I thought somebody else was going to make this announcement yesterday.....

Cars started rolling off the end of MMAL's assembly line yesterday after production had ceased for more than one month. This is good news. However the daily build rate isn't as high as it was before the break. Some volume is better than none.

FF

It was LESS than one month buddy:nuts:

But yes, good news nevertheless - something that was supposed to happen has happened. Er, yay?

Production ceased on the 23rd of February and recommenced on the 27th of March.

Need a calendar?

FF

Well atleast if they're making cars at a slower rate the quality will hopefully be 25 times better then commodores instead of the normal 24times better.

Seriously though, I still find it saddening that the public is so stupid to buy two old products rather then this new one. Because the market is soooo hard to predict this year could turn out to be a success for Mitsubishi. Because Holden, Ford and Toyota were already discounting there (dated, and Ford's halfdated) aussie models at the time of the 380's release mitsubishi had to join the trend.

But, because Holden and Toyota will have to stop discounting (as they won't need to - [we can hope they have to due to decreased demand :badgrin: ]), people will start to see, oh s&it see how much cheaper the 380 is then the commodore (and aurion) and the 380 still has more features and looks rather good compared to that ugly new commodore (and its made in elizabeth and is only 52% aussie, uggh), I might buy the 380 instead.

That translates into a sale and will hopefully continue (one way or another) throughout the market.

Sorry to cover old ground, but the 380's problem is not the technology, but the perception. It really annoys me how motoring journalists automatically bag the Mitsubishi, despite the fact that it is arguably the best large sedan on the market at the moment.

If I were Mistubishi, I'd play hard ball and just blanket the market with advertising and sharp pricing. If you sell the 380 the right way, and drop the cost of the base model slightly, I think they'd be onto a winner.

Sorry to go slightly off thread.

Production ceased on the 23rd of February and recommenced on the 27th of March.

Need a calendar?

FF

Well I'm an idiot!!!:redface: :doh:

Sorry to cover old ground, but the 380's problem is not the technology, but the perception. It really annoys me how motoring journalists automatically bag the Mitsubishi, despite the fact that it is arguably the best large sedan on the market at the moment.

If I were Mistubishi, I'd play hard ball and just blanket the market with advertising and sharp pricing. If you sell the 380 the right way, and drop the cost of the base model slightly, I think they'd be onto a winner.

Sorry to go slightly off thread.

The problem is both the technology and perception. Motoring journos agree it is a very good car but has no new technology what so ever. We could list a whole bunch of things carried over from the magna but we would struggle to list some new technology from the 380....

It really annoys me how motoring journalists automatically bag the Mitsubishi, despite the fact that it is arguably the best large sedan on the market at the moment.


In terms of putting the car together yes.. In terms of features.. No..

i wouldn't say its the best, i still think ford are number 1 for large cars, the 380 comes in at second

Good to here its going again, hopefully Mitsu will get some big contracts soon. Oh well at least there are bargains out there, in fact im seing '05 demo VRX's for only 34 driveaway, which is mighty temting (but about 9k out my range unfortunately).

I still cant fathom how companies (ok resale) or anyone could possibly by a POS VZ Executive with dangerous 15" wheels and doesnt even have standard airconditioning.

The problem is both the technology and perception. Motoring journos agree it is a very good car but has no new technology what so ever. We could list a whole bunch of things carried over from the magna but we would struggle to list some new technology from the 380....

Does a car need to be revolutionary to sell? People who buy the 380/Falcon/Commodore aren't looking for something that has the features and dynamics of a 5 series BMW. If they were, they'd be paying the $100k plus. They're looking for a large car at a reasonable price. For the majority of people who buy the base model (or one model up from the base model), do they need anything over and above what the 380 offers?

If you can point out some features which the base model Falcon/Commodore have that the 380 doesn't have, then I may be persuaded by the argument.

Definitely not. People are flocking to the new Barina because it's cheap, has a Holden badge although it's a Daewoo:eh: , and decent standard equipment list. The Barina also comes standard with a 2 star saftey rating.:doubt:

Hardly a revoltionary replacement for the well respected previous european sourced model. But that hasn't seemed to deter buyers as they are selling like hot cakes.

I don't believe the 380 is selling due to poor public perception of the Magna (unfounded in my opinion), crap marketing, no new selling points as most of the features found in the 380 were introducted in the TL/TW. Perhaps this is why there has been so much focus on the 380's build quality.

Ideally, the 380 should have been released as the replacement after the TJ series 1 or 2. It's just a pity Mitsubishi couldn't make it happen back then. It would have been perfect timing to compete with the then new BA and VY.

It could have been loaded to the brim with all the TL's standard features, completely new body, the 3.8L engine, standard 16 wheels like the falcon etc. And with good marketing I believe would have sold well. Then the 380 series 2 could have been released around now to compete with the BF and VZ.

A 380 replacement could have then introduced around the time of the VE Commodore and new Falcon (orion?).

Oh well....

Definitely not. People are flocking to the new Barina because it's cheap, has a Holden badge although it's a Daewoo , and decent standard equipment list. The Barina also comes standard with a 2 star saftey rating.


Speaking of the Barina apparently that new POS has the worst safety rating out of any small car since the Barina model that was also a Suzuki Swift (early 90's).

As for release date, the 380 should have been released at the exact same time (or slightly after) the American Galant. So late '02 early '03 would have been the way to go.

Perhaps to use up excess capacity and save jobs the next gen Lancer could also be built in Oz as the Lancer has always sold quite well and with a new model and petrol prices on the rise people should flock to this model.

Definitely not. People are flocking to the new Barina because it's cheap, has a Holden badge although it's a Daewoo, and decent standard equipment list. The Barina also comes standard with a 2 star saftey rating...

Hardly a revoltionary replacement for the well respected previous european sourced model. But that hasn't seemed to deter buyers as they are selling like hot cakes.

I don't believe the 380 is selling due to poor public perception of the Magna (unfounded in my opinion), crap marketing, no new selling points as most of the features found in the 380 were introducted in the TL/TW. Perhaps this is why there has been so much focus on the 380's build quality.....

With your first point re the Barina, I think we can all agree it's proof of the general ignorance and stupidity of the Aussie car buying public. "Honey, look at my new car. It's crap to drive, unsafe, poor in quality, but hey, it's a Holden - YAY! Now, off to Centrelink..."

More people buy V6 Camry's than 380 :confused:, Holden's Commondork continues to sell, and people buy Corolla's for what could only be ONE reason... it's a Corolla.

I've said it before, but if 380 didn't wear the triple diamond it would be a winner. You're right with the public's perception of Magna and Mitsubishi - totally unfounded. It ****s me up the wall when even motoring journo's give it a hard time:tantrum: .

Any of you catch the Wheels annual roadtests issue? Editor Bulmer pleads that people SHOULD NOT buy a car before reading this mag. Then I turn to the back where they recommend Falcon as the best large sedan. OK, I can wear that. But oh, they're recommending others ("I wonder what the say about 380?" I think to myself). We have Nissan's Maxima, and of course that f**king Crappodore. NO 380!!!:shock: In other words, they're not recommending people buy 380.

Mitsubishi can spend big on marketing etc, but if media give them the cold shoulder what's the point. I'm just frustrated by the whole thing. On one hand you have the 380, a car that's good enough to sell double what it is, but not good enough to save MMAL (in it's current form at least). Then you have the bogan-oriented public, and media, who believe Holden is God's gift to the universe, and to hell with all other marquee's, whether Aussie-built or not.

It doesn't matter whether VE is any good or not, it'll win COTY. Even Paul Gover from Carsgudie (a real dickhead) reckons it's already got it won!?!?!? And just how the f**k does he know how good it is? Ah, he MUST be involved at Fishermans Bend somehow... So concerned am I about the over-reaction to VE I plan on leaving the country! It may very well push me over the line into clinical insanity.:rofleek:

Sorry for going slightly of topic, I get emotional about it!:soapbox:

Well atleast if they're making cars at a slower rate the quality will hopefully be 25 times better then commodores instead of the normal 24times better.

Seriously though, I still find it saddening that the public is so stupid to buy two old products rather then this new one. Because the market is soooo hard to predict this year could turn out to be a success for Mitsubishi. Because Holden, Ford and Toyota were already discounting there (dated, and Ford's halfdated) aussie models at the time of the 380's release mitsubishi had to join the trend.

But, because Holden and Toyota will have to stop discounting (as they won't need to - [we can hope they have to due to decreased demand :badgrin: ]), people will start to see, oh s&it see how much cheaper the 380 is then the commodore (and aurion) and the 380 still has more features and looks rather good compared to that ugly new commodore (and its made in elizabeth and is only 52% aussie, uggh), I might buy the 380 instead.

That translates into a sale and will hopefully continue (one way or another) throughout the market.
Err dude, the 380 IS old! It's based of the 3 year old US Galant :|
I try not to comment on 380 rants much, but i need to say that the 380 isn't a new revolutionary car, it's just bringing Mitsubishi back upto par to your falcon/commodore in terms of features, handling even looks. However, it doesnt have that certain "wow" factor, and that's why mitsu don't have huge sales.
perfect example: XR6 Turbo. it has that "wow" factor of a turbo sedan! that hasn't been seen in years and ford have hiot the nail on the head and got a considerable market share from it! As far as the 380 is conserned, there's jsut nothing new, nothing unique about it.. ho apart from the sales pitch to me about their "artic blue" dash lights :doubt:
I'm not bagging the 380, i like it.. it's just not miles ahead as i hoped it would have been.

Sorry to cover old ground, but the 380's problem is not the technology, but the perception. It really annoys me how motoring journalists automatically bag the Mitsubishi, despite the fact that it is arguably the best large sedan on the market at the moment.

If I were Mistubishi, I'd play hard ball and just blanket the market with advertising and sharp pricing. If you sell the 380 the right way, and drop the cost of the base model slightly, I think they'd be onto a winner.

Sorry to go slightly off thread.

You da man. I'll email your suggestion to MMAL. With words changed. and not identifying you. :D

Does a car need to be revolutionary to sell? People who buy the 380/Falcon/Commodore aren't looking for something that has the features and dynamics of a 5 series BMW. If they were, they'd be paying the $100k plus. They're looking for a large car at a reasonable price. For the majority of people who buy the base model (or one model up from the base model), do they need anything over and above what the 380 offers?

If you can point out some features which the base model Falcon/Commodore have that the 380 doesn't have, then I may be persuaded by the argument.

I agree people don't need anything over and above what the 380 offers but it'd be a great selling point if it did have something over and above. Your question here is why aren't they selling well in comparison to falcon/commo/camry?

In regards to your comparison of features with falcon/commodore, the commodore for one has one very new feature ie. the 3.6 litre alloytec V6. This is a huge leap for Holden moving away from pushrod engines. As someone mentioned here, the 380 doesn't have the 'wow' factor. It looks conservative and they are no hero models to help its cause.

If I were looking at buying a base model large family car, I'd certainly look at getting a 380. It does have great features. Beats me why they aren't selling. Its looks certainly wouldn't buy me over tho. Maybe people are moving away from large cars to mid-sized better looking mazda6s, accords and libertys. Who knows what everyone thinks..

