No AWD for the Ralliart 380 :cry:

Was talking to a friend who works in Mitsi's engineering and design department, and when I asked how long til the Ralliart version is released, he said it is being developed, and when I mentioned AWD goodness he said it is a no go.

Apparently the floorpan won't support an AWD system, and to add one would mean redesigning the floorpan and re-casting them which is far to expensive to do just for one spec of a car.

But he WAS saying that there were likely to be SIGNIFICANT difference in power and handling.

On a side note, he was showing off his new 5sp Manual 380 VRX. Let me drive it. I want one :drool:

Yey more torque steer...:doubt:

That's what happens when you take shortcuts, stuffs you up later on down the track. Seriously, who's going to buy a high performance FWD? AWD is the way to go :D.

at least convert it to rwd

people think so much about torque steer, i dont have a problem with my car, and its ment to be bad.

it think it could still be a good car FWD or AWD, (would be cool if it could be AWD, but if it can't oh well)

at least convert it to rwd

That would cost more than an AWD conversion. They still have to re-cast a new floorpan but not only that, they have to re-engineer the whole engine bay (engine mounts, intake/exhaust manifolds, anchileries..etc), find a suitable gearbox and the list goes on. :cry:

Is just to show that, they didnt designed it properly and allow for this to happen. Sorry guys as much as I like 380 to be the car of the future but it all seems so gleam lately. I really hope the next version of this car is being reconstructed with more effort.

Yey more torque steer...:doubt:


good suspension tune CAN make a high powered FWD car driveable without excessive torque steer, just take super tourers which where able to easily outhandle the V8 supercars of the day despite the majority being FWD, however its defenitly not a preferable setup

That would cost more than an AWD conversion. They still have to re-cast a new floorpan but not only that, they have to re-engineer the whole engine bay (engine mounts, intake/exhaust manifolds, anchileries..etc), find a suitable gearbox and the list goes on. :cry:

It would be better to keep the 4wd magna froorpan and put the 380 body on it.Would you not agree???

It would be better to keep the 4wd magna froorpan and put the 380 body on it.Would you not agree???


Would be the wrong fit. Different size etc.

at least convert it to rwd

To be honest, this is the sort of backwards thinking that has the very outdated VZ Commodore sales more than doubling the month-to month slaes of the 380. The idea that the only proper way to build a car is RWD when honestly, front wheel drive is inherently more stable and safer. A lot of hoon deaths you see with some young kid on their P's spinning off and hitting a tree or pole on the side of the road is from them in a rear wheel drive Commodore, the back end swings out and then they instinctivelty take their foot off the throttle, which is the WORST thing you can do with over-steer, however is the correct way to do things in a FWD car. Let off the accelerator and the car will slow down around the corner in a FWD.

Anyways, to get back on topic... who do you know who works up in R&D? That's where my old man works. He confirmed to me a while ago that an AWD 380 is out of the question, for exact same reason. 380 floor pan doesn't allow enough room for all the space a AWD drive train takes up. ALso been told many things about a Ralliart 380... but I was told to keep quiet about everything he tells me :cry:

My guess is that the car is smaller and there is no room for the conversion.

To be honest, this is the sort of backwards thinking that has the very outdated VZ Commodore sales more than doubling the month-to month slaes of the 380. The idea that the only proper way to build a car is RWD when honestly, front wheel drive is inherently more stable and safer. A lot of hoon deaths you see with some young kid on their P's spinning off and hitting a tree or pole on the side of the road is from them in a rear wheel drive Commodore, the back end swings out and then they instinctivelty take their foot off the throttle, which is the WORST thing you can do with over-steer, however is the correct way to do things in a FWD car. Let off the accelerator and the car will slow down around the corner in a FWD.

Anyways, to get back on topic... who do you know who works up in R&D? That's where my old man works. He confirmed to me a while ago that an AWD 380 is out of the question, for exact same reason. 380 floor pan doesn't allow enough room for all the space a AWD drive train takes up. ALso been told many things about a Ralliart 380... but I was told to keep quiet about everything he tells me :cry:

Yeah, I was told that he couldn't answer any specific questions about the Ralliart, just that it has significant differences in power and no chance of AWD.
Was told to stop asking qustions too :P

What's the problem with FWD? I don't have any issues with mine. If the Ralliart 380 has a good suspension setup it will be able to handle some decent power regardless of RWD, FWD or AWD.

Apparently the floorpan won't support an AWD system, and to add one would mean redesigning the floorpan and re-casting them which is far to expensive to do just for one spec of a car.

Then what the fruck is the mitsi endeavor? AWD on galant platform.

Then what the fruck is the mitsi endeavor? AWD on galant platform.

Yeah, but they'd have to re-tool the adelaide plant or ship it in. Pretty expensive for one spec of car.

I spoke to an MMAL R&D guy at the Melbourne Motor Show this year. I've known him for a while so I believed what he had to say.

He said currently it's not financially feasible for an AWD system at present (how's that for an understatement!) - current 380 must deliver on their investment and be at least a reasonable success. However, he went on, it was not beyond the realms of realistic possibility that we couldn't see it further down the track. If not in 380, then the next gen post 2011 should manufacturing continue.

He didn't confirm 100% that there was no plan whatsoever for AWD, though we shouldn't expect such a significant drivetrain enhancement any time soon.

With the current 5 speed tippy only capable of handling up to 220/230kW or thereabouts, there is a plan to introduce a 6-speed tippy by 2008 - and he wouldn't unequivocally confirm nor deny the possibilty of a turbo or supercharger... interesting.

One thing I do no is that there are people at Tonsley Park who, amongst many other things, are doing what they can to get an AWD system hapenning. Whether or not we see it in 380 remains to be seen.

For me personally FWD is fine, and after driving a few 380's all I can say is REAR WHEEL WHAT???lol

Just following up, when I asked him about the inclusion of ESP or additional airbags, he said he couldn't comment at the time. From that I can assume we'll be seeing these in the not-too-distant future.:)

RWD vs FWD ... meh, but I definitely prefer AWD.
If the Ralliart 380 gets released with FWD, I wouldn't be surprised. Disappointed, but far from surprised.

So MMAL spends all this money on developing a AWD system for the old magna. But doesn't want spend it on the 380. The AWD magna was excellent car and awesome well balance drivetrain.
It just didn't sell because the same reason as rest of the Magna's at that time.

A AWD drive system could be developed in conjuction Mitsubishi US. The Ralliart Eclipse has AWD under it from EVO 8. Eclipse is based on the PS41 platform. So it is possible to put AWD under the 380.

Until Mitsubishi starts thinking GLOBAL it will always suffer as a Motor company. Look at Mitsubishi most sucessfully cars are built not just for one market (Lancer Pajaro).

Mitsubishi start building cars for the whole world not just regions. Take a leap out of Toyota's book - look at the new Aurion built for Australia but based on the golbal Camry.

A AWD 380 could help sell the car in Europe etc.

New EVO X for me:D

Im glad to be hearing some reasonable assumptions from some legitimate sources in this thread. :D Not just from someone who wont back up their story with any form of source...lol

When I said that there was no AWD version of the 380 I was vehemently ridiculed by some members of this forum.

So please tell me who is the idiot?

FF

When I said that there was no AWD version of the 380 I was vehemently ridiculed by some members of this forum.

