I tried this today and would like members thoughts on it. I removed the black plastic moulding that sits between the radiator and the top of the grill to see if it improved the air flow to the standard Mitsi air intake. The vehicle felt totally different, much more get up and go and more responsive to the right foot. Has anybody else has done this? Can somebody else do it and post their thoughts to prove whether or not I'm suffering from the "Placebo" effect :eh: .

Roble - 2003 KJ Verada AWD

I'm suffering from the "Placebo" effect :eh: .


You said it.

At night it might feel abit more responsive, but i bet during a hot day it'll be a sluggish POS.

Also people tend to forget that when they put a new mod on, they tend to drive faster, ya know flat foot it. some think this as a gain. The best way to test a mod is drive flat footed without it, then drive flat footed with it :D.

I tried this today and would like members thoughts on it. I removed the black plastic moulding that sits between the radiator and the top of the grill to see if it improved the air flow to the standard Mitsi air intake. The vehicle felt totally different, much more get up and go and more responsive to the right foot. Has anybody else has done this? Can somebody else do it and post their thoughts to prove whether or not I'm suffering from the "Placebo" effect :eh: .

Roble - 2003 KJ Verada AWD
No you are exactly right..I have owned two 3rd gens and it's an awesome improvement...you can tell by the extra noise...but your only half done...to increase airflow even more you must cut the front bonnet seal in front of the intake snorkel approximatley 30cm across (from the end of the headlight to just past the middle of the grill) to allow air to get between the bonnet & the top of the grill (leave the second rear bonnet seal alone as it help trap air increasing the pressure around the snorkel)...then make just remove the resonators and your done...

it's an awesome improvement...you can tell by the extra noise...

I rest my case.

I rest my case.
The plastic piece he is talking about is not part of the intake...it is infact a splash guard that as you could see if you owned a TE-TJ (which you dont and is why you dont have a clue) is clearly blocking/restricting air entering the snorkel...by removing it and feeling a power improvement including the extra noise is a sure sign the intake is flowing more air...anyone with even a basic understanding of mechanics etc can see that it is a hinderance to air flow..the downside is by removing it, if you attempt to do something stupid like a river crossing the chances of the intake ingesting water will be increased...
PS: the increased noise & revability etc are with the resonators still in place so have nothing to do with any perceived benefit...

I might try it, if it's easy to do and reversible.
Don't really need more power the way I drive, but what the heck.

Rob

there was a chap in qld - was moulded a new lower half of the std air inlet tract, increasing the volume abt 30% .. . . .

i did ask him if he had the mould - but he said it went . . . .

he also suggested putting some heat sheilding in between the std tract and tha radiator (like the ally shielding on fords). . .


another idea - along your lines - would be to make a simple sccop in the front grill area to force cooler air up to the std tract and cut out the factory plastco bit . ..

hope thats useful

and happpy new year

rgds

simon

I might try it, if it's easy to do and reversible.
Don't really need more power the way I drive, but what the heck.

1 minute, 1 philips head screwdriver, 5 plastic screws and it's out. 1 minute, 1 philips head screwdriver, 5 plastic screws and it's back in!! Because it was so basic and easy, I couldn't credit that someone hadn't tried it before and hence the reason for this thread.

Roble

by removing it and feeling a power improvement including the extra noise is a sure sign the intake is flowing more air...anyone with even a basic understanding of mechanics etc can see that it is a hinderance to air flow.....

Also, anyone with even a basic understanding of mechanics would know that modifications without PROVEN (dyno) benefits are useless!

Did you ever think that these parts are there for a reason? Like to stop the 'swirling' effect that interfers with the reading of AFM/MAF's (proven by the pod filter issue). If the intake is not getting a constant airflow, but rather inconsistent bursts of air because of removed parts - you're not gonna get the increases you were after.....but you would know that because you have a basic understanding of mechanics.

The Mitsi designers and engineers put all those parts in there for a reason (granted some is for noise reduction etc). And i can tell you that they know a ****load more about mechanics that all of us here.

