i have found information on the removal of the balence shaft TO PROVE that it is a good mod to DO
all the mitsubi eclip's have put this down as a performence MOD and its good and sAFE!!!!!!!!!!
FOR ALL OF YOU WHO Were yelling at me and BAging heydude and my self out for this moD.... here you go!!

http://4g64.150m.com/performance.html
[quote:5709874bab]Internal Engine Performance Upgrades

Balance Shafts: Balance shaft removal is the same as the 4G63T engines. See the VFAQ page for directions.

[/quote:5709874bab]

Check it out I AM NOT CRAY this mod works and works WELL!!! for all of you who douted me and spat on me and saying how stupid it was to do,....

What ws tHAT piNES?1!!??

I am **edit forgot the not** not flaming you, but your posts can be really hard to read sometimes... amybe you should try slowing the typing down, or previeving your post before submission :roll:

Oi i understood his post perfectly...

Pisses me off when people Go i didnt understand your post...

maybe You should slow down and read it carefully!

anyway.....

I thought last time we worked out that removing the balance shaft was ok in certain engines?

i still dont understand why would many hours and millions of dollars be spent on engineers designing an engine with balance shafts, and then to simply take them out.
It doesnt add up to me, sure it might be a mod and there might be some benefits, but ther must be sideeffects.

i still dont understand why would many hours and millions of dollars be spent on engineers designing an engine with balance shafts, and then to simply take them out.
It doesnt add up to me, sure it might be a mod and there might be some benefits, but ther must be sideeffects.

reliability

they put it there becouse they have a standard..
why do they put a restrictive air filteR??
why do they put crap stock rims why do they use steiilys??
why do they have a restrictive muffler??
u tell me...

ha ha, go pines. You have a point there

Arn't ballance shafts there just to smooth the engine out a bit, so it feels more refined, I see no real issue in removing one of them, I doubt the engines strength is dependent on that one shaft.

no its not!
BUT ITs robbing manny manny 4 cylders of there precious power :'( so sad:S

Pines: what gain do you achieve from removing it, in terms of kw?

I will not go in to the dynamics of the 2.4 4cyl as I have not had to do this on one but the dirrerence in removing the balance shafts on the 2.6 is nothing so far as power goes.
Robbing precious power, you will not notice it.
The engine does run a bit rougher, it is only done in these as the balance chain is a problem in all 2.6 astron engines and there is a kit that completly revoves them.
As for this site where he does remove them, if this is the guy who cuts his belts with sidecutters, well do we need to say more.
Go ahead if you wish, Mitsubishi did put them there for a reason and to compare them to steel rims or an airfilter, well might as well compare a headlight to a tow bar. The cost is huge to start with, these are fairly large engines and these shafts are for both vibration and engine harmonics. Have seen many gen1 astrons with cracked blocks in the past.
If you want precious power, buy a V6 or a Skyline of a big muther Turbo for the 4 banger.

u think what you want!
the evedence and proof is all i need

2.4's HAVe a hard time spinning the weels in the try off lights........

NOT ANYMORE!! it enjoys lighting up the weels now thanx...

the balence shaft is running off the cam!!!!!!!!! and is spinning 2 times as fast as the camshaft!! so if its disconnected the cam dosent have to spin this hunk of metal around 2 times as fast as the cam....
U FIgure it out....

i dont see a problem with removing the harmonic balancer in a 2.4 ..
aparently, the largest size you are supposed to go to in a 4 cyl is 2.4ltrs, otherwise they run roughly - so mitsu puts in a harmonic balancer which offsets the vibration and makes a smoother motor.

since u are doing it to a 2.4, i wouldnt think there would be too much difference and i doubt that its gonna affect reliablilty, its only there to offset some vibration and make the car feel smoother..

the only thing i could see is quicker wear of engine mounts or something.....
Im with pines on this one :)

Is it true that Mitsubishi invented the harmonic balancer and the other car manufacturers like porsches and such are paying them royalties for the technology?

Back to the topic... Has anyone erm... got a dyno chart to accertain the increase in HP with this mod... if there is any? 8)

One prob about your conversation mate, it's the 2.4 not the 2.6 astron.

Ok lets clear up something, a magna does not have a harmonic balancer, the front pulley only drives the belt.

Pines....the shafts run from the crank not the . if you cam is sitting in your sump that should tell you something is very wrong.

At the end of the day, removing the belt on the balance shaft will give you probably less power gain than removing you air con belt.

On the 2.6 there is a kit to remove them as they are an issue with chains however 2.4 do not have this issue.

I can see the next RPW mod, High Performance Anti Balance Shaft Removal Kit, a pair of side cutters for ,,,wait for it.....$600.00, but wait, there's more, you too can also get the steak knives if you call now.

http://rhdude.com/pictures/own3d%20rally%20car.jpg

Come on ease up guys...

From the people i've spoken to they reccomend it, so im going to give it a shot and report my findings. If i stuff something up it just gives me a change to make it better :D

im sueing you ash3 for breach of copyright!!

MY IDEA HAS BEEN STOLEN!!! pfffft

LEAVE THAT POOR kid alone!

