Gotta keep this short as I'm on my way out...........

As some of you will know - about 3 months ago I reached the culmination of some performance mods to my 2002 TJII 4spd auto Exec. The final mod was an emanage fitted and tuned at 101 Motorcafe here in Brisbane - the tune netted about 121kW at the wheels...... you will no doubt remember that I was less than impressed with this.

Some of you will also remember that just before Christmas I picked up a 2003 built TJII 5spd manual Exec - in a last ditch effort to get satisfaction from modding magnas. Over the last few weeks I have been transferring all the performance mods from the auto to the manual - and today I picked the car up once again from 101 Motorcafe after they transferred the emanage across and tuned the new car.

Here are the results: (note the 38 deg intake temp :shock: )

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/356/dyno8zz.jpg


All mods should be listed in my profile if you're wondering. The only difference between the two is that I fitted Barry's Fuel Rail Kit while installing the mods on the new car, and I didn't fit up the piping from RPW's CAI kit (the POD is mounted behind the front of the factory air box - sucking in lots of hot air).

Barry - if you're reading this, I have to appologise, because of lack of time - I fitted the fuel rail kit at the same time as the RPW plennum chamber and therefore can't give an independent impression of the kit itself. Rob at 101 however confirmed what you say about the effects of heated fuel so I am confident your kit is the best value for money option for anyone experiencing flat spot from a K&N filter (apart from not buying a K&N filter in the first place :D )

thats sweet mike; dont know if another picture is loaded (dial up) but did you make good gains from greddy?? also how does it go??

Well done, that is a very nice figure. I'd be interested to see what it would do in the middle of winter instead of the current hot and humid conditions.

The Manuals always perform better on the dyno dur to less transmission loss. That could be worth 5-7WkW's on the dyno.

The lack of direct drive due to the torque converter was always going to hurt you.

That said, it goes to show what can be done. A light port & polish, a new set of cams, a cool day and 98 octane and I reckon 150+ easily!

Bring it on.... is this the most powerful NA 3rd gen now? Or is that Meh?

EDIT: I take it that the black line is everything fitted but not tuned, and the green line is after tuning yes?

Well done, that is a very nice figure. I'd be interested to see what it would do in the middle of winter instead of the current hot and humid conditions.

The Manuals always perform better on the dyno dur to less transmission loss. That could be worth 5-7WkW's on the dyno.

The lack of direct drive due to the torque converter was always going to hurt you.

That said, it goes to show what can be done. A light port & polish, a new set of cams, a cool day and 98 octane and I reckon 150+ easily!

Bring it on.... is this the most powerful NA 3rd gen now? Or is that Meh?

EDIT: I take it that the black line is everything fitted but not tuned, and the green line is after tuning yes?

A new set of cams could depending on other mods net him in excess of 200kw, thats where the power lies, but as far as most powerful NA, I believe it's Jason, followed by cthulu, then tzaboy I think.
Afaik the black line would be torque.
Matthius

Just out of curiosity, do you know what the car was making stock?

thats sweet mike; dont know if another picture is loaded (dial up) but did you make good gains from greddy?? also how does it go??

Just one dyno sheet uploaded - shows the before and after emanage tune. Had full exhaust, plennum chamber, pod filter, FPR etc. fitted before hand (thats the black lines) - which incidently is making heaps more power than the auto was with all those mods and the tune. Green lines are obviously the power and torque after being tuned with the emanage.

Not only are the peak outputs considerably higher than the auto - but I gained more with the tune as well.

MitsiMonster - Thanks for the comments, I'm definetly happy with the power I'm getting on the new car. As for being the most powerful N/A magna on the forums, I think Matthius is pretty much spot on with his info ....... unfortunately there is no way I can compete with the modded ralliarts (standard ralliarts might be a different matter :badgrin: ), and a couple of guys out there with cams and head work (JasonsVRX and Cthulhu). What I can say however (and some of the Qld boys can back me up) is that with these mods, and the standard cams - I have good useable power pretty much from 2,500rpm onwards.