You da man. I'll email your suggestion to MMAL. With words changed. and not identifying you. :D

Hmmm... don't know whether that was serious or sarcastic :D

Err dude, the 380 IS old! It's based of the 3 year old US Galant :|
I try not to comment on 380 rants much, but i need to say that the 380 isn't a new revolutionary car, it's just bringing Mitsubishi back upto par to your falcon/commodore in terms of features, handling even looks. However, it doesnt have that certain "wow" factor, and that's why mitsu don't have huge sales.
perfect example: XR6 Turbo. it has that "wow" factor of a turbo sedan! that hasn't been seen in years and ford have hiot the nail on the head and got a considerable market share from it! As far as the 380 is conserned, there's jsut nothing new, nothing unique about it.. ho apart from the sales pitch to me about their "artic blue" dash lights :doubt:
I'm not bagging the 380, i like it.. it's just not miles ahead as i hoped it would have been.

I agree, the 380 isn't a revolutionary car and the reason? Almost all of the features seen in the 380 were seen in the 3rd gen, most notably the TL/TW. Such as:

Standard climate control
Standard 4 airbags
Superior aerodynamics
Superior security systems
Superior 4 and 5 speed tiptronic autos
Equal if not better engine technology and on par performance.
Superior NVH
Superior quality
Superior suspension to the commodore

Mitsubishi were ahead of the ball game. The problem is they packaged all these features into a Magna that should have been or was nearing the end of it's lifecyle and with styling (TL/TW) that didn't appeal to everyone. No disrepect to the TL/TW because it was probably the best iteration, most well finished of the Magnas. It's just that it didn't leave that much room to move with the 380.

There is nothing revolutionary about the BA/BF and VY/VZ commodore either. In fact I read one article in Motor or Wheels at the time the BA was released which said that the BA is what the AU should have been. The only difference is that Holden and Ford flog their suposed new technology through heavy AND CLEVER advertising. The pubic sees this, thinks 'GO THE AUSSIE CARS' and goes out and buys a Falcon or Commodore. Meanwhile, the Magna, an Australian built car which had most of this susposedly new technology years ago gets overlooked.

Why? You just have to ask yourself where has the original 380 tv ad gone? The only one I've seen is the lame as red 380 LE on white background tv ad. Good way to keep interest in a do or die model. Seriously Mitsubishi, it's worse than the Triton, Pajero, Lancer and Outlander that you filmed in one of your showrooms with the same crap voice over guy! Inject some emotion and fun into your ads as you should be well aware by now that it leaves a lasting impression on buyers. Geez how hard can it be.

Err dude, the 380 IS old! It's based of the 3 year old US Galant :|
I try not to comment on 380 rants much, but i need to say that the 380 isn't a new revolutionary car, it's just bringing Mitsubishi back upto par to your falcon/commodore in terms of features, handling even looks. However, it doesnt have that certain "wow" factor, and that's why mitsu don't have huge sales.
perfect example: XR6 Turbo. it has that "wow" factor of a turbo sedan! that hasn't been seen in years and ford have hiot the nail on the head and got a considerable market share from it! As far as the 380 is conserned, there's jsut nothing new, nothing unique about it.. ho apart from the sales pitch to me about their "artic blue" dash lights
I'm not bagging the 380, i like it.. it's just not miles ahead as i hoped it would have been.

Even if the 380 is based on the Galant so what. The BA (and the BF?? Spot the difference!) are based on the AU. The VZ is still on that ****ty VT drivetrain and that beautiful 4 speeder Holden use belongs in the Daewoos that got taken out of our country, even holdens 5 speed is pathetic. the XR6 Turbo still doesn't have that wow factor, yeah the BF ('new falcon') has been released with no difference from the last model apart from a "GERMAN ENGINEERED" gearbox that is apparently made in South Africa. Hmm great innovation, "we just thought we spend our dough on importing the gearbox, stuff the exterior, people are still buying it". Which gets to the point, design is what alot of people go for. People still buy the VZ commodore (don't ask me why), perhaps because they are all disadvantaged of driving a decent car and good build quality and are brain washed by this stupid lion badge that sits upon the bonnet. and if I wanted a turbo sedan just hand me some more quid and I buy an S4 with a v6 turbo (and some v8) engines, I'd have that over an XR6T anyday a used one at $75-$80k and I'd run to buy it with the cash).

And the stupid Barina? don't get me started. I hope that some stupid person crashes into my car (tl es) with that new barina to see how *** they are just travelling at 60kms an hour so i can say to them "well your the dickhead who bought the car" and hopefully person gets with other barina crash victoms and all sew holden for selling such a potentially dangerous car. Hopefully Holden get some bad media attention and their sales flunk. Why I would feel sorry for people who may lose their job; it serves holden right for importing shooty cars and dated cars in the suburb of Elizabeth (well atleast the land is cheap there - they could pay compensation and build a housing estate?).

P.S. > Don't get up me about Falcon gearboxes I'm just stating a point and actually like Falcons (2nd fav aussie car). I'm just talking about how weird it is that they didnt update their design for the car they advertise as the 'new falcon'.

Now that I got that out of my head (pheew) I agree. Mitsubishi's advertisements for the 380 suck. The original was marginal and the LE commercial (1000 LE's only - yeah right!) is blooooody terrible. I thought that was like a temporary thing, but no, its on during 7 news everynight just before the sports report comes on. If SII does get released this year I hope that they completely change their style of marketing for the 380 and try and attract some attention to the car. They could start off in a driveway, reverse out of it, and the driver could start flooring it and the driver could say something like 0-100 in 7.6 seconds, faster then the commodore and falcon. A five speed gearbox and premium audio (and go on about the cars features). But, have a real life guy driving and make people relate to the commerical. They could have to different commercials to give people a perception of what men and woman think of the 'same' car, if you know what I mean? To people same car, they could show the features that would appear to each sex and hopefully sell what the cars got rather then show the car with a $29,990 price tag and thats it.

As for features to add? Standard ESP, standard 6 airbags. What else to change? Door grips on rear doors and a revised centre column/console.

GT should have sat-nav atop the dash and Xenon (and automatic on/off and levelling) headlights. LX and GT should also get LED taillights. Maybe rear window shades built into the window that you can pull up or down and rear adjustable headrests. It really needs to shine and to do this it needs something that other Aussie cars don't currently have, which all of these features are. Why don't they keep heated seats for the front seats as an option as per the US Galant? And other crap like that, maybe add a subwoofa and a smart key with an ignition "start/stop" switch. that would do it.

If SII does get released this year I hope that they completely change their style of marketing for the 380 and try and attract some attention to the car. They could start off in a driveway, reverse out of it, and the driver could start flooring it and the driver could say something like 0-100 in 7.6 seconds, faster then the commodore and falcon. A five speed gearbox and premium audio (and go on about the cars features).


Nope they couldn't, they'd get shot down faster than a tiger moth in a modern war, car manufacturers aren't allowed to show cars being driven "spiritedly" anymore and any adds that do pop up, quickly get shut down, Mistu aus certainly can't afford to have an add cancelled. As much as I agree with you, I think the 380 is just going to have to weather the storm and sell on word of mouth, hopefully gaining a good reputation on the way leaving a smoother path for the replacement than the Magna did. I don't see any way the 380 can become a booming sales success when even the Commodore and Falcon sales are steadily falling due to a flooded market and differing buyer trends.

Matthius

The people who run mmal are not stupid, far from it i imagine.

They would have realised that the first few years would be tight (even though what they released to the public was future sales of 25,000 per annum, that just makes them seem strong)

Before a new car gets released, they think about it. they make sure that when they release it, it will benefit them. In thinking that, they probably released the 380 when they did simply so that people start to get used to it, and gradually over time people will like it. When the new commodore and flacons come out in a few months time, there will be the 380, discounted as a runout for the new model, while holden and ford are sitting there with their new models that they cant discount yet........ thats when then 380 will start to sell.

P.S. > Don't get up me about Falcon gearboxes I'm just stating a point and actually like Falcons (2nd fav aussie car). I'm just talking about how weird it is that they didnt update their design for the car they advertise as the 'new falcon'.


Actually there was quite a few changes implemented in the BF, from minor parts upgrades to 2 major ones Dynamic Stability Control and the ZF 6 Speed Auto.

The reason they didnt update the design is because:

1) The australian market likes the look of the car.
2) 07 or 08 will see a new family sedan brought out.

There are a few other comments i disagree on. But it would be a waste of time :)

Actually there was quite a few changes implemented in the BF, from minor parts upgrades to 2 major ones Dynamic Stability Control and the ZF 6 Speed Auto.

The reason they didnt update the design is because:

1) The australian market likes the look of the car.
2) 07 or 08 will see a new family sedan brought out.

There are a few other comments i disagree on. But it would be a waste of time :)

Don't forget the vast improvment in NHV levels (somthing allot of people look at):P

the ZF 6 Speed Auto.

In the xr6 models and up.

Pleb XT and Futura models still get the 4 speed.

Yer, this is true. My Dad just got bak from a holiday in Tassie, and their hire car down there was a BF Falcon wagon. He said it drove nice, but the 4 speed gearbox was not the best, the suspension was old (leaf springs, live rear axle?) and the interior... well, I can't say what he said about that on the forums. lol

Yer, this is true. My Dad just got bak from a holiday in Tassie, and their hire car down there was a BF Falcon wagon. He said it drove nice, but the 4 speed gearbox was not the best, the suspension was old (leaf springs, live rear axle?) and the interior... well, I can't say what he said about that on the forums. lol
bf all have irs mate

Even in BF form only the sedans have the IRS. The wagons and utes have leaf springs.

If SII does get released this year I hope that they completely change their style of marketing for the 380 and try and attract some attention to the car. They could start off in a driveway, reverse out of it, and the driver could start flooring it and the driver could say something like 0-100 in 7.6 seconds, faster then the commodore and falcon. A five speed gearbox and premium audio (and go on about the cars features). But, have a real life guy driving and make people relate to the commerical. They could have to different commercials to give people a perception of what men and woman think of the 'same' car, if you know what I mean? To people same car, they could show the features that would appear to each sex and hopefully sell what the cars got rather then show the car with a $29,990 price tag and thats it.

I don't think you'll find the 380 would beat the commodore or falcon 0-100 style.

Additionally, consumers don't always like obvious perception pressure - for instance that awful Renault ad a couple of years ago that went "Renault invented the turbo in 1927... so we know a lot about performance"

Found an interesting comment from SMH online's blog in relation to car advertising - maybe a bit of inspiration to MMAL if anyone ever reads it:



Can anyone make a decent car ad?

At last a half-decent car ad. One that does not feature some grinning idiot at the wheel (Holden) or the mythical pulling power, ha-ha, of a flouro-coloured ute (Ford).

It's pleasing to see someone in the car industry is trying to make an ad that dares to be different and the latest BMW spot does just that, telling the story of how the 3 series developed over the past 30-odd years into the car it is today.

(The ad's theme song is an excerpt from Body Rockers' I like the way you move).

Even more heartening, we don't see the driver - usually a ham-fisted attempt by the advertiser to semaphore the target demographic.

Nor do we have some smarmy voice telling us about all the little extras that make that particular model extra special.

Instead there is some great computer generated imagery, amazing shots and a proper 'story' to the brand, that of its pedigree.

Sadly though neither BMW nor its agency could help itself from falling for what is becoming a cliche in car marketing - the use of the mountains around Queenstown, New Zealand as a backdrop (superimposed in the editing suite) which appear all too regularly in car ads.