So please tell me who is the idiot?

FF
You make these too easy. Answer: You.

When I said that there was no AWD version of the 380 I was vehemently ridiculed by some members of this forum.

So please tell me who is the idiot?

FF
Hows the fishing?

I don't even think MMAL knows where the 380 will end up. Im sure when the TE was released in 1996, they had not confirmed an awd program, I doubt it was even on the horizon at that time.

Its been in the public domain for quite a while that the ralliart won't be awd

http://www.redbook.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/BACE736C086D5FB5CA25706700181342?OpenDocument



Speaking at last week’s launch of the MY2006 Lancer 2.4 and Evo IX sedans, Mitsubishi Australia’s executive vice-president of sales and marketing, Masaharu Iwata, was blunt about the importance of 380’s success......he was less forthcoming about the possibility of a Ralliart-badged 380 sedan, but was openly excited by the prospect and did not rule out the possibility of all-wheel drive returning to Mitsubishi’s large-car arsenal.

"The 380 will be at the peak of its ability – any more power and we’d have to go to AWD," he said. "AWD is not in the plan (for 380), but of course Mitsubishi has the technology... and we have turbo technology too.

You make these too easy. Answer: You.

Why? Because what I have said has been proven correct? You need to take a good hard look at yourself junior.

FF

Why? Because what I have said has been proven correct? You need to take a good hard look at yourself junior.

FF
Haha, no. Because you are a troll and nothing you say can be taken seriously, and I won't take you seriously on these forums, juniour.

On topic: There are FWD hatch's in Europe running 300+ BHP. They put their power to the ground through good suspension setups etc. So I think even if the Ralliart 380 isn't AWD, it'll still be a great handling car with some stick.

I'm talking high high performance here, not some 180kw upgrade. The REAL high performance chasers who will be looking into forced induction etc. are limited by the FWD, with AWD they could run alot more boost. Sure you could keep upgrading suspension, but there's only so much you can upgrade and the cost involved would be tremendous as everything has to be custom made.
This is why holden and ford are popular in the performance side of things, there's so many off the shelf parts available.

Then what the fruck is the mitsi endeavor? AWD on galant platform.

i THINK you mught find that its built on Lancer bits....

well i'm talking from a performence point of view about the rwd/awd, this setup can handle a floor plant better then a fwd,

but for most of the buyers, fwd shouldn't bother them,

AND I'M SICK OF PEOPLE DITCHING VOICES FROM P PLATER'S, JUST CAUSE A HANDFUL OF IDOTS WRAPPED THEMSELVES AROUND A POLE AND THE TELEGRAPH MAKES IT EVEN BIGGER ISSUE AND GIVES EVERY P PLATER A BAD NAME:doubt:

Then what the fruck is the mitsi endeavor? AWD on galant platform.

i THINK you mught find that its built on Lancer bits....
I think it's a little too big too have lancer components:

http://www.mitsubishicars.com/images/2006/end/photos/large_1_ex.jpg
http://www.mitsubishicars.com/images/2006/end/photos/large_2_in.jpg MFD and radio look a little familiar though.

Did a bit more reading on the topic

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/030120-3.htm


First Mitsubishi Endeavor SUV rolls off assembly line in Illinois

2004 Mitsubishi Endeavour
Click image to enlarge
Normal, Illinois - Local officials and NASA Endeavour astronaut Colonel Mark Lee joined Mitsubishi Motors North America (MMNA) executives as the first Mitsubishi Endeavor, a crossover S.U.V., rolled off the line at the company's manufacturing facility in Normal, Illinois.

The Endeavor is the sixth model produced on a single assembly line at the facility, joining three other Mitsubishi products and two built for alliance partner DaimlerChrysler. No other auto plant in the country produces more models on a single line.

The Endeavor platform will serve as the underpinnings for future Project America vehicles, including the next generation Galant mid-sized sedan, Eclipse sport coupe and Eclipse Spyder convertible.

MMNA Manufacturing Division President and Chief Operating Officer Rich Gilligan presented the first Endeavor to USAF Col. Lee (Ret.), a former NASA astronaut and payload commander on the first Endeavour STS-47 space shuttle mission in 1992, and Space Center Chief Executive Officer Larry Capps.

"Our first Endeavour shuttle mission was a collaborative effort between the United States and Japan," Lee said. "It's exciting to see that spirit continue as Mitsubishi Motors kicks off its Project America initiative with an Endeavor launch of its own."

Lee and Capps will take the donated vehicle to Huntsville, Ala., where Space Camp staff will use it as the official vehicle for their travel to schools and other venues throughout the country.

Which suggests then logically, if the Endeavour and the Galant use the same underpinnings, then in theory the US galant should be able to accept awd. Then using the logic that the 380 is based on the Galant, then there shouldnt be that much re-arranging of the chassis to accept an awd drivetrain, probably more to do with adjusting the exhaust and fuel tank configeration.

Why? Because what I have said has been proven correct? You need to take a good hard look at yourself junior.

FF
Is this the only thing that you have been correct on? As was said earlier future models are blinks in designers eyes nearly all of the time. Who knows af an AWD 380 is in the pipeline? If it is'nt as you claim how about giving everyone on this forum a good valid reason and a source on why this is the case... When ever i post info about an up and coming Falcon i know that it is as close to 100% as possible. And how do i know this info? I have a good mate that works within Ford and works personally on new models... There i said it, now, how about you divulge where you get your info from? You dont have to name names. Just "enlighten" us a little.:D

On topic: There are FWD hatch's in Europe running 300+ BHP. They put their power to the ground through good suspension setups etc. So I think even if the Ralliart 380 isn't AWD, it'll still be a great handling car with some stick.
Agreed! The 380 is an excellent handling car as standard so what could it be like with a little R&D and an LSD between the front wheels?:P

So MMAL spends all this money on developing a AWD system for the old magna. But doesn't want spend it on the 380.
What do you expect?

TE-TL was purely an Australia car. The 380 is spoon fed from the US.

The only way that the 380 will become AWD compatable is if the top dogs in Mitsubishi decide to use the 380 for their world-wide sales of right hand drive galants. ie Europe and Japan. Unless this happens MMAL will not get the funding to design the new floor plan and change the assembly line. At the moment it doesn't look like this may happen as I read in MOTOR that Mitsu are thinking of making their RHD galants in America! I mean WTF?:nuts: If it was decided to export the 380 though, AWD would definately be on the cards. And you will NEVER see an AWD ralliart unless it is on a factory model, that's just obvoious to me.:nuts:

TE-TL was purely an Australia car.
Apart from being derived completely from the Japanese Diamante model :badgrin:

US Galant has the capability to go awd - the Endeavour shows that, so who knows what the 380 could do in the future.

Apart from being derived completely from the Japanese Diamante model :badgrin:

Thats right, the 380 is probablly more Australian then the first 3rg gen Magnas were. lol

In the future, on further developed models (if they survive that long) then MAYBE they'll consider AWD. It all depends on the almighty $$$ and how much of it MMAL get out of the whole 380 venture I would say. But that's like predicting the stock market accurately for the next 5 years. No-one short of MMAL management and design teams can know what may or may not be planned for future models, and cos of tight competition in the industry, they aren't likely to just TELL you what they're thinking.