Dude..if its spinning twice as fast as you say...imagine the wear and tear on ya engine? Make sure u continuly check all ya fluids...

Ill still diss the mod as it just sounds dodgy as a MOFO.

And as was said earlier they use 'steelies' n cheap crap like that to cut cost...

Is there any reason my post was deleted? Arent expert opinions wanted here or something.........nice moderating, pfffffft. Grow up. :roll:

I didnt delete anything
Ask Manual, Risky Rog, or Blake

I saw no problem with your post, or any posts in this thread.

well i certainly hoped it wasnt you killbilly. Either way, whoever it was you shouldnt be deleting posts just because u dont like them, moderator powers are there to remove inappropriate material, like that retard infront of the WRX, im sure some ppl would take offence to that.

True, as I said, I have no problem with anything that's been said so far.

The conversation you posted was informative to me, so it would've been ludicrous to delete it.

It was about the 2.6 though, whereas this topic is about the 2.4 but that doesnt warrant deleting it?

Sorry mate, I have no idea who did it, but you can post it again if you wish.

seriously guys i did a gh scorpion up took the balance shafts out. :shock: did not make it rev or go harder i think it is a waste of time but up to u guys

Well this was it, an expert opinion from someone who has been a mechanic for over 20 years, has owned a Turbo Sigma, and a non-turbo 4g54. I think he knows what he's talking about.



[16:46:48] SamuRai: hey can i ask you a question
[16:46:56] Hermit: yes?
[16:47:03] SamuRai: do u remember much about the astron motor?
[16:47:09] SamuRai: mitsubishi 2.6l 4xyl
[16:47:13] SamuRai: 4cyl
[16:47:39] Hermit: yes
[16:47:48] SamuRai: ok, it has balance shafts........
[16:47:58] SamuRai: theres this guy on magna forums saying to take
them out.....
[16:48:18] SamuRai: arent they there for a reason :S
[16:48:31] Hermit: yep...to balance out the engine
[16:48:43] SamuRai: so takin them out would make it heaps rougher....
[16:48:50] Hermit: Porsche thought it was a good idea because they use
a similar thing in their engines
[16:49:10] SamuRai:
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3281&post
days=0&postorder=asc&start=0
[16:49:15] SamuRai: this is the forum post....
[16:50:50] SamuRai: it all sounds a bit dodgy to me
[16:51:07] Hermit: I'll have a read and I'll tell you
[17:05:41] Hermit: hey Matt..
[17:05:50] SamuRai: ....
[17:05:53] SamuRai: yeah?

[17:09:12] Hermit: The balance shafts are there to smooth out any
vibrational forces caused by the reciprocating action of
the pistons
[17:09:22] Hermit: you know...them going up and down
[17:09:28] SamuRai: yeah
[17:09:53] Hermit: well in the 4G52 and 4G54
[17:10:02] Hermit: (2.6l and 2.0l
[17:10:10] Hermit: they have 2 shafts
[17:10:27] Hermit: one on the left hand side and the other on the
right
[17:11:31] Hermit: a single row balance shaft chain goes around these
shafts and a gear on the front of the crankshaft
[17:12:08] Hermit: the balance shaft on the right hand side of the
block (exhaust side of the block)
[17:12:22] Hermit: actually drives the oil pump
[17:12:50] Hermit: both shafts sit in tunnels in the block and run on
bearings
[17:13:05] Hermit: there are oil galleries that feed these bearings
[17:13:36] Hermit: so, what they used to do is cut the shafts and
leave them in there
[17:13:52] Hermit: bedcause if you take them out you will not have ANY
oil pressure
[17:14:48] Hermit: Usually they cut the right hand one behind the oil
pump (because you still need the front snout of the balance
shaft to drive the oil pump)
[17:15:25] Hermit: then they put a short chain around the crank gear
and the balance shaft gear at the front of the oil pump
[17:15:42] Hermit: the other shaft you can just leave in there
[17:16:01] Hermit: you don't have to cut it as it now hasn't got a
cjain going around it
[17:16:07] Hermit: chain*
[17:16:47] Hermit: there is one dude there that says this modification
is done because the Astron motors had a problem with the
balance shaft chains
[17:16:53] Hermit: that is bullshit
[17:17:17] Hermit: if you use a good quality chain (like genuine) you
will not have a problem
[17:17:33] SamuRai: oh btw u were right about how much the chain kit
costs.....i got mine replaced the kit was $170
[17:18:03] Hermit: if you put in some aftermarket Taiwanese rubbish
then the chain will stretch and you would be lucky to get
50,000km out of it
[17:18:51] Hermit: the reason why some of these engines use to break a
chain guide was because mechanics would never adjust the
balance shaft chain
[17:19:33] Hermit: so it would slap around and eventually break the
pivot bolt on the adjustable guide
[17:20:08] Hermit: Mitsubishi changed that bolt from 6mm to 8mm thread
in later models (GN onwards I think)
[17:20:27] Hermit: disconnecting the balance shafts is a complete
waste of time
[17:20:52] Hermit: it doesn't give you any real usable power increase
[17:21:05] SamuRai: dude would u mind if i posted what you've said?
[17:21:10] Hermit: post away man
[17:21:14] SamuRai: thanx
[17:21:17] Hermit: but like I said..
[17:21:21] SamuRai: u were a mechanic for how long?
[17:21:24] Hermit: if it was such a bad idea...
[17:21:34] Hermit: then why would Porsche use it?
[17:21:42] Hermit: and other manufacturers as well?
[17:21:49] SamuRai: yeah true
[17:21:53] Hermit: Mechanic for 20 years
[17:22:03] Hermit: owned a GJ Sigma for 20 years also
[17:22:07] Hermit: 2.6
[17:22:21] Hermit: What I don't know anout the 4G54 engine isn't worth
knowing
[

