So, I wanted to know what you guys have in mind.

Like, which brands are good, and how much money should I be paying, if I was looking for a respectable sub?

http://www.doranproaudio.com.au/products/detail.asp?prodID=782
These babies go very very very hard.

Ouch*

I can see why they go hard.

JL is a really good brand from what Ive heard. And expensive too!

I guess the price is justified by the quality.

Ouch*

I can see why they go hard.

JL is a really good brand from what Ive heard. And expensive too!

I guess the price is justified by the quality.
lol i was being stupid mate.
Give us a price range.
From 0-100 you're probably looking at pioneer. Clarion maybe as well but stay away from kenwood.
100-200 there is a HUGE variety.
250-300 upwards starts getting you into the lower end of the serious subs. I have dual MTX thunders that are RRP $300 or something like that and they are very good.

im looking to upgrade my sub. i find that my pioneer 305c 12" is abit slow for hard techno and drum n bass beats, what would be the best setup to go for? possibly 2 x 10" ? what brands?

(sorry this isnt a thread mine smap, i rekon its relavent to your sub choice aswell!! :D)

i have an Alpine type R (SWR-1242D) , powered by a alpine monoblock (MRD-M605) , in an alpine box, its for sale for $999.00 i am ver happy with it and sounds really good.

http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/incredible-60-inch-subwoofer

Or if you're not quite into 60 inch subs that will kill you and pulverise your body when you turn it on, this should do well:
http://www.cardomain.com/item/ABNAWT34

I guess my price range will be in the $200-300 range.

*Oh, btw, why should I stay away from kenwood?

Wow, that cardomain link, that sub pictured, the price they are asking is crazy.

Although, im not so savvy with my audio knowledge that seems like a mansion compared with a 1 bedroom flat.

I guess my price range will be in the $200-300 range.

*Oh, btw, why should I stay away from kenwood?
Hmmm MTX are pretty good in that price range. Alpine should have something decent in that price range too.

Dunno about the pro ones, but the Kenwood cheaper subs are shizzer! They have piss poor voice coils that overheat easily.

I guess my price range will be in the $200-300 range.

*Oh, btw, why should I stay away from kenwood?

For Good techno beats, go for a sealed Box, not to sure on what works best here (size wise)

for lowww bass notes, 15"s cant be beat, specially for music like r'n'b

i have 2 x 12"s (ported) and i find they play lower notes very good and quite low, whereas for techno, its more of a booooooom boooooooom rather then a doof doof doof doof sound

Ah, ok.....

I'll stay away from Kenwood.

Is fusion or schneider any good?

or should I just stick with the well known ones, like, Alpine, Clarion...etc??

Im on the Alpine website, but I cant find the prices for the subs.....

Try:
www.strathfield.com

I think I might be settling on a JL audio Sub....

The 12WO-4 is the one im looking at.

By the way, is $500-600 to tight of a budget for a good respectable amp/sub combo?

on the alpine web site go to Catalogue

or just go here

http://www.alpine.com.au/promotions/Alpine-Summer-Catalogue-05.pdf

Thanks pete!

I would also sneek a peak at the Hertz ES range, DD 10xx range and Crossfires entry level woofers. :D

where, in sydney are you?

2x Soundstream XStream 12", ba-boom!

Hey Smap;

I take it that you are only looking for 1 sub in that price range? Then yes, I would go for a higher quality sub, Hertz would be a very good choice, as would the crossfires. Vibe Blackair's are good too, a bit more money however.

If you want two subs, I would not recommend anything at the $150-160max each range if you find the 305's too slow. The JBL's are better, but not enough to spend the money on them, change them over etc. It just isn't worth it the time, money or effort. You have to spend more to get the benefit.

What is your 305 in now? Sealed or ported box? Volume? Port tuning? What amp are you running behind it? What sort of gain? Got any SD i the car, and if so, what and where?

