well i smelled coolant on the drive home the other night from work and was fearing the worst. i had a look and couldnt see any noticeable leaks at first but then i checked underneath the intake manifold and noticed it was damp and smelled like coolant. i thought this would happen eventually as the manifold had corroded through in the past and had been dodgily repaired(a common problem with the first gens).
the repair has given way and started leaking. so now ive had to take the carby and vacum lines, dizzy and water pipes to take off the intake manifold. luckily i had a spare manifold and gasket all ready to go :D. so ive taken to the new manifold with a file to smooth of the sharp edges and port it slightly so it will flow nicely with the adapter plate.

hopefully all will go well and i will have "Evie" back on the road by tommorow.

heres some pics of what ive been working on.

tell me why you need coolant ????

water doesnt eat alloy

coolant does

water eats steel and cast iron

my patrol hasnt had coolant for 6 years 90000km

no alloy is frosty
or eaten

it gets flushed every 6 months refilled with water

the 4th pic is were that stainless steel fuel evaporation chamber thing bolts to, its has 3 pipes on it. 1 to the carby, 1 fuel input and 1 to the return line. oh the green you can see is the old coolant, not corrosion damage.
i was recommended titan coolant for the 1st gen, some coolants apparently arent good for em. i couldnt find Titan in the shops so i will flush the system and im going to use this nulon red anti freeze anti boil, i think it will be ok? i think ill have to go back and make sure its suitable b4 opening it.
also in the gregorys manual is says to use water with a %30 mix of corrosion inhibitor.

Hey Terror.

Nice work with the rounding of edges on the manifold, but I do think you could go one better. To minimize turbulence in your intake manifold you may want to copy your adaptor plate and cut out the wall between the two inlet holes. Then grind and smooth down the sides to match, creating a large singular opening?

Food for thought?

Cheers

-Wagon*




Oh and magnus, why wouldn’t you run an engine without any corrosion inhibitors mate?? Given that the 4G54 blocks are made from iron it would be a sin to cool our engines on straight water. Out of curiosity what material is the engine block in your patrol made from?

cast iron

like i said i flush it every 6 months allways comes out clean

if it came out rusty then its coroding

Of the many cars I have had the only other cars I have had with inhibitor was my 1995 Fairmont and my 1997 falcon ute.
And I always flush my radiators when they blow a hose and that is not often.

So you guys recon it would be a good idea, I will do it tomorrow

Hey Terror.

Nice work with the rounding of edges on the manifold, but I do think you could go one better. To minimize turbulence in your intake manifold you may want to copy your adaptor plate and cut out the wall between the two inlet holes. Then grind and smooth down the sides to match, creating a large singular opening?


yeah i must admit i had wondered about doing that myself, but its back together now :doubt:

today i finished cleaning out the oil way that goes to the EGR valve which was sticking. and assembled all the parts and stuck em with gasket sealer. check out the intake runners which i smoothed out with a wire brush drill bit in an electric drill.

while its off the head did you match port it?

Bugger hey... that makes two of us then. Ive got a dremel and some grinding dies anyway so its on my "to do" list

Maybe we should organise a R+D and port / polish day with some other perth weber enthusiasts, exchange a little know how on these handy little conversions and get them running sweet, plus exchanging some ideas and know-how

Good luck with your current work anyways mate

-Wagon*

the head had been ported before and i just smoothed out the intake manifold so there is no lip at the end and tried to smooth out the casting marks that run down the sides of the intake runners, they were sticking out a 1mm or 2 or some places. i also trimmed the gasket so it didnt interfere with the flow of air.

Whatever you say magnus, 90000kms is still only "fresh" in terms of engine life. Besides i think you have missed the point of Terrors thread anyways. Oh and Goodluck with your Patrol anyways mate.

For the record it is vital that you use a mitsu-friendly corrosion inhibitor (flo-kleen for example) in our 4G54's as the cooling system is renouned for corrosion issues

-Wagon*

every magna that ive had come into work has issues with alloy getting eaten away

water doesnt eat it
coolant does

its done 90000km without coolant the motor has done 390000 all up

Whatever you say mate, well done for racking up 390000kms to a vehicle is all i have to say. However like others here on these informative forums im here for Research and Development, not to start keyboard bashing in a fruitless internet war. If you feel that you hold any information that may be benificial to others (for example your argument to use straight water over coolants / inhibitors) then please start a seperate thread in the 1st gen forums. Thankyou