nice :)

bugger it hey, no point in removing the shaft on the 2.6

who cares. at the end of the day your still gonna have a four cylinder tank that cant keep up with anything anyway. why would you want your already slow car to run rougher and spin its wheels at the lights. just makes for a slower take off again. you probably think its cool to drive in the rain with bald tires too. (sorry if this sounds harsh, i just felt like being an arse)

Well this was it, an expert opinion from someone who has been a mechanic for over 20 years, has owned a Turbo Sigma, and a non-turbo 4g54. I think he knows what he's talking about.


[17:13:05] Hermit: there are oil galleries that feed these bearings
[17:13:36] Hermit: so, what they used to do is cut the shafts and
leave them in there
[17:13:52] Hermit: bedcause if you take them out you will not have ANY
oil pressure
[17:14:48] Hermit: Usually they cut the right hand one behind the oil
pump (because you still need the front snout of the balance
shaft to drive the oil pump)
[17:15:25] Hermit: then they put a short chain around the crank gear
and the balance shaft gear at the front of the oil pump
[17:15:42] Hermit: the other shaft you can just leave in there
[17:16:01] Hermit: you don't have to cut it as it now hasn't got a
cjain going around it"""
THATS WHAT I HAVE DONE!! its still sitting in there...
i havent touched the other one coz the oil pump is on that! :P


[17:16:07] Hermit: chain*
[17:16:47] Hermit: there is one dude there that says this modification
is done because the Astron motors had a problem with the
balance shaft chains
[17:16:53] Hermit: that is bullshit""
ahh hahha!!!! hahahha LOL!!! ROFL :badgrin:




[17:20:27] Hermit: disconnecting the balance shafts is a complete
waste of time"
i have time to waste...



"
[17:20:52] Hermit: it doesn't give you any real usable power increase"
I WILL BE FINDING OUT THIS WEEKEND AS I AM GETTING A DYNO DONE TO PROVE YOU BUGGERS wRONG!!



[17:21:17] Hermit: but like I said..
[17:21:21] SamuRai: u were a mechanic for how long?
[17:21:24] Hermit: if it was such a bad idea...
[17:21:34] Hermit: then why would Porsche use it?
[17:21:42] Hermit: and other manufacturers as well?
[17:21:49] SamuRai: yeah true
[17:21:53] Hermit: Mechanic for 20 years


thank you Samurai for actualy posting this information instead of hiding this from the light of this forum..
much apretiated
all you closed mionded v6 owners out there TRY ANd oPen up a little !!!....

Did you say closed mined?

I can't here you your too far behind, better pull over and wait for ya four banger to catch up! :)



hehehehehehehe

j/k :lol:

wise words from hermit yet again :lol:

Did you say closed mined?

I can't here you your too far behind, better pull over and wait for ya four banger to catch up! :)



hehehehehehehe

j/k :lol:
when you comming to sydney>?? u want to c my car in person?? i belive you will have a hard time pulling away from me...
ask some peoplpe who have gon up agains me!!

dsl-03l he went up against me! he had a verry hard time pulling away from me..

richie WGNBOY: hes seen my car in action!!

killbilly: i have been on a cruze with him!! i dont know if he saw my car in action but he was there..

:) hehe!!

Dude, why are you so denfensive? I did state what I said was a joke!

Please, don't tell me that I'm going to have a hard time "pulling away" from your car, I used to own a 2.4lt TE magna with mods and I know who will be WAY infront at the end of the 1/4

Pffft Close Minded??

Us V6s are Close Minded???

Heeeheeeheee What a joke dude....

And BlackBeast won't let a 4 Banger magna with a few hundred grams shaved off because of a balance shaft removal beat her... :p

I'll be close minded hahahahaha.. when I see you vanishing from my rear view mirror in tatters.... eat my dust.. :lol: :p :D 8)

Dude, why are you so denfensive? I did state what I said was a joke!

Please, don't tell me that I'm going to have a hard time "pulling away" from your car, I used to own a 2.4lt TE magna with mods and I know who will be WAY infront at the end of the 1/4

im so defencive becouse this isnt the first time peopple have gon ON AND ON ABout the this moD...
you should be interested in my car then.... :) if you ownd the same modle your self?
what did u do to it? im interested...
and for the fool below this post!!
get lost..

u dont know what els i have dont to my car u cant talk!..