All I was told is that it is a definite no-go on the current one with the Ralliart Development. But there were a LOT of hints dropped about power and performance improvements (didn't mention those cos no specifics were told and I'm not planning on raising hopes on speculation).

Apart from being derived completely from the Japanese Diamante model :badgrin:
Good one. Of course that's where it comes from but our cars were built here and had already undergone further engineering than what they were based on.


Thats right, the 380 is probablly more Australian then the first 3rg gen Magnas were. lol
Maybe on the outside but not on the inside.

At the moment it doesn't look like this may happen as I read in MOTOR that Mitsu are thinking of making their RHD galants in America! I mean WTF?:nuts: If it was decided to export the 380 though, AWD would definately be on the cards.

I wouldn't believe a shred of the garbage Motor put in their magazine. Production of RHD Galants in the US is as much CONFIRMED as is the existence of extra-terrestrial life.

Whilst this is merely my own prediction, you watch by 2008 380 will be exported to markets OTHER than rebadged Protons in Malaysia. The export potential for 380 is simply too great an opportunity for MMAL and MMC to pass on. After all, isn't 380 the "best of our (MMC's) global vehicles???"

Still, with all Mitsu's problems stemming from Japan HQ and the US arm, whose to say they won't continue to make dodgy business decisions...:cry:

Of course that's where it comes from but our cars were built here and had already undergone further engineering than what they were based on.Like the 380?:D :P :redface:

Like the 380?:D :P :redface:
Wow, the shell changed.

TH+ did more than that.

Please Mitsubishi motors start make right decsion and think gobal cars.

That the only way Mitdsubishi Motors will survive in the Motor Industry.

Develop the 380/Galant (PS41) platform for the world not just Australia and a America.

AWD will sell in Europe.

Why? Because what I have said has been proven correct? You need to take a good hard look at yourself junior.

FF

Do you REALLY have to come on here and act like this?

Get over it or just get off the forum...

I wouldn't believe a shred of the garbage Motor put in their magazine. Production of RHD Galants in the US is as much CONFIRMED as is the existence of extra-terrestrial life.

Whilst this is merely my own prediction, you watch by 2008 380 will be exported to markets OTHER than rebadged Protons in Malaysia. The export potential for 380 is simply too great an opportunity for MMAL and MMC to pass on. After all, isn't 380 the "best of our (MMC's) global vehicles???"

Still, with all Mitsu's problems stemming from Japan HQ and the US arm, whose to say they won't continue to make dodgy business decisions...:cry:
I agree with you but like I said, it doesn't look like it's happening at the moment. I really really hope that Mitsu does come round to rational thinking and starts operating more globally. Especially cos it means that there would be more jobs for me when I finish my automotive degree:D

Do you REALLY have to come on here and act like this?

Get over it or just get off the forum...
You hit the nail on the head KB!:bowrofl:

Wow, the shell changed.

TH+ did more than that.

Yeah but the TH was 3rd iteration onto the 3rd gens, give the 380 time. It's exactly the same situation.

With the 3rd Gens the interior got watered down, we got cheaper engines and so on. All to make the cars cheaper so they can be sold in the lower end of the large car segment. There was no massive local engineering. Sure as the model progressed more and more local input was added.

But it is no different to the current situation with the 380. New front end for local model. Re-engineered engine and suspension (same as what they did with Magna). So I don't see it being any different to what happened with the TE (except TE exterior was almost identical to Diamante).

Both the TE Magna and current DB(?) 380 where just slighttlly modifed models form other markets used as a base for a local model. Given time the 380 should undergo similar changes as the Magna did throughout it's lifespan.

Yeah but the TH was 3rd iteration onto the 3rd gens, give the 380 time. It's exactly the same situation.
Yes but that's assuming they make money :bowrofl:

For the moment they are spoon fed :(

Yes but that's assuming they make money :bowrofl:

For the moment they are spoon fed :(

Ahh I see what your saying now:D . It's no one elses fault but Mitsubishi's them self for letting thier financial position decline so much (I'm talking of Mitsubishi globally).

They had so much potential:cry:

Ahh I see what your saying now:D . It's no one elses fault but Mitsubishi's them self for letting thier financial position decline so much (I'm talking of Mitsubishi globally).

They had so much potential:cry:
They actually just made a third quarter profit.

They actually just made a third quarter profit.

And if Mitsubishi continue to make profit (I'm sure they will and also increase their profits as well, heck how many new models are coming out this year and next year?) they will probably spend some money on MMAL as they know they could become profitable in AUS with some styling, performance and optional equipment (or even added standard equipment for that matter!). So yeah, even if MMAL are running at a loss if the head company MMC is makin a profit the chances on MMAL staying open are higher. Just give it a few months and if more Mitsubishi's international debt is cleared and it is reported positively in the media people will gain confidence back in the brand and you won't here as much (if any) speculation of MMAL closing.

lets just hope this means the magna lives on, to only be AWD

lets just hope this means the magna lives on, to only be AWD

The Magna died last year. The 380 is all that remains.

Yeah... I actually wish that they produced a competitive luxury car. Like perhaps kept a newer version of the Verada or something. Maybe in the future we will get the Jap version of the Diamante and they could release it with Verada badging or something if MMC (Japan) ever bring out a new one.

Speaking of the name Magna the 380 just doesn't suit the Magna nameplate, the Galant name plate, yes. But still the name 380 sounds better then Galant.

Once again looking at other manufacturers' the public can't just go by a vehicles name. I know alot of people who think the name commodore is stupid, but thats their perception. So if everyone went by a cars name then Holden could be in a situation worse them MMAL were with the Magna. Maybe one day Holden will dump the Commodore name and call them all Calais or Vectras?

Ahh I see what your saying now:D . It's no one elses fault but Mitsubishi's them self for letting thier financial position decline so much (I'm talking of Mitsubishi globally).

They had so much potential:cry:
Pretty much. They had heaps of potential. COTY at one point. The Ralliart should have been concieved and recieved with the TF or TH as it would have cleaned up at that point in time. Etc... we've heard it all before.

Anyway, I hope it get's to the point where it's our car and not just a modified US right hook car.

Pretty much. They had heaps of potential. COTY at one point. The Ralliart should have been concieved and recieved with the TF or TH as it would have cleaned up at that point in time. Etc... we've heard it all before.

Anyway, I hope it get's to the point where it's our car and not just a modified US right hook car.

I agree. Yeah a Ralliart was released back in '98 when Magna's were in public demand then they would of sold by the truckloads. At the same time Mitsubishi would have established itself as more of a Australian brand you has interest in performance vehicles.

I agree, Mitsubishi should have changed some other things for the Galant to become the 380. They should have researched further into what Americans had commented negatively on, which was mainly the front end but some people also commented on the centre column which has the gearshifter attached to it, the rear end needing different globes and perhaps a different design and the inclusion of further saftey features. If MMAL had corrected the problems the Yanks found then perhaps the car would've sold more as it would've been something that people desire; and desire is what fuels demand. Though, even though the yanks are well different people from us I don't see why it wouldn't of worked if they followed all suggestions from the US; we would have ended up with a car that was better equipped and possibly more stylised. The front end on our car is fine, the back end is rather bland in non VRX/GT form and even the VRX/GT could do with some slight modification.