Myself and TZABOY have both run our ralliarts down the 1/4 with dead stock intakes (even the standard filter), pod filters open in the engine bay & TZABOY even ran a full CAI..

guess what the difference was? nothing at all.. each time TZABOY managed a 14.0 at some point throughout the nite and i ran a best time of 14.6 at some point during each nite aswell..

my point? is it really worth mucking around with this stuff when its probably gaining you 1 or 2kws.. or maybe no extra power at all??

in my opinion its just something more for a copper 2 pick on...

hence, the intake on my ralliart is now back 2 how it left the factory.....

I tried this today and would like members thoughts on it. I removed the black plastic moulding that sits between the radiator and the top of the grill to see if it improved the air flow to the standard Mitsi air intake. The vehicle felt totally different, much more get up and go and more responsive to the right foot. Has anybody else has done this? Can somebody else do it and post their thoughts to prove whether or not I'm suffering from the "Placebo" effect :eh: .

Roble - 2003 KJ Verada AWD


so u jus took the factory snorkal off. did u replace it wit nething or is there a huge hole where u can see ur filter. if so ur not doin much good coz all thats happening is that ur jus suckin in hot air from the engine bay.

Ashneel - a picture is worth a thousand words, so have a look at the pics below. The first
is of the splashguard, the second is with the splashguard out and the third is with the splashguard in! As you can see, the intake has not been touched.

TR-Envy - It was 32 degC in Melbourne yesterday and it did not go like a POS!

As for the other negative comments, well they all appear to be by people who have not or cannot try it. Comments by people who have actually tried it would be appreciated.

As for the other negative comments, well they all appear to be by people who have not or cannot try it. Comments by people who have actually tried it would be appreciated.

As for the positive comments - they appear to be by people who have absolutely no proof that this works!

Did you read what gremlin wrote?

"guess what the difference was? nothing at all"

Poor Man's CAI?
I thought anything short of big bore stainless steel piping all the way to the throttle body was poor mans CAI... Im yet to see a good setup.

The plastic shroud was there to guide the air into the radiator and condensor.

Ashneel - a picture is worth a thousand words, so have a look at the pics below. The first
is of the splashguard, the second is with the splashguard out and the third is with the splashguard in! As you can see, the intake has not been touched.

TR-Envy - It was 32 degC in Melbourne yesterday and it did not go like a POS!

As for the other negative comments, well they all appear to be by people who have not or cannot try it. Comments by people who have actually tried it would be appreciated.


ah kool i know wat ya mean now. i thought u took the snorkal of. but as others said (im not being negitve bout ne thing. its pretty good wat u came up wit) it makes no differance. ur car still sucks the same amount of air and it does nothing. i bought a K&N filter and $120 later all i got was louder induction noise. no performance gain that i can feel wat so ever. but good work though, save making a custom CAI lol

why is everyone getting so touchy about this.

I have a tf and have done this exact thing for about 2 months now. It sounds abit more throaty now and seems to have a little more go down low.
the only down side is it probably makes your air filter dirtier quicker and water may get up there if you try and see if your car will float.
it probably wont make a difference on a drag strip or a dyno but it does make it feel abit more drivable down low.

why is everyone getting so touchy about this.

I have a tf and have done this exact thing for about 2 months now. It sounds abit more throaty now and seems to have a little more go down low.
the only down side is it probably makes your air filter dirtier quicker and water may get up there if you try and see if your car will float.
it probably wont make a difference on a drag strip or a dyno but it does make it feel abit more drivable down low.


k 1 think i dun get. how would it get more throaty now when all uv done is taken of a lil bit of plastic???

why is everyone getting so touchy about this.

It sounds abit more throaty now and seems to have a little more go down low.
it probably wont make a difference on a drag strip or a dyno but it does make it feel abit more drivable down low.

Once again - enough said.

The reason i am so 'touchy' about this is because i hate it when people give other people advice which is completely wrong.

This is what I have tried, more performance who knows (no dyno) sound better you bet. Worth it yep cos it was fun making it up (kept me outta the wifes hair!)

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13327

Once again - enough said.

The reason i am so 'touchy' about this is because i hate it when people give other people advice which is completely wrong.