Basically, we may be able to change around the configuration of your system to make it better, without having to buy a whole heap of new equipment. While not the greatest sub, I am very impressed with them, although if you have them in the specified 35L box, I think it is way too big for them. Somewhere between 30-32L is about right, if you like your punchy bass, then 28-29L.

Unless you have enough power going through your sub, it will not hit as hard as you want it to as it needs to actually overcome the speaker's stiffness to start moving the cone. If you are only putting 200W into that sub, maybe the money would be better spend on a bigger/better amp instead.

Im in the fairfield area.

And...

Hmmmm Mitsi-monsta, I know you're helping, but I have no idea what you were saying in that post.

lol

Hmmmms

But is $500 too tight of a budget for a amp/sub???

And is that JL audio sub good??

If you do a bit of research into the way the box effects the sounds of the sub, you'll be doing yourself a massive favour. It might seem like there is alot to learn at the start and there is, but trust me when I say you'll never regret it.

For a start, just try googling some of the terms Monsta mentioned in his post.

Seriously... get in touch with FHRX and go for a drive down to the shire.
He has some nice boxes with subs in them you can just drop in your car and test out.

I think $700 would be pushing it for a decent sub and amp.... even a Jaycar 800wrms monoblock is going to cost you $399. That will give you 400W into a single voice coil sub like you have. Good match for the Pioneer Sub you already have.

Hence my suggestion on maybe just using the sub you already have and getting a bigger amp that will make the sub hit harder.

If you can, try and make it to the Centennial Park cruise at the end of the month, I will be happy to listen to your system, and I will be happy to try and tune it out better so you are getting the most of what you already have (that goes for anyone who thinks their system is out a bit). Also, I will know what you system cosists of, and can try to give you a better suggestion of what you could buy or do to make your system better for the smallest cash outlay possible.

The cruise details are in the NSW section.

Thanks for the help guys, especially Mitsi Monsta.

Ill do some googling as well, to read up on the stuff mentioned.

Btw, I dont have a Pioneer sub or any sub at the moment. Or even a amp.

I just have a new HU and thats about it.

Try to avoid Alpine if possible. It's terribly overpriced. MitsiMonsta knows his stuff and will help you get a good sounding system to suit your needs.

i dont know much about audio stuff, but when i was looking around i was told the price i got mine for was very good, i asked what they had in other brands for the same price and they said they couldn't do anything that would match it for the price and quality. and it does sound very good to me.


im sure there are brands out there for less. but i did already know the Type R was a good sub and was recomended the Alpine monoblock. since it came in a deal with a box as well it just seemed good to me.

but shop around and talk to as many people as you can.

DD 9915 :D

go DD..

i dont know much about audio stuff, but when i was looking around i was told the price i got mine for was very good, i asked what they had in other brands for the same price and they said they couldn't do anything that would match it for the price and quality. and it does sound very good to me.


im sure there are brands out there for less. but i did already know the Type R was a good sub and was recomended the Alpine monoblock. since it came in a deal with a box as well it just seemed good to me.

but shop around and talk to as many people as you can.
I'm not sayin Alpine isn't any good or havin a go at ya man. But Alpine gear is very overpriced, usually by at least double.

No wasn't saying you were having a go at me, just letting Smap know what i have been told. I am not sure what a 500+W Monoblock and And something = to a type R sub in a Box mad for the subis worth, but you have to be loking at around $700-$1000. unless you build your own box the cost heaps.

Thanks for the tips guys.

Yeh, I'll be searching around. Oh well, I sorta had my mind set on something Alpine (either the sub or amp) but now, seeing the responses, im not so sure.

For some reason I just like Alpine, although I havent even seen or heard how they perform. I just keep thinking about Alpine menthol cigarettes, which then makes me think of snow.


I guess thats not really a good reason for wanting to buy Alpine.....lol

But yes, thanks again everyone.

I'll be asking questions and doing some more researching.

Sorry smap, I got you confused with manifesto. Done too much overtime this week. My apologies. Manifesto... put them in a slightly smaller sealed box mate... if it is 35L/sub now, go for about 31-32L/Sub. Separate sealed chambers too.