Just out of curiosity, do you know what the car was making stock?

This car - unfortunately not...... I picked it up the week before christmas, therefore had bugger all chance of getting it dyno'd before I started modding it....... what I will say however is it felt quicker than my auto which was dyno'd at 121 or thereabouts kW atw.

good to hear that u got wat u hav been waitin for for all ur mods.......so are u goin down the tracks now :badgrin: :badgrin:

Bring it on.... is this the most powerful NA 3rd gen now? Or is that Meh?

EDIT: I take it that the black line is everything fitted but not tuned, and the green line is after tuning yes?


nope hot even close, jason is into the 170's and is hoping for 220 with rebuild

cngrats on the numbers:D! does it feel faster though ? that is the main thing i ges ? well done bud

Congrats mate! amazing the difference that a manual can do :badgrin:

Thats a much better power figure, up where it should be.

(on another topic; hows your nuts goin? :bowrofl: )

......so are u goin down the tracks now :badgrin:

Thanks Edwin - probably wont be going back to Willowbank for a while...... I'll wait til it cools down, give myself the best possible chance at getting into the 14's (plus give myself plenty of time to learn how to get it off the line without bucketloads of wheelspin)


cngrats on the numbers! does it feel faster though ? that is the main thing i ges ? well done bud

Yeah - feels like a completely different car (well technically it is), what I mean is the 6g74 is like a different engine when its mated with the 5spd manual gearbox.


Congrats mate! amazing the difference that a manual can do :badgrin:

Thats a much better power figure, up where it should be.

(on another topic; hows your nuts goin? :bowrofl: )

Ummmmmmmmm....... :confused: If you're referring to the fact that I'm trying to convince the missus to forgo buying a house this year so I can bolt a turbo to it......... well, that could go either way at this stage.

If you're not referring to that......... well then, ummmmm, ones abit bigger than the other - but it doesn't cause any problems :shock: .

Ummmmmmmmm....... :confused: If you're referring to the fact that I'm trying to convince the missus to forgo buying a house this year so I can bolt a turbo to it......... well, that could go either way at this stage.

If you're not referring to that......... well then, ummmmm, ones abit bigger than the other - but it doesn't cause any problems :shock: .


Was actually refering to the wheel nut that was rooted.... :bowrofl:

So approx. whats your car running at the flywheel?

Was actually refering to the wheel nut that was rooted.... :bowrofl:

Oh....... :redface: that nut...... well it's still rooted. Should be getting the stud drilled out some time this week.



So approx. whats your car running at the flywheel?

Impossible to say exactly (well not impossible - just costly). Assuming 25% drivetrain loss - then I might be making 188kW at the flywheel (141 / 0.75)

Hi Black Beard


The only difference between the two is that I fitted Barry's Fuel Rail Kit while installing the mods on the new car, and I didn't fit up the piping from RPW's CAI kit (the POD is mounted behind the front of the factory air box - sucking in lots of hot air).

Yes, thank you for installing the kit.
It seems to have performed well in spite of some really adverse conditions.
I will be continuing R&D on some new kits designed to compliment the Fuel Rail Kit

I look forward to any further impressions on your current ride

Cheers, Barry

Nice one! Glad those mods are finally working out for you :cool:

farout i want a manual, that new power gain should provide some interesting off the liners, if you do them,

Gotta luv the manuels - only someone who has driven an auto and transferred to a manuel can fully understand how large the difference is.

Now you have a platform that can really work for you - I woudl seriously suggest isntead of focusing on horsepower at this moment- focus on traction, suspension cause beleive me 50% of going down that quarter mile faster is traction and in fact the more horsepower you create with traction issues, the slower you will go.

having gone from an auto 3L to a manual 3.5 the diff is huge, im loving it right now but im sure ill get used to it quickly and want more!

out of interest what mods are on ur car? for the amount of money u've spent so far would a turbo/supercharged setup be better? after being at motorvation i now wanna make my car go faster (was never really interested til i got the 3.5 manual) trying to see whether working the engine N/A or bolting on turbo/supercharger would be the better go

and yes i realise getting that power to the ground is a big issue, that issue definately needs to be addressed (the whole suspension setup needs to be addressed in a magna!)

either way mate, thats a nice power gain, good choice on the manual too :cool:

Did you ever discover the problem with the auto car??