Another car advertiser that is trying to be different is Honda. Though it is not a patch on what Honda's European ad agency came up with for the launch of Civic in the United Kingdom . To date three million have viewed it on the internet and you can see why. It is a worthy follow up of the award-winning ad, Cog.

When I asked Honda Australia why they couldn't run that same ad here they said that the models were not the same, which is about the weakest excuse for an industry that reguarly buys in ads from overseas, puts an Aussie voice over them and runs them as their own.

All it would have taken is a nip and tuck in the edit suite and we would have been treated to something truly original. Instead, all we have is this - Honda's latest ad.

BMW Ad: http://media.fairfax.com.au/?rid=18433
Honda Ad: http://media.fairfax.com.au/?rid=18515




As for features to add? Standard ESP, standard 6 airbags. What else to change? Door grips on rear doors and a revised centre column/console.

GT should have sat-nav atop the dash and Xenon (and automatic on/off and levelling) headlights. LX and GT should also get LED taillights. Maybe rear window shades built into the window that you can pull up or down and rear adjustable headrests. It really needs to shine and to do this it needs something that other Aussie cars don't currently have, which all of these features are

All these suggestions are great in a costless world, but for Mitsubishi to do all this would cause the standard cost of the 380 to increase, in what ever the trim line, and probably push the price of the 380GT 10-15k higher - putting it against the euros and Lexus, where the 380 will come off second best. It pains me to say, but it is a family/sales rep/executive car, not a luxury car, and Mitsubishi's business plan needs the base model to sell the most with the best profit margin - consumers care about the overall cost, MMAL needs to care about the profit per vehicle.

Afterall, Australian cars have traditionally struggled with luxury models on the domestic market - the sales of the Fairmont and the Stateman in Australia are testament to that.

The BMW ad is cool:cool:

Actually there was quite a few changes implemented in the BF, from minor parts upgrades to 2 major ones Dynamic Stability Control and the ZF 6 Speed Auto.

The reason they didnt update the design is because:

1) The australian market likes the look of the car.
2) 07 or 08 will see a new family sedan brought out.

There are a few other comments i disagree on. But it would be a waste of time

Hey, I hope you know I wasn't really having a dig at Falcons you know. I think they are good cars and if MMAL didn't build a large sedan I'd have a Falcon over a commondore or camry anyday.

And yeah, I know about fords apparent 'flawless' auto along with DSC. Two upgrades that should be in the 380GT (well ESP should be standard). As for looks, yeah I like the front on the XR6 (it looks quite hot actually :) ) but I aint to keen on the rear end, maybe put LEDs in or something, I don't quite know; but, by no means am I saying its ugly (the AU gets that trophy).

Oh, and for '07/'08 I can't find any information on Ford's future vehicle. Can you answer my question as to why Ford may no longer use the Falcon name? I know reliability has been an issue with Falcons in the past but surely after many happy customers with the BA/BF this won't be a problem.

I just hope we don't end up with anything (Exterior wise) looking like the Fusion (it's the ugliest ford ever; uglier then the Taraus!). Maybe they could just call the new one Fairmont instead or something, but still, the Falcon has a good perception and if Ford promoted the car by showing what it has got against the Commodore I'm sure more RWD people will shift (from that POS commodore).

I also hope that in future Ford's LWB luxury model (aka. Fairlane) differentiates itself more from the standard model. The Fairlane actually looks too plain at the back and doesn't look much different then the base model. Where as with the AU Fairlane the looks weren't that bad and it actually looked really good compared with the Falcon of that time. Finally, have you got any pics of what Ford's next model may look like or any info?

Cheers

Hey, I hope you know I wasn't really having a dig at Falcons you know. I think they are good cars and if MMAL didn't build a large sedan I'd have a Falcon over a commondore or camry anyday.

And yeah, I know about fords apparent 'flawless' auto along with DSC. Two upgrades that should be in the 380GT (well ESP should be standard). As for looks, yeah I like the front on the XR6 (it looks quite hot actually :) ) but I aint to keen on the rear end, maybe put LEDs in or something, I don't quite know; but, by no means am I saying its ugly (the AU gets that trophy).

Oh, and for '07/'08 I can't find any information on Ford's future vehicle. Can you answer my question as to why Ford may no longer use the Falcon name? I know reliability has been an issue with Falcons in the past but surely after many happy customers with the BA/BF this won't be a problem.

I just hope we don't end up with anything (Exterior wise) looking like the Fusion (it's the ugliest ford ever; uglier then the Taraus!). Maybe they could just call the new one Fairmont instead or something, but still, the Falcon has a good perception and if Ford promoted the car by showing what it has got against the Commodore I'm sure more RWD people will shift (from that POS commodore).

I also hope that in future Ford's LWB luxury model (aka. Fairlane) differentiates itself more from the standard model. The Fairlane actually looks too plain at the back and doesn't look much different then the base model. Where as with the AU Fairlane the looks weren't that bad and it actually looked really good compared with the Falcon of that time. Finally, have you got any pics of what Ford's next model may look like or any info?

Cheers

A few things to note.

1) It will be Falcon. No Two ways about it. The Falcon is the longest running name of a model world wide.
2) It will be a better built than the BA

For model cues, look into the Ford 427 and the Ford Iosis. Many of the styling hints come from these cars.

A few things to note.

1) It will be Falcon. No Two ways about it. The Falcon is the longest running name of a model world wide.
2) It will be a better built than the BA

For model cues, look into the Ford 427 and the Ford Iosis. Many of the styling hints come from these cars.

Thanks for that. I'm glad there not dropping the name Falcon actually cos it suits the car (a Ford 400 would sound alright though). Glad to here it will be better built as some of the BA/BF's build quality is questionable. Holden's is worse but apparently their going to fix all that on the VE (speaking of Holden, I have been invited to go to the open day by a friend, which I will do and if I find out anything about the VE i'll post it here).

I looked into the 427 and you can't be serious can you? Hopefully when you say styling hints hopefully the only thing your talking about the mags. Everything else about that car is ugly ugly ugly. That's worse then the fusion, cos atleast the Fusions interior is somewhat respectable. I hope they don't go that way because it will really scare people off. Mind you though, that's a concept and I doubt it they will use much from that car anyway; but, if they do it will be the AU all over again.

On the sideview it actually looks alot like a 300C for some reason. The back end also shares looks with the 300C but the car still looks like crap. Geez, I think I liked the AU better!

And the Iosis, different story. I kind of like the front something about it (the lights I think) remind me of an Ashton Martin and an RX-8. Very interesting interior but it wouldn't be my choice (someone get some scissors and chop those stupid headrests off). The best thing about the rear is the intergrated exhaust pipes, very Lexus like, but look hot. The taillights are on the hate list because they look bloody weird (they should edge them off), mags are also hot. Boot could be a slight bit longer and that would do it. Something about the car says "I'm a Mazda" all over it though, maybe the taillights, look kind of like an (old model) Mazda 6, but muddles up a bit if you know what I mean?

Thanks.

It will be Falcon. No Two ways about it. The Falcon is the longest running name of a model world wide.

Hate to nitpick but the Fairlane is actually the longest running name of all time it dates back to 1955, Falcon didnt come about until 1960.

As for the VE, i dont really believe the hype, sure it will be a good car, but alot of cost-cutting has hit and it will still have a macpherson strut front end, and the alloytec wont be getting better anytime soon, so i still think both the 380 and the BF still have a spot for a while yet (unless the Aurion is the most exciting car ever made, which i doubt)

Well then they should dump Falcon and make Fairlane the mainstream model.

A few things to note.

1) It will be Falcon. No Two ways about it. The Falcon is the longest running name of a model world wide.
2) It will be a better built than the BA

For model cues, look into the Ford 427 and the Ford Iosis. Many of the styling hints come from these cars.

The new replacement vehicle is code named Orion.

There are some outdated pics floating around the net..

Unfortunately i cant post up any of the prototype models weve seen :)

Hate to nitpick but the Fairlane is actually the longest running name of all time it dates back to 1955, Falcon didnt come about until 1960.

As for the VE, i dont really believe the hype, sure it will be a good car, but alot of cost-cutting has hit and it will still have a macpherson strut front end, and the alloytec wont be getting better anytime soon, so i still think both the 380 and the BF still have a spot for a while yet (unless the Aurion is the most exciting car ever made, which i doubt)

Why would holden be cost cutting the ve?Because GM going down the plug hole in the US?With loses of $10.6 billion dollars:nuts:

Why would holden be cost cutting the ve?Because GM going down the plug hole in the US?With loses of $10.6 billion dollars

That means there only losing 2.9million a day, hmm GM Australia must be like the only GM company actually succeeding at present (damn you Holden).

That is fairly true, they are also recognised as being a good engineering facility hence they designed the Zeta architecture.

Hmmm... don't know whether that was serious or sarcastic :D

Serious dude. And they rang me the same day! to say they were passing my (your) suggestion on to Product Planning. :)

Stopping production for the last month explains why I am still waiting for my 380 GT. We are gettign sooo much crap from the dealer we have talked cancelling the order, and buying a Honda.

If ti does not appear in the next week we still will.

Stopping production for the last month explains why I am still waiting for my 380 GT. We are gettign sooo much crap from the dealer we have talked cancelling the order, and buying a Honda.

If ti does not appear in the next week we still will.

A honda? Hopefully if you were looking at a honda you mean the accord euro and not the standard accord. Cos the standard accord is but ugly but has a good v6 engine available where as the accord euro has no v6 available but is a hot looking car (starting to look slightly dated now though). But if you want a v6 i would just wait for the 380GT, it is a good looking car with good features and atleast you know it it will be '06 plated, have a flawless warranty, effortless performance and good reliability.

Strange that the GT has been in strong demand compared to the base and other models. The VRX is also high in demand. I think it is the styling, alot of people think that the GT and VRX doesn't look so bland and therefore buy it over others. When we get one though my mum wants the LX though, but, I would like the GT (were getting one later this year!).

By the way what colour did you order?

Serious dude. And they rang me the same day! to say they were passing my (your) suggestion on to Product Planning. :)

Yeah, OK, very funny :gtfo: :D

Yeah, OK, very funny :gtfo: :D


They did!

They did!

Well atleast we can give them a cost effective way of making the 380 a 'better' vehicle.

Oh, it's my 200th post. yay!

Hmm...

Some of us got bagged for saying that we thought the 380 wasnt what it should have been..

Personally I think Mitsubishi's marketing department must be extremely broke, I havent seen any commercials for the 380 for months, and the few I did see were extremely poor..

I actually really like the VRX, its no XR6 or SV6 but really its a class of its own, runs rings around the Camry, Maxima and Accord, and ofcourse its Australian Built. None of the euro cars like the Maxima or Accord are really that great on paper, but they still sell well, especially the Accord. Look at Honda advertising tho, its extremely sophisticated which is to be expected for an overseas model with a worldwide advertising budget.

I wouldn't buy the 380 VRX for myself as a weekend car, on paper its slower then the base model Falcon, but in saying this however I would buy one for work as they are well built, come with a very good warranty and now are as cheap as base model Commys and Falcons.

Will Mitsubishi Last in Australia? Sadly they won't, How the effects of the 380 will take to impact the companys financial position is anyones guess, but I cant see them lasting till Christmas, if you cant sell a new model at production numbers for the first 4 months then then you have little chance improving it in the future.. look at the BA when it was first released, the AU was a dog and everyone knew it, the BA took away everyones doubt and you had to wait 8 weeks to even get an XT in your colour choice... XR6 Turbos still cannot be purchased off the floor and neither can XR6 NA's because they sell so well.

