Hi everybody

Just wanted to let you know that the Fuel Rail Kit for 2nd Gens is performing even better than expected.

Here's a post from an AMC member:

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showpost.php?p=471422&postcount=103

The explanation is due to:

The timing advance is held at optimum by the knock sensor - something that 3rd Gens do not have.

Torque response is proportionally better due to the single inlet/exhaust valve design

The air-fuel ratio is held at a level required for performance - not pollution control

Combine these characteristics with the extra power available from the Fuel Kit, CAI, and a panel air filter and you have real improvement.

Donations

We are running a donation draw for a Fuel Rail Kit for 3rd Gens, and it also suits the 2nd Gen V6, so you are welcome to enter.

The Kit for the 2.6L 4cyl engine is simpler, very easy to fit DIY (no plenum to remove) and costs only $29.50

The winner of the draw can choose either a Kit for the V6, or two Kits for the 2.6L

Good luck

Barry

got pics of the 2.6l kit?

oo cant wait to install This barry, so do you know if there is a gasket under the plenium?

because if there is no gasket this would make things a ton easier i hate shopping for gaskets

']oo cant wait to install This barry, so do you know if there is a gasket under the plenium?

because if there is no gasket this would make things a ton easier i hate shopping for gaskets

Hi P

There should be a gasket, and for the 2nd Gen it is not critical, so the genuine one will do.

They are usually reusable.

Cheers, Barry

Well I put my 3rd gen kit in tonight and I'm flat-out astonished at the noticeable difference 4 lumps of metal and a bit of wire makes! I won't bother with that flowed throttle body I had in mind now - with the other tweaks I've got going and now the fuel rail kit, she's entirely a sweet drive just as she is... Bewdy Barry!

got pics of the 2.6l kit?



...................... ?

...................... ?

Hi Sam.........!

The Kit once fitted to the 2.6L is just about invisible due to the design of the fuel rail - and I will post a Pic of something meaningful asap

I have a pic of the 3.5L which shows more of what they look like when fitted, and is very similar to the 2nd Gen 3.0L

Cheers, Barry

not really interested in what they look like fitted, more so interested in what it actually looks on its own, so i can see how its different from the standard fuel rail.

not really interested in what they look like fitted, more so interested in what it actually looks on its own, so i can see how its different from the standard fuel rail.

The Kit once fitted to the 2.6L is just about invisible due to the design of the fuel rail - and I will post a Pic of something meaningful asap

The Fuel Rail itself is not different - it's all in the Ferro-alloy mounts for the fuel rail, it's very easy to fit, and it comes with instructions
Barry

sure why not. might as well get one for my 2.6L. now im back at uni ive actually got spare time to work on the car.

so im guessing because the fuel is performing better, its more efficient?

if i do this mod, along with the advanced timing/colder spark plug mod my tr should not be a burden wen it comes to bowser time?

Hey Man....


so im guessing because the fuel is performing better, its more efficient?

if i do this mod, along with the advanced timing/colder spark plug mod my tr should not be a burden wen it comes to bowser time?

To estimate fuel economy, I need to know what fuel/grade, what type spark plugs you are currently using, and how many degrees your dist. is advanced.

Any other mods? Let me know back

Barry

pardon my ignorance but how do we get one from you barry.

tr1

just give him a PM dood:)

i've come to the conclusion this "fuel rail kit" is nothing more than a couple little alluminium mounts, 10-15mm thick, (worth no more than a couple cents). The principle yur working on is that alluminium is a good conductor of heat and thus will help the fuel rail heat up which will assist in vapourization of the fuel.

Thanks, but no thanks, i think i'll keep my $50, and get some off-cuts of alluminium for free and turn them down to size and drill them on the lathe at work. I think that any grade of alluminium is going to conduct heat much better than the existing plastic rings......

for your car it wont cost more then $30 i dont see why you would go to all that trouble.

for $30 i can have more than 5 metres of 15mm round alluminium. (hmmmmmm thats a ****load of 'fuelrail kits')

besides its not "all that trouble" when im gettin paid to do it during work time. i'd rather be makin stuff for my car, than doing the work im supposed to be doing. It'll take a whole 5 mins to make anyway.

pardon my ignorance but how do we get one from you barry.

tr1

Hi tr1
Just PM me your postal name and address and I will send you my details
Let me know of any current/proposed mods and if you have any resonator/egr type mods

Price includes registered delivery anywhere in Aust.

