03 TJ11 FWD, handles well in the dry but understeers like a mofo in the wet. Is this common and if so can it be fixed or corected?

FWD cars have a tendancy to understeer. Adding a rear sway bar (or a thicker rear sway bar if you have a Sports/VR-X) can help. As can a decent four wheel alignment and sticky tyres.

Not going fast around corners in the wet is also good at reducing understeer :P

Must be Monsoon season up there eh Sevo??

Yeah, as Cthulhu said - get yourself some whiteline handling mods, in particular - a rear sway bar (adjustable preferably). Other than that - just modify the way you drive abit, especially if you are used to driving a RWD.

Personally I find not accelerating heavily thru the apex of the corner is a good technique in a FWD - but I'm not claiming to be an expert.

Have you still got the original tyres? I found a huge improvement when I changed from the Bridgestones to some good Yokohamas. Also yeah, the swaybars make a big difference.
The cheap way to tend more toward oversteer is that lever to the right of your gearstick. :D Give it a tug in the wet and your back end will be infront of you before you can blink.
Disclaimer: Not recommended in traffic.

if its adjustable set some awsome toe on the rear, a sway bar and some decent tyres and u should have no probs

Yeah every thing is stock at the moment, aiming for mags, sticky tyres and sway bar by march.

03 TJ11 FWD, handles well in the dry but understeers like a mofo in the wet.

That doesn't make sense.

How can a road being wet or dry have an effect on whether a car understeers or not?

03 TJ11 FWD, handles well in the dry but understeers like a mofo in the wet. Is this common and if so can it be fixed or corected?


They call that Aqua planning.. how about slow down in the wet and you will be right..

The other thing is get yourself some new rubber.. :D

EGO is correct.

Sevo - you are talking about tyre grip and not understeer.

yer us magnas and veradas 3.5ltrs just have too much torque in da front wheels thats all it is

yer us magnas and veradas 3.5ltrs just have too much torque in da front wheels thats all it is


Yeah, I might take mine in and have a heap of the torque tuned out of it. Maybe drop it down to about 200Nm. That should fix the problem! :bowrofl:

yer and while ur at it u should stick some potatoes in ya exhuast system. :bowrofl:

Might take off the AMC sticker too. That should cut off some power. lol

That doesn't make sense.

How can a road being wet or dry have an effect on whether a car understeers or not?
umm.. well a wet road is going to have less grip than a dry road?!:nuts: therefore it WILL understeer more...

go try it mate.. accelerate thru a tight corner at 50 in the dry then take the same corner in the wet the same way.. i guarantee you will understeer :nuts:

No. It will aquaplane or slide earlier but the amount of understeer will be the same.

:nuts:

I guarantee you wont turn at all, and you'll end up sliding straight off the road, depending on the corner and how hard you steer/accelerate blah blah blah. Ah well you know what i mean..

EDIT: you beat me...

ZAKLY!

People should do a bit more research before they post :D

its even more fun with lsd!! atleast with my TJ Sports usually it was only the inside wheel that went crazy under power during cornering in the wet.. now with lsd, if i give it enough gas, both wheels spin up way to easily and the car goes dead straight... scary but fun at the same time lol

i'm not sure everyone here understands what understeer is. understeer is when your car takes a corner wide due to slipping front wheels. this is common in FWD cars due to the torque overloading the grip of the tires which are busy steering around the corner. as grip is the main component of understeer wet, slippery conditions do cause more severe understeer.

i'm not sure everyone here understands what understeer is. understeer is when your car takes a corner wide due to slipping front wheels. this is common in FWD cars due to the torque overloading the grip of the tires which are busy steering around the corner. as grip is the main component of understeer wet, slippery conditions do cause more severe understeer.

Perhaps, i was simply explaining what would happen in the given scenario :)

Understeer is a handling trait, based upon the suspension and powertrain setup of the car. When you run wide due to wet road, that's simply lack of traction. It's like when people get the two main attributes of a car confused - Handling, and Traction. I.e. WRXs have good traction but poor handling, whereas S2000s have good handling but poor traction.

^^ worded very well.

Understeer is a handling trait, based upon the suspension and powertrain setup of the car. When you run wide due to wet road, that's simply lack of traction. It's like when people get the two main attributes of a car confused - Handling, and Traction. I.e. WRXs have good traction but poor handling, whereas S2000s have good handling but poor traction.

^^^i agree with all that, but understeer is front wheels slipping around a corner (more-so then the rear, which is why the setup of the car is important). grip is the final factor in how much understeer occurs, so when you have much less in the rain you understeer more.