Back on topic here... again top work on your grinding and brushing work on your intake runners. have you completely run the runners smooth to aid flow or have you left any burring or irregularitys to help the mix of air and fuel? From whatever work you have taken from this current port job have you noticed any changes in response, power and economy

Much thanks

-Wagon*

Whatever you say mate, well done for racking up 390000kms to a vehicle is all i have to say. However like others here on these informative forums im here for Research and Development, not to start keyboard bashing in a fruitless internet war. If you feel that you hold any information that may be benificial to others (for example your argument to use straight water over coolants / inhibitors) then please start a seperate thread in the 1st gen forums. Thankyou

-Wagon*
umm read the 1st post

the manafold was coroded so it sprung a leak

i think 90000km corosion test on a motor thats done 390000 is a fair test.
if any fitting on your motor has a frosty look to it or the green stain aroung the hoses...
that is because of the inhibitor is reacting with the alloy...

what metal is used on boats???
2 ...stainless,,,,and alloy i dont see anyone spraying coolant on there boats do u?

umm read the 1st post

the manafold was coroded so it sprung a leak

i think 90000km corosion test on a motor thats done 390000 is a fair test.
if any fitting on your motor has a frosty look to it or the green stain aroung the hoses...
that is because of the inhibitor is reacting with the alloy...

what metal is used on boats???
2 ...stainless,,,,and alloy i dont see anyone spraying coolant on there boats do u?

silly question dude, seeing that coolant costs a little more than water, and isnt really all that good for washing boats i do wonder why i dont see anyone spraying their boats with coolant :confused:

Ok, first post, manifold sprung a leak from a corroded manifold that had a dodgy repair... fine, ive read that. But then terror then continues to explain and show his latest improvement to a spare intake manifold that he had in his possession. at no point has he asked for any advice in regards to coolant choice

Seeing as this is not my thread i will let Terror explain as to which course he would like this thread to take. If you have any other queries please dont hesitate to contact me via the PM system

Thankyou

-Wagon* :doubt:

well i cant tell what difference it will have yet as it isnt 100% complete. the old manifold the intake runners were polished almost mirror smooth but i dont think i was getting the best fuel/air mix so this time i have just left them with the finish i got with the wire brush.

btw you both have valid points with the coolant issue, some coolants are known to eat the alloy in these engines like battery acid ive been warned never to use techtalloy. however running plain water will also cause a buildup of corrosion, i know my dad compeltly fked the old engine, intake manifold and radiator because he only ever topped the system up with tap water. sludgy calcium desposits everywhere!

and and when the guys at rpw put this engine in they filled it with titan coolant and said the other best option is mitusbishi genuine coolant. and they do know have a lot of experience with astrons. i think it really depends on the quality and properties of the coolant. the one i just purchased is a anti freeze, anti boil and anti corrosive coolant.

Ok, sweet as

Yeah a "brushed" finish on the inside of your runners should give you a good compromise between flow and turbulence. Be sure to post updates of any problems or conveniences you may find

Cheers
-Wagon*

BTW: Good to see that sidetracks have now been resolved :)

well i stuffed up pretty well :cry:



got everything back together this morning and started it up, it sounded a little rough but was ok. anyway i took it for a drive and the induction note and whistle from the carby sounded better and the car did have slightly more power or at least the same. anyway i got it home and parked in the garage and it sounded like a pig ! idleing with intermitted doof from the exhaust.i checked the leads and mixture, they seemed ok, checked for vacum leaks, couldnt find any. was very stumped. in the end i figured i stuffed up and didnt use enough gasket sealer and either water or air was getting into the intake runners and causing a miss.

so i stripped the whole lot again today and had to make a new gasket. anyway got my sister to help me put lots of gasket sealer on the gasket and manifold/head to save a bit of time, bolted it all back on, connected up all the hoses, put the dizzy back in, reconnected the accel cable, connected and checked all the vacum lines, i was in a hurry because i had to pick dad up at 2pm. anyway it got to quarter to 2 just as i finished assembling everything, so i checked it was all tight, went to start and it just turner over and over, wouldnt fire.
tracked it down to somting wrong with the timing and adjust the dizzy each way as far as it would go. started to get at least a little bit of firing. what i had done was put the dizzy back in and the gear that connects it to the cam? had moved and had totally thrown the timing out so i had to keep turning it, putting it back in and trying it untill i could get it started. finally it started, with max advance on the fine adjustment aswell it was finally drivable but missing slightly at idle and idling at 1500rpm :shock:

anyway i had to drive it to pick dad up, and despite the timing being way off it seemed to have way more power than before ! really went well.
but i cannot say for sure if this is because of my intake mods, or because i dissconnected the EGR valve from the vacume lines to simplifiy the setup to get it working or maybe its because i use gasket sealer on the adapter plate gaskets ?

anyway it will be great to see how it goes ones i set the timing correctly again, maybe ill just leave the egr deleted :badgrin:

Apart from your mishap it sounds pretty good terror, could be possible that it felt like it had heaps more power availible due to your timing been advanced to buggery, but it shouldnt be too tricky to get your timing back on track with a cheap timing strobe.