Okay Smap, if you have nothing as yet, then what exactly do you have? Is it just the headunit? What brand and model?

Next I would need to know what music you like to listen to. This matters as certain brands are more suited to certain types of music. It has to do with how hard or soft the speaker's suspension is.

Then I would need a budget the absolute maximum you want to spend. Some people say "I want to spend $600" and they can actually spend $900 with another month's saving. It is almost always better to spend an extra 20% if you can, the improvement in the gear and sound quality of speakers just one level above entry level speakers is quite amazing.

If you can, come and see me on the cruise. Happy to have a look at what you have, it might show you what you can achieve on a limted budget.

For the record, my current low end recommendation is for 2x JBL GT1202 12" subs (dual 2ohm voice coils) in a dual-chamber sealed box of about 28 litres each chamber, maybe a bit less. That should cost you around the $250-$260 mark. Then add a Jaycar 800W monoblock amp - that takes the total to around $700. Keep in mind that you will need about $70 for a 4-guage power wiring kit, it may come with RCAs.

TUFF_TR purchased the same subs and amp, but went the ported route. His chambers are about 49 litres from memory. He is estatic with his system, and bought most of the items we suggested.

Sorry smap, I got you confused with manifesto. Done too much overtime this week. My apologies. Manifesto... put them in a slightly smaller sealed box mate... if it is 35L/sub now, go for about 31-32L/Sub. Separate sealed chambers too.

Okay Smap, if you have nothing as yet, then what exactly do you have? Is it just the headunit? What brand and model?

Next I would need to know what music you like to listen to. This matters as certain brands are more suited to certain types of music. It has to do with how hard or soft the speaker's suspension is.

Then I would need a budget the absolute maximum you want to spend. Some people say "I want to spend $600" and they can actually spend $900 with another month's saving. It is almost always better to spend an extra 20% if you can, the improvement in the gear and sound quality of speakers just one level above entry level speakers is quite amazing.

If you can, come and see me on the cruise. Happy to have a look at what you have, it might show you what you can achieve on a limted budget.

For the record, my current low end recommendation is for 2x JBL GT1202 12" subs (dual 2ohm voice coils) in a dual-chamber sealed box of about 28 litres each chamber, maybe a bit less. That should cost you around the $250-$260 mark. Then add a Jaycar 800W monoblock amp - that takes the total to around $700. Keep in mind that you will need about $70 for a 4-guage power wiring kit, it may come with RCAs.

TUFF_TR purchased the same subs and amp, but went the ported route. His chambers are about 49 litres from memory. He is estatic with his system, and bought most of the items we suggested.
Correction - Bought ALL Of the items You suggested:P
And yeah i think my box is about 50-55L per box could even be bigger, cant remeber now.

They Pump VERY VERY Hard and most people can't belive i got the whole system for Around 2K

Sorry smap, I got you confused with manifesto. Done too much overtime this week. My apologies. Manifesto... put them in a slightly smaller sealed box mate... if it is 35L/sub now, go for about 31-32L/Sub. Separate sealed chambers too.

Okay Smap, if you have nothing as yet, then what exactly do you have? Is it just the headunit? What brand and model?

Next I would need to know what music you like to listen to. This matters as certain brands are more suited to certain types of music. It has to do with how hard or soft the speaker's suspension is.

Then I would need a budget the absolute maximum you want to spend. Some people say "I want to spend $600" and they can actually spend $900 with another month's saving. It is almost always better to spend an extra 20% if you can, the improvement in the gear and sound quality of speakers just one level above entry level speakers is quite amazing.

If you can, come and see me on the cruise. Happy to have a look at what you have, it might show you what you can achieve on a limted budget.

For the record, my current low end recommendation is for 2x JBL GT1202 12" subs (dual 2ohm voice coils) in a dual-chamber sealed box of about 28 litres each chamber, maybe a bit less. That should cost you around the $250-$260 mark. Then add a Jaycar 800W monoblock amp - that takes the total to around $700. Keep in mind that you will need about $70 for a 4-guage power wiring kit, it may come with RCAs.