Anyone of the following people should be able to help you with you problem. :D


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Just give them a call and your problem should be fixed in no time :bowrofl:

^^^i agree with all that, but understeer is front wheels slipping around a corner (more-so then the rear, which is why the setup of the car is important). grip is the final factor in how much understeer occurs, so when you have much less in the rain you understeer more.

Going by the original complaint though "03 TJ11 FWD, handles well in the dry but understeers like a mofo in the wet. Is this common and if so can it be fixed or corected?" His opinion is that it does not understeer in the dry, but does so in the wet. Hence his perception is that in the wet, there is less traction which is true, but ultimately the car will understeer in both wet *and* dry. It's just less likely in the dry as the traction is higher.

im sorry to hear about your understear problem, truly i am, (miles of sarcasim) im sorry but im totally at a lose to understand that you didnt realise that fwd cars understear, im shocked, i thought that was as obvious as a fridge being cold, and beer making you drunk.

id suggest the driving schools and dont go out in teh wet :shock:

If all that fails just learn how to drive.. :D

If all that fails just learn how to drive.. :D

yep, you can improve the handling, but you have to adjust your driving style. other then the weight bias to the front and the suspension configuration, cars behave the same around corners if you dont apply any throttle.

im sorry to hear about your understear problem, truly i am, (miles of sarcasim) im sorry but im totally at a lose to understand that you didnt realise that fwd cars understear, im shocked, i thought that was as obvious as a fridge being cold, and beer making you drunk.

id suggest the driving schools and dont go out in teh wet :shock:

:bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: hahaha

i'm not sure everyone here understands what understeer is. understeer is when your car takes a corner wide due to slipping front wheels. this is common in FWD cars due to the torque overloading the grip of the tires which are busy steering around the corner. as grip is the main component of understeer wet, slippery conditions do cause more severe understeer.
As Helloyo states, I really dont think you guys actually understand what understeer or even oversteer actually means.
Its a very simple concept really, understeer is basically where the front wheels fail to maintain the chosen line around a corner and drift outwards from that chosen line. This can be due to any number of factors such as road surface (wet or dry), car setup (FWD or RWD), tyres, suspension or whatever. It really makes no difference HOW it happens, if the front wheels diverge outwards from a chosen line through a corner, by definition, its understeer.
Conversely, Oversteer is exactly the same, but where the wheels diverge inwards from the chosen line around a corner, most common example is the rear tyres losing grip but other factors can effect it.
Back to the original post, any car is going to understeer more in the wet than dry, as the surface is different. Wet surfaces increase a vehicles tendency to understeer, simple physics on that one and I would think common sense should tell anyone that, if not, boy are you in trouble!!!! :nuts: lol

Oversteer is when the back of the car hits the tree

whereas

Understeer is where the front of the car hits the tree

:D:D:D

Oversteer is when the back of the car hits the tree

whereas

Understeer is where the front of the car hits the tree

:D:D:D

i'll hit you with a tree you twit

Understeering sucks, there's nothing fun about going around the GOR too quick and having the car not turning on the opposite side of the road with an oncoming car ahead.

:|

Understeering sucks, there's nothing fun about going around the GOR too quick and having the car not turning on the opposite side of the road with an oncoming car ahead.

:|

yeah, it sucks, but most cars are tuned for understeer for safety reasons. if your not holding your line letting go of the accelerator should pull you back in which is the automatic thing to do.

yeah, it sucks, but most cars are tuned for understeer for safety reasons. if your not holding your line letting go of the accelerator should pull you back in which is the automatic thing to do.

Yeah, that's what I ended up doing. Ended up on the wrong side, foot off the accelerator, straightened her up, accelerated back on to my side of the road.

OMG it sounds like there are some terrible drivers out there! please anyone who has ever had an accident, or close call with an over/understeer problem, go to the YellowPages (http://www.yellowpages.com.au) website and search for defensive driving in your area and learn how to control a car properly. it is the best invest you could ever make.

please

OMG it sounds like there are some terrible drivers out there! please anyone who has ever had an accident, or close call with an over/understeer problem, go to the YellowPages (http://www.yellowpages.com.au) website and search for defensive driving in your area and learn how to control a car properly. it is the best invest you could ever make.

please
arnt people allowed to make mistakes these days :nuts:
surely even you have powered arounded a corner before and understeered too much and relised never to do it again...

i'll hit you with a tree you twit
from the back or the front :bowrofl:

