the body roll around corners? It wouldnt have any tradeoffs like noisy bushes or anything like that would it?
It currently has a slight clunk in the rear sway bar when going over uneven roads. Mitsubishi asure me that it is totally normal for the awd. Its the play the sway bar has between the current stock bushes. Gives me the ****s a bit but can live with it.
Poly pushes may not fix the clunk, but you would hear it less as there is less chance of the bar being able to flex the bush. I'd expect the odd clunk... it's pretty tight in there on the AWD.

Bushes will help turn in (less flex in geometry, less variance), and the car will be a hell of alot more stable as the suspension geometry is kept tighter and with less varience comes... PREDICTABILITY. This tightening may also help the 'floaties' when going over the lumpy sections.... when the car feels like it's a boat. Better to make the suspension soak up the bumps properly through the spring and shock as it was designed to do than just bounce and skittle over it while flexing on the bushes.


Would it be worth looking at the rear sway bar before the bushes just as a cost factor or are you confident that i would be happy with just the bushes?
The fact you have a clunk on the sway bar on rough surfaces leads me to believe that a harder (thicker) swaybar would only deform and flex the rubber bushes more. I'd imagine this would make things (handling and clunking) worse, not better. Do the bushes first, see how you go.


As i said earlier, i want to try and keep the ride as stock/comfy/floaty as possible but just try and give it a little more sporty/confidence feel round corners.
Then the bushes are your best bet. The confidence you want comes from predictability. When you *know* what the car will do, you get confidence that the car will handle a given situation.


Thanks for your detailed reply MitsiMonsta.
As I said earlier, more than a pleasure.

As Feeky and White GTV say, 17"s with a lower profile tyre will also help, due to less flex (there's that damn word again!!!) in the sidewall of the tyre. VRX rims will fit on the AWD even with its bigger diameter brake discs (and probably upgraded calipers), but that would be a reasonable upgrade and tyres would not cost too much either. 235 wide would be better again, but start getting pricier.

If you still aren't happy with it after poly bushes, give me a yell. Let me know how you think it improved, how it got worse, and how much more niose and vibration you got.

As you already have a swaybar, if the bushes dont do the trick it might be better to go for a front strut brace before you upgrade that rear swaybar. There may also be a front swaybar option that could be explored to tighen up the rear. Oh, and pushing hard in a FWD with a 22mm swaybar, you can actually lift up the inside rear wheel... that might be slightly to extreme for your better half ;)

I would get some better tyres, followed by a allignment with some more caster (5 degrees) and 1 degree more toe in front and rear, perhaps upto 3 degrees negative camber on the front and 2 negative on the rear. The tyres will make most the differece, and the geometry change will nip up the turn in.

I run 4 degrees negative camber and 3 on the rear for my car, which definatly sits flatter than the average magna, but tyre wear doesn't bother me because I am sponsored for tyres. Camber helps hold corner G's.

The castor is there to give a very direct feel of the wheel, it will want to straighten up alot more with a few extra degrees. At a guess its probably around 2 degrees stock, with 3 or 4 mm toe in, increase them both (if the magna is adjustable in that section). The charade has 7 degrees front castor, and 2mm toe in on both front and rear. This also pulls your bushes tight again if they are a little clapped out.

You wont need bushes, your car isn't even very old, but have the shop check them out anyway if you get the work done.

Best thing about that is it will make more difference than just slapping a few bars and strut braces on, and a good allignment only costs 80 dollars, and go to your nearest fulcrum.. :cool:

I have a TJII AWD Sports.

Had the same issues as you.

1) The rear sway bar is 16 mm diameter, not 18 mm as on the FWD sports models. This is definitely too small|!! The TL / TW models changed to an 18mm bar as an admission that the original size was too small.


In order this what I Did :-

a) Adjustable rear sway bar - this achieves a HUGE difference. I have currently set at the middle position, the Whiteline kit comes with polyurethane bushes and grease.
Do this first.
The initial turn in is much improved. However the initial sloppiness left is mostly caused by the front tyre sidewalls flexing at the start of the turn in. If you have a KJ then you probably have Turanza's fitted. Try pushing the tyre pressure up by 6 psi all round, this will help a little until you can change the wheels and tyres.

b) Strut brace - only makes a tiny difference to the AWD.

c) Front sway bar - makes a small difference.

d) Front camber pins - set at 3/4 degree negative - toe set at close to zero. Again a small difference - tyre wear is very even with this setting.

e) 17" by 8" rims and Falken Azensis ST115 235/45/17 tyres.
Probably as much difference again as all the above.

Next i am plan to fit the Whiteline castor/ anti lift bushes. Then low springs as I want to keep legal whilst increasing the spring rates, ideally with some slightly stiffer shock absorbers. They will bring thefront level with the rear and anly slightly drop the rear.

As far as the advice about other bushes - forget it - if you are buliding a track machine then removing compliance from the bushes would be a good idea. The first thinsg that you will find that there will be an enormous increase of raod noise through the rear suspension. Again the TL/TW had some changes here.

The all the car needs is another 30+ KW!!!


Gerry.

Thanks for the reply Gerry.

Yeah i didnt want to spend a heap on bushes especially if the car might become more noisy with road noise.
Yeah it has the Turanza's and i run them all at 38psi. When they are due i will replace them with 225 55R16 Turanzas which i have on my KH and they are great and made a HUGE improvment in handeling.

It doesnt have to be any super handeling sports car, i just want to try and get rid of some body roll round corners and try and keep the ride height and ride quality the same.
The wife is no racer but she has commented on how much it rolls round corners compared to her old Astina so i just want to try and reduce that a little.

So you recon go a thicker rear sway bar. How thick you think? 18mm or upto 20mm?

I'm not sure if i need an adjustable one as i will never be adjusting it. Whats your opinion Gerry.

Thanks mate.

Nige.

Nige,
I have the adjustable bar. As a one off mod it would be probably better to buy the adjustable bar and try the settings until you and she who must be obeyed is happy.

If you are in Sydney you are welcome to pm me to have a chat and comparison drive. I am just north of Parramatta.

Gerry

I have a 2003 KJ Verada AWD. The vehicle has been fitted with Pedders heavy duty springs which reduced the body roll dramaticaly. The Pedders were used as they were an option offered by my local Mitsubishi dealer that did not void the vehicle's warranty. The only down side (if it's a down side) is they also lowered it about 25mm.

Have followed this thread with interest as I would like to reduce the body roll a little bit more.

I contacted Whiteline about sway bars for AWDs and the following are THEIR comments:
1. The recommended rear sway bar for AWDs is 18mm, available as both fixed and adjustable.
2. The 22mm rear bars are for FWD vehicles and they do not recommend fitting them to AWDs as they feel they change the front to rear balance of the vehicle too much.
3. They also recommend changing the front bar to 24mm (up from 22mm) at the same time.

The part numbers and RRPs are:
24mm front - BMF 47 - $235
18mm rear (adjustable) - BMR 76Z - $189
18mm rear (fixed) - BMR 76 - didn't price.


Roble

Just replaced the standard swaybar with the whiteline adjustable 18mm sway bar to the rear of the AWD. I set it on the middle setting and it is absolutely perfect. It is exactly the effect i was after. Has gotten rid of a lot of the roll but kept the comfort the same.

Thanks spud100 for the advice.

Is it normal for the sway bar to move side to side a bit within the bushes? I have had a look under neath since i have put it in and i can see by the grease mark ion the bushes that it has moved sideways a bit both ways. Is this normal?