In saying this, Mitsubishi will still be in Australia, just wont produce its own models, it may however produce other models like the Lancer etc at with the infrastructure already in place, but I cant see the 380 continuing...

Hmm...

Some of us got bagged for saying that we thought the 380 wasnt what it should have been..

Personally I think Mitsubishi's marketing department must be extremely broke, I havent seen any commercials for the 380 for months, and the few I did see were extremely poor..

I actually really like the VRX, its no XR6 or SV6 but really its a class of its own, runs rings around the Camry, Maxima and Accord, and ofcourse its Australian Built. None of the euro cars like the Maxima or Accord are really that great on paper, but they still sell well, especially the Accord. Look at Honda advertising tho, its extremely sophisticated which is to be expected for an overseas model with a worldwide advertising budget.

I wouldn't buy the 380 VRX for myself as a weekend car, on paper its slower then the base model Falcon, but in saying this however I would buy one for work as they are well built, come with a very good warranty and now are as cheap as base model Commys and Falcons.

Will Mitsubishi Last in Australia? Sadly they won't, How the effects of the 380 will take to impact the companys financial position is anyones guess, but I cant see them lasting till Christmas, if you cant sell a new model at production numbers for the first 4 months then then you have little chance improving it in the future.. look at the BA when it was first released, the AU was a dog and everyone knew it, the BA took away everyones doubt and you had to wait 8 weeks to even get an XT in your colour choice... XR6 Turbos still cannot be purchased off the floor and neither can XR6 NA's because they sell so well.

In saying this, Mitsubishi will still be in Australia, just wont produce its own models, it may however produce other models like the Lancer etc at with the infrastructure already in place, but I cant see the 380 continuing...
It's funny you say that with the 380 S2 just around the corner due to be released June-August. After that a Ralliart version of the 380 later this year. Are you sure you're firing on all cylinders there man? Or just wafting some random jargon into this thread?

It's funny you say that with the 380 S2 just around the corner due to be released June-August. After that a Ralliart version of the 380 later this year. Are you sure you're firing on all cylinders there man? Or just wafting some random jargon into this thread?

Series II within 8 months of Launch? Are you Serious or Bull****ing me? Thats only going to put another nail in the coffin for MMC in Australia. You cannot DO that, they said they wouldn't do that or drop the price on the 380 to protect buyers from Dodgy resale.. And they wonder why Fleet Plan and Orix are very skeptical on committing to large quanity orders.. Bloody hopeless!

Dream UP Some decent advertising and push the product they have, rather then dieing in the ass like they always have with realeasing special *cheap* models and series upgrades. To be really Honest if toyota can sell Camrys, Mitsubishi can sell the 380 as it is, they have seriously lost their touch in the selling department, not to mention the arrogant dealers getting around.

I can actually see them producing the next gen Lancer. The next gen Lancer will also be more suited to Australia because it is going to be yet again larger then the model it replaces and has a very unique style to it. Hopefully if MMAL do produce the Lancer they give it features that are similar to other Australian built cars. If this did happen they could keep the Lancer badge or possibly re-name it.

As for MMAL building the 380 I think they will last longer then till the end of this year and will see them producing well into early 2007 when the MMC quarterly report is in and if MMC continues to make a profit and MMAL can prodcue evidence that the car was marketed in-correctly due to lack of funds and money to add features to the vehicle MMC may give $$$$ to add these features to make it compete better with other australian 6's. This could include bringing in the 2.4 engine so it has two engine options, standard 6 airbags (meant to be standard as of August 2006 anyway) and ESP along with a refreshed front end and slight updated rear. It's changes like this along with better marketing that would help the 380 achieve numbers they were aiming for. By the way, I still can't see production of the 380 stopping as it is still a very new model in the Australian market and even if they are currently running at a loss the potential of the vehicle is huge. After speaking to the folks at the Adelaide motor show and an updated 380 (well I'll call is S2 for now) is due later this year along with a performance 380 (most likely the Ralliart) released just before it. If the 380 S2 has the exterior changes people have commented on along with the interior/drivability features people have commented on to be added/altered on/to the 380 then the 380 will sell.

Oh, and to increase interest in the brand the only other car MMAL could produce would be the Eclipse. It looks fantastic, has great MIVEC engines available (2.4 and 3.8 both mivec) and has been the number one selling sports car in the US the last 15 odd years. If the Eclipse could be manufactured in Australia and had updates at the same time as the US model then Mitsubishi's Australian future could be slated. Possibly a combination of the Eclipse along with the Lancer could increase the capacity used at the factory and possibly employ more staff.

I also think it is important to keep the 380 though as MMC no longer have any other large RHD saloon manufactured across the globe and if MMC start thinking globally the 380 (along with a smaller engine) has enourmous export potential.

If mitsubishi brought back the 4 cylinder in the 380 as per the Magna it would seriously make them, but will they do it?

The amount of 4 cylinder magnas still on the roads from the early 90s is amazing!

I also think that the 380 VRX arse end should be across the entire range, as it certainly fixes the issues associated with the standard 380 bum.

Hate to nitpick but the Fairlane is actually the longest running name of all time it dates back to 1955, Falcon didnt come about until 1960.


Fairlane came from the name of henry frauds house/property. More useless info. lol :D

If mitsubishi brought back the 4 cylinder in the 380 as per the Magna it would seriously make them, but will they do it?

The amount of 4 cylinder magnas still on the roads from the early 90s is amazing!

I also think that the 380 VRX arse end should be across the entire range, as it certainly fixes the issues associated with the standard 380 bum.

Yeah, if the 4 cylinder engine option was available it would not only entice customers back to the Mitsubishi brand but give them a car that can compete in two different fields. Resale values would be 'protected' as demand for the product would increase as dealers wouldn't be forced to discount the 380 if it is in strong demand.

And I agree, there is still alot of Gen II Magna's on the roads most of which are 4 cylinders and to date are still reliable cars. If a 4 cylinder option of the 380 was available it would also be cheaper (ie. starting at perhaps $28k in manual) and would give consumers a greater choice when looking for large 4 cylinder sedans (the Mazda 6 and Camry is just about it).

As for the rear end ... i'm not sure. I think that the VR-X and GT should have the rear end but perhaps change the globes to LEDs (this wouldn't cost that much to do either). The other models could get a rear end similar to the VR-X/GT (with the clear light covers) but instead, make them red (red and clear). An example of a car that has this would be the Mazda 3 (in Neo and SP23 form), hence the lights are very similar but one model has them red (Still clear) and one has them grey. If they could have this arrangement on the lights it would lighten up the appearance of the 380's rear end and give the car a better perception on the road. In fact, I feel very confident the MMAL will change the tail lights on the 380 (non VRX/GT) when they are updating (possibly S2, as noted in other reply) it towards the end of this year.

Hmm...

Some of us got bagged for saying that we thought the 380 wasnt what it should have been..

Personally I think Mitsubishi's marketing department must be extremely broke, I havent seen any commercials for the 380 for months, and the few I did see were extremely poor..

I actually really like the VRX, its no XR6 or SV6 but really its a class of its own, runs rings around the Camry, Maxima and Accord, and ofcourse its Australian Built. .

bahahahaha you wonder why; i think the only way the xr6 or sv6 are ahead of the 380 is in a straight line; i love the way you dismiss one of the most reliable cars ever built (camry), the cars with the nices interior i've seen in a car under 60k (accord). God the interior is no comparison in the falcons and the commodores not much better. Also i dont doubt how well made the maxima is; it's a nissan.... pity it's ugly as though...

From an engineering stand point i'll back the other cars in terms of reliability, fuel efficiency and build quality any day of the week. You represent a stand point in australia which is quite popular; a badge with strong roots in this country and power in a striaght line; most people care about the overall car and don't like getting 18l/100km's in which you kept saying was a car that pissed on the 380 and thats why we didnt like your opinion on this magna forum.

Personally i'd love an xr8, and i love the ss' but the other cars are lame for how everyone talks about them.

And as for the Maxima selling well, think agian in December only 185 of them were sold and even now the only sell around 300 a month. The Maxima's interior is very nice, but is starting to show it's age (I like the 380 LX's better!)

The Accord is a different story. Beautiful interior but lacks some features (still has some the 380 doesn't, such as ESP and curtain airbags, Xenon [low beam] headlights, etc.). Such a pity they don't put the V6 in the Accord Euro, build quality is very good but not perfect though. Honda's warranty isn't the longest either. Thing I really like about the Accord and Accord Euro though is that they have the indicator on the side mirror (looks hot) and they also use real woodgrain instead of that plastic crap and it really looks the part.

If Mitsubishi could adopt some Honda like features and put them into the 380 they could attract a new crowd of buyers. To do this all they really need to do is give it more features and offer a 4 cylinder engine.

And as for the Maxima selling well, think agian in December only 185 of them were sold and even now the only sell around 300 a month. The Maxima's interior is very nice, but is starting to show it's age (I like the 380 LX's better!)

The Accord is a different story. Beautiful interior but lacks some features (still has some the 380 doesn't, such as ESP and curtain airbags, Xenon [low beam] headlights, etc.). Such a pity they don't put the V6 in the Accord Euro, build quality is very good but not perfect though. Honda's warranty isn't the longest either. Thing I really like about the Accord and Accord Euro though is that they have the indicator on the side mirror (looks hot) and they also use real woodgrain instead of that plastic crap and it really looks the part.

If Mitsubishi could adopt some Honda like features and put them into the 380 they could attract a new crowd of buyers. To do this all they really need to do is give it more features and offer a 4 cylinder engine.

umm am i right in pointing out if they bring out a 4 cylinder it defeats the name "380"? unles they have a 3.8L 4Cyl:think:

bahahahaha you wonder why; i think the only way the xr6 or sv6 are ahead of the 380 is in a straight line; i love the way you dismiss one of the most reliable cars ever built (camry), the cars with the nices interior i've seen in a car under 60k (accord). God the interior is no comparison in the falcons and the commodores not much better. Also i dont doubt how well made the maxima is; it's a nissan.... pity it's ugly as though...

From an engineering stand point i'll back the other cars in terms of reliability, fuel efficiency and build quality any day of the week. You represent a stand point in australia which is quite popular; a badge with strong roots in this country and power in a striaght line; most people care about the overall car and don't like getting 18l/100km's in which you kept saying was a car that pissed on the 380 and thats why we didnt like your opinion on this magna forum.

Personally i'd love an xr8, and i love the ss' but the other cars are lame for how everyone talks about them.


Mate, sales speak for themselves... The Interior in the Falcon isn't of the same class as the Accord, but in saying that the Accords exterior isn't in the same league as the Falcon, nor is its engine, suspension or gearbox.

The Camry is nothing but a piece of crap, build quality is there but mechanically they are dated with very old technology, if you can put up with driving a Camry you could easily go back to driving an EL Falcon or a VS Commodore, they would have to be the most boring car I have ever driven, everything from the grandma gear stick to the big ass dials makes me wanna puke, theres nothing inspiring about owning one, unless you like lawn bowls and an instrument cluster you can read without wearing your glasses. The new model toyota is bringing out later in the year will however be a better car, but whether they can push this market like Holden and Ford will be another story.