So all in all Mitsubishi still do have a car that has alot of potential and only time and money will tell if they can make it unique for the Australian market to give consumers a car they want to buy.

I agree. Yeah a Ralliart was released back in '98 when Magna's were in public demand then they would of sold by the truckloads. At the same time Mitsubishi would have established itself as more of a Australian brand you has interest in performance vehicles.

I think part of the problem was that the Ralliart's bodykit was a little too boyracer - snow plow front, the red barron's bi-plane screwed on the rear. When you consider the market that would have actually bought the car new (middle managers, 40+ yr olds - you know - the Calais/SS/XR8/Fairmont market), most considered the ralliart to be a show pony, the car was good for the amount of money that MMAL spent in developing it, but they would have loved to have made a turbo version (imagine a turbo awd!) just as much as you or I would.

The truth is that sort of aggressive bodykit really should go on a car thats a lot faster - save it for the thoroughbreds, the Lotus Elises, Evos (well now days) etc.

Fk. Imagine a Ralliart with 240kw in AWD version. And yeah, that rear spoiler would have blended in more if they changed the design of the boot slightly. I mean heck it is pretty big.

Though, they should possibly consider making a standard Ralliart and a full out luxury Ralliart (with GPS, subwoofer, ESP, 6 airbags, etc.) and if they can't get an AWD well tone it to like 208kw for the Ralliart and perhaps 212kw for the Ralliart LX (to cater for extra weight of goods). If not they should just stick with a full kit Ralliart only and price it at $47,990 or so and advertise it well. Not only will it be a hot model but it will give the 380 some guts.

The only way Mitsubishi will get really really loyal fans is if the V8 supercars allowed a supercharged 6's in the race or perhaps Mitsubishi use a the 4.7litre from the US raider to compete. Just thinking it would initially be hard to attract fans, but, once they have they would start to earn alot of well deserved respect. Unfortunately I don't see it happening though :rant:

The only way Mitsubishi will get really really loyal fans is if the V8 supercars allowed a supercharged 6's in the race or perhaps Mitsubishi use a the 4.7litre from the US raider to compete. Just thinking it would initially be hard to attract fans, but, once they have they would start to earn alot of well deserved respect. Unfortunately I don't see it happening though :rant:

Absolutley. If it weren't for the V8 Supercars I don't believe Holden and Ford would be the perennial Aussie car-industry powerhouses they are today. A nail was driven into the coffin when last year Mitsubishi conceded, before the 380 release, that they couldn't compete directly with Falcon and Commondork.

Absolutley. If it weren't for the V8 Supercars I don't believe Holden and Ford would be the perennial Aussie car-industry powerhouses they are today. A nail was driven into the coffin when last year Mitsubishi conceded, before the 380 release, that they couldn't compete directly with Falcon and Commondork.

Well maybe now that Mitsubishi's boss is an ex-holden man he may perhaps consider adding the 4.7l V8 in the 380 for the V8 supercars only or something (they could call it a 470GT)? Even though it possibly isn't the best time to offer a V8 for sale to the public, they could as it is still a relatively fuel efficient V8 compared to Holdens and Fords. If Mitsubishi could compete and win this event not only would it create Australian fans but it would also increase sales and actually give Mitsubishi credibility, something of which the brand lacks.

I mean why it's all a dream at the moment I wish they would consider it. I mean Mitsubishi rarely have a decent V8 available to them, and now that they do they may as well use it to create attention to the vehicle and promote it. I mean I know that the whole car would have to be changed (mechanically wise - gearbox, suspension, etc.) for it to race but how much would it cost to honestly build say 8 vehicles to use in the V8 supercars with an engine that they don't really have to research in as its already available to them.

If Mitsubishi could compete and win this event not only would it create Australian fans but it would also increase sales and actually give Mitsubishi credibility, something of which the brand lacks.

It would be a bit like Toyota not wining f1 unfortunately.

Anyway, AVESCO stipulates that the engine in the supercars has to be a 5.0L pushrod.

Where Mitsubishi could get a v8 from is irrelevant, the supercars all have their own unique engines that your going to struggle to find in an engine parts catalog from each brand.

But to race in the V8 supercars, the manufacturer must have a production model with a V8 in it.

Does the production model have to be over 5.0litres in engine capacity as well? Because if it does that is plain stupid. Engine output power does not solely depend on the engine capacity. So I wish they would make it so that any car compete if it has around 500kw (and no more then 520kw). This would be better, allow more entrants into the competition and help people realise that some V6 engines are just as powerful as some V8's (geeeez a V6 Turbo is close enough).

Does the production model have to be over 5.0litres in engine capacity as well? Because if it does that is plain stupid. Engine output power does not solely depend on the engine capacity. So I wish they would make it so that any car compete if it has around 500kw (and no more then 520kw). This would be better, allow more entrants into the competition and help people realise that some V6 engines are just as powerful as some V8's (geeeez a V6 Turbo is close enough).
Didn't they do this ages ago with turbo skylines?

Didn't they do this ages ago with turbo skylines?

skylines got banned for being too fast

It would be a bit like Toyota not wining f1 unfortunately.

Anyway, AVESCO stipulates that the engine in the supercars has to be a 5.0L pushrod.

Where Mitsubishi could get a v8 from is irrelevant, the supercars all have their own unique engines that your going to struggle to find in an engine parts catalog from each brand.

Holden used a chevy motors in their supercars!

skylines got banned for being too fast
Yeh thats what i heard. The skylines were way too quick for the V8's (back when there was no restrictions i think?).

Yeah... I actually wish that they produced a competitive luxury car. Like perhaps kept a newer version of the Verada or something. Maybe in the future we will get the Jap version of the Diamante and they could release it with Verada badging or something if MMC (Japan) ever bring out a new one.

Also heard from the old man that MMAL were very far into the design of a long wheel base 380 to compete directly against Statesman etc.

In regards to the AWD 380, someone mentioned before how both the 380 and the Endevour are based on PS41 platform and the Endevour is AWD... true, but the Endevour is a SUV with a very tall ride height... the car needs to be raised about 60mm to fit in the AWD system from there. I don't think anyone would buy it looking like that. Dad did say that they did look at a different AWD system (not sure from where or if it was a completely new one, so don't ask) and it was possible, which was something he had not told me before. Didn't say why it was not used, I would presume for same reasons they did not do the long wheel base - financial position. But just letting you know, as far as MMAL are concerned, AWD is a technical possibility.

Also heard from the old man that MMAL were very far into the design of a long wheel base 380 to compete directly against Statesman etc.

In regards to the AWD 380, someone mentioned before how both the 380 and the Endevour are based on PS41 platform and the Endevour is AWD... true, but the Endevour is a SUV with a very tall ride height... the car needs to be raised about 60mm to fit in the AWD system from there. I don't think anyone would buy it looking like that. Dad did say that they did look at a different AWD system (not sure from where or if it was a completely new one, so don't ask) and it was possible, which was something he had not told me before. Didn't say why it was not used, I would presume for same reasons they did not do the long wheel base - financial position. But just letting you know, as far as MMAL are concerned, AWD is a technical possibility.

Well at least there is hope:P

It would be a bit like Toyota not wining f1 unfortunately.

Anyway, AVESCO stipulates that the engine in the supercars has to be a 5.0L pushrod.

Where Mitsubishi could get a v8 from is irrelevant, the supercars all have their own unique engines that your going to struggle to find in an engine parts catalog from each brand.
Yeah, Mitsu's V8 is too hightech for our domestic comp. To bad really. Mind you, considering the amount of development the Ford / Holden engines have had, it would take them a while to get up to speed.

Speaking of that longwheel base model I also heard that they had significantly researched a great amount at the time the project was axed by MMC. I also heard that prototypes had been built.

I'd just like to see it as perhaps some elements of this vehicle could be adapted into the 380. And because I don't think Japan is building a new Diamante the long wheelbase luxury model (researched/produced here) could have been exported there and possibly Europe. Such a pity they had to cut it when they were so far into it.

Does anyone have any pictures of what this vehicle may have looked like? Damn Damn Damn! I'm so p^ssed off they axed it as I would like Mitu to have a full on luxury (+ performance) vehicle. Perhaps if MMC continued to make a profit they could consider re-opening this project and perhaps continue it here (and build it here) or in Japan.

They didn't specifically ban Skylines, they banned turbo + awd which effectively removed them. It was necessary though, they completely dominated the class and if measures weren't taken to level the playing field the class would have died out.

They didn't specifically ban Skylines, they banned turbo + awd which effectively removed them. It was necessary though, they completely dominated the class and if measures weren't taken to level the playing field the class would have died out.
They should have forced Holden and Ford to adapt.

They should have forced Holden and Ford to adapt.

I agree. The races wouldn't be so dominated by two particular brands and would allow others to compete in an event they could possibly (or should I say easily) win. If this become the case a Turbo 380 could be used.

By the way has their ever been a FWD with like 400kw (it wouldnt be pratical would it)? Off memory I think it was Audi or Alfa with one with like 240kw stock. Because say if Commodores were 400kw (RWD) and a 380 was 400kw (FWD) the 380 would win because don't FWDs lose less power when it is transferred from the motor to the wheels as the motor is directly above the wheels and doesn't have to be transferred to the rear of the car. I also think that FWDs are also better balanced cars these days and really as bad as those RWD heads who only want a RWD because its a RWD despite the fact they probably never driven a FWD.

Holden used a chevy motors in their supercars!
Callaways from canada in the Holden cars, or they build their own from different components aka Larry Perkins Style

I wouldn't believe a shred of the garbage Motor put in their magazine. Production of RHD Galants in the US is as much CONFIRMED as is the existence of extra-terrestrial life.

while it may not be confirmed as such, MOTOR aint the only mag stating it:

Mitsubishi may boost production of Galant in U.S. for global exports


By James B. Treece
Automotive News / December 07, 2005

TOKYO -- Mitsubishi Motors Corp. could export the next-generation Galant sedan from its Normal, Ill., plant to Europe and Japan.

Production of the next Galant will cease in Japan, making the Illinois factory the global source for the car, according to an article in the daily Nikkan Kogyo newspaper.

The paper said a right-hand drive version for export markets will be added to the factory.

A Mitsubishi spokesman neither confirmed nor denied the report. If true, though, it would be in line with a previously announced change in Mitsubishi's product strategy.

It also would help improve the operation rate at the Normal plant. That factory has been operating on a single shift for more than a year. To boost production, Mitsubishi plans to begin exporting the current Galant from Normal to Russia, the Ukraine and the Middle East from the middle of 2006.

"We haven't decided on the specific plans. We are now conducting an evaluation of our product strategy," said Mitsubishi spokesman Shingo Kimura.

Mitsubishi is in the first year of a three-year restructuring plan that calls for a switch in product planning.

Mitsubishi now makes several models that are specific to the market where they are made and sold. The new plan calls for the company to concentrate on global models that can be sold in multiple markets.

Mitsubishi CEO Osamu Masuko explained the change in a recent interview with Automotive News.

"Up until now, Mitsubishi was making vehicles that were sort of regionally dedicated. They were vehicles that were only meeting the needs of that region. Vehicles produced in the United States were only sold in the United States, and those produced in Australia were only sold in Australia. In terms of profitability and product development, this led to great problems," he said.

Instead, he said, Mitsubishi wants to develop "global strategic cars" that "we could be selling to other parts of the world, but producing in the market with the biggest demand for that vehicle

Mitsubishi may boost production of Galant in U.S. for global exports


By James B. Treece
Automotive News / December 07, 2005

TOKYO -- Mitsubishi Motors Corp. could export the next-generation Galant sedan from its Normal, Ill., plant to Europe and Japan.

Production of the next Galant will cease in Japan, making the Illinois factory the global source for the car, according to an article in the daily Nikkan Kogyo newspaper.

The paper said a right-hand drive version for export markets will be added to the factory.

A Mitsubishi spokesman neither confirmed nor denied the report. If true, though, it would be in line with a previously announced change in Mitsubishi's product strategy.

It also would help improve the operation rate at the Normal plant. That factory has been operating on a single shift for more than a year. To boost production, Mitsubishi plans to begin exporting the current Galant from Normal to Russia, the Ukraine and the Middle East from the middle of 2006.

"We haven't decided on the specific plans. We are now conducting an evaluation of our product strategy," said Mitsubishi spokesman Shingo Kimura.

Mitsubishi is in the first year of a three-year restructuring plan that calls for a switch in product planning.

Mitsubishi now makes several models that are specific to the market where they are made and sold. The new plan calls for the company to concentrate on global models that can be sold in multiple markets.

Mitsubishi CEO Osamu Masuko explained the change in a recent interview with Automotive News.

"Up until now, Mitsubishi was making vehicles that were sort of regionally dedicated. They were vehicles that were only meeting the needs of that region. Vehicles produced in the United States were only sold in the United States, and those produced in Australia were only sold in Australia. In terms of profitability and product development, this led to great problems," he said.

Instead, he said, Mitsubishi wants to develop "global strategic cars" that "we could be selling to other parts of the world, but producing in the market with the biggest demand for that vehicle

That's why if Mitsubishi differentiate the Australian model further (from the Galant) and possibly continue the PS41L long wheelbase model MMALs future could possibly manufacture a luxury model (as they don't have a luxury model produced anywhere anymore). It could just be called the Diamante in the US and could possibly regain the Verada nameplate in Australia and possibly other countries. This would work and if Mitsubishi could produce this along side the 380 it would be good (to have to different MMAL models) if not, they could turn the 380 into a more luxurious vehicle by adding features and styling cues that the Galant lacks. If they could change it enough it may be a vehicle that could be sold alongside the Galant (like the Accord and Accord Euro - same interior, different exterior).

Though, they should still keep the 380 and also produce a product to cover the (international) luxury sector for MMC, based on the PS41L project (in both LHD & RHD versions) which could have the MIVEC 3.8 (or the upcoming MIVEC 3.7) and possibly the option of the HEMI V8 (if they can get hold of it).

They didn't specifically ban Skylines, they banned turbo + awd which effectively removed them. It was necessary though, they completely dominated the class and if measures weren't taken to level the playing field the class would have died out.

its true that they didnt specifically ban skylines... they banned turbos and awd.
they may as well have introduced a rule banning any car with a double S in their name. the result would be the same.

The added benefit of having a LWB platform apart from a luxury model is that MMAL would be able to produce a wagon.:thumbsup:
This may not seem like a big deal to some, but having a wagon would probably boost fleet sales of the 380, as many fleet buyers want both sedans and wagons but they want their lineup to look the same.

The added benefit of having a LWB platform apart from a luxury model is that MMAL would be able to produce a wagon.
This may not seem like a big deal to some, but having a wagon would probably boost fleet sales of the 380, as many fleet buyers want both sedans and wagons but they want their lineup to look the same.

Now that is a very very good point. Alot of businesses do have the TL/TW wagons (in the colour white) now that you can't get a large vehicle wagon (in the Mitsubishi brand) if they wanted all of their fleet to look the same they would be forced to change to Holden or Ford. Though, if they were willing to downsize the 2.4l Lancer wagon would be the way to go. But the thing is that alot of businesses don't want a smaller wagon then what they currently have and if that happens to be a Magna wagon then Mitsubishi have lost a number of fleet buyers from the field.

So yeah, if they could build a wagon (and additional sedan :D ) on the LWB platform not only would it add two new models to their range but spruce up fleet sales who are looking for the wagon in particular. It could also give them a full-on luxury model, something which I would buy (just add the MIVEC 3.8 or the HEMI V8 and you've got a winner and a statesman killer :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin:).

And I'll ask again but, were any concept pics released of the LWB vehicle? Thx

But to race in the V8 supercars, the manufacturer must have a production model with a V8 in it.

no they dont. All the V8 supercar rules state is that they must be a locally manufactured 4 door sedan that meats certain dimensional requirements. Which incidently the 380 meets.

Both ford and holden dont use production engines in their supercars, so why would mitsubishi or toyota have to? simple answer, they dont. Holden and ford for ages used nascar derived engine blocks with a number of modifications to make them suitable for V8 supercar (however a couple of years ago holden upgraded to a specifically designed holden engine called "aurora")

The problem is not whether or not the 380 meets the catagory regulations, because it does and tony cochrane (V8supercar supremo) has actually invited both mitsubishi and toyota to join the series. The problem is whether or not a mitsubishi or toyota would be accepted by the mainstream motorsport fans.

And as far as the nissan being banned. It WASN'T banned, im so sick of hearing that crap. GROUP A was banned NOT NISSAN. It had nothing to do with the nissan being too fast (dont forget a VL commodore beat the nissan skyline to bathurst victory in 1990) and everything to do with the fact that the group a formula was so hidiously expensive that grid numbers where becoming un-acceptably small and interest in the australian touring car championship was very low. A replacement and AFFORDABLE formula had to be found, and after much research they found that the most popular of the proposed new formula's (super tourers was the other choice basically) was a V8, RWD large sedan formula. Motorsport in australia had been based around a ford and holden rivalry since the 50's, so it would have been stupid for the ATCC to move away from that.

Thus bringing an end to the history lesson, in short:

Nissan = not banned
Group A = banned
Nissan = didnt want to play in the new catagory (they could have adapted a V8 RWD sedan, chose not to) and therefore left on their own accord

seriously dont start me up or i'll never stop!

I know odds of it happening are pretty long, but:

Wouldn't it be funny if Mitsi's DID put a V8 version of the 380 into the Supercars and won at Bathurst........

Then all the falcadore fans would have to admit a few things......


On a side note, is there really that much difference in the performance etc of the pseudo-falcons and pseudo-commodores that race in the Supercar series anymore???

I thought that the only similarity that they held with teh road models anymore was the body shape?

hmm interesting. This sounds good as the race definitely needs more competitors.

The thing is that yes, I agree that Mitsubishi will initially have trouble seeking fans but once they start winning (or even beating Holden or Ford) people will start to think "oh sh*t those cars are better then I thought" and as word spreads people will start to respect the Mitsubishi brand and may even start to see it as more of an Australian brand.

And yes, if Mitsubishi did win the event I'm sure that the 380 will have that much credibility that sales would increase and overall sales of other Mitsubishi vehicles (particuarly the Lancer, Pajero) would also lift.

On a side note, is there really that much difference in the performance etc of the pseudo-falcons and pseudo-commodores that race in the Supercar series anymore???

I thought that the only similarity that they held with teh road models anymore was the body shape?

the catagory is heavily regulated to the point where only the body shells are the same as with the road car yes. Under "project blueprint" the holden and ford racecars are designed to be as close as possible in specification so as to ensure an even contest. Same would apply to mitsubishi if it was to join.

And i agree that in time mitsubishi would be able to create a fanbase for their V8 supercar program, however it would take a fair amount of time and it would never rival the fanbase that ford and holden enjoy. That unfortunately is just the way it is

And i agree that in time mitsubishi would be able to create a fanbase for their V8 supercar program, however it would take a fair amount of time and it would never rival the fanbase that ford and holden enjoy.

Mitsubishi could win it five years straight and if they did it would make the brand look alot better then it currently is and some will even regard the brand higher then Holden or Ford (well I already do!). I just wish they would enter it and perhaps with a little support and suggestion from Mitsubishi fans it could all work.

V8 Supercars also work for Ford and Holden because after fans watch them race on Sunday, they can go and buy a v8 falcon or commodore on Monday. Hence, that translates into amongst increased brand credibility and loyalty, SALES.

As such, if Mitsubishi were to enter into V8 supercars they would have to offer a v8 in their 380 lineup for it to be worthwhile long term in my opinion.

Where is the 380 v8 supercar fan going to go when he/she wants to buy a v8? He/she was watching the race on Sunday and decided that they wanted a v8 380 just like the one racing. Off he/she goes to the Mitsubishi showroom the next day only to discover that unlike Holden and Ford, he/she can't have a v8 380 just like Holden and Ford.:cry:

It's great that Mitsubishi and Toyota have been invited to join v8 supercars but:

- Mitsubishi doesn't have anything remotely capable of running a v8 that is sold here without incurring major engineering changes and cost. Costs they can't afford for something that could be a major hit or miss.

- In additon, and some may not like this, v8 supercars could be considered a bit boganish. Perhaps Mitsubishi knows this and doesn't want to associate their cars with that stereotype/image? (No need for a flaming as I'm only raising a point which could be right or wrong)

- Mitsubishi is alread have interests in rallying, the dakar which I love:D , GTP and probably many other race series. I'm sure they have strong rally following, just like Holden and Ford don't have. Maybe this is what Mitsubishi is all about, and not v8's?

- I couldn't see Toyota being interested because they are/did sell more cars here than Holden and Ford. They have credibilty through good quality reliable cars and that works for them. So why would they go to all that trouble?

Billy Mason PI - i can see your point, however the "win on sunday sell on monday" motto doesn't necessarily mean people buy the V8 model. They see the holden win and go out and buy a holden, but although there has been alot of research conducted that suggests that motorsport success does drive sales, there is nothing suggesting that these new sales are only V8 models. Infact that majority of the sales are the V6 model. In short people are buying the brand, not the engine. Its the same as how renault don't have a V8 or V10 sportscar in their lineup, yet they compete in F1 with their V8 and previously V10 motors, however their involvement still brings them sales in their other models (otherwise why would they be there!)

What motorsport success does is it creates a "halo" effect for a car company. Now granted ford and holdens halo effect IS enhanced by also having production V8 models, however the halo effect would defently be there for mitsubishi even if they didnt have a V8 model. It just perhaps wont be to the same extent as ford and holden - bringing me back to my original point that mitsubishi would be able to build a strong fan base for their V8 program, but it won't ever reach the same proportions of ford or holdens

Now that is a very very good point. Alot of businesses do have the TL/TW wagons (in the colour white) now that you can't get a large vehicle wagon (in the Mitsubishi brand) if they wanted all of their fleet to look the same they would be forced to change to Holden or Ford. Though, if they were willing to downsize the 2.4l Lancer wagon would be the way to go. But the thing is that alot of businesses don't want a smaller wagon then what they currently have and if that happens to be a Magna wagon then Mitsubishi have lost a number of fleet buyers from the field.

So yeah, if they could build a wagon (and additional sedan :D ) on the LWB platform not only would it add two new models to their range but spruce up fleet sales who are looking for the wagon in particular. It could also give them a full-on luxury model, something which I would buy (just add the MIVEC 3.8 or the HEMI V8 and you've got a winner and a statesman killer :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin:).

And I'll ask again but, were any concept pics released of the LWB vehicle? Thx

Further investigation: The LWB was planned only for America, where they did actually build one or two. If it had gone ahead, it would never have been sold in Australia. It was cancelled because of A) no funds B) America turned around and said they didn't want it due to no demand. And no, couldn't get any pics of it. Sorry.

As for a wagon, not on the cards at all. A) no funds B) no demand. The wagon sales were steadily declining during the lifespan of the Magna. The market is moving towards SUV's rather than wagons, so I guess Mitsubishi has the opinion they have this market more than covered with the Outlander, Pajero, Challenger, Triton and in America the Endevour and Raider.

Asked about racing aswell. Although, as pointed out, the 380 etc could possibly race in the supercars, Holden and Ford would apparently boycott it. This is because they have been doing these races for the last 50 years or so (sorry if not correct) all the while developing the technology to what it is today. They don't really want other companies walking in and copying this technology simply so they can compete in these races when they had no hand in the development of this technology. This was the reason given to me anyway...

Asked about racing aswell. Although, as pointed out, the 380 etc could possibly race in the supercars, Holden and Ford would apparently boycott it. This is because they have been doing these races for the last 50 years or so (sorry if not correct) all the while developing the technology to what it is today. They don't really want other companies walking in and copying this technology simply so they can compete in these races when they had no hand in the development of this technology. This was the reason given to me anyway...

Would almost call that an empty threat.

Holden and Ford would be nuts to boycott one of their highest profile advertising opportunities.

Further investigation: The LWB was planned only for America, where they did actually build one or two. If it had gone ahead, it would never have been sold in Australia. It was cancelled because of A) no funds B) America turned around and said they didn't want it due to no demand. And no, couldn't get any pics of it. Sorry.

As for a wagon, not on the cards at all. A) no funds B) no demand. The wagon sales were steadily declining during the lifespan of the Magna. The market is moving towards SUV's rather than wagons, so I guess Mitsubishi has the opinion they have this market more than covered with the Outlander, Pajero, Challenger, Triton and in America the Endevour and Raider.

Asked about racing aswell. Although, as pointed out, the 380 etc could possibly race in the supercars, Holden and Ford would apparently boycott it. This is because they have been doing these races for the last 50 years or so (sorry if not correct) all the while developing the technology to what it is today. They don't really want other companies walking in and copying this technology simply so they can compete in these races when they had no hand in the development of this technology. This was the reason given to me anyway...

Thanx mate for looking into that. Such a pity they didn't go through with the LWB model, but, understandable due to Mitsubishi's current financial position. Maybe if MMC continue to make profit we will see a luxury/semi-luxury car either produced here on in Japan.

And about the wagon question thanks for answering that one as well. I thought that would be a way for them to bounce back if they released a wagon because apparently the VE wagon won't be out for a while after the commodores release (if they bring one out). Even still, I remember in the paper for one month of sales the Verada wagon only sold 6 vehicles (TL model) Australia wide; which I thought was what is the point in making one then. Never the less though they do have the lancer wagon which if demand starts to increase on this model perhaps a 3l MIVEC could be offered for customers wanting a V6 in this model (in next gen Lancer that is).

About the clipsal question. Yeah, I thought it would be hard for Mitsu to enter such a rivaled market. Though, they could make it if there financial situation improves and perhaps they could enter the races at the same time as toyota if it ever happens. If Mitsubishi could develop or adopt an engine to use it would be interesting to watch if they could win and somehow advertise and bring across how there engine is different from Holdens and Fords to promote its efficiency or something (product differentiation) which would be hard to do in this monopolist event.

Would almost call that an empty threat.

Holden and Ford would be nuts to boycott one of their highest profile advertising opportunities.

absolutely correct. Ofcourse they dont want more competition, so they will make noises like "well we will leave" but at the end of the day the ATCC has changed formats over 3 times in the last 25 years alone yet holden and ford have hung around the whole time. Including a new manufacturer won't make them leave, despite what they say

As for wagons, its a pitty but i am quite sure there will never be a wagon 380. Which is a shame because they WOULD pick up sales in the fleet market now that ford won't have a wagon in their next model, and holdens next wagon won't be a traditional wagon (rather it will be a half wagon half SUV similar to the dodge magnum which is a big tough looking thing)

They could dump the 380 engine in the Lancer Wagon to give fleet oppurtunites to buy a wagon that may be considered big because of its engine size. Heck, if the engine would fit the Lancer would fly with the 3.8litre block in it. 0-100km in say 6seconds? But, that isn't suited to businesses though, but would be nice!

I think MMAL messed up by now provisining for an AWD or RWD ralliart 380. You look at all the cars it would be competing with and there all RWD or AWD:
TT
WRX
350
Liberty
RX8
Mazda6 SPE
Maxima
list goes on..

It seems they haven't learnt from their mistakes. And they will probably price it in mid - high 50's. Who on earth would choose that over something like a Liberty spec B or WRX sti?? :nuts:

The Maxima is FWD isn't it? Maxima has bloody nice interior.

I would buy the Libert Spec B as it looks alright, but, I hate the centre console (looks like heaps of **** is added to it). The WRX sti? Yuck, the designer of Alfa Romeo designed that and is going to add that ugly nose to all of Subaru's designs. Interior in the Imrpeza is basically the same as before (ie. CRAP). Give me some $35k and I'll go and by the superceded impreza, now that is what the new one should look like!

350Z, good car but but ugly (only the blind would buy it).

RX8 - I've got no complaints for it, HOT car. Mazda 6 MPS is bloody nice just wish they made it in automatic (aswell) though! Mazda 3 MPS comes out in June under $40 k with 180kw (FWD only!).

TT roadster -- very dated car. Has stood the test of time, but, once the new TT is released (next year I think) it will look old. Interior looks shotty. AWD only. Infact, the interior could be updated and exterior doesn't really need much changed, beatiful looking car. Infact at the back it looks alot like the Eclipse.

But so what. the Mazda 3 MPS and Maxima are the only two cars there that are FWD. I wish people perception of FWDs would change as the way they are balanced and drive is alot better then what people think of how they use to be. The stigma of FWD is killing sales from hot-headed males which think that if its not RWD its a POS; which isn't true (cos the 380 is beta then commo or falcon). Even though I don't have a problem with FWD vehicles, if they were gonna have a supercharged ralliart in the line up with 220kw I would want an AWD (and a 6 speed auto and a 6 speed manual option which IS available to them from Japan (auto) and manual (US)).