His first post seems quite clear to me.
He tried something, and to him it feels like it made an improvement. Then he asks if anyone else has tried it and is wondering about the placebo effect.
He has no evidence to back it up but he is hardly telling anyone it's a definite improvement.
It's just a simple mod, heck if it doesn't work then oh well it's not like anyone spent $150 for any materials or two hours on labor. I see where you're coming from, but there's no need to be so touchy.

thats sum good work there peter_au18 but u did more then jus take the splash out. wat ppl are sayin here is that they car performs well and all theyv dune is removed i piece of plastic.

it probably wont make a difference on a drag strip or a dyno but it does make it feel abit more drivable down low.

ummm so it "probably" won't make a difference on a drag strip (in other words the car wont go any faster) or a dyno (so its making no extra power) ... it makes it feel better (in other words it makes it feel like it goes faster and has more power but it really doesnt)?

i think im getting confused as to what engine mods are all about.. sorry, i leave this one to the experts :confused:

ROFL @ the thought that removal of a small piece of plastic makes fk all difference....... :bowrofl:

I tried this today and would like members thoughts on it. I removed the black plastic moulding that sits between the radiator and the top of the grill to see if it improved the air flow to the standard Mitsi air intake. The vehicle felt totally different, much more get up and go and more responsive to the right foot. Has anybody else has done this? Can somebody else do it and post their thoughts to prove whether or not I'm suffering from the "Placebo" effect :eh: .

Roble - 2003 KJ Verada AWD





lets see know this thread is bcoming a war zone bcoz some gave a neg. comment and the other party is defending. guys if u dont like the idea let it go, "to each is own".this mod has been covered a lot of times in different method.if u dont do a research around it'll be a trial and error case and learn from it. theres nothing wrong with being creative.if u do comment pls in a nicer way not a smart mouth way, so it wont lead to an argument. just remember that this mod came in different versions and most members in here has 'em. :cool: this mod may or may not gain anything as long as it doesnt cost u well its a good try. :doubt:

As has been said before, the plastic is probably more for radiator shrouding (to channel air through the radiator) than a splash shield. If the water was anywhere near the plastic, it would certainly be drawn into the engine, with the consequent hydraulic affects.

There is a company which makes intakes for Commodores that also makes air intake scoops that fit in the area between the radiator and the top of the grill (I think that it is SS Inductions).

I wouldn't recommend leaving the plastic out altogether. Maybe a cutout in it and a scoop would be a good compromise.

I also wouldn't say that everything that engineers do is well considered. Economics and the middle ground play a large part. If everything they did was right the first time, we'd all be driving Model T Ford (or equivalent).

Ken

Couple of points. On my last car - a TH Sports, I removed the splashguard and cut the front rubber strip on the underside of the bonnet to expose the front of the snorkel. Seat of the pants effect: zero. All it did was let more dust and sh*t into the engine bay. Ended up replacing it all back to stock.

On my current car, I agree with Gremlin. I've dyno'd the car at the same session with the stock air filter on and then with the snorkel removed and no air filter fitted. The outcome was zero difference in terms of dyno power readings.

In other words the standard filter and snorkel etc appears not to be restrictive.

In other words the standard filter and snorkel etc appears not to be restrictive.


:shock: who would have thought! Maybe the years of development in designing paper elements and intakes IS actualy better than home made dodgy PVC CAI setups :doubt:

:shock: who would have thought! Maybe the years of development in designing paper elements and intakes IS actualy better than home made dodgy PVC CAI setups :doubt:
lol very well said

well, i couldnt care what anyone says, im happy with my 15.15 1/4 mile (in hotter conditions as well) with my poor mans PVC CAI, than my previous best of 15.39 without. Same 60 foot times too, before anyone asks...

To me it definetely felt like my setup gave better low down torque, and i've changed from stock to CAI twice with the same feeling. For some reason though, i do think later model 3rd gens (3.5L's especially) dont seem to get the same gains, perhaps their ECU is better tuned for the stock setup? who knows...

Its still something you can do, mainly to help yourself learn about your car and make it modified, but to go so far as to pay for a sketchy setup does seem a bit out of place.

Someone in NQ should donate their time and car to me and ill make a full stainless steel intake system, from the pod to the AFR to the TB, which WOULD make a measurable difference and sound incredible.

I tried this today and would like members thoughts on it. I removed the black plastic moulding that sits between the radiator and the top of the grill to see if it improved the air flow to the standard Mitsi air intake. The vehicle felt totally different, much more get up and go and more responsive to the right foot. Has anybody else has done this? Can somebody else do it and post their thoughts to prove whether or not I'm suffering from the "Placebo" effect :eh: .

Roble - 2003 KJ Verada AWD


Hi Robie
You are probably experiencing a true improvement in performance.

What most members reading your post may have not known is that you are running a K&N hi-flow air filter, hi-flow Lukey muffler & the Fuel rail lean-out kit.

This kit enhances the fuel combustion properties in such a way that it acts like the fuel has been enriched, but not actually increasing the quantity of fuel through the injector.
The computer is not aware of this and allows the car to increase acceleration.

It has very good throttle response around 1500rpm - 3000rpm and when developing this kit I found it responded very well to both ignition timing advance and to increases in air intake (which goes to your original question)

There are about 15 Fuel rail kits out there now and most owners have remarked on this feature

Cheers, Buddy
Barry

Its still something you can do, mainly to help yourself learn about your car and make it modified, but to go so far as to pay for a sketchy setup does seem a bit out of place.

Someone in NQ should donate their time and car to me and ill make a full stainless steel intake system, from the pod to the AFR to the TB, which WOULD make a measurable difference and sound incredible.

Id be up for one, sadly nowhere near NQ.

Hi Robie
You are probably experiencing a true improvement in performance.

What most members reading your post may have not known is that you are running a K&N hi-flow air filter, hi-flow Lukey muffler & the Fuel rail lean-out kit.

This kit enhances the fuel combustion properties in such a way that it acts like the fuel has been enriched, but not actually increasing the quantity of fuel through the injector.
The computer is not aware of this and allows the car to increase acceleration.

It has very good throttle response around 1500rpm - 3000rpm and when developing this kit I found it responded very well to both ignition timing advance and to increases in air intake (which goes to your original question)

There are about 15 Fuel rail kits out there now and most owners have remarked on this feature

Cheers, Buddy
Barry

Barry, his not reffering to any of the 3 products you mentioned giving him an increase. I'm sure some or all of those products would.

His saying he removed a piece of plastic from above the grill and says the car now has more go. What his talking about has absolutly nothing to do with your fuel rail kit, a k&n filter or a lukey rear muffler........

This kit enhances the fuel combustion properties in such a way that it acts like the fuel has been enriched, but not actually increasing the quantity of fuel through the injector.
The computer is not aware of this and allows the car to increase acceleration.

It has very good throttle response around 1500rpm - 3000rpm and when developing this kit I found it responded very well to both ignition timing advance and to increases in air intake (which goes to your original question)

There are about 15 Fuel rail kits out there now and most owners have remarked on this feature

Cheers, Buddy
Barry


Have you got any dyno proven results with your setup? (not having a go - genuinely interested)

All of the mods were in place before I removed the "splashguard/bit of plastic/whatever you want to call it". Most of my driving is in the 1000 to 4500rpm range and there is definately better get up and go (in that range) since removing it. My thoughts are that the engine is not expending as much energy sucking air in with the restriction removed hence a bit more power or torque. Remember, that unless you have forced induction, the air isn't going to push its own way in!

Roble

Have you got any dyno proven results with your setup? (not having a go - genuinely interested)

A fair question - not a problem.

I doubt if throttle response would show up on a convential dyno test.
After about 2-3 seconds of boost the computer takes over and the vehicle is by then in the 3000+ rpm range.

Of greater value is a report by a respected researcher who actually fitted a kit to his own Magna and found that the EGO display showed this increase of fuel-air ratio in real time.
If you would like to see his findings, I will ask for his permission as it was forwarded to me confidentially in a PM.

A better example of the effectiveness of the kit are the many reports of reduced or total removal of exhaust system "droning" which can only be the result of improved combustion. There is also, of course the elimination of the "flat spot" with hi-flow intakes, well covered in these forums.

Added to this, I have just finished a final test of the Body earthing/grounding Kit on a run to Canberra. With the Fuel rail Kit and the Body kit together ( and with 3 issues in the electrical system addressed ) there is a large increase in torque which now pulls strongly from 2100rpm (3.5L) with a much-improved exhaust performance similar to the gains from fitting extractors. This is using only a stock air filter with additional air to the air box, Lukey muffler and modified EGR.

Cheers, Barry

Thanks Barry.

So the answer to my question was no.

Most of my driving is in the 1000 to 4500rpm range and there is definately better get up and go (in that range) since removing it.

Roble

You've missed the point of what myself and other are saying.

There is no improvement except in your imagination!

Only benefit I really noticed was that my car still had go past about 5200 rpm when I removed my snorkle.

You've missed the point of what myself and other are saying.
There is no improvement except in your imagination!

WADR I think that you have missed the point he is making

Quote by Robie
I removed the black plastic moulding that sits between the radiator and the top of the grill to see if it improved the air flow to the standard Mitsi air intake. The vehicle felt totally different, much more get up and go and more responsive to the right foot.

Note he says "more responsive"
"The vehicle felt totally different, much more get up and go and more responsive to the right foot"

This is different to doing Quarter times or graphing power load points on a dyno
He is also not making a WOT comparison, but a rev range found in real day-to-day driving

The reason for the improvement may be that removal of the plastic has allowed increased ram air pressure to act on the entry to the intake snorkel.

It is commonly known that this can make up the difference where you have pressure drops in an inefficient air intake system

You may also care to research sites like Hondata/wideband tuning, where it points out that full throttle tuning only tunes 1/5 to 1/6 of the available map area

Cheers, Barry

Just adding my 2 cents into this debate, that piece you are talking about could very well make an improvement, anything that reduces inlet restriction helps but is it worth the reduction in cooling performance of your radiator. It is not something I would do during the hot summers for sure, maybe in the winter would be ok.

That piece you taking off is what people add to their Skyline GTRs to improve the cooling performance of their radiators when they're chasing big HP, and people charge around$150 for a stainless steel version of it.

Perhaps a better mod might be to utilise the opening in the front bar on the passengers side(for those that don't have spotlights) and duct air upto the filter from there.

interesting read...

hey turbo charade there is a system on the market like the one you are talking about,

i have it on my car, it has these soft "thermo" plastic elbows and stainless pipe for the straight bits, it goes from the air filter (which is down very low at the front left of my car ), to the TB. It is rpws new kit i think, around 3-400 $ i think, dont know about installation costs (1 hour of your time) .

But it has made my induction sound great, and the difference of an airfilter getting the dense air on a cold freeway are noticeable. Better than your engine bay temps IMO,

have fun mucking around with your cars anyway, it is what being a car nut is all about lol


later :cool:

[QUOTE=Ken N]As has been said before, the plastic is probably more for radiator shrouding (to channel air through the radiator) than a splash shield. If the water was anywhere near the plastic, it would certainly be drawn into the engine, with the consequent hydraulic affects.

Having worked in the auto parts industry for the last ten years or so, this piece of plastic is nothing more than a "sight shield". a piece of plastic for aesthetics to cover the surrounding bonnet lock area. I just screwed it down to the vertical lock support to shove a bit more air in. not sure of any difference. A lot of third gens actually had a squarish box attached under the front part of the snorkel to catch water, as some of the later ones did not come out with the very front bonnet weatherstrip.

Hi Magtone

A lot of third gens actually had a squarish box attached under the front part of the snorkel to catch water

It's actually a third resonator that appears in TF's
Later TJ2 also had the second lower resonator deleted, leaving only the one at the top of the intake

Cheers, Barry

Hi Magtone

A lot of third gens actually had a squarish box attached under the front part of the snorkel to catch water

It's actually a third resonator that appears in TF's
Later TJ2 also had the second lower resonator deleted, leaving only the one at the top of the intake
Cheers, Barry

oh o.k...ta. well i ripped it off and that is where i connected my CAI pipe. handy :D

With the resonators; I was wondering how much effect removing them from the system would have on the MAF sensor?
I was just thinking that the resonators would absorb a lot of the pressure wave from closing the TB from wide open (ie changing up a gear) thus saving the sensor from recieving a v.large and sudden pressure spike and sudden drop of air flow. Just wondering if anyone else had thought of this