An auto will not sap 20kw at the wheels....so no doubt the problem was lying elsewhere in the setup, or something was just plain ol rooted :)

*EDIT* just read you didn't install the RPW CAI piping. Going by SEIRYUs result with that configuration (ie a substantial loss of power), this may well be what was causing such low power figures.

Did you ever discover the problem with the auto car??

An auto will not sap 20kw at the wheels....so no doubt the problem was lying elsewhere in the setup, or something was just plain ol rooted :)

*EDIT* just read you didn't install the RPW CAI piping. Going by SEIRYUs result with that configuration (ie a substantial loss of power), this may well be what was causing such low power figures.

With regards to the auto car........ well it really is abit of a mystery as far as I'm concerned. The strangest thing is - since I've removed all the mods from it, it really doesn't feel that much slower....... which I assumed it would if something along the way had made it loose power. It's really not like any of the mods where faulty - because they are all on the new car (with the exception of the CAI piping).

I asked the guy that had tuned them both what his thoughts on it were, and while he agreed that the auto box wouldn't suck that much power out of it - all he said was "there's Monday, Wednesday, and Friday cars" (for those that don't understand - it's reference to the day of the week a car was built, and the supposed link to quality of workmanship on various days of the week).

As far as I'm concerned - it really just goes to show how less responsive the Auto version of the car is to modifications of that kind :confused: .

A new set of cams could depending on other mods net him in excess of 200kw, thats where the power lies, but as far as most powerful NA, I believe it's Jason, followed by cthulu, then tzaboy I think.
Afaik the black line would be torque.
Matthius
the last dyno run i did was 158kw, so i'm just hanging on in this game :doubt:

A new set of cams could depending on other mods net him in excess of 200kw, thats where the power lies, but as far as most powerful NA, I believe it's Jason, followed by cthulu, then tzaboy I think.
Afaik the black line would be torque.
Matthius

forgetting about me? lol my car put out 165kw atw with massive torque figures.

Working on a little more power soon :badgrin:

']forgetting about me?
who are you? lol

']trying to see whether working the engine N/A or bolting on turbo/supercharger would be the better goif you really want power, as in you don't just want to mess about with extractors and a chip, but want 200kW at the wheels, then forced induction will give you the best bang for buck, no doubt about it.

(disclaimer: unless you are Jasons VRX or EzBoy and can make your own manifolds and crap)

']forgetting about me? lol my car put out 165kw atw with massive torque figures.

Working on a little more power soon :badgrin:Come back when you can make that power without assistance :gtfo: lol

who are you? lol
Dunno either. I thought he was banned :bowrofl:

Sorry, J

']forgetting about me? lol my car put out 165kw atw with massive torque figures.

Working on a little more power soon :badgrin:
im still trying to figure out how you got so much torque. According to the last graph i saw from you, you are in the same ballpark that booya was. Around 600nm? But he had turbo... so what am i reading wrong here?

']forgetting about me? lol my car put out 165kw atw with massive torque figures.

Working on a little more power soon :badgrin:
im still trying to figure out how you got so much torque. According to the last graph i saw from you, you are in the same ballpark that booya was. Around 600nm? But he had turbo... so what am i reading wrong here?

By the way Mark. Good to see some decent figures now. I was in your previous car with the emanage in it. Can't wait to see how the manual pulls now :)

i will be doing a manual conversion soon so will give you the figures that i get from it.

']forgetting about me? lol my car put out 165kw atw with massive torque figures.

Working on a little more power soon :badgrin:

Sorry man, I knew you were running quick times but I've never seen or heard your power figures :P

Matthius

With regards to the auto car........ well it really is abit of a mystery as far as I'm concerned. The strangest thing is - since I've removed all the mods from it, it really doesn't feel that much slower....... which I assumed it would if something along the way had made it loose power. It's really not like any of the mods where faulty - because they are all on the new car (with the exception of the CAI piping).