TUFF_TR purchased the same subs and amp, but went the ported route. His chambers are about 49 litres from memory. He is estatic with his system, and bought most of the items we suggested.

Thanks Mitsi Monsta.

As, for the headunit, its this one.

http://www.jvc-australia.com/products/_products_sub_group_details.asp?ID=1396

I'll take your suggestions into consideration.

Oh, what is your opinion of fusion?

Have you had any experiences from that brand? How do you think they perform?

imho fusion are good for SPL and not SQ ie they are very powerful/loud, but sound quality isnt so great

just throwing a few brands out there
image dynamics idq/idmax
digital designs 3512
Phoenix Gold Xmax
Boston G5
RE XXX
Adhire Audio Brahma
Diamond Audio TDX12

Maybe out of your price range but if you can get a listen to some of these it will give you a good idea of what a good sub is.

Generally best to put the money into one decent sub over 2 or more lesser subs. And then put the money into a bit more power/headroom behind it

']Correction - Bought ALL Of the items You suggested:P
And yeah i think my box is about 50-55L per box could even be bigger, cant remeber now.

They Pump VERY VERY Hard and most people can't belive i got the whole system for Around 2K
Mine doesn't go too bard distorts slightly, I got 2x type s 12"... oh yours cost ya 2k tuff tr, mine cost me a set of cadiance 6.5" lol....

sucks arse all ya can hear in mine when up slightly is the mirror rattling :'(

As, for the headunit, its this one.
http://www.jvc-australia.com/products/_products_sub_group_details.asp?ID=1396


Tha's a very decent HU. Excellent choice, and should last you a long while. It has got everything you need, and then some.

Fusion as Manifesto said, is leaning well into the SPL side if the market. The fusion subs I have heard, installed in mate's cars - that sort of thing - are all very loud once they have been given a decent amount of power, but the SQ is sadly lacking. They shake the car really well though, play very low frequencies compared to similar brands like Cadence which just don't seem to have that extra-low-down extension.

If you were wanting to get something close in the SPL stakes but with much much better SQ... I'd be leaning towards JL. A single 12" sub with a decent amount of power behind it might just be the answer you are looking for.

Another good one to look at is the new Hertz HXS300D, which RRP's at $460 but you should get it for less than that. One member here borrowed one for a little while, he was extremely impressed with it for the price. I all over really like Hertz, Really well suited to dance/trance/techno stuff.... which is what I listen to.

Time gave a few suggestions, but a number of those subs are over $1K each. As a CAASQ competitor, Tim really knows his high end stuff, but I cannot justify spending the sort of money that the gear he like costs. Not saying it is bad gear, just I have a family, and we are a one income household. My limit would be about $600/sub.... but I am always looking for a good price and better than average SQ and good SPL performance, while Tim is looking for outright SQ over everything else.

I do agree that with Tim in that it would be better to get one $600 sub than 2x $300 subs if you have more of an SQ goal than SPL. A better quality speaker should also be able to take more power, and have a similar SPL output as a result. But then again, I have always been a twin 12" subs in a sealed box kind of guy. I like my duals.

Tim gave a few suggestions, but a number of those subs are over $1K each. As a CAASQ competitor, Tim really knows his high end stuff, but I cannot justify spending the sort of money that the gear he like costs. Not saying it is bad gear, just I have a family, and we are a one income household. My limit would be about $600/sub.... but I am always looking for a good price and better than average SQ and good SPL performance, while Tim is looking for outright SQ over everything else.

I wasnt actually suggesting he go out and buy them, just to have a listen to show what a good sub is (the topic in question)

I totally understand it is a rip off spending heaps of money on car audio. Despite what you all might think, i dont spend that much on my gear, always shopping around and getting bargains.

