Hey fellas im relativley new to the club... and i have one question that i cannot find an answer to in other threads. so please help me out..

I have been getting quotes from various dealers re: Extractors (Pacemakers specifically)
but im not sure what the REAL performance improvement will be..

so heres my situation..

i have a 2001 TJ Sports Magna Manual, Lowered and K&N Panel Filter making about 170kw at the flywheel, other than that its fairly stock.... the claim from "Pacemakers" are that they will improve performance from 10-25%.
so i would it not be acceptable to think i was going to get at least a 17kw rise in power at the flywheel.. would i not be correct in thinking this? (going from the claims)

but i have read conflicting threads saying that extractors will REALLY only give you a 2-3kw rise in power UNLESS you have a fairly highly modified engine.

What power can i expect to gain from installing Pacemaker Extractors on my car, keeping in mind the sports have a reasonably good flowing exhaust from stock...

Please tell me your thoughts, it would be highly appreciated.

Beef

Your getting 170kw with just a K&N panel filter? Did you have a dyno sheet to prove that?

And 2-3kw is a good guess as to what you should expect out of a set of extractors.

Get your monay back when their BS claim isn't forfilled.

In my experience, from just extractors alone you won't see too much difference. Couple the extractors with a full 2.5" exhaust system and high flow cat (cat is a personal choice thing) and you will see that 17kW.

you would get more of a gain with manual as well???

remember "claim" does not have the same meaning as "guaranteed". Personally, I havn't heard of any Magna that has a proven record of which just the pacemakers alone make an extra 10kw or more at peak power.

Mind you, the "10-25%" improved performance can mean anything, possibly 10% increase torque output through a certain range on the torque band.

Mind you, the "10-25%" improved performance can mean anything, possibly 10% increase power output through a certain range on the torque band.

I was thinking that what that meant was that it improved the extractors scavenging ability by 10% - 25% over stock headers? Not neccesarily as a power increase?

Disciple: Is that on magna's specifically, or on other car models?

Don't think in power...after all whats the use of a mod that gives 100% increase in peak power for a short duration of 50RPM.

Ideal mods give power/torque across the entire rev range.

My lower end increased a slight bit, however mid range power has increased and is especially noticable around 3500-4000RPM. The peak power figure I wouldn't say has increased much.

Peak power figures aren't everything. I can feel the difference in my ass and that's what matters.

I was thinking that what that meant was that it improved the extractors scavenging ability by 10% - 25% over stock headers? Not neccesarily as a power increase?


Exactly. Hopefully the scavenging ability does help out a power increase somewhere along the curve, but it's not neccessary at the peak of the curve.

I mean, i won't deter anybody from getting a set of aftermarket extractors. But don't expect a substantial increase in peak power. We need to take account that the improved performance could also mean a much nicer power curve however. It seems these days everybody talks about "peak power", but the bigger picture is ignored.

Disciple: Is that on magna's specifically, or on other car models?

On my current Ralliart and previously I had a second gen 2.6 4cyl. More noticeable on the 4cyl, but like Anon said, it's more like an increase from 3k-3.5 onwards. A more usable power band would be the correct summation I guess and not just "increased power"

Cheerz Boyz,

Well im not gonna get the extractors now, because i simply just cant justify spending around $650 for a ***kin pathetic 2-3 kw gain..... anyone else agree with me?

thats just not gonna happen, i have better things to spend my money on....

anyone agree that this is a total waste of money??

Cheerz Boyz,

Well im not gonna get the extractors now, because i simply just cant justify spending around $650 for a ***kin pathetic 2-3 kw gain..... anyone else agree with me?

thats just not gonna happen, i have better things to spend my money on....

anyone agree that this is a total waste of money??

I agree. I know too many people who have forked out $$ for extractors, and then complain that they can't tell the difference. This includes Commodores owners too.

before i put them on did 14.8sec 1/4mile after 14.6sec both runs had a kn panel my only other mod. so yea make up ya own mind....i reckon they were def worth it.

Cheerz Boyz,
Well im not gonna get the extractors now, because i simply just cant justify spending around $650 for a ***kin pathetic 2-3 kw gain..... anyone else agree with me?thats just not gonna happen, i have better things to spend my money on.... anyone agree that this is a total waste of money??

I was going to say some thing here but thought better of it because of the couple of hardons that would stuff this thread so I sent you a PM !

Nic
WA

Cheerz Boyz,

Well im not gonna get the extractors now, because i simply just cant justify spending around $650 for a ***kin pathetic 2-3 kw gain..... anyone else agree with me?

thats just not gonna happen, i have better things to spend my money on....

anyone agree that this is a total waste of money??

Make sure you understand the concept of peak power and what it actually is....

I'd quite happily part with a sum of money that gives me zero increase in peak power but improves torque across the rev range

you gotta realise your engine will breathe better as well dude

Your getting 170kw with just a K&N panel filter? Did you have a dyno sheet to prove that?
Well, I had a chart that showed a difference of 10HP between the filter and K&N. Can't find it though. The only other difference was that the aircon was running for the paper filter run but that wouldn't make a difference.

Totally agree that extractors by themselves will only produce around a 3 kw gain.

It is one of those things on modern cars that it takes numerous small items, with some computer tweaking to really get a whole package working and get some credible gains.

Nowdays extractors are more one of those "Basics" that you have in order to get further gains later with some more hard core upgades like cams, intake manifolds etc.

I consider that there is only really two designs on teh market that are worthwhile on the magna - the Pacemaker and the RPW designs. These are both a mandrel bent tuned length 3-1 design, the difference being the pacemakers run 1 1/2" primaries, the RPW 1 5/8" primaries for the more hard core modified vehicles needing greater flow.

If there not tuned length, 3-1 design, sorry but they are just not right. Why have a nice V6 with balanced everything, and then have headers which are scavenging at different rates from every cylinder with some press bent systems worse than stock.

Anyway - just keep in mind that its not something just by itself, but part of an overall range of products. Don't expect miracles, but they will smooth out torque and some nice top end power. Then with tuning, they can breath better and do more for hte car. This is based on experience of modifying of magnas for the last 7 years.

It may only make a few kw here and there, but get the whole thing done, and you will notice it. You will also notice (mainly with the extractors) is the decent torque that you pick up down low, espescially with the RPW race design Headers

Cheerz Boyz,

Well im not gonna get the extractors now, because i simply just cant justify spending around $650 for a ***kin pathetic 2-3 kw gain..... anyone else agree with me?

thats just not gonna happen, i have better things to spend my money on....

anyone agree that this is a total waste of money??

sounds like a K&n panel filter for around $100 and 7kw is the go.....extractors....while they arent a huge increase you still feel the push back into your seat when the revs get up. like with any mods tho, you have to look inside the engine to have real gains$$$$$$$

extractors are definitely worth it, even though its just a 2-3 kw gain alone. (estimate). Every little bit counts. Together with other mods ie. full 2.5" exhaust + hi-flow cat the overall gain is much more substancial. Definitely improve torque and give your exhaust a nicer deeper note. :cool:

They also give a very nice exhaust note to cars with a cat back exhaust, they make them scream something chronic.