Cheers, Barry

c'mon samurai,
$30-$50 is hardly a ripoff for something that allegedly fixes the famous magna 'KN flat spot'. -even if the fix is a simple one. i'm sure he's spent a lot of time on this project and following up with people who have used it to see if it works in all applications etc etc.
even if he sells a few hundred, making $20 off each kit thats not mega-bucks.

of course i get your point- if you have a lathe at work, i'd make my own as you can make your own for practically nothing, but how much would you sell a kit you made if you had to go to the trouble of packing ,sending writing instructions and organising payment etc?

i've come to the conclusion this "fuel rail kit" is nothing more than a couple little alluminium mounts, 10-15mm thick, (worth no more than a couple cents). The principle yur working on is that alluminium is a good conductor of heat and thus will help the fuel rail heat up which will assist in vapourization of the fuel.

Thanks, but no thanks, i think i'll keep my $50, and get some off-cuts of alluminium for free and turn them down to size and drill them on the lathe at work. I think that any grade of alluminium is going to conduct heat much better than the existing plastic rings......


Hi Sam......
I am just :) ing as I read your post and remember how many trial and errors we had before coming up with exactly the right density and material to get the fuel temp. to optimum

Its not just aluminium, but a combination of ferro-alloy to give the reqd. density in a given volume

We get it as a billet and then machine it down to size

Performance reports from AMC members tell me we have it just about right......

Cheers

Hi Sam......
I am just :) ing as I read your post and remember how many trial and errors we had before coming up with exactly the right density and material to get the fuel temp. to optimum

Its not just aluminium, but a combination of ferro-alloy to give the reqd. density in a given volume

We get it as a billet and then machine it down to size

Performance reports from AMC members tell me we have it just about right......

Cheers

Yes barry ive done it too, its not that hard when ya have the know how, hell i even got mine anodised for sumthing to do. :D

cmon guys, dont critisize him. hes doin good for all the ppl like me, who would never be able to come up with this idea/have the means to fabricate it.

sam, so what u can make it for cheaper - i dont see u offering to make them for other members?

barry, as soon as i get round to servicing my tr i will grab one of these kits off ya. "ill get back to ya barry!" (hehe ahh the memories of the yogo yoghurt add)

So whats it gunna cost me for my car and what are the benifits of it all..?? :confused:

for your car i think is just under $50..

The performance of my TR has improved significantly since purchasing and installing Barry's metal fuel/r mounts. Thanks for making these kits available to members at a very reasonable price. I'm a happy customer. Keep up the good work Barry

To estimate fuel economy, I need to know what fuel/grade, what type spark plugs you are currently using, and how many degrees your dist. is advanced.
Barry[/COLOR]

Advanced Ignition Timing: approx 24 BTDC
Spark Plug - BP7ES - 11. Colder plug with a bigger gap.
95ron
cold air intake

*edit* settings thanks to samurai - i dont know if they work, but im willing to give them a go

hey, im not tryna steal your settings or anything man, u posted them! + wen it comes to mechanics, my extent is about changing air filter/spark plugs and making $10 cold air intakes...

have you tryed this mod? have you heard ANY negative response about it? have you any backup to your claims that it is a load of shyte?

imho, you should appologise to barry for causing a ruckus. hey he never bagged your ideas!

[/end flexing my e-biceps]

Advanced Ignition Timing: approx 24 BTDC
Spark Plug - BP7ES - 11. Colder plug with a bigger gap.
95ron
cold air intake

*edit* settings thanks to samurai - i dont know if they work, but im willing to give them a go

Hey Man...
I think the timing may be optimistic. The W'shop manual says 13Deg +/- 2Deg, so I wouldn't go more than 15Deg (timing connector capped) The knock sensor needs headroom to work properly, and it works well.
With a 2.6L you want good torque.

I'd stay with NGK copper core or platinum in the correct heat range for better igniteability.

Then, if you fit the Fuel rail kit, the extra Torque response should great.

If you want good economy, I'd try it without resonator plugs, too.

Cheers, Barry

So whats it gunna cost me for my car and what are the benifits of it all..?? :confused:

Hi EGO
This Kit suits Magna V6 3.0L & 3.5L engines and also 2.6L, with fuel injection.

It improves throttle response, exhaust tone and 'droning' in sports mufflers and fuel lean-out, especially in engines fitted with cold air-induction and hi-flow air filters.