As for the Falcon, it is the most sophisticated Australian Built car on the market at the moment, its the only one with a six speed auto, a Turbo variant not to mention all the other things it has over the competition. With the introduction of the VE later this year we will also see the Holden step up, im guessing that it will without a doubt be better then the current BF Falcon, but its 4 years newer so it really should be. Fords build quality isn't up there but its not far away, the amount of people complaining about later build BAs and now the BF has reduced considerably, things like brake shudder in the Early BA's were issues that gave the car a bad name.

Therefore wheres this going to leave the 380? A new Toyota model, the new VE, and also the introduction of the final BF Series II which will see the standard output of the XT Base falcon at 200 kw, up to 315 in the Performance models. Even if Mits do bring out the Rallyart Magna, where is it going to be positioned in this changing market? 200 Kw?

Mitsubishi should have released this car in 03, it should be on its 2nd year awaiting a facelift and output increase, its too far behind the competition...

Mate, sales speak for themselves...

The Camry is nothing but a piece of crap, build quality is there but mechanically they are dated with very old technology, if you can put up with driving a Camry you could easily go back to driving an EL Falcon or a VS Commodore, they would have to be the most boring car I have ever driven, everything from the grandma gear stick to the big ass dials makes me wanna puke.

As for the Falcon, it is the most sophisticated Australian Built car on the market, its the only one with a six speed auto, a Turbo variant not to mention all the other things it has over the competition. With the introduction of the VE later this year we will also see the Holden step up, im guessing that it will without a doubt be better then the current BF Falcon, but its 4 years newer so it really should be. Fords build quality isn't up there but its not far away, the amount of people complaining about later build BAs and now the BF has reduced considerably, things like brake shudder in the Early BA's were issues that gave the car a bad name.

Why are you even on this magna forum man? All you do is say how great your friggen fords are....you dont contribute anything towards a discussion besides tell us how mitsu will close down and the 380 isnt as fast ffs man

']Why are you even on this magna forum man? All you do is say how great your friggen fords are....you dont contribute anything towards a discussion besides tell us how mitsu will close down and the 380 isnt as fast ffs man

If some of you weren't retarded then you would know why I am here.

I have followed the 380 from its early days when Mits told us all they were going to produce the best ever Australian built car..

I would like to see Mitsubishi make slight changes to the range and the marketing of the car as i think its very underated when you look at its competition, which i must say ISNT the Falcon or Commodore, its just that everyone compares them coz they are "Aussie" built cars...

If some of you weren't retarded then you would know why I am here.

I have followed the 380 from its early days when Mits told us all they were going to produce the best ever Australian built car..

I would like to see Mitsubishi make slight changes to the range and the marketing of the car as i think its very underated when you look at its competition, which i must say ISNT the Falcon or Commodore, its just that everyone compares them coz they are "Aussie" built cars...

:upyours:gee never knew i was retarded

It should be noted that the BA was a make or brake car for ford in Australia. Much the same way as the next car mitsubishi produces of the line will be the make or brake car, not the current 380. It all banks on S2 380.

It should be noted that the BA was a make or brake car for ford in Australia. Much the same way as the next car mitsubishi produces of the line will be the make or brake car, not the current 380. It all banks on S2 380.

The 380 was a make or break car...

If it wasnt then im really ****ing confused with mitsubishi... :nuts:

It should be noted that the BA was a make or brake car for ford in Australia. Much the same way as the next car mitsubishi produces of the line will be the make or brake car, not the current 380. It all banks on S2 380.

Come on dude, that is a load of crap and you know it. The series 2 380 is the make or break? Pooolease... The CEO of the company said they would have to sell 2500 cars a month to survive their economics crisis. So far their average is under 1,000. The Mitsubishi 380, series 1 has always been the make or break for Mitsubishi. Atm it's leaning strongly towards break, as they are finding it difficult to sell even a 1000 cars a month consistently. If the Mitsubishi 380 isn't selling now with it's $29,990 limited edition price tag and bonuses, how on earth will the series 2 be any different? Where are Mitsubishi going to somehow find the money to make the Series 2 significantly better?

Why would consumers be willing to buy a series 2 380, when there are other new generations cars which will be on the market - Toyota Aurion and VE Commodore? Mitsubishi will sell less series 2 380s than they will series 1. If they couldn't sell them when there was little competition, I can't see how they will when there actually IS competition.

If you look back at history, for example the AU Falcon and how bad it was, then look at how much better the AU II Falcon was, (and it WAS a much better car), you will realise that once the "AU" got a bad name, it didn't matter whether it was series 1, 2 or 3, it stuck.

If you look back at recent Misubishi history with the TL Magna. The sales were terrible. People despised the front-end styling. Then came the TW. Mitsubishi hardly even tried to alter it. If car companys who actually DID have some money in these situations still couldn't overcome the effects of a new car with a bad reputation, I can't see how any company WITHOUT the money to spend, will release a car that is significantly different to the original in its second series, especially with its competitiors released all new generation cars.

The 380 was a make or break car...

If it wasnt then im really ****ing confused with mitsubishi... :nuts:

To be honest, I'm confused to why there are so many falcon owners in the 380 section, I mean does ford have shares in the car or somthing? lol


They can't back out for another 5 - 6 years due to government commitments and contracts. This basically means the next series 380 will be the make or break.

I mean really, tell me any new series car that the first model was a instant win?

You always have to look to Series two.

Mate, sales speak for themselves Hah, can't agree more, Toyota's number 1 position does speak for itself :D


The Camry is nothing but a piece of crap, but mechanically they are dated with very old technology..... That old technology which you speak of, in particular, the 3.0L 24 Valve DOHC, which our V6 Camry shares with the ES300, is producing 145kw (284NM) from a 3 litre, or 48.3KW/L (94.6 NM/L).

Standard Falcon produces 190kw (383NM) from a 4.0L (96NM/L), or 47.5KW/L.

So actually, for it's displacement, the 3.0L Camry engine is producing a little more kw (okay, well not very much, but you can get my point) - and all this is from an engine that dates back to 97 (pre 97 engine was essentially the same, but was iron block with dizzy - 97 model was alloy without).

Obviously, the Falcon produces more torque - what you would hope to expect from a straight 6, and considering the difference in bore x stroke of the Camry to the Falcon.

If you were however to tell me that the super-soft luxo lexus derived bowls club suspension was crap, and that the Camry lacked any sort of design flair or performance spirit, I would whole-heartedly agree with you. I just don't agree that the vehicle is mechanically crap.


its the only one with a six speed auto True, but only if you buy north from xr6 trim.


but its 4 years newer so it really should be. I disagree that the current falcon is only 4 years old - its really 7 - with the exception of the double wishbone rear suspension, the car is just a mid body facelift and engine updates on the AU, with the introduction of new engines - exactly the same sort of updates the vt-vz series has undergone.

Anyway, before I get shot down as a "toyota lover", I'd also wish to point out that if I was to buy a new large car tomorrow, it would be a turbo falcon. :D

Come on dude, that is a load of crap and you know it. The series 2 380 is the make or break? Pooolease... The Mitsubishi 380, series 1 has always been the make or break for Mitsubishi. Atm it's leaning strongly towards break, as they are finding it difficult to sell even a 1000 cars a month consistently. If the Mitsubishi 380 isn't selling now with it's $29,990 limited edition price tag and bonuses, how on earth will the series 2 be any different?


Oh yeah sorry, I just came on here to talk crap.

I'm entilted to my option, if you don't like it - go fly a kite.

To be honest, I'm confused to why there are so many falcon owners in the 380 section, I mean does ford have shares in the car or somthing? lol


They can't back out for another 5 - 6 years due to government commitments and contracts. This basically means the next series 380 will be the make or break.

I mean really, tell me any new series car that the first model was a instant win?

You always have to look to Series two.

Sadly the VT Commodore was always a hit from day one, even tho it was a dodgy disaster with recalls and build quality, ever man and his dog had to have one, things like power seats, driver key memory and the Supercharged V6 were why the VT was such a good seller!

Also Ash your opinion is valid, but in looking back at all the hype Tom Phillips had on this car and the media bull**** it really was the make or break for Mitsubishi. As for Tom Phillips hes the biggest loser in the automotive industry, he should have carried through the 380 for atleast the first six months of this car, he backed it, he should have stayed on... It seems the 380 had a lot against it before it even started, this guy walking away from the top position certainly didnt help its release...

Mate, sales speak for themselves... The Interior in the Falcon isn't of the same class as the Accord, but in saying that the Accords exterior isn't in the same league as the Falcon, nor is its engine, suspension or gearbox.

As for the Falcon, it is the most sophisticated Australian Built car on the market at the moment, its the only one with a six speed auto, a Turbo variant not to mention all the other things it has over the competition. With the introduction of the VE later this year we will also see the Holden step up, im guessing that it will without a doubt be better then the current BF Falcon, but its 4 years newer so it really should be. Fords build quality isn't up there but its not far away, the amount of people complaining about later build BAs and now the BF has reduced considerably, things like brake shudder in the Early BA's were issues that gave the car a bad name.

Mitsubishi should have released this car in 03, it should be on its 2nd year awaiting a facelift and output increase, its too far behind the competition...

Through the rwd the 10kw's won't make much difference a 190kw 380 will eat it in the straight line and as always around the corners; i'm happy for my ts v6 to demonstrat how nicely these cars handle or rav will in his 4cyl auto round the hill but saying that the 2nd gens are known to be quicker in the hills than the 3rd gens.

A sofisticated turbo car would not need 18l/100kms and the 6spd gearbox is imported which we all know. About the v6 euro it's made in mexico and they can only make good beer. I thought the ba had difficulties with the drivetrain ie diffs as the late model holdens have.

I'll agree the very tough stance of the xr6 sv6's is very appealing but it too is getting dated; 380 is new and quite different and i think mitsu are on a winner, as long as they keep on the ball.

The camry is a nice car faster than magna's cause of their lighter weight the sportivo versions hit a soft spot for some people; especially theyre hot hatches. Your points about the camry are similar for the base model 380 its ugly on 16' hub caps and riding like a boat but it's the model ive seen the most of by far.

I havent test driven a 380 yet but sitting in it and looking up close at the whole bits n pieces = mitsu for the win; plus the lancers will sell. 380 is not behind competition just not as fast in a straight line and doesnt have the airbags..... wait for s2.

ps this dude is knowledgable about falcons and some other stuff so ignore his obvious bias tuffy

peace out

hahahahahahahahahhahahaha love how sales increase radically by 40% and then 20% and people say it's dying; what was that 1200. MMMmmmmm i enjoy flying kites

As for Tom Phillips hes the biggest loser in the automotive industry, he should have carried through the 380 for atleast the first six months of this car, he backed it, he should have stayed on

Apparently he was very sick, and felt he could no longer continue at the helm, but looks like he's sprung back now onto bigger and better things.

Hah, can't agree more, Toyota's number 1 position does speak for itself :D

That old technology which you speak of, in particular, the 3.0L 24 Valve DOHC, which our V6 Camry shares with the ES300, is producing 145kw (284NM) from a 3 litre, or 48.3KW/L (94.6 NM/L).

Standard Falcon produces 190kw (470NM) from a 4.0L (117NM/L), or 47.5KW/L.