Anyway have a listen to some of the above if you get a chance and put it all in perspective. The difference between a $100 sub might not be 10 times worse than a $1k sub. So best to arm yourself with knowledge beforehand

Peace

Tim

Just to thow another brand in the mix, go check out the Infinity line of subs...

I just gotz me a Kappa Perfect 12.1. This is a SQ based 12" subwoofer, but it also addresses the growing market for SPL type applications.

Standard price for this woofer is $500 however, I purchased it brand new at "WOW sight and Sound" for $350. I was very impressed with its specifications on paper, and ran the specs against different subs that are around the same price on "WINISD" (a sub box building program).
One major difference I see with this sub is it's excellent efficiency which is an amazing 96dB 1W/1M (albeit it is an incar figure which would roughly translate to around 91dB). Compare this with other brands that offer subs with efficiencies of only 85-89dB, which equates to around half the spl output per watt of input.

The Kappa Perfect 12.1, in its recommended sealed enclosure of 1.0cuft, can handle upwards of 500wrms, and in its recommended ported enclosure of 1.25cuft it take a whopping 750wrms. You can even run it in an infinite baffle situation up to 175wrms.. It's such a versatile sub!!!!

Also, when looking for a sub, look out for the Xmax figure. This will tell you ultimately how much extension the sub is physically capable of. The 12.1 has an Xmax of 14mm (one way) which is reasonably good.
Check them out at www.infinitysystems.com (http://www.infinitysystems.com/caraudio/products.aspx)

If you are after spl and SQ then I think this would make the perfect choice, and when shopping around for subs I would definately check the efficiencies of each type as part of your selection. The more power you are gonna need, the bigger the fuses, cabling, voltage drop issues and space for the amp. For myself, I wanted a system that could run at a decent sound output with the engine off, without worrying about getting a flat battery in minutes. I also wonder about the inherent hidden costs of some systems I hear getting around that need alternator upgrades to cope with bigger wattage systems....

go check out the Infinity line of subs...

Infinity = JBL = Harmon Kardon.

The lower end JBL's have a much higher sensitivity than most other subs too.

And yes Ben, they are good, just don't lose the hubcaps off them, or pour ink into them. You will get alot of enjoyment out of them that way. :bowrofl:

For some reason I really dont like those Kappa 12.1. I heard 2 of them running at full volume off about 600WRMS each and was very very disappointed at the volume and the sound that they made. I would rather a JBL, just personal I guess.

Its funny though, my G5 has an Xmax of 15mm and a 450WRMS voice coil and yet the Hertz HXS 300 has 2x 450WRMS coils and 10mm Xmax and the Hertz went harder off 600WRMS. Yes the Hertz has a sensitivity of 100db compared to 91db but dam!!!!

Are you after SPL or SQ or just a nice sounding sub that is LOUD lol

This may be a dumb question but....

Whats 'SPL' and 'SQ' mean?

Sound Pressure Level - in other words, F**K MY EARS HURT!
Sound Quality - In other words, ahhh sounds nice.

Im sure it can be explained better, But lol Thats all i know

I recently got an Infinity Kappa 10" sub running off an 800W MTX Monoblock amp and it pumps hard for a 10. I wanted the sharp responsive bass of a 10" opposed to the slightly more droney sound of a 12, so for me this sub is fantastic and seems to deliver great SPL (being very loud for a 10") and awesome SQ (clear, crisp bass) Only problem I seem to have with my system now is the standard Ralliart eclipse splits struggle when the volume gets up to about 26. Altho atm my 6x9's aren't working which i'll find out why tomorrow.

But anyway, Infinity are great. Harmon Kardon are a fantastic audio company.

For some reason I really dont like those Kappa 12.1. I heard 2 of them running at full volume off about 600WRMS each and was very very disappointed at the volume and the sound that they made. I would rather a JBL, just personal I guess.

Might have been some very bad settings on the system that you listened to, or possibly had been abused and the VC's were on the way out. While they will soak up quite a bit of power, they do have limits. I find they sound a bit better SQ wise than the normal base JBL's, just that little more accurate. Nowhere near any of the more favoured brands, and not within Cooee of the Bostons.