Im suprised however that you have not by-passed your EGR when you did you weber swap. It gives you a cleaner A/F burn without the extra smog been recirculated thru your system but dare i say that the EPA guys dont really appreciate dudes like us tinkering with those sort of things. But hey, they probibly wouldnt like us adapting the use of webers onto our 4G54's anyways. By the way the EGR system is designed it should only run at periods when the engine if off load, say when your cruising or at idle. This system should be disengage itself at WOT

Needless to say if you are after minor performance gains and tuneability feel free to by-pass it by all means**


cheers
-Wagon*




**disclaimer; intended for off-road use only ;)

im pretty sure the extra power is due to the fact that the mixture isnt drawing in extra air causing the mixture to lean out. there was definatly some leaks around the adapter plate. the timing is resonably close atm, around 13 deg at idle with the vacum advance connected. the power delivery is smoother and feels torquier right through the rev range. some of the EGR stuff has been dissconected before but the egr valve at the back had been left connected. removing the vacum line from it disables it right ?

the only problem i have now is the vacum advance retards the timing too quickly when you pull up to stop and causes the engine to stumble, which i should be able to fix using a vacum delay valve or only using the 1 line on it.

Yes, disconnecting the vaccum on the EGR disables it. Dont worry about taking the whole thing apart unless you fancy doing some more TIG work to fill in the EGR port as well.

Strange that your timing retards too quickly causing a stumble. Quick question.. When you got the workshop to do work to your engine did they also modify your ignition curve by any stage?

Sounds like you have a plan to get your ignition sorted :thumbsup:


Cheers
-Wagon*

grrr stupid car !!!!





well after driving it around for a few days i noticed i was still losing coolant, i had another look under the bonnet and i noticed moisture near the bottom of the adapter plate for the carby. well obviously i didnt seal off the coolant properly so i had to take off the carby and put a bolt in the hole for the coolant and put it all back together. anyway finished putting it back together today, filled the coolant back up took it out for a drive with the heater on to circulate the coolant, all was well. got home and i noticed that there was coolant colour stains on my floor matts !

the heater was leaking coolant into the car!

so ive had to bypass the heater and run the hose straight back onto the intake manifold to stop the leaking, wash my floor matts and put im in the process or trying to dry the carpet.

maybe its time to sell up and buy a dunnydoor ? :shock:

Strange that your timing retards too quickly causing a stumble. Quick question.. When you got the workshop to do work to your engine did they also modify your ignition curve by any stage?



nah the ignition curve hasnt really been touched, i plan to have the car dyno tuned but money is always a bit tight for me at the moment as im working on a casual basis.
im going for my forklift ticket saturday fortnight, so i should be able to get a few more hours work then. forklift drivers/warehouse storepersons are pretty soughtafter atm. i dont know why i bothered studying I.T. after high school, would have been better off to do a trade or somthing. :rant:

Not good to hear the bad news mate. It would be a shame to see such a prime project such as this go to waste due to a few niggly problems :cry:

I think the heater-cores in our magnas have a reputation for failing over given time, this may or may not be related to the said issue of using the wrong coolant brands leading to increased corrosion. Then again this could be possible if you said that your old man had used straight water on your original engine. also be sure to check hoses for leaks as rubber also naturally perishes over time. Seeing as this is a common fault it may be best to go without a heater core system and do some research and look into an electric-operated heating system and see if we can adapt one for use within the magnas aircon / airflow system.

That or you can always scounge the wreckers for a healthy looking heater replacement and do the usual DIY patch em ups :P

Yeah mate, there is a very big call for the trades at the moment especially here in WA. Get that forkie lisence and get in contact with a freighting company (TNT, toll or the like). you shouldnt find it too hard to pick up work from there

-Wagon

im going for my forklift ticket saturday fortnight

Where can you apply for one ?

theres heaps of places in the yellow pages in the forklifts section. prices usually range between 220 to 260 bucks. allied forklifts seemed to have the best price.