It can be fitted by people with basic mechanical ability and comes with instructions.

For 3rd Gen it costs $54.50 including delivery

Let me know if you want more info
Cheers, Barry

Hi EGOIt improves throttle response, exhaust tone and 'droning' in sports mufflers and fuel lean-out, especially in engines fitted with cold air-induction and hi-flow air filters.

I got a Haltech piggy back so i dont have this problem.. how will it benefit me now..??

I got a Haltech piggy back so i dont have this problem.. how will it benefit me now..??

Hi EGO

Well,.....I'll put it this way.

Now when you put your foot down, the expression on your face will be something like the one in your profile

Cheers, Barry

Well I think the fuel rail mod is a great one. It reduced the amount of droning from the exhaust, also throttle response was improved and for the price of the kit I would recommend it to anyone with a magna.
I have also installed the other kits Barry offers. (as you can tell in my signature) Each one of those made improvements to the running/performance of my car.

The reason I haven’t posted threads saying how great they are, is because I don’t have any sort of dyno reading or anything like that to backup my claims. Even though I know gains have been made. Also knowing how skeptical some people can be about these mods.

I think Barry is doing a great job of offering some reasonably priced kits that are effective. Keep up the good work mate!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showpost.php?p=338717&postcount=15

thanks baz, just recived it as of 30 minutes ago, and thanks for the very specific instructions aswell!!!

should be in within the week!!

cheers mate ill take some pics and let ya's all know how it turns out:)

Hi Everybody

To all those who sent Posts and Pm's in support of the 2nd Gen Kit - thanks.

I have a few PM full messages, so apologies to members - I'll get to those asap

To those who ordered Kits, I will send asap - approx. 2 days turnaround

To those who wanted Pics, the 2nd Gen Kit when fitted is almost invisible - but here are the same items as fitted to the 3rd Gen


http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showpost.php?p=338717&postcount=15

Thanks, Barry

Barry can you post a pic of this mod on a 2.6

well turns out i had absolutely nothing to do at work today, so i thought what the hell....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/Mattyp1212/mounts.jpg

killed 10 minutes, made these, these are identical to the plastic mounts that are in there originally, except made from an 6061 alluminium. the under side and the top also have the locating lips on them.

if they do wonders i might have to give barry an apology.

Please Note : these are not barry's kit, but i assume they'd be identical?

samurai, i think barry said his were some kind of ferro-alloy. ie has some iron in it- but hey, let us know how it goes if you end up fitting them. do you have a "flat-spot" at the moment?

Ok i have just finished fitteing mine to the car (TR V6) as well some new spark plugs, leads, as well as cleaning out the TB and PCV Valve

It was semi-easy to put in.

I say semi as this was the first time ive dismantled my engine before
and i say easy as after i was done i realised it was only a few bolts.

Your instructions were awesome barry, didn't miss a beat.

Ill report back in a week or two on any benifits had.

Barry could you please explain what the benefits are and whats the science behind it? Also any use on a stock car? How much again was it?

samurai, i think barry said his were some kind of ferro-alloy. ie has some iron in it- but hey, let us know how it goes if you end up fitting them. do you have a "flat-spot" at the moment?

i used 6061 alluminium as it is the most thermal conductive alluminium alloy readily available. my car had a flat spot, but this disappeared once i advanced my ignition timing and started running PULP.
had it in 2 days now, and havent noticed anything. we'll see if they do anything economy wise.

']Ok i have just finished fitteing mine to the car (TR V6) as well some new spark plugs, leads, as well as cleaning out the TB and PCV Valve

It was semi-easy to put in.

I say semi as this was the first time ive dismantled my engine before
and i say easy as after i was done i realised it was only a few bolts.

Your instructions were awesome barry, didn't miss a beat.

Ill report back in a week or two on any benifits had.


Hi P
Thanks for the feedback
The ECU sometimes takes 100-200 Km to fully adjust to the changed conditions.
Your fuel is now burning more completely, and it takes time for the carbon build-up to improve

If you get a chance, try it with the resonators as original - you might be surprised at the increased throttle response and 'lighter feel' to the throttle when driven normally (not WOT)

Cheers, Barry

Read so far then stopped, what a load of, well I will not say as I will get banned.....

Before I start, I have had over 20 years in the automotive industry, I have degrees in fuel injection systems from bosch etc.