So yeah for a car to be mid 50's I'd want decent power (around 200kw) coupled to an AWD. Or priced at say high 40's in FWD.

Oops yeah those two are FWD. I think you're dead right in that yes FWD has a place in the performance car market in the 40's. I think if they price it in the 50's then they will struggle.

Oops yeah those two are FWD. I think you're dead right in that yes FWD has a place in the performance car market in the 40's. I think if they price it in the 50's then they will struggle.

Yeah, it should be the price of the 380GT but it won't be. If it was $47,990 I would buy one even if it were FWD. It would be a good car with a bloody good engine too, even with 192kw (if that's what it gets) it should still be able to beat a few commys and falcons. 0-100 time is 6.7 - 6.8 seconds for the Galant Ralliart so you would expect the 380 Ralliart to be on par with this; a this time is slow by no means and would place it ahead of many other aussie v6's.

If the RalliArt 380 is based on the GT with all it's features, plus the addition of a RalliArt bodykit, bigger wheels etc, and of course the 190kW engine, I think you'll see it priced around $48,490 for manual (and there better bloody be one!), $49,990 for auto. 380 GT to go down to $46,990.

Pity we won't see AWD any time soon. Still, if there's a mainstream manufacturer out there who knows how to build big powerful FWDs its those good people at Tonsley Park.:)

PS- I got a silver 380 GT from work on may day off today. Yay!:dancin: ... Off to the twisties!!!:dancin:

It would be better just to buy a base 380 and rebadge it to vrx and then put a sat nav in the dbl din spot?

Yey more torque steer...:doubt:

T....

If you can't handle the t-steer from a Magna yet.. well... .

Nothing like it, I get mild ts from my piddly auto vr-x, and as a long time front driver, had a Camry b4 that, you get the hang of it, and to anticipate it.

Try hammering a rwd Falcon in the wet, or on gravel... all that torque makes for fun. At least an Fwd pulls you thru the corner... if you know how. :)

...
Pity we won't see AWD any time soon. ...:


Peopel forget Mitsu have done it before. And have the proven tech to do it again. Just that MMAL is broke.


It's easy to fall into a false belief that the only decent AWD turbocar on the second-hand market is the Subaru WRX. Certainly, the number of times you hear people ranting over the super Subie is incredible. The reason? Well, the WRX is the proven performance king - isn't it?

Let's take a closer look...

Flicking back though early-to-mid 1990s road tests you'll see sizeable spread of performance numbers - not only for the WRX, but all the AWD turbos. For example, the 148kW Mitsubishi Galant VR4 saw 0 - 100 km/h numbers in 7.2 - 7.6 seconds, the 153kW Toyota Celica was consistent at 8.3 - 8.4 seconds and Subaru's own 147kW Liberty RS placed itself between 6.7 and low 7 seconds.

The next generation of AWD turbos had a similar spread of times. The then newly introduced 141kW Lancer GSR did the 0 - 100 thing in 7.7 - 8.4 seconds, and the 155kW MY94 WRX ranged between 6.9 and 7.4 seconds. Its quarter mile time hovered around 14.9 and 15.4 seconds.

and this....

http://www.arcadegames.net/GalantVR4.htm

God the VR-4 really is the car of 1990. I love it, good performance that even a 5.0litre V8 (of that time) would struggle to beat with a nice front end.

0-100 in around 7.2 is pretty fast too for 1990.

Even though MMAL is broke I can just imagine the potential the 380 really has. With a turbo AWD MIVEC engine that thing would fly. They could give it atleast 1 more kw then the XR6T so I can say "haha my 380 is more powerful". Maybe if I win the lotto I could by a 380GT (or the Ralliart 380, depending on release) on an $100k budget and turn it into a turbo AWD luxury saloon. The posibilities are endless

Peopel forget Mitsu have done it before. And have the proven tech to do it again. Just that MMAL is broke.

Well unfortunately we have to, at times, be realists. We WON'T see AWD make a comeback in the near future, so none of us should expect it (because, as you said, Mitsu are broke:cry: ). But I suppose it shouldn't stop us from dreaming...:pray: And thats what really s**ts me. If MMAL can create a car as good as the 380 (lets be honest, mechanically and dynamically it's simply supreme:)) being fed cash on a drip from MMC, imagine what they could do if even they had just a quarter of the funds Toyota have available to them... Goodbye Falcon, Camry/Aurion and Commondork.lol

Mitsu invest $600m on 380; Holden almost $1b on VE Crappodore (difference of more than 50%). Does that mean that, at least in terms of drivetrain refinement and dynamics, the VE will be 50% better than 380? I think not!

Let's just hope 380's list of standard safety features grows considerably in the near future - that's something that we CAN (hope to dear God) expect.

According to Mitsubishi dealers curtain airbags are going to be standard on all 380 Series II's from around October this year. By all accounts they had also researched into putting curtain airbags into the TL/TW but found that the structure of the car was unsuitable for curtain airbags (also according to Mitsubishi dealers).

I also enquired about ESP and I have been given the response that they are also looking into it, as for whether ESP will be in the 380 this year is another question.

I know odds of it happening are pretty long, but:

Wouldn't it be funny if Mitsi's DID put a V8 version of the 380 into the Supercars and won at Bathurst........

Then all the falcadore fans would have to admit a few things......


On a side note, is there really that much difference in the performance etc of the pseudo-falcons and pseudo-commodores that race in the Supercar series anymore???

I thought that the only similarity that they held with teh road models anymore was the body shape?


V8 Magnas have been built and raced before, it was a few years ago.
I dont follow motorsport, are these teams still racing?
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=57895&FS=TOURING
http://www.v8x.com.au/cms/A_30451/article.html

And check out this custom job, 2 door V8 mod:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/713458

Is the owner a member here? I'd love to hear about it.

Hell that looks hot as a 2 door. If they raced a 380 looking like that in style with an all alloy v8 they'd surely attract some fans (even if it had 4 doors).

They could dump the 380 engine in the Lancer Wagon to give fleet oppurtunites to buy a wagon that may be considered big because of its engine size. Heck, if the engine would fit the Lancer would fly with the 3.8litre block in it. 0-100km in say 6seconds? But, that isn't suited to businesses though, but would be nice!

Perhaps the 6g72 3.0 would be suited to the Lancer wagon? This engine is still used in the Triton and Challenger, so why not throw the puppy into the Lancer to appeal to fleet buyers who would otherwise go the Falcon/Commo route. I feel that the 3.8 would overwhelm the Lancer's already mediocre dymanics and may not even fit the engine bay. But even with the 3.0 Mitsu would need to do some serious suspension and brake tuning so that it handle the bigger motor and stop properly. Did anyone read Wheels Handling Test from a few months back? The Lancer was one of the worst handling and braking in the lineup they had and the Mazda 6 FWD! trumped the entire field.

The Lancer was one of the worst handling and braking in the lineup they had and the Mazda 6 FWD! trumped the entire field.

Yeah I seen that but wasn't that before the 2.4 was put in the Lancer? Which means that the car they tested would have also lacked ABS brakes, meaning it would of flunked compared to vehicles that did have them.