So actually, for it's displacement, the 3.0L Camry engine is producing a little more kw (okay, well not very much, but you can get my point) - and all this is from an engine that dates back to 97 (pre 97 engine was essentially the same, but was iron block with dizzy - 97 model was alloy without).

Obviously, the Falcon produces more torque - what you would hope to expect from a straight 6, and considering the difference in bore x stroke of the Camry to the Falcon.

If you were however to tell me that the super-soft luxo lexus derived bowls club suspension was crap, and that the Camry lacked any sort of design flair or performance spirit, I would whole-heartedly agree with you. I just don't agree that the vehicle is mechanically crap.

True, but only if you buy north from xr6 trim.

I disagree that the current falcon is only 4 years old - its really 7 - with the exception of the double wishbone rear suspension, the car is just a mid body facelift and engine updates on the AU, with the introduction of new engines - exactly the same sort of updates the vt-vz series has undergone.

Anyway, before I get shot down as a "toyota lover", I'd also wish to point out that if I was to buy a new large car tomorrow, it would be a turbo falcon. :D

Cough cough, read what i have to say, Toyota is number 1 with build quality, as for sales im basing those on local produced cars, not brands.

As for the Ford only being a mild update, pull your finger out of your ass.

the BA was a completely NEW car asside from door skins, the driveline was redeveloped, new engines, completely new body and roofline, completely new interior, and so on. The VX to VY was only a front and rear minor touch up, no gearbox mods, no engine upgrades, no interior upgrades asside from dash, the seats were identical aswell as door trims, the roof line was identical.

Im not here to tell people the rights and wrongs of the automotive industry, but at the end of the day I do happen to know my **** and personally I think the 380 is the best car in its class, up against the Camry V6 especially, its more dynamic, its quicker and it even looks 100 times better.. It just seems there should be more work done in promoting the car...

Through the rwd the 10kw's won't make much difference a 190kw 380 will eat it in the straight line and as always around the corners; i'm happy for my ts v6 to demonstrat how nicely these cars handle or rav will in his 4cyl auto round the hill but saying that the 2nd gens are known to be quicker in the hills than the 3rd gens.

A sofisticated turbo car would not need 18l/100kms and the 6spd gearbox is imported which we all know. About the v6 euro it's made in mexico and they can only make good beer. I thought the ba had difficulties with the drivetrain ie diffs as the late model holdens have.

I'll agree the very tough stance of the xr6 sv6's is very appealing but it too is getting dated; 380 is new and quite different and i think mitsu are on a winner, as long as they keep on the ball.

The camry is a nice car faster than magna's cause of their lighter weight the sportivo versions hit a soft spot for some people; especially theyre hot hatches. Your points about the camry are similar for the base model 380 its ugly on 16' hub caps and riding like a boat but it's the model ive seen the most of by far.

I havent test driven a 380 yet but sitting in it and looking up close at the whole bits n pieces = mitsu for the win; plus the lancers will sell. 380 is not behind competition just not as fast in a straight line and doesnt have the airbags..... wait for s2.

ps this dude is knowledgable about falcons and some other stuff so ignore his obvious bias tuffy

peace out

hahahahahahahahahhahahaha love how sales increase radically by 40% and then 20% and people say it's dying; what was that 1200. MMMmmmmm i enjoy flying kites

Front wheel drive beat RWD around corners??

Hello go drive some RWD cars then make your comparison. 190 kw in a 380 will be quicker then a 190 in the Falcon, being front wheel drive displacement at the wheels is going to be much higher, but i seriously couldnt see a 380 (yes ive driven a VRX and a stocko) out handling my XR6 Turbo around corners, they are too high to start with and theres too much body roll...

For your information my XR6 T only uses 12 litres per hundred on highway getting thrashed and 14 around the city, your 18 / 100 figure is what a V8 2 tonne GT will give you around town...

As for your 1200 sales, thats about 1300 down on what it should realistically be... At this stage of the model it should be at 3000+ a month as its brand new and at the best of its life cycle, plus the intial orders would have been filled and dealers should have been starting to get excess stock, whereas now they have 3 months worth of stock and no where to park them..

The 380 was Mitsubishi's make or break car. Series 1, series 2, blah blah blah, they are all 380's...



Standard Falcon produces 190kw (470NM) from a 4.0L (117NM/L), or 47.5KW/L.

So actually, for it's displacement, the 3.0L Camry engine is producing a little more kw (okay, well not very much, but you can get my point) - and all this is from an engine that dates back to 97 (pre 97 engine was essentially the same, but was iron block with dizzy - 97 model was alloy without).


actually the Falcon has 383Nm torque, not 470Nm (you might of been thinking the turbo).
So 95.8Nm/L, very close to the Camrys figure.

Oh and the Camry has 141kW. Avalon has same engine with 145kW (Im not a Toyota expert so dont know exactly what makes the extra 4kW but i know its a minor tweak).

The 380 was Mitsubishi's make or break car. Series 1, series 2, blah blah blah, they are all 380's...


actually the Falcon has 383Nm torque, not 470Nm (you might of been thinking the turbo).
So 95.8Nm/L, very close to the Camrys figure.

Oh and the Camry has 141kW. Avalon has same engine with 145kW (Im not a Toyota expert so dont know exactly what makes the extra 4kW but i know its a minor tweak).

Correct, and the Camry is still a slow piece of ****.

Couldnt careless what anyone says, the current V6 Camry offers drivers nothing more then a point A to point B experience, if you chose the correct road ull be content, but for my 34 k id prefer a 380 VRX with leather and sunroof :badgrin:

Sadly the VT Commodore was always a hit from day one,

Yeah I know. It's amazing how people seem to forget. Honestly, some people on these forums are delirious, to the point where they have tunnel vision and memory loss.

Just to name a few:

VN Commodore - wheels car of the year, instant sales winner
VT Commodore - wheels car of the year, instant sales winner
TE Magna - wheels car of the year, instant sales magnet - yes Mitsubishi DID get it right here.

The question of whether the series 1 380 or the series 2 380 is the make or break is actually not an opinion - it's objective not subjective. If it was, I would acknowledge it. When the CEO of a company goes out and says this is the make or break for our company (the only person who truely knows whether or not the 380 is a make or break for Mitsubishi is the CEO and CFO), when the media confirms the CEO's statement, when intuition, and logic says it is, when the reality of Mitsubishi's financial crisis dictate that it HAS to be the make or break for Mitsubishi, it is. If Mitsubishi don't make enough money from the series 1 380, there will be no series 2 380. They have spoken. Companies go broke all the time. The fact that you have a 6 year government contract is irrelevant if company goes broke - you can't receive a payment from someone who is bankrupt.

The Mitsubishi 380 is a good car, I have driven it and think it's the best N/A 6 cylinder family sedan on the market without a doubt. The problem is not the car, it's the company. If it was a Holden 380 it would sell like hotcakes. Why? Because Holden have taken the time and spent the money in all the right places to create a reputation desirable to Australian buyers. Holden know how to market their products. Anyone remember the original, "love the road" Mitsubishi 380 ad? That no doubt played a big part in it's dissapointing start. I remember the Mitsubishi sales manager cringing when I reminded him of it.

As for the Ford only being a mild update, pull your finger out of your ass.

the BA was a completely NEW car asside from door skins, the driveline was redeveloped, new engines, completely new body and roofline, completely new interior, and so on. The VX to VY was only a front and rear minor touch up, no gearbox mods, no engine upgrades, no interior upgrades asside from dash, the seats were identical aswell as door trims, the roof line was identical.


I did say VT to VZ - whereby the commodore has had new engines and new interiors, and in some cases, new drivetrain not VX to VY.

BA was not entirely new - it was the car the AU should have been - the items your listing is what can easily be considered a mid life enhancement, I didn't call it mild, I called it a mid life enhancement.

Just happens to be one where exterior body panels were changed, new interior, new transmission, new rear suspension and new drivelines and electronics were installed. Underneath the car though, in it's core architechture, its still an AU.

Correct, and the Camry is still a slow piece of ****.

well in a straight line one could argue it should be faster than my TE (which has run 15.15), considering they have more power, more torque, and less weight. A 1999/2000 model camry im talking about.
That is barely, if anything, slower than a BA XR6, which is 6 years newer......so who are you calling slow now? :doubt:

actually the Falcon has 383Nm torque, not 470Nm (you might of been thinking the turbo).So 95.8Nm/L, very close to the Camrys figure.
Was Thinking of the xt v8, good pickup.

well in a straight line one could argue it should be faster than my TE (which has run 15.15), considering they have more power, more torque, and less weight. A 1999/2000 model camry im talking about.
That is barely, if anything, slower than a BA XR6, which is 6 years newer......so who are you calling slow now? :doubt:
15.15 out of a stock magna, bring it on..

my xr6 does 13.80's so good luck keeping up with me..

Yeah I know. It's amazing how people seem to forget. Honestly, some people on these forums are delirious, to the point where they have tunnel vision.

Just to name a few:

VN Commodore - wheels car of the year, instant sales winner
VT Commodore - wheels car of the year, instant sales winner
TE Magna - wheels car of the year, instant sales magnet

The question of whether the series 1 380 or the series 2 380 is the make or break is actually not an opinion - it's objective not subjective. If it was, I would acknowledge it. When the CEO of a company goes out and says this is the make or break for our company, when the media says the same, when intuition, and logic says it is, when the reality of Mitsubishi's financial crisis dictate that it HAS to be the make or break for Mitsubishi, it is. If Mitsubishi don't make enough money from the series 1 380, there will be no series 2 380. Companies go broke all the time. The fact that you have a 6 year government contract is irrelevant if company goes broke - you can't receive a payment from someone who is bankrupt.

I highly doubt Mitsubishi will go broke, yes MMAL will become un profitable, but MMAL failure cannot send MML broke. Having said that, it is actually more finacialy viable for MML to operate the business in Australia for the next 3 - 4 years rather than back out and have to pay the government back its line of credit.

I don't have too much confidence in the future on MMAL, but I still stand by my comment that the verdict on the car will ride on sales figures at the end of this year, which will see us through to 380 S2.

Oh and give the name calling and attacting a miss, its really childish, I'm just giving my opinion.

Front wheel drive beat RWD around corners??

Hello go drive some RWD cars then make your comparison. 190 kw in a 380 will be quicker then a 190 in the Falcon, being front wheel drive displacement at the wheels is going to be much higher, but i seriously couldnt see a 380 (yes ive driven a VRX and a stocko) out handling my XR6 Turbo around corners, they are too high to start with and theres too much body roll...

For your information my XR6 T only uses 12 litres per hundred on highway getting thrashed and 14 around the city, your 18 / 100 figure is what a V8 2 tonne GT will give you around town...

As for your 1200 sales, thats about 1300 down on what it should realistically be... At this stage of the model it should be at 3000+ a month as its brand new and at the best of its life cycle, plus the intial orders would have been filled and dealers should have been starting to get excess stock, whereas now they have 3 months worth of stock and no where to park them..

yep i've driven plenty and a driver can control understeer too. How heavy is the falcons sv6 and 380??

Dont know if you live in a colder climate (huge differences esp in turbos; i know u know that) but aquaintances in qld have averaged 18l driving normally if their nice 15l yeah i live in brissy so mostly city; your 12l/100 on highway is actually quite high; i get 7.89l/100kms highway.

I don't do marketing so i couldnt tell you but am maths nerd so 20% increases are quite large we'll see how it maxes out; i'll admit theyre selling on word of mouth at the moment but they'll be sucessful as mmal has put the effort in

15.15 out of a stock magna, bring it on..

my xr6 does 13.80's so good luck keeping up with me..
thats either from an XR6T, or a heavily modified XR6, which isnt a very fair comparison now is it?
14 second quarters have been acheived by numerous DEAD STOCK 3.5L manual magnas from these forums. Mines only a lil 3.0L engine so not so easy for me. But the only mods being muffler and DIY CAI.

But my point is that a manual camry will provide competition against manual falcons and commodores, people like you are just too stubborn to even think its possible that a "grandma" car can even come close to your big ol Ford.

I think you will find the Camrey will flog the falcon stock V stock. The Camrey is a much more sofisticated car compaired to the falcon and I have driven both cars before.

I think you will find the Camrey will flog the falcon stock V stock. The Camrey is a much more sofisticated car compaired to the falcon and I have driven both cars before.

To prevent name calling, can you confirm whether or not you think the FWD 145kw, 284Nm 3L Camry will "flog" the RWD 190kw, 383Nm 4L Falcon, both with manual transmission?

To prevent name calling, can you confirm that you think the FWD 145kw, 284Nm 3L Camry will "flog" the RWD 190kw, 383Nm 4L Falcon, both with manual transmission?

Think being the opritive word, I'm no expert, but have driven both cars and I'm telling you what I think. Have I put each car side by side down the quater? No.

My god, heaven forbid making a comment on these forums!

(Actaully correction - I've never driven the 190kw falcon - only the privious AU, if its 190 then I'd say it would walk over the Camrey)

Everyone who frequents this forum for long enough will know how dogedly determined i was to see the 380 succeed, and if anyone told me it couldn't then i would absolutely shoot them down in flames. I was about as loyal as they come to MMAL and i was positive they could produce a great car.

UNFORTUNATELY - MMAL where handicapped from the beginning. They had to build a new car based on an existing american design that was pretty fundamentally hopeless. They did a really good job with what they had to work with, but unfortunately they failed on 4 fundamental accounts.

1) styling - they didnt do enough to turn the boring looking US Gallant into something special
2) equipment levels - just not good enough, no curtain airbags or ESP was a major flaw considering the looming competition on the horizon (VE commodore, toyota aurion) and there was never anything new on the car that no one else had and made potential buyers go "ooh gee-wiz look at that!"
3) pricing - the base model is just far to expensive, it needed to be closer to the 30k mark. you cant ask commodore and falcon price for a car that isn't as big as the commodore and falcon, even if interior dimensions suggests it is as big, australians just won't buy it! They discount the thing to 29,990 and all of a sudden they start selling! FUNNY THAT!!!!
4) marking - just not good enough by a LONG shot.

The series II update may well start the sales moving again as will the inevitable discounts that will surely not be too far away, but then all of a sudden the 380 will fall into the major trap that magna could never escape, poor resale!

As someone said earlier, MMAL would be far better off trying to get MMC to agree to let them manufacture the new lancer for the australiasian and south east asian markets or something because unfortunately, despite the ripper engine and gearbox and fantastic suspension and brakes, the 380's a dud and it always was going to be. My blind faith just never allowed me to see it :(

what an entertaining read..
When you read all of this and have a bit of a read between the lines, you see that everyone is saying that the 380 is a fantastic car, but suffers from Mitsubishi's "grandma's car" image, and it's lack of ability to properly market it's car.
Even the ford guy (the other ford guy :) ) is saying the 380 is a great car, and he's still copping crap.@!! :)

All the aussue built cars have their strengths and weaknesses, and not every car will suit every buyer. The XR8's and SV8's appeal to the v8 RWD lovers (like myself), and the camry and 380's appeal to different types of people. the FWD 380 is a completely different car to the RWD falcon or commodore, and realyl they can't be directly compared against each other.
The 380 obviously wins on fuel economy, but the falcon wins on rwd skids. :-D

I love the new Falcons, but I also really like the 380. In fact in looking to replace our current vehicle the 380 is very high on the list, in fact maybe even higher than the falcon. The camry doesn't even enter in to the equation, seriously could anyone really see yourself driving a camry? or an avalon?? yeah not likely..

As for the argument on who is more technically advanced, well take your pick. the commodore is last, as it's just behind. The falcon has some funky suspension and one of the most sophisticated V8's in the world. The camry has an awesome v6, albeit under utilised, and the 380 has a SOHC? But hopefully maybe a DOHC mivec coming soon!
Different cars for different folks...

Damn I can crap on late at night..... lol

Wheels had the v6 Camry, in manual form, running a 8.4 0-100 and 16.1 400m, they gave the XT auto a 0-100 of 7.7 and a 15.5 400m.

Wheels had the v6 Camry, in manual form, running a 8.4 0-100 and 16.1 400m, they gave the XT auto a 0-100 of 7.7 and a 15.5 400m.

Yep as stated in my edit, I stand corrected.

To prevent name calling, can you confirm whether or not you think the FWD 145kw, 284Nm 3L Camry will "flog" the RWD 190kw, 383Nm 4L Falcon, both with manual transmission?
but but, can i name call?? can i call you intellectually challenged??

You seem to have forgotten to mention that the Falcon is 300, yes 300kg heavier than the Camry! (going by 2000 model Camry statistics which is the model i mentioned before). 300kg!!! quite an oversight there.

Which means the Falcon still has a better power to weight, but makes it a much more even contest.

also another of mitsubishi's failing was it tried to position the 380 directly against commodore and falcon, but it was never a car that could compete against those two. Its not the right size for a start, its also not the right image, and it has the wrong final drive position.

If 380 was offered in both V6 and 4 cyl guises and pitched against camry, mazda6, accord euro, subaru liberty (more realistic competitors) it may well have been a real success story

Think being the opritive word, I'm no expert, but have driven both cars and I'm telling you what I think. Have I put each car side by side down the quater? No.

My god, heaven forbid making a comment on these forums!


As long as you have driven both the 190kw Falcon and the 145kw Camry, which you have means i will respect your opinion. Saying so otherwise leaves a few question marks to your credibility. I haven't driven a new 3L manual Camry, so I can't say so myself. I always try to provide proven evidence to support objectively worded claims where possible and feasible rather than purely anecdotal / speculative evidence. The fact that you have done the same by at least driving both cars means I value your credibility (although I still strongly disagree that the new Camry is faster than the new Falcon :D ).

I haven't driven the stock BA, but I've driven a stock ba xr6T.
not that it's of any relevance, but I've never experienced mid corner grip under full throttle like in that car. The thing just launched out of corners.. It was better than a lot of japanese sports cars I've driven (with the exception of an R32 GTR, that was INSANE!). It made the car feel like a small sports car, so the new BA rear end is a winner. one of the best things about the BA.
So all those saying FWD handles better in the twisties, should take an XR6T for a spin. A great way to generate a huge smile. :D

As long as you have driven both the 190kw Falcon and the 145kw Camry, which you have means i will respect your opinion. Saying so otherwise leaves a few question marks to your credibility. I haven't driven a new 3L manual Camry, so I can't say so myself. I always try to provide proven evidence to support objectively worded claims where possible and feasible rather than purely anecdotal / speculative evidence. The fact that you have done the same by at least driving both cars means I value your credibility (although I still strongly disagree that the new Camry is faster than the new Falcon :D ).

I would suggest reading my edit and my responce to dave_au post.

I think it's time for a test drive day. :)
I volunteer to drive the stock falcon.
Ash you can grab the camry
and anyone up for the 380?

I don't think I can walk into a Toyota dealership and actaully keep a straight face when saying "I'm thinking of buying a Camry"

lol. yeah *refer to earlier post*
I agree..
maybe VP Vanquish could drive the camry, or even better, the Avalon... oooh...

I don't think I can walk into a Toyota dealership and actaully keep a straight face when saying "I'm thinking of buying a Camry"
hahahaha lol
Fair enough.

Just to clarify. Im not arguing that the Camry is a better car than another, or that it isnt bland. I am just saying that it is quicker than a lot of people give it credit for (in manual). Power (at the wheels) to weight ratio is the reason, which a lot of people overlook. Similar story with magnas. How else does my 140kW magna beat manual 182kW BA XT's (15.28sec 1/4 according to Wheels)

hahahaha lol
Fair enough.

Just to clarify. Im not arguing that the Camry is a better car than another, or that it isnt bland. I am just saying that it is quicker than a lot of people give it credit for (in manual). Power (at the wheels) to weight ratio is the reason, which a lot of people overlook. Similar story with magnas. How else does my 140kW magna beat manual 182kW BA XT's (15.28sec 1/4 according to Wheels)


I guess we will have to test it, I might have to aquire a camry next time I have to hire a car :)

hahahaha lol
Fair enough.

Just to clarify. Im not arguing that the Camry is a better car than another, or that it isnt bland. I am just saying that it is quicker than a lot of people give it credit for (in manual). Power (at the wheels) to weight ratio is the reason, which a lot of people overlook. Similar story with magnas. How else does my 140kW magna beat manual 182kW BA XT's (15.28sec 1/4 according to Wheels)

I think it's some because people can't drive. :) heheh.
Oh something about the falcon being a fat heffa would have something to do with it.
Seriously how heavy is it! even a 5 series beema is 200Kg lighter!
There is no reason for the Falcon to be so heavy.. *sigh*...

Which means the Falcon still has a better power to weight

That's right. Spit out the torque to weight ratio too. That is the most compelling :D

I'll pay the fact that the older model Camrys like yours are underrated in terms of straight-line performance. I have driven even 2.2L manual Camrys that were incredibly responsive for a 4. But then again even the stone-age 1988 VN Commodore is still fast in todays terms. Still munchs cars on the road today 18 years newer than it. Pity about the build quality of them though.

Speaking early in the post about the similarities of each Falcon series; I must comment that each vehicle from EL onwards in 4L guise will fit the same extractors, same rear muffler and same mid muffler (utes and 4wd exceptions).

It's just like touring cars, same mechanicals just different body. Btw, are the Holden teams still using Ford diffs??

Anyone know how many 380s previously manufactured and produced are still in surplus?

I think it's some because people can't drive. heheh.
Oh something about the falcon being a fat heffa would have something to do with it.
Seriously how heavy is it! even a 5 series beema is 200Kg lighter!
There is no reason for the Falcon to be so heavy.. *sigh*...

**** is that right? My dad has a '98 model 540i and that car is loaded with kit and feels top solid in terms of build quality. I'd take it that the new 5 series is heavier then the old e39 series but maybe it's not due to use of allumium, etc. But, if the falcon is heavier then the new 5 series then that is a cause for concern. Tomorrow go to your ford dealer, hop into a Falcon and then go to adelaide motors (or your local BMW dealer or a place that has a 2004-current used 5 series) and go an sit in it. You tell me which car is bigger in the inside. I've been in both the new 5 and a BA (not a BF) and the 5 is much better built and you would suspect to be a heavier car due to its large size and RWD platform, but strangely (somehow) the Falcon is still heavier... especially when you think of how much more kit the 5 series has aswell, you'd think it would be 400kgs over the falcon... but its not ----- doesn't make sense :nuts:

That's right. Spit out the torque to weight ratio too. That is the most compelling :D

I'll pay the fact that the older model Camrys like yours are underrated in terms of straight-line performance. But then again so is the 1988 VN Commodore. Still munchs new cars on the road today. Pity about the build quality of them though.

munch? You are right about the build quality of the VN's, but I'm not so sure about them "munching" new cars... They are certainly not quick around corners and my girlfriends NA silvia is quicker to 80, and it's by no means a quick car...

That's right. Spit out the torque to weight ratio too. That is the most compelling :D

2000 Camry Conquest V6 Manual
1406kg/141kW = 9.97kg/kW
1406kg/279Nm = 5.04kg/Nm

2006 Falcon XR6 manual
1707kg/190kW = 8.98kg/kW (11% better than the Camry)
1707kg/383Nm = 4.45kg/Nm (13% better than the Camry)

So not too much difference between power and torque ratios (2%). Not that compelling...

P.S. i dont drive a camry :nuts:

munch? You are right about the build quality of the VN's, but I'm not so sure about them "munching" new cars... They are certainly not quick around corners and my girlfriends NA silvia is quicker to 80, and it's by no means a quick car...

We're talking the first of the VNs here. Remember the neck-snapping VN Commodores first built back in 1988 before they toned it down? Neck-snapping I'll tell ya. Had a better 0-100kmh time than the V8 VN Commodores. But who trys to munch a car around a corner anyway? Straights dude, straights.

ahh yeah my bad I was referring to the E39. It's surprisingly light..
Not sure on the new ones, but I would think they would be over 1800kg?
hmm just looked it up,, the new 5 series (545) is 1700kg..
the 2003 BA Xr8 is 1739 kg.. so it's still a heavyweight...

Oh, and back on the 380. If Mitsubihi are really smart they'd get the new all-alloy 4 cylinder out of the upcoming (released in japan and NZ) outlander which produces 127kw. Tweak it up to around 135-140kw, put in the 380 and offer a 380 with a 240 badge on it. This would sell like cakes (maybe hotcakes, we'd have to wait and see), give mitsu the ability to have a car in two different segments just because of the engine give it a combined economy around 8.5-9litres/100km when coupled to the 5 speed auto and if they are really really smart they could even get the INVECS III 6 speed Auto (CVT) for the four cylinder which would see fuel consumption drop to around 8/100km if not lower. In a time where the media has scared everyone about fuel prices it would be a perfect time to drop the engine into the Australian 380.

. But who trys to munch a car around a corner anyway? Straights dude, straights.


Lifes pretty stright without twistys - I can't stand straight line racing.

We're talking the first of the VNs here. Remember the neck-snapping VN Commodores first built back in 1988 before they toned it down? Neck-snapping I'll tell ya. Had a better 0-100kmh time than the V8 VN Commodores. But who trys to munch a car around a corner anyway? Straights dude, straights.

yeah the v6's of that era were all quicker than the v8's. look at the falcons. straight 6 that whopped the 8's in a straight line (and around corners).
Straights are great fun, no doubt. I have a very fast straight line car, but it's more fun when it's fast in a straight line AND around corners.. Especially if it's sideways.. heheh :badgrin:

Oh, and back on the 380. If Mitsubihi are really smart they'd get the new all-alloy 4 cylinder out of the upcoming (released in japan and NZ) outlander which produces 127kw. Tweak it up to around 135-140kw, put in the 380 and offer a 380 with a 240 badge on it. This would sell like cakes (maybe hotcakes, we'd have to wait and see), give mitsu the ability to have a car in two different segments just because of the engine give it a combined economy around 8.5-9litres/100km when coupled to the 5 speed auto and if they are really really smart they could even get the INVECS III 6 speed Auto (CVT) for the four cylinder which would see fuel consumption drop to around 8/100km if not lower. In a time where the media has scared everyone about fuel prices it would be a perfect time to drop the engine into the Australian 380.


240 has a nice ring to it. Just like 380T :)

ahh yeah my bad I was referring to the E39. It's surprisingly light..
Not sure on the new ones, but I would think they would be over 1800kg?
hmm just looked it up,, the new 5 series (545) is 1700kg..
the 2003 BA Xr8 is 1739 kg.. so it's still a heavyweight...

Still though 1700kg for the new 5 series (particuarly the 545i) is quite light. The car has so much kit in it you would expect it to way more; and, the car itself is larger then the falcon. So why the falcon still weighs more is questionable. And 245kw from a 4.5litre V8 is also very good, along with 10.6/100km is very impressive. My dad loves beemers and in a few years when the e60 hits around $50k he'll get one, unlike his current beemer though I think he'll get a 6 as he drove a 330i and reckons the power is good enough so yeah a 530i will be it.

240 has a nice ring to it. Just like 380T :)

hmm maybe 240TT AWD.. :shock:

Does mitsubishi has access to a diseal engine?

240TD - first aussie 4 door car to come with the unsupassed economy of TD.

the e39 540's are starting to come in to the affordability range now.
think about $35k for a 5 year old 5 series or a brand new Aussie built car..
looking at what the 540 has (great performance, luxury, fuel economy and build quality) makes it a very big contender!

Does mitsubishi has access to a diseal engine?

240TD - first aussie 4 door car to come with the unsupassed economy of TD.

That would be a very smart move I think.. Just look at the growing popularity of the Puegeot Turb Diesels, etc.. Awesome fuel economy and they aren't that slow either!
If mitsu could market something like that, I think it would be a winner...

I have a very fast straight line car, but it's more fun when it's fast in a straight line AND around corners.. Especially if it's sideways.. heheh :badgrin:

I guess when you have an old Commodore it's either straight line action or sideways action, there's no in between. :bowrofl: Get me in an AWD Magna, WRX or EVO and I'll find the happy medium. Until then it's straight line for me or straight to the insurance company. lol Maybe that's why I've never been in an accident. Never really thought about racing at 80km/h + around corners... hmmmm....nah.....on second thoughts the glovebox might fall out. You never know what will fall off in an old Commodore at those speeds. :P

240 has a nice ring to it. Just like 380T

If they got really smart they could also offer a performance 4 in the 240? A 240T (or maybe a 240 ralliart) which could pump out say 160-170kw. They could brag on about how its performance is on par with a 6 and sell it for around $40k. If they can get they're act together and get the 4 available here as well they could potentially be selling more then double what they're selling at the moment (the 240, in reality, will probably sell in greater number then the 380 say split 60/40 until peoples wages increase and fuel prices settle a bit). So say a total of 2500+ sales figure for a month for the 240/380 would bring MMAL above profit levels, employ more people, move more stock and allow them to invest in future models/upgrades.

And if profit is sustainable MMC have stated that the tonsley park facility could play a larger role on a world scale for MMC products, once again meaning further jobs. If 2500 cars a month is working around 50% capacity the plant could gain greater profit off the plant by producing another model. If the 240 fills this spot, good on it, but if not the RHD Eclipse or the next gen RHD Lancer could fill this spot.

And yeah 380T sounds nice.

As for diesel engines Mitsu use a Pegueot unit in the new Triton (L200) and also in the european version of the Grandis. If they could get that in the 380 and call the car a 240TD or something (if they make it in a series of models they will have to call it a 240 followed by the LX, VRX, etc. and have the TD badge on the otherside of the boot or something or call it a 240VRXtd [you make a name for it plz]). But yeah that would be great and would probably achieve fuel economy of like 6l/100km!

And if MMC started thinking more globally Mitsubishi could become a more 'European' manufacture as they could offer a variety of engines for the same car. MMAL would sell a sh&t load more cars considering the following engines are available:
-current 3.8litre = 175kw
-all alloy MIVEC 3.8 = 192kw
-all alloy MIVEC 3.0 = 170kw (as per upcoming outlander)
-all alloy MIVEC 2.4 = 127kw (as per upcoming outlander)
-Turbo Diesel Pegueot unit ~ 100kw (in euro triton and Grandis).

If they could have all these engine options it could also compete with may other cars considering the options it gives consumers and I have no problem in saying that if the prices were relative to what the current 380 is they would be selling 3,000+ cars a month.

anyway i'm going to bed---g/night!

Question is they've got themselves in a bit of a dilemma. How do they introduce new engines with the 380 name? Will they make a Mitsubish 380, Mitsubishi 300, Mitsubishi 240 etc? I don't think it's economically viable unless they do it to all their models like Lancer etc and have the system 100% numerical. They lose goodwill and brand recognition if they do that, especially from the Lancer which is probably the only car they have with a truely solid reputation. Alternatively they could use 380 for all the different engines, but it wouldn't sound or seem right.

My mum has a 98 Camry 2.2 4cyl 5sp and yes it's a very responsive drive where the performance belies the cars size and engine capcity. The suspension rides like a magic carpet and with less body roll compared to my Magna. In fact, apart from a old Jag and BA I drove once, the Camry is the best riding car I've been in.

The build and plastics quality is lightyears ahead of the EL and VS (just hop into all 3 and it's instantly obvious) and its cabin is hush hush.:shhhh: This why I'm amazed to read that somebody further back in this thread stated that the Camry was inferior to a EL and VS.

I've driven a number of V6 examples (including my mates) and whilst not very torquey, they love to rev and are super smooth. If I remember correctly, a 97/98 model 5sp posted a high 7 sec 0-100 time in Wheels.

I'll agree that stylistically speaking, its a bland car and the 02-current model has definitely taken a step back in my opinion. But see past that and it's a good quality drive. I almost bought one and still would consider a 98-02 model down the track. But the Magna first caught my eye when the TE was released so I had to have a 3rd gen first.

PS: I'm not trying to start an argument but thought I had to defend the Camry because it was copping a bit of, I feel, undeserved criticism.

Cant understand what people actually see in the Camry..

The 380 is miles ahead of the camry, even the stock 380 is, atleast it comes with 16 inch wheels and a decent gearbox / engine..

Toyotas are good for people who buy a new car every 15 years, for the rest of us they are nothing but piles of crap..

Speaking early in the post about the similarities of each Falcon series; I must comment that each vehicle from EL onwards in 4L guise will fit the same extractors, same rear muffler and same mid muffler (utes and 4wd exceptions).

It's just like touring cars, same mechanicals just different body. Btw, are the Holden teams still using Ford diffs??

Holden and Ford use the same diffs built by Dana. Both have issues with them to, I have a feeling that Ford are using someone else for the BF now...

As for your comments on the Extractors / Exhaust, that is incorrect, the BA has a completely different exhaust setup to the AU due to the change in IRS aswell as the fact that the fuel tank is in front of the rear axel (for safety purposes).

Holden and Ford use the same diffs built by Dana. Both have issues with them to, I have a feeling that Ford are using someone else for the BF now...

As for your comments on the Extractors / Exhaust, that is incorrect, the BA has a completely different exhaust setup to the AU due to the change in IRS aswell as the fact that the fuel tank is in front of the rear axel (for safety purposes).
Ok, ive gotten through most of this thread and im quite annoyed at most of you.

The original topic is about Production starting up again and its turned into a Ford VS Holden VS Mitsu 380 is gonna die yet again thread.

Those of you who are here to go on and on about the demise of Mitsu and how its 'O so sad" and the Ford/Holden/Kia Sportage whatever is better.. **** OFF!

Ive had enough of the amount of emails/PM's and general reported threads from those of you here who have no vested interest in a 380 or magna. If you cant contribute to this forum in any other way but negatively, then you will be finding it difficult to log in here.