I asked the guy that had tuned them both what his thoughts on it were, and while he agreed that the auto box wouldn't suck that much power out of it - all he said was "there's Monday, Wednesday, and Friday cars" (for those that don't understand - it's reference to the day of the week a car was built, and the supposed link to quality of workmanship on various days of the week).

As far as I'm concerned - it really just goes to show how less responsive the Auto version of the car is to modifications of that kind :confused: .


Cars vary hugely from the factory, some cars are quick and some are slugs, they have tolerances in their builds - which are usually massive(in comparison to human built things), thats why low volume supercars cost so much, because they're much closer to blueprinted.

You get a car thats pretty close to perfect and you'll be good on fuel, fast etc, get a car that might be at the end of the productions plants service period and your car might be "just" in tolerance and so pass, but be an absolute bucket - luck of the draw really.

Matthius

very very nice work Black Beard :cool:

don't stress about getting into 14's, even a poor manual driver would get into the 14's with that sort of power :)

oh and WTCHME's 165kW and 14.4sec 1/4 mile was done using NOS? wow, much respectability lost in those figures.

Tim-E - Nope my quater mile time was done prior to half of the mods on my car now. I was reading around 136kw atw when i got that time. I'm confident im easily in the 13s now. Just havent had the time/weather to prove it. ps what nos? there aint no bottle in my car atm.

very very nice work Black Beard :cool:

don't stress about getting into 14's, even a poor manual driver would get into the 14's with that sort of power :)



Thats re-assurring, because ATM I'm a pretty poor manual driver :bowrofl:

So anyone got any advise on where I should look for more power?? I'm probably gonna sort out the suspension as soon as I sell the other TJ, and then once the handling is sorted...... I'm sure I'll be looking for a little more oomph!

I'm currently considering a smallish, low mount, stealth, single turbo install - running fairly coservative boost, but hopefully giving good usable power / torque thru most of the rev range. I don't know **** about turbos, so I don't even know if what I've described above is even possible.

The other option going forward is to chase some more NA hp - so cams, and headwork basically. Essentially I've reached the cross roads here....... if I do anymore mods towards NA power, they're not going to suit any forced induction mods, and vice versa.

**cough**turbo**cough*


lol

I'm currently considering a smallish, low mount, stealth, single turbo install - running fairly coservative boost, but hopefully giving good usable power / torque thru most of the rev range. I don't know **** about turbos, so I don't even know if what I've described above is even possible.


that really sounds like a supercharger kit to me!

']Tim-E - Nope my quater mile time was done prior to half of the mods on my car now. I was reading around 136kw atw when i got that time. I'm confident im easily in the 13s now. Just havent had the time/weather to prove it. ps what nos? there aint no bottle in my car atm.

fair enough, i apologise :redface:

that really sounds like a supercharger kit to me!

Superchargers do have their benefits........ but at this stage I'm thinking I should be able to get it up and running for less than the cost of a sprintex kit supplied. Not only that, but if I get a turbo install done, I can always run higher boost down the track if I decide to strengthen the engine....... AFAIK - Sprintex S/C's can't be modified to produce more boost.
:confused:

However, with the sprintex kit I think you'd see a pretty ****in awesome gain in hp, especially with your mods. As you've said, you've pretty much reached the limit where any more mods will limit you to either a) staying NA, or b) going with forced induction.

Although, do Sprintex require you to leave your stock cams in?

I reckon... if you've got the cash... push your car to the limits with NA mods, and then whack a Sprintex kit on.

But I'm gonna throw my money at my 4spd Auto, until I have mods comparable to yours... and HOPEFULLY, the results wont be as depressing! If they are, well I guess I'll just have to do a Black Beard and search for a manual...

:D

Mate she's sounding good, here's the best info I've seen on turbos, have a read and you'll know the difference between normal air and squashed air :nuts: :bowrofl:.
seriously it's brilliant.
http://turbomustangs.com/turbotech/main.htm