The time the fuel spends in the rail is barely a couple of seconds before the fuel not thrown through the injectors is returned to the tank.

Has any one here thought of why ALL manufactures use the bakelite style thermal spacer for the rail? Perhaps not.

To say “my car goes so much better” after having also changed your leads, cap, button, plugs and cleaned your TB, well what the hell do you expect????? Advancing your timing 24 deg, well I just hope I get to rebuild all your motors when your exhaust valves burn out and your pistons melt

Why does someone not get this so called miracle turbo in a spacer, run a car on a dyno and then fit these, and only these and re run. The ECU will have nothing to learn, it does not measure fuel temp.

Would also like to see the temp of the fuel return before and after as well.

BTW to all of you out there, the trick is to get the intake as COOL as poss to allow the air to thicken…..

Now it is your turn to flame the crap out of me lol, quite frankly I do not give a rats, just do not say I did not warn you all when your motor ends up in your sumps

i havent actually said it has worked yet....read properly mate....

I didn't say you did, I said it won't :confused:

ok, so your saying if i notice ANY improvemnt at all, its DEFINATLY fron the new leads, spark plugs, and cleaned out TB?

how can you justify people on here how have done nothing to there cars, installed this and said there has been an improvement?

im not trying to argue with you AT ALL, im just saying like why would people make s**t up

Well i installed the kit without new leads, plugs, etc. I noticed gains and i'm happy with the result. End of my story.

Read so far then stopped, what a load of, well I will not say as I will get banned.....

Before I start, I have had over 20 years in the automotive industry, I have degrees in fuel injection systems from bosch etc.

1. The time the fuel spends in the rail is barely a couple of seconds before the fuel not thrown through the injectors is returned to the tank.

2. Has any one here thought of why ALL manufactures use the bakelite style thermal spacer for the rail? Perhaps not.

3. To say “my car goes so much better” after having also changed your leads, cap, button, plugs and cleaned your TB, well what the hell do you expect?????

Advancing your timing 24 deg, well I just hope I get to rebuild all your motors when your exhaust valves burn out and your pistons melt, do you not also realise that your injection timing is controlled by the ignition timing, you are getting fuel delivery far too early, this can lead to lean burn and holes in pistons.

I might just put a kettle in my fuel tank, throw in some coffee or red bull and give my car wings

4. Why does someone not get this so called miracle turbo in a spacer, run a car on a dyno and then fit these, and only these and re run.

5. The ECU will have nothing to learn, it does not measure fuel temp.

Would also like to see the temp of the fuel return before and after as well.

6. BTW to all of you out there, the trick is to get the intake as COOL as poss to allow the air to thicken…..

Now it is your turn to flame the crap out of me lol, quite frankly I do not give a rats, just do not say I did not warn you all when your motor ends up in your sumps

Hi Madmagna

1. Here is the concept.

If you are saying that the fuel does not have time to heat up, take a look at the design of the fuel rails, and you will notice the very large volume of each rail compared to the small diameter feeder. The injectors are fed from these larger fuel rails where the fuel slows.
Add to that a heat conducting mount, and you have sufficient heat to raise the temperature of the fuel.

I researched and road-tested this very carefully, using digital twin probe thermometers, to ensure that the fuel did in fact reach a higher temp, and also I built-in 10 Degrees of headroom to ensure that the fuel cannot overheat -

2. as one embarrased Aust. manufacturer found (not mitsubishi) when they fixed the whole length of the individual small diameter feeders to (in effect) the top of the head.

This also ensures that there would be no chance of heat soak to the fuel when a hot engine is turned off, and coolant temp. rises.

3. He did not say “my car goes so much better”

The main reason for replacing spark plugs and leads is because it is standard practice to do so while you have the plenum removed.

Even if the owner did report improved performance, I would not be claiming that it was only due to the modification, for obvious reasons.

I do certainly agree with you on excessive advanced timing.

Also, the 2nd Gens have knock sensing which should give sufficient advance, allowing for different fuels, etc.

4. This was attempted by Black Beard on his 3.5L manual, and only due to lack of time was he not able to separately measure the gain of the Fuel Rail Kit.

He was able, however, to post a very good Dyno result when combined with a modified plenum.

You can search for his thread in this forum.

5. This comment shows that you do not truly understand what is happening here.

The very fact that the ECU does not measure fuel temp. is the reason why the Fuel Kit works so well. The pre-heated fuel vaporises more readily than 'cold fuel' and provides the increased torque and throttle response that many Magna owners noticed - before the ECU has a chance to retard the timing.

I had this independently verified by a respected person in the science area, who also happened to own a Magna.

He used an air-fuel mixture meter, and it actually showed a 1-2 second increase in richness of the air-fuel ratio when accelerating, where it did not exist prior to fitting the kit.

This is why the Fuel Rail Kit is so "throttle responsive"

6. It is true of course that more dense, cooler air is good for power when combusted properly, and pre - heated fuel combusts better than cold fuel.

I have found that, using the Fuel Rail Kit I have been able to use Standard unleaded with very little difference in driveability to using premium fuels where the car does not have knock sensing.

If you really want to come to a proper conclusion about the effect of heated fuel on combustion, take look at Vaporate.com where they have numerous examples on many different vehicles

Cheers, Buddy

:zap:


shot down

Barry in the end, you are charging people $50 for 4 pieces of metal that you didnt even take the time to make properly by leaving out the locating lips. All you would be doing is turning down a bar to 22mm (or already getting a 22mm billet) drilling out to 8.5mm and cuttin it up into 10mm thick pieces. 5 minutes work, $50 in your pocket. (thats $600/hr, not a bad way to earn some money)
The locating lips on the spacers are there to make sure the fuel rail sits in the right spot. Without the locating lips it allows the person fitting them to fit the fuel rail on an angle and hence put strain on the injectors.

if yur gonna sell these miracle mounts at least make them properly and dont rip off people who dont know any better.

Basically it comes down to this:

Someone makes a claim, someone wants proof.

It's not that hard to understand.

Also if there has been so much research done into this, can we see it? Also name the scientist.

No disrespect intended...people want to see written fact.

Barry in the end, you are charging people $50 for 4 pieces of metal that you didnt even take the time to make properly by leaving out the locating lips. All you would be doing is turning down a bar to 22mm (or already getting a 22mm billet) drilling out to 8.5mm and cuttin it up into 10mm thick pieces. 5 minutes work, $50 in your pocket. (thats $600/hr, not a bad way to earn some money)
The locating lips on the spacers are there to make sure the fuel rail sits in the right spot. Without the locating lips it allows the person fitting them to fit the fuel rail on an angle and hence put strain on the injectors.

if yur gonna sell these miracle mounts at least make them properly and dont rip off people who dont know any better.


It's not really like you're making it sound

The design is made that way for a specific purpose, but while-ever you fail to recognise that light aluminium will not do the job, there is not much more I can say.

There is no problem fitting the mounts. I have just made them simpler and more effective.
If you had tried one, you would know.

As for the logistics, you are not including all the behind the scenes work, time and expense involved - Pack and post, GST, delivery etc.

I hope you realise that the back-and-forth negative sentiment expressed here does no-one any good, especially the Club.

You join a social club to help each other, not undermine.

I welcome constructive criticism.

It's not all supposed to be about you.

I trust that's the end of the matter.

The only way the matter will end Barry is if you post up some decent, acceptable proof.

You claim to have it all...why not post it?

You're willing to take the money from the public, but aren't willing to share these documents or whatever it is that you have.

Sounds fishy to anyone...I'm not here to undermine, I'm simply telling you what a lot of people are thinking. Your best bet is to shut the critics up by posting your proof and making it public.

It's not really like you're making it sound

The design is made that way for a specific purpose, but while-ever you fail to recognise that light aluminium will not do the job, there is not much more I can say.



Perhaps you could explain what properties and other metals the "ferro-alloy" you used contains? Also show the many "trial and error" tests that u mentioned earlier with different materials and how they failed and why?

i cant see how alluminium will not do the job when the fuel rail itself is made from a basic alluminium so the mounts will only transfer heat as well as the fuel rail material will allow it to.

Ok... just installed this in my car.

Firstly, my fuel economy has decreased from around 470km, to 400 per tank. And the car also feels a little less punchier on initial takeoff. I'm not complaining here, but have i done something wrong? I placed the chamfered edge facing upwards, is that right?
My fuel lines (engine bay) and fuel filter are also heat insulated to keep heat out (not in). Would this have any contribution to the worsened fuel economy? I was getting 470km when i had the heat insulation wrap alone without the fuel rail kit.

Should i remove the heat insulation and just run the fuel rail kit alone?

Ok... just installed this in my car.

Firstly, my fuel economy has decreased from around 470km, to 400 per tank. And the car also feels a little less punchier on initial takeoff. I'm not complaining here, but have i done something wrong? I placed the chamfered edge facing upwards, is that right?
My fuel lines (engine bay) and fuel filter are also heat insulated to keep heat out (not in). Would this have any contribution to the worsened fuel economy? I was getting 470km when i had the heat insulation wrap alone without the fuel rail kit.

Should i remove the heat insulation and just run the fuel rail kit alone?

remove them, and throw them in the bin, these do nothing. better yet send em back to barry and get your money back.

blooddy hell this is getting heated

everyone take a chill pill this is an forum not a boxing ring. relax for a moment

I wonder why most people are feeling significant gains then...?

This is why if Barry intends to profit off members in this community it is ONLY REASONABLE to request definitive PROOF of gains.

Until then Barry you are not entitled to sell these items within this club.

If you persist then we, the Admin, shall be forced to take further measures.

It's not asking much mate. Just cough up the proof you claim to have.

Until then, do not promote your material.

:stoopid:

i installed one of these on friday, and drove to melbourne and back over the weekend. the first full tank of fuel (to empty light) got me about 460 kms and then I topped up to get to melbourne. i filled up when i left this morning and got at extra hundred kms to empty light.. maybe coincidence, maybe not, but considering thats the only thing i changed and the ecu would have taken time to adjust, it seems reasonable to me?

It comes down to the person buying whether they think its worth it, i dont think you should ban the guy just cause you dont believe him?

i installed one of these on friday, and drove to melbourne and back over the weekend. the first full tank of fuel (to empty light) got me about 460 kms and then I topped up to get to melbourne. i filled up when i left this morning and got at extra hundred kms to empty light.. maybe coincidence, maybe not, but considering thats the only thing i changed and the ecu would have taken time to adjust, it seems reasonable to me?

It comes down to the person buying whether they think its worth it, i dont think you should ban the guy just cause you dont believe him?

Did I say that?

No.

I said unless he makes public this "proof" he claims to have then he's not entitled to sell it on this forum

It makes perfect sense so I don't see why you are arguing about it.

This also, was not a decision made by me alone, hence why I said Admin.

Ok... just installed this in my car.

Firstly, my fuel economy has decreased from around 470km, to 400 per tank. And the car also feels a little less punchier on initial takeoff. I'm not complaining here, but have i done something wrong? I placed the chamfered edge facing upwards, is that right?
My fuel lines (engine bay) and fuel filter are also heat insulated to keep heat out (not in). Would this have any contribution to the worsened fuel economy? I was getting 470km when i had the heat insulation wrap alone without the fuel rail kit.

Should i remove the heat insulation and just run the fuel rail kit alone?

Hi Fire...
Just checking a couple of things

Did you happen to disconnect power from the battery - let it reset

Are you using caps in place of the resonators - put them back to original, IMO it will sound and perform better if you do.

Have you over-advanced the distributor timing - put it back to no more than +2 Degrees.

Let me know how it goes

Thanks, Barry

Ok... just installed this in my car.

Firstly, my fuel economy has decreased from around 470km, to 400 per tank. And the car also feels a little less punchier on initial takeoff.

This is the first person as far as ive seen coming back and claiming they had a negative affect from installing the kit. My question is how much is a "tank"? If you mean from when the fuel light turns on, then my tank is between 46-50L and as such i get between 495 and 600km out of it. Anyone saying that they got X distance out of a tank means nothing unless you have an amount of fuel to match. And even then using just one instance to confirm an increase/decrease in economy means nothing.

As far as im aware the original claim for this product was not that it gave major power gains for any vehicle is was installed on, but that is fixed the "flatspot" being experienced by people who have installed a k&n panel filter. Which in most cases from responses, from people who have installed the kit, has fixed the problem. Hence from removing the "flatspot" there must be more responsiveness and more power/torque. Of course if you have a 1st or 2nd gen this kit would be next to useless as you can just advance your iginition timing to same effect.

:confused:
[/rant]

Barry could you please explain what the benefits are and whats the science behind it? Also any use on a stock car? How much again was it?

Hi Maccy D

I will be posting a report on the benefits soon
Thanks, Barry

Im going to close this thread off for now to allow Barry to get all his info together.

For those nay sayers - Prove his kit wrong, back up your claims with proof like you are asking Barry.