As Helloyo states, I really dont think you guys actually understand what understeer or even oversteer actually means.
Its a very simple concept really, understeer is basically where the front wheels fail to maintain the chosen line around a corner and drift outwards from that chosen line. This can be due to any number of factors such as road surface (wet or dry), car setup (FWD or RWD), tyres, suspension or whatever. It really makes no difference HOW it happens, if the front wheels diverge outwards from a chosen line through a corner, by definition, its understeer.
Conversely, Oversteer is exactly the same, but where the wheels diverge inwards from the chosen line around a corner, most common example is the rear tyres losing grip but other factors can effect it.
Back to the original post, any car is going to understeer more in the wet than dry, as the surface is different. Wet surfaces increase a vehicles tendency to understeer, simple physics on that one and I would think common sense should tell anyone that, if not, boy are you in trouble!!!! :nuts: lol


perfect on the dot

OMG it sounds like there are some terrible drivers out there! please anyone who has ever had an accident, or close call with an over/understeer problem, go to the YellowPages (http://www.yellowpages.com.au) website and search for defensive driving in your area and learn how to control a car properly. it is the best invest you could ever make.

please

What the ****? People oversteer all the time, and not always the drivers fault. Jesus.

What the ****? People oversteer all the time, and not always the drivers fault. Jesus.

he's not saying it is..... he's just saying that a driving course will help you to control it when it happens.

he's not saying it is..... he's just saying that a driving course will help you to control it when it happens.

Yeah I know what he means I just don't think it's fair to say that everyone who's had a close-call with an oversteer/understeer reason should have to go do one. Then again with all these new P-Plate laws that could be coming into Victoria soon (same as NSW's Green/Red Ps) then they might as well force everyone to do a defensive driving course to go from their Green Ps to Red Ps.

Well i took the car in to my local tyre place on saturday, and the bloke said that for some unknown reason the rubber on my tyres had gone hard! He had no idea what caused it to do so, but the tread was actualy cracking! Anyhow, four new tyres later and she sticks like theres no tomorrow, 100% up on before in the wet.

Well i took the car in to my local tyre place on saturday, and the bloke said that for some unknown reason the rubber on my tyres had gone hard! He had no idea what caused it to do so, but the tread was actualy cracking! Anyhow, four new tyres later and she sticks like theres no tomorrow, 100% up on before in the wet.

Tyres will harden after a while if the car is exposed to allot of sun and rain. With some cars the drivers drive so sedately that this occures before the tread wears out.

Yeah I know what he means I just don't think it's fair to say that everyone who's had a close-call with an oversteer/understeer reason should have to go do one. Then again with all these new P-Plate laws that could be coming into Victoria soon (same as NSW's Green/Red Ps) then they might as well force everyone to do a defensive driving course to go from their Green Ps to Red Ps.

All im saying is that if you do one of these coarses, it will never get out of control again. take my word for it, you would be surprised how much you dont know......

(besides that, its fun to fang someone elses car round a wet track spinning all over the joint :D)

^^ Much better to use your own car on the course, as then you can test the limits of your car in a safe environment.

All im saying is that if you do one of these coarses, it will never get out of control again. take my word for it, you would be surprised how much you dont know......

(besides that, its fun to fang someone elses car round a wet track spinning all over the joint :D)Surely a major point of these courses is to teach you how to correct what may become an out of control situation as much as it to avoid these situations entirely. You don't need a course to teach you how to avoid under/oversteer completely, you just drive slowly.

Besides, I'd strongly argue that understeer (and even oversteer to a point) isn't an out of control condition, because you do have some degree of control left, whether that be applying more or less throttle, opposite lock, etc.

A flat spin... now that's an out of control situation.

EGO is correct.

Sevo - you are talking about tyre grip and not understeer.



for some unknown reason the rubber on my tyres had gone hard! He had no idea what caused it to do so, but the tread was actualy cracking! Anyhow, four new tyres later and she sticks like theres no tomorrow, 100% up on before in the wet.

Should have listened to me in the first place :D

Nuff said.

*snicker* I turned a fair bit of understeer into a fair bit of oversteer last night :D

Just thought I'd test my recovery skills on a wet roundabout. I passed (thankfully).

The original post is correct.

The TJII AWD DOES understeer more easily than it should.

The issue is that there is a turn in understeer caused by the small 16 mm diameter rear sway bar, NB the FWD sports models have 18 mm rear bars, and the tyre sidewalls flexing.

1) Good move getting the tyres changed to new ones.

2) Change the rear bar to a 20 mm or an adjustable bar. This reduces the weight transfer to the outside tyre when turning. Therefore understeer reduced as well as improved tyre life.

3) Fit a pair of camber bolts and adjust for negative camber between 0.75 and 1°

4) Change to 17" wheels and tyres, good ones of course.

After all this the car will be more responsive, grip levels will be higher.
But of course if you are a hoon in the wet then you can expect it to slide!!!


Gerry

The original post is correct.

The TJII AWD DOES understeer more easily than it should.Shame he's got a FWD...