I'd still like a pair of 12" JBL GTi's.....:drool:


Its funny though, my G5 has an Xmax of 15mm and a 450WRMS voice coil and yet the Hertz HXS 300 has 2x 450WRMS coils and 10mm Xmax and the Hertz went harder off 600WRMS. Yes the Hertz has a sensitivity of 100db compared to 91db but dam!!!!

I still reckon you should have got a breeding pair of those HXS300's Charisma....I put the loudness down to higher sensitivity and DVC's. For what you get for their price, you'd have to agree they are best value mid-range high-output sub by quite a margin.

Whats a good sub?

Personally I liked the old Oberon class but if ya want a non nuclear submarine ya cant go past the new Collins class......:P :badgrin: :badgrin:

Did I mention I dont know **** about sound systems.:D

Whats a good sub?

Personally I liked the old Oberon class but if ya want a non nuclear submarine ya cant go past the new Collins class......:P :badgrin: :badgrin:

Did I mention I dont know **** about sound systems.:D

No, the old Thompson 1928A1 used to be good, but i much prefer the MP5KA4 these days :D

lol

Thats the second time someone has mentioned a submarine in this thread.

Magna buff also suggested I try a, foot long meatball or roasted chicken on a honey oats roll hold the halapinos.

Hold the halapinos, and all will be good.

lol

I've started the big save before the storm - getting ready to redo almost the whole system.

Oh, and its spelt 'jalapinoes' :D

And yes Ben, they are good, just don't lose the hubcaps off them, or pour ink into them. You will get alot of enjoyment out of them that way.

:headbange:roll:

P.S. I gots me another 2 hubcaps and they fit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol


For some reason I really dont like those Kappa 12.1. I heard 2 of them running at full volume off about 600WRMS each and was very very disappointed at the volume and the sound that they made. I would rather a JBL, just personal I guess.

:doubt: I think the big misconception with the 12.1 is that ppl expect them to play doof doof (50-100Hz) a bit louder than they do. I chose the 12.1 because it has excellent extension for true sub-bass (20-50Hz). There aren't to many songs that venture down that low unfortunately.... You can however, put the 12.1's in a smallish ported box (tuned to around 35-40 Hz) and get a massive spl peak together with a higher RMS handling of over 750WRMS, but this would be a true waste of a good SQ woofer IMO :cry:

You'll find with regards to subs, that you pretty much get what you pay for... Higher quality subs will generally be able to put up with a lot more power than the nominal WRMS ratings that they have, and it becomes more of a case with which enclosure the woofer will be in which will denote the WRMS rating rather than (as with cheaper subs) the thermal limit.

All in all, I've found that the main difference between SQ and SPL type subs is that the SPL subs won't extend quite as low as SQ subs, and have a pronounced dB peak from around 40-80Hz, which makes them excellent for eye jiggling bass but a bit boomy for SQ.

Very true, most SPL woofers will have a higher Hz that will make them boomy, 50Hz port tunes are great for SPL.

From memory the car I heard it in was a Celica. The subs where mount arse out in sealed fiberglass enclosures apparently with a Q of 1.10-1.15. Each sub was running off a Infinity mono block ( they put out about 656WRMS or something each?? ) and he was playing songs that where very low, not normal songs at all just to prove the point and I didn't care that it wasn't that loud but if the woofers arent loud then they better sound good and unfortunately they sounded very ordinary, but then that is me. Having a Boston G5 I get very picky. :doubt:

MitsiMonsta I would agree that the HXS series are dam loud for the price, there is serious contemplation about a single HXS 15inch.... ( 1000WRMS nom, 101db ( in series ), 43-50litre ported box )
:think: they are very loud as the Crossfire's XT series. The G5 is great as they sound superb but I have a craving for more bass and it is in a ported box now and it is cheaper to go a single 15 then 2x 12's so am thinking of going with the HXS380. The DD 2515 takes up too much room, just ask eek :bowrofl: