http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/mitsubishi-acts-to-remedy-380-botch/2006/04/26/1145861419618.html

FF

Good to see they are using a common sense approach to the problem instead of the some of the knee jerk reactions of the past.

I'll be interested to see what they do. Keep us posted FF..:D

This is fantastic news; considering that they succesfully relaunch it. The only thing that is killing it at the moment is style. Some people complain about the front, but it seems everyone complains about the rear (not so much on VRX and GT models).

If they could relaunch it, creating further differentiation between models and making it more stylish as well as providing additonal features on the GT and LX to make them stand out from the pack and improve RRP pricing they'd sell well. How the article goes on about a bad time to bring a 6 cylinder to the market, I don't see how it is any different now (For example, in Adelaide petrol was 146.9 cents p/litre yesterday!). So the only way they can maintain success when fuel prices fluctuate so much is to introduce a '240' (aka 4 cylinder model).

I wonder when they will actually properly re-launch the 380? They better do it soon (May/June and July at the latest); as the longer they leave it the larger amount of money they will be losing :cry:

Can we say ralliart versions etc???

the rear end should stay square but instead of oval lights, they should have round lights.

Can we say ralliart versions etc???

the rear end should stay square but instead of oval lights, they should have round lights.

Yeah, I reckon Ralliart is a definet yes, if not atleast some more oomph for the VRX/GT engines. At the same time they are going to revise the rest of the line up; hopefully adding even more features to the models and improving the styling as well.

I really hope it is the Ralliart as it will help give the 380 some guts (if you know what I mean); that is considering it has the MIVEC 3.8.

By the way, I don't know if any of you have been reading Wheels magazine but I read an article regarding the new boss. His plan is to bring forward release dates of products so Australia doesn't have to wait so long for new Mitsubishi products. He wants the new Outlander (Japan's no.1 selling SUV), the Mitsubishi 'i' (mini-car; amazing fuel economy) and the Colt Ralliart here by the end of this year. If he gets his way Mitsubishi's line up will become very very competitve.

The Pajero is also getting a face-lift this year, so it looks like the Lancer is the only thing that isn't going to be touched for now. The all-new Lancer is meant to be getting released in other countries later this year, but, we won't probably see it until mid-late next year. And if any of you have seen the new Lancer, well I a can say about it is YUM!

apparently they where planning a 190kw VRX for this series II re-launch however they also wanted a number of imported model launches to be brought forward, particularly the outlander. Therefore they where faced with the decision to either put their engineering resources into a 190kw VRX or getting the new outlander and a manual 3door version of the colt and the ralliart colt up to ADR compliance. In the end they decided that the outlander would add around 500 extra units per month on its own, let alone the new colt models, to their sales whereas a 190kw VRX would only add around 100, therefore simple mathamatics tells you which option they chose.

Expect a 190kw VRX either at the end of the year or early next year.

source: wheels magazine

Did anyone attend the press conference today?

To me they seem to have missed the point entirely..

The cars still dont differentiate all that much between the models (physically on the outside)



By the way, I don't know if any of you have been reading Wheels magazine but I read an article regarding the new boss. His plan is to bring forward release dates of products so Australia doesn't have to wait so long for new Mitsubishi products. He wants the new Outlander (Japan's no.1 selling SUV), the Mitsubishi 'i' (mini-car; amazing fuel economy) and the Colt Ralliart here by the end of this year. If he gets his way Mitsubishi's line up will become very very competitve.

Thats not going to do squat for the Tonsley Park workers though is it? All it does is pull sales away from an already failing product..

To me they seem to have missed the point entirely..

The cars still dont differentiate all that much between the models (physically on the outside)

it does just as good a job as ford do for arguments sake. Whats the visual difference between an XT and a futura? or indeed between an XT and a fairmont? I'll tell ya! Different wheels, grilles, badges and chrome bits, just like the 380!


Thats not going to do squat for the Tonsley Park workers though is it? All it does is pull sales away from an already failing product..

umm.. not really. The sort of person who is in the market for a new mitsu outlander or mitsu colt isn't really the same person who is in the market for a mitsu 380.

And it will do something for the workers actually, MMAL doesn't just derive its profits from the cars it makes, it also makes profits from the vehicles it imports. No it won't ultimately prevent tonsley park from closing down because if MMAL doesn't re-coup its investment on 380 then it will inevitablly happen, however profits that MMAL makes form imported models will buy the 380 time to start selling better and will also open up its development budget a bit more to do further improvements to the car down the track. Also the more good products mitsubishi sells in australia, the better the brand image will become, and thus more 380's will be sold as one of the major factors slowing the sales of the 380 is mitsubishi's brand imagine.

Your normally more informed then this bain...

And it will do something for the workers actually, MMAL doesn't just derive its profits from the cars it makes, it also makes profits from the vehicles it imports. No it won't ultimately prevent tonsley park from closing down because if MMAL doesn't re-coup its investment on 380 then it will inevitablly happen, however profits that MMAL makes form imported models will buy the 380 time to start selling better and will also open up its development budget a bit more to do further improvements to the car down the track. Also the more good products mitsubishi sells in australia, the better the brand image will become, and thus more 380's will be sold as one of the major factors slowing the sales of the 380 is mitsubishi's brand imagine..
Thats right, selling imports will still allow MMAL to gain a small profit on the sale of imported goods and will raise brand awareness. The downside to this however is local advertising expenses.

The downside to this however is local advertising expenses.

that would defintely be true if the vehicle wasn't a success.. which could possibly happen with the new colt models cos the colt hasn't really set the small car sector on fire since its launch... however i really think the new outlander is a winner! Especially the V6 model

bit more info

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200604/s1625455.htm

well, personally. since the launch, i don't think it has been overly sucessful enough,

mist stuff the magna's up, so the bad repuation came about, and that bad repuation isn't gonna move any time soon,

not to mention the competition is hard and there offering better packages etc, and look better,

there budget was limited, they didn't have much to play with,

i don't have much faith in the company surving much longer

they really had to make a stand out killer, like the new breed of faclons ( they look so hot, they converted me from a holden fan to a ford fan), they didn't do that so it hasn;t been that great of a sucess

styling isn't everything valaxy (although i will admit its quite important) but i think if you actually sat down and study the spec sheets aswell as drive all three vehicles (have you done that??) you would see that the 380 is every bit as good a package as the falcon, and considerably better then the commodore, hence it being named best large car of 2005. When you take into account the series 2's pricing.. it makes a very compelling argument.

I scanned this article from May's Wheel's magazine. It talks about the delay of the upgraded 380 model's and the bringing forward of imported products.

http://rapidshare.de/files/19051873/mitsu_article.jpg.html

P.S. > I scanned it to the best of my ability! It was hard to get it from edge to edge... but you can still make out what it says on the rights side anyway. I scanned it in good quality too so you can zoom in closely to properly read it.

styling isn't everything valaxy (although i will admit its quite important) but i think if you actually sat down and study the spec sheets aswell as drive all three vehicles (have you done that??) you would see that the 380 is every bit as good a package as the falcon, and considerably better then the commodore, hence it being named best large car of 2005. When you take into account the series 2's pricing.. it makes a very compelling argument.


yea your right there, it's very competitive package, but it still hasn't been a big enough ground shaker

it does just as good a job as ford do for arguments sake. Whats the visual difference between an XT and a futura? or indeed between an XT and a fairmont? I'll tell ya! Different wheels, grilles, badges and chrome bits, just like the 380!

The difference here though is the BA/BF model is a success from the get go. Why change a product when the majority like it?

This isnt so with the 380. Most reports are its mechanically a great car with nice features, but bland in appearance. Hence why they need something to differentiate between the models. Subtle bodykits (like the old Sports and VRX models)



umm.. not really. The sort of person who is in the market for a new mitsu outlander or mitsu colt isn't really the same person who is in the market for a mitsu 380.

And it will do something for the workers actually, MMAL doesn't just derive its profits from the cars it makes, it also makes profits from the vehicles it imports. No it won't ultimately prevent tonsley park from closing down because if MMAL doesn't re-coup its investment on 380 then it will inevitablly happen, however profits that MMAL makes form imported models will buy the 380 time to start selling better and will also open up its development budget a bit more to do further improvements to the car down the track. Also the more good products mitsubishi sells in australia, the better the brand image will become, and thus more 380's will be sold as one of the major factors slowing the sales of the 380 is mitsubishi's brand imagine.

Your normally more informed then this bain...
I think thats changing though, with the whole fuel price crap thats going on at the moment. People still want a fairly largish car (for space) but want economy, the outlander provides this. For those wanting to downsize (those on the extreme) will go the Colt, especially if they bring out this turbo variant). This is a loss of sales for the 380. Less 380's produced means workers no longer needed = downsizing Tonsley park.


styling isn't everything valaxy (although i will admit its quite important) but i think if you actually sat down and study the spec sheets aswell as drive all three vehicles (have you done that??) you would see that the 380 is every bit as good a package as the falcon, and considerably better then the commodore, hence it being named best large car of 2005. When you take into account the series 2's pricing.. it makes a very compelling argument.

I agree here. Although I dont think it should have been named LCOTY.. Afterall, it was tested against a BA rather than the BF..

I agree here. Although I dont think it should have been named LCOTY.. Afterall, it was tested against a BA rather than the BF..

That was my original argument, however the base line BF doesnt really have that much more over upper trimed level BAs, you have to look to the xr6 and north to find the 6 speed auto, whereas the XT remains the backbone of the sales.

That was my original argument, however the base line BF doesnt really have that much more over upper trimed level BAs, you have to look to the xr6 and north to find the 6 speed auto, whereas the XT remains the backbone of the sales.

They compared the 380 VRX.. Hardly what id call base model 380.

Anyhow, this isnt about who got what. Its about the series II 380 still being a dive.

They compared the 380 VRX.. Hardly what id call base model 380.

Anyhow, this isnt about who got what. Its about the series II 380 still being a dive.


bain you have closed lots and lots of 380 threads because of comments like this... just something to think about.

how can you say its still a dive when it hasn't even gone on sale yet? do you have some kind of time machine that tells you whether or not the series II will be more successfull then the original??

i really dont see why you have to be so negitive all the time.. i think you need to try being a bit more positive about things, thats a goal i think you should set for yourself! "i will be more positive, i will be more positive"

Don't worry, the 380 SII will not be a dive. If it's released as of now, the 380 should meet it's sales targets of around 2,000 cars a month by the end June-July.

dont think its till 2007

dont think its till 2007

Na, the 380 SII goes on sales as of now (me thinks anyway). If you go onto the Mitsubishi Australia website you will see that if you click on the 380 link the information has been updated to the SII information (some details havn't been changed yet, such as the key points thing which links the 380LX is a VRX and the SX a LS lol ).

I wished they changed more but, oh well!. The front end of the SX looks good. It has the normal white headlights but a VRX/GT style grill along with the standard taillights. The LX should have rear parking sensors and bluetooth as standard considering it costs more then the VRX and has the same features basically.

The 190kw for the VRX and GT should be as of Q4 2006 or Q1 2007. At the same time curtain airbags WILL become standard equipment (which is fair enough as the Aurion will have them and the VE will in all models except the Executive). But, let's look at what is on offer now that 'SII' has been released.

As said in other posts the new RRP (especially on base and SX) will sell the car well. And considering the VRX now has standard leather trim and is $1k cheaper then before it should sell exceptionally well as it was popular before and now should become even more popular.


http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/static/images/vehicles/gallery/imagegallery_lge_27_1.jpg
380SX Rear

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/static/images/vehicles/gallery/imagegallery_lge_26_1.jpg
380ES Front

Srry I can't post the front of the 380SX. It's a flash thingy and I can't be bothered print screening it and uploading it to somewhere else as my internet's at 64k until tomorrow night.

ah, i was assuming from what i read in wheels

damn that new grill still sux

The difference here though is the BA/BF model is a success from the get go. Why change a product when the majority like it?
The BF will undergo a styling change @ october this year. ;)

bain you have closed lots and lots of 380 threads because of comments like this... just something to think about.

how can you say its still a dive when it hasn't even gone on sale yet? do you have some kind of time machine that tells you whether or not the series II will be more successfull then the original??

i really dont see why you have to be so negitive all the time.. i think you need to try being a bit more positive about things, thats a goal i think you should set for yourself! "i will be more positive, i will be more positive"

Heaven forbid me posting my thoughts on something.. :doubt:

I can say its a dive because they arent changing anything visually but adding a few bits of chrome here and there.

No bodykits
No decent mag wheels
No real difference in the interiors from 1 to the next.

Im not negative all the time, im negative this time because mmal still cant get it right.

As ive said before, i like the car when its got big wheels and lowered but MMAL cant even offer this simple package..

an interesting read in the ford forums actually

how many people are saying the price change is a massive factor

http://www.fordaustraliaforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17376

....they arent changing anything visually but adding a few bits of chrome here and there.

No bodykits
No decent mag wheels
No real difference in the interiors from 1 to the next.

Im not negative all the time, im negative this time because mmal still cant get it right.

As ive said before, i like the car when its got big wheels and lowered but MMAL cant even offer this simple package..

From memory MMAL was targeting the conservative (& more matured) customer wan't it they said 35 yo above and on higher average income so the car's probably setup to not shout "look at me" by being subtle about styling along these lines.

So I agree with Bain, show me a self-made successful mid-career company executive who's the company stand-out performer, a winner who sets out to buy a car that aims to be subtle & conservative?

I'm afraid their marketing department is still off target on this one.

an interesting read in the ford forums actually

how many people are saying the price change is a massive factor

http://www.fordaustraliaforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17376

Interesting indeed. Apparently the Aurion pricing will start at around $36k, with the sports version to just over $40k. At least, that was their plan before 380 S2. Considering Holden are likely to price VE higher (they want VE to be considered a 'premium':roll: product) we'll see what (if any) the discounting wars will be like.

Certainly MMAL don't need to discount any further, in fact if I were selling 380's I'd upsell if the customer was uninformed enough!:D

From memory MMAL was targeting the conservative (& more matured) customer wan't it they said 35 yo above and on higher average income so the car's probably setup to not shout "look at me" by being subtle about styling along these lines.

So I agree with Bain, show me a self-made successful mid-career company executive who's the company stand-out performer, a winner who sets out to buy a car that aims to be subtle & conservative?

I'm afraid their marketing department is still off target on this one.

Yeah I'd put a few bob on MMAL having the most incompetent marketing team in Australia - they just don't have a clue, do they. Hey I'm in my early 20's, is it OK if I buy a 380??? Why not market it to everyone for God's sake! LX aimed at the "35yo and over CEO's", and VRX aimed at "a younger, enthusiastic market". Though they'd have to change a few things.

Oh, Bain, didn't the AAA give LCOTY to a base model 380???:confused: I've got the issue in front of me now and if that's the VRX, MMAL are doomed... DOOMED I tell ya!!!:badgrin:

Edit: it's important to note that this is a 'series 2' and not necessarily a new updated model(like from TH to TJ). Someone tell me the major differences between a BA and BA2 Falcon, or a TL and TL2(TW) Magna?

Heaven forbid me posting my thoughts on something.. :doubt:

I can say its a dive because they arent changing anything visually but adding a few bits of chrome here and there.

No bodykits
No decent mag wheels
No real difference in the interiors from 1 to the next.

Im not negative all the time, im negative this time because mmal still cant get it right.

As ive said before, i like the car when its got big wheels and lowered but MMAL cant even offer this simple package..

MMAL don't have any money at the moment to make significant changes to the 380. Also all the people who worked on the 380 styling at MMAL have departed the company.

FF

MMAL don't have any money at the moment to make significant changes to the 380. Also all the people who worked on the 380 styling at MMAL have departed the company.

FF
I'm not so sure about that. The base model style front (also on LS/LX) was designed by Japan. The more attractive front on VRX/GT was styled by a contracted studio. They were never technically part of MMAL; and MMAL can "re-contract" that studio if need be.

Anyway that's to the very best of my knowledge. Perhaps there's more to it that you may be able to let in on...

......The base model style front (also on LS/LX) was designed by Japan. The more attractive front on VRX/GT was styled by a contracted studio........

Correct. What I was saying is that the people at MMAL who styled parts for the 380 have left the company.

FF

From memory MMAL was targeting the conservative (& more matured) customer wan't it they said 35 yo above and on higher average income so the car's probably setup to not shout "look at me" by being subtle about styling along these lines.
As a car company you are screwed if the target age group for a new car is 35+. Ford had this issue a while back (EL/AU) when the average age for a Falcon owner was @ 40 and worked despirately to lower the target age for there product. From memory the average age for a Commodore buyer is @ 30. My feelings are that a car that is aimed for a younger age group will interest those in an older demographic... Ever heard of a mid life crisis?:D Mitsu need to get the average age of the purchaser down if the company has any hope of selling the 380 successfully. MAKE THE 380 EXCITING MITSUBISHI!!! And piss that chrome grille off!

As a car company you are screwed if the target age group for a new car is 35+. Ford had this issue a while back (EL/AU) when the average age for a Falcon owner was @ 40 and worked despirately to lower the target age for there product. From memory the average age for a Commodore buyer is @ 30. My feelings are that a car that is aimed for a younger age group will interest those in an older demographic... Ever heard of a mid life crisis?:D Mitsu need to get the average age of the purchaser down if the company has any hope of selling the 380 successfully. MAKE THE 380 EXCITING MITSUBISHI!!! And piss that chrome grille off!

:badgrin:
Exactly! when Ford and Holden decided to target the younger audience, MMAL came out a fighting champion against social injustice across Australia by going the other way... which I admit is quite revolutionary idea for a car company to reinvent itself by coming up with a business plan following on the lines of St Vincent de Paul's.

As a car company you are screwed if the target age group for a new car is 35+. Ford had this issue a while back (EL/AU) when the average age for a Falcon owner was @ 40 and worked despirately to lower the target age for there product. From memory the average age for a Commodore buyer is @ 30. My feelings are that a car that is aimed for a younger age group will interest those in an older demographic... Ever heard of a mid life crisis? Mitsu need to get the average age of the purchaser down if the company has any hope of selling the 380 successfully. MAKE THE 380 EXCITING MITSUBISHI!!! And piss that chrome grille off!

They have the VRX/GT models to appear to youth but the problem is that half the time when you say 380 everyone thinks of the common (base) model which looks well, boring. The SII is slightly better looking at the front then SI but still not by much. I wish they would have given the SII 380ES some alloys and priced it a few hundred bucks higher atleast that way the public's perception of the 'common' model would be better and give the 380 atleast some standing ground in the looks department. The front of the 380 isn't really a problem, the back of it is. The 380VRX/GT look good, it's just those lights on the the base and the SX at the back. They need to make them clear and circular, or clear and oval or something, otherwise those lights look somewhat out of place and/or outdated if you know what I mean.

Just one point i had to throw in after seeing other forums, everyone is winging that the 380 still looks like the US galant, so what its not like the Galant was sold here, they are two different cars suspension, interior and parts wise. Hell the VT/VX/VY/VZ Commodore is an copy of the old Opel Omega from 1993, no complaints there and the comparision is valid, the 380 has about as much in common with the Galant as the VT commodore did with the Omega.

Just one point i had to throw in after seeing other forums, everyone is winging that the 380 still looks like the US galant, so what its not like the Galant was sold here, they are two different cars suspension, interior and parts wise. Hell the VT/VX/VY/VZ Commodore is an copy of the old Opel Omega from 1993, no complaints there and the comparision is valid, the 380 has about as much in common with the Galant as the VT commodore did with the Omega.

The 380 still does look like the Galant, but, is only identical on the rear end of the VRX/GT as they have the exact same taillights. The body panels are similar, but, not the same. People can whinge about it looking like the Galant, which it does, but the 380 is atleast and improvement of the Galant (especially the Galant's front end). The 380 looks fine on the front end (infact better then commodore and falcons) in VRX/GT form.

I'm sure that if MMAL survive (which they probably will now as SII pricing will boost sales) they will 'Australianize' the 380 to add features and styling changes that suit Australia. It all depends on whether MMAL can make a profit, and if they can the 380 will change and hopefully differentiate itself further from the Galant.

its all very well and good saying "target the car at the younger people" but the simple fact is the 35+ age group buys a freekin crap load more $30,000+ cars then the under 35 age group, the under 35's are prodominantly single and on lower wages and hence buy more in the $20-30,000 price bracket.

Its simple business brains that you should target the car at the age group which actually buys the cars, theres no point having a car that all the 18yo kids love when none of them can afford to buy one!

its all very well and good saying "target the car at the younger people" but the simple fact is the 35+ age group buys a freekin crap load more $30,000+ cars then the under 35 age group, the under 35's are prodominantly single and on lower wages and hence buy more in the $20-30,000 price bracket.

Its simple business brains that you should target the car at the age group which actually buys the cars, theres no point having a car that all the 18yo kids love when none of them can afford to buy one!

Now that the 380ES SII is only $27,990 for manual and $29,990 for auto it fits in that $20-$30k 'youth' bracket. If MMAL could improve the looks of the base 380 for '07 or SIII it could help make the car appeal to younger buyers, thus giving the car two markets to sell to (and improving sales at the same time). MMAL could make the base model appeal to younger people by:
-Keeping the price similar to what it is (or raising it by $1k next year) and adding 16" alloys and clear taillights (clear, as in you can see through them, not grey like the VRX/GT, but perhaps red, orange and white in colour. an example of what I mean is demonstrated on the Mazda 3 neo and Mazda 3 SP23 as in how the lights should differentiate; as in they should be clear on the other models, and it would enhance the appeal of the car dramatically).

And that would just about do it for the V6. If they end up offering a 4 cyl version which say, is priced at $25,990 for the manual it would further make this younger generation buy the 380 and steal some sales off the ageing Camry.

Just one point i had to throw in after seeing other forums, everyone is winging that the 380 still looks like the US galant, so what its not like the Galant was sold here, they are two different cars suspension, interior and parts wise. Hell the VT/VX/VY/VZ Commodore is an copy of the old Opel Omega from 1993, no complaints there and the comparision is valid, the 380 has about as much in common with the Galant as the VT commodore did with the Omega.
Actually, the only two parts interchangable between VT and Omega are the plastic trim piece between the front and rear door glass ( B pillar trim) and the interior roof hand grips. Even the doors are different. With the 380 i think the only metal panels that are different are the bonnet and guards. Everything else is the same.

its all very well and good saying "target the car at the younger people" but the simple fact is the 35+ age group buys a freekin crap load more $30,000+ cars then the under 35 age group, the under 35's are prodominantly single and on lower wages and hence buy more in the $20-30,000 price bracket.


Good point, we're saying the fundamental flaw of MMAL's marketing campaign is the non-focus on the youthful, fastpace and energetic nature of the vehicle for successful younger people going somewhere. It's great for older people in stable positions with perhaps more money to buy the 380 for that image.

its all very well and good saying "target the car at the younger people" but the simple fact is the 35+ age group buys a freekin crap load more $30,000+ cars then the under 35 age group, the under 35's are prodominantly single and on lower wages and hence buy more in the $20-30,000 price bracket.

Its simple business brains that you should target the car at the age group which actually buys the cars, theres no point having a car that all the 18yo kids love when none of them can afford to buy one!
Im telling you that im nudging this age group. To me a car that is marketed to the 35+ age group (Accord seppo for example) simply does not appeal to me. A lot of my friends, some of which aren't into cars would not look at a conservatively styled and performing vehicle! They want something that says " I've arrived" but is practical, economical and comfortable. look at the XR6 atmo Falcon. It is priced @ $600 more than a Futura but sell heaps more. Why? Family man wants to be noticed! Who looks at a Futura? And besides, the only external difference between atmo and turbo XR's are badging. It looks like you have spent the same $$$ as the bloke next door with his boosted version!

They want something that says " I've arrived" but is practical, economical and comfortable. look at the XR6 atmo Falcon. It is priced @ $600 more than a Futura but sell heaps more. Why? Family man wants to be noticed! Who looks at a Futura? And besides, the only external difference between atmo and turbo XR's are badging. It looks like you have spent the same $$$ as the bloke next door with his boosted version!

David, have you seen the thread on FFAU talking about cars people are sick of seeing, suprise suprise, its the BA/BF NA XR6!!!

Its exactly right what you have said, but it tends to actually discount the xr6T and the xr8 (ignoring the bonnet), they are as common as bathwater and have lost their uniqueness, it is almost as if all Falcons leave the factory with the XR bodykit.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=46472#post679177

Yet another spin on a tired tale...

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=46472#post679177

Yet another spin on a tired tale...
Not that one, there is another one on cars their sick of seeing.

I layed down my thoughts pretty well in that link you posted.

Trying to make the 380 look good is a bit like trying to dress up a dog turd. How could they get it so right with the TJ VRX, and stuff this one up. You cant keep on feeding extra power through the front wheels either to turn it into a good car, and keep making them heavier(which is why the older TJ magna beats the 380 easily in the production class, even though it only has 163kw). This car needed to look great AND be rear wheel drive to have a chance. Fail and fail.

Trying to make the 380 look good is a bit like trying to dress up a dog turd. How could they get it so right with the TJ VRX, and stuff this one up. You cant keep on feeding extra power through the front wheels either to turn it into a good car, and keep making them heavier(which is why the older TJ magna beats the 380 easily in the production class, even though it only has 163kw). This car needed to look great AND be rear wheel drive to have a chance. Fail and fail.
How about trying a constructive post? What does this drivel prove???

Im telling you that im nudging this age group. To me a car that is marketed to the 35+ age group (Accord seppo for example) simply does not appeal to me. A lot of my friends, some of which aren't into cars would not look at a conservatively styled and performing vehicle! They want something that says " I've arrived" but is practical, economical and comfortable. look at the XR6 atmo Falcon. It is priced @ $600 more than a Futura but sell heaps more. Why? Family man wants to be noticed! Who looks at a Futura? And besides, the only external difference between atmo and turbo XR's are badging. It looks like you have spent the same $$$ as the bloke next door with his boosted version!
What about this drivel!

Refer to sig...:nuts:

Regarding WHO9's comment about the XR6. I must admit it is a very desirable car for some men. I love the front end, but the back end of all Falcon/Fairlane models don't do it for me. They (even the sports/luxury) variants share the same taillights, something that pisses me off. I don't mind the lights, it's just since the BA's introduction in 2002, they havn't changed.

And ppl like fundies (RWD heads) can go on about how after a certain amount of power you should revert to RWD instead of FWD. This is true but only to some extent. 175kw is a reasonable amount of power to go through the front wheels, and as presented by many american car's FWD can handle greater engine power then this. If MMAL can make some money on the current 380 range (which they will if what the paper is saying is true; ie. they can still make a profit when building 75 cars a day), they should invest in an 'active torque split' system like on the Mazda 6 MPS and is integrated in the 4WD system on the Outlander. This could be achieved if they used an advanced ESP system; which for some reason even the current 380 doesn't have available.

The only way 380 can really succeed is to offer considerable difference in fuel consumption. For the time being the prices will boost sales, but, when the 380 becomes lacking in terms of active & passive safety systems (which it will once the VE and Aurion is released), people may start to 'over-look' the 380, but because the price of the 380 is so much lower then what the other models are anticipated to be, this may not be a problem.

So if MMC pull the plug on MMAL next year (it won't happen this year), they should atleast consider adding features to the car to make it on par with other models. If they could do this while also changing the design to 'Australian' tastes while also offering a 4cyl engine with a CVT tranmission they'd have a car that could potentially outsell the new Camry. And, as I have said in my other posts, if they could get around 140kw out of the new all-alloy MIVEC2.4 engine it isn't really an underpowered car and it would have exceptional fuel economy for a large car. I know everyone may not want a 4 cylinder, but they'd then have two engine options available which would allow them to have the vehicle in essentially two seperate markets.

I think lowering the price of the 380 is the best thing MMAL can do in the short term. By moving the base model to $27,990, it suddenly becomes desirable to a whole new group of people, including fleet owners and younger people (yes, younger people!) who would normally have bought a small/medium size car.

Look at Hyundai. They've built a reputation on providing more bang for buck. They never claimed to be sporty, youthful, etc. They simply provided reasonable cars for a reasonable price.

The other fact that a lot of you seem to be missing is that most people tend to personalise their cars. They add their own mags, suspension, exhaust, plus other bits and pieces. So who cares if the base model 380 doesn't have chrome, great mags, etc? You can always add it.

I'd rather spend $28k on a car and then have $5-6k to spend on mods, rather than $34k on a car and no money to spend on mods :)

I think lowering the price of the 380 is the best thing MMAL can do in the short term. By moving the base model to $27,990, it suddenly becomes desirable to a whole new group of people, including fleet owners and younger people (yes, younger people!) who would normally have bought a small/medium size car.

Look at Hyundai. They've built a reputation on providing more bang for buck. They never claimed to be sporty, youthful, etc. They simply provided reasonable cars for a reasonable price.

The other fact that a lot of you seem to be missing is that most people tend to personalise their cars. They add their own mags, suspension, exhaust, plus other bits and pieces. So who cares if the base model 380 doesn't have chrome, great mags, etc? You can always add it.

I'd rather spend $28k on a car and then have $5-6k to spend on mods, rather than $34k on a car and no money to spend on mods

Agreed. The price drop to $28k is a wise descision. Now in terms of price it is cheaper then quite a few mid-size cars such as the Accord Euro, Mazda6 and on par with the Camry 4cyl. Therefore younger people may look at the 380 as an option over other cars.

BUT, while saying this, obtains a decent amount of profit from these 380's they should spend some $$$$ on styling changes for the 380, along with additions to add to the interior (or interior styling changes) along with more safety features, so that the car remains 'current' as time move's on.

Very good point you make about modding your own car now that is $6k cheaper. So yeah, if you had the money modding your own 380 would be a treat. Or if you got really smart, you'd by the 380 SI runout base model for $24,990 and have $10k (NOW THAT'S ALOT OF SPARE CHANGE!!) to spend on mods.

For me the jury's still out on this repricing. Incredible value, but if MMAL don't market it properly it will just prove to be yet another wasted opportunity. The current "Race In" campaign featuring a few seconds of 380SX just won't cut it.

But an even greater concern is the revised sales target of just 1500 per month. With CLEVER and SMART (not EXPENSIVE) marketing they should have little trouble in achieving this down the track. I still think 2000 per month is realistic. Now with the pricing realignment MMAL will win alot more fleet customers back, including those who perhaps were a little pensive.

I understand that some people are wary of the repricing, but remember, when you have few resources and you need some money in the bank, lowering the price of your goods is your only option.

MMAL needs to turn a profit before they can invest in a substantially revised 380. This is a great strategy to put them in a position where they can justify more development costs and I applaud them. I think it will work well. Just give it a couple of months for the word to get out.

Of course, I agree with VeradaBoy's assertion that marketing has never been their strong point. But with this sort of pricing, I think the product will speak for itself.

Trying to make the 380 look good is a bit like trying to dress up a dog turd. How could they get it so right with the TJ VRX, and stuff this one up. You cant keep on feeding extra power through the front wheels either to turn it into a good car, and keep making them heavier(which is why the older TJ magna beats the 380 easily in the production class, even though it only has 163kw). This car needed to look great AND be rear wheel drive to have a chance. Fail and fail.
Don't know why I'm bothering to reply, but I've had a bad day and wanna rip the s**t outta everyone.

To suggest 380 had to be RWD to succeed is a bit like saying granny smith apples would sell more if they were red...:nuts: Total and utter nonsensical rubbish:disgusted . Today, more than ever, FWD is proving to be increasingly efficient in delivering excellent performance, dynamics etc.

As for looks, I think the 380 in it's ACTUAL volume selling variant (the VRX) looks pretty damn good, and between you and me, I'm an arrogant Essendon (AFL) supporter who thinks his s**t doesn't stink, likewise my dog, so on that note the 380 VRX/GT is the best looking car built in this big brown land, and dressing it up could only increase it's stimulative properties. Go to hell buddy boy :upyours:

Don't know why I'm bothering to reply, but I've had a bad day and wanna rip the s**t outta everyone.

To suggest 380 had to be RWD to succeed is a bit like saying granny smith apples would sell more if they were red...:nuts: Total and utter nonsensical rubbish:disgusted . Today, more than ever, FWD is proving to be increasingly efficient in delivering excellent performance, dynamics etc.

As for looks, I think the 380 in it's ACTUAL volume selling variant (the VRX) looks pretty damn good, and between you and me, I'm an arrogant Essendon (AFL) supporter who thinks his s**t doesn't stink, likewise my dog, so on that note the 380 VRX/GT is the best looking car built in this big brown land, and dressing it up could only increase it's stimulative properties. Go to hell buddy boy :upyours:

lol funniest post i've read all day. I agree with what you say 99% (everything but the go to hell bit lol).

Don't know why I'm bothering to reply, but I've had a bad day and wanna rip the s**t outta everyone.

To suggest 380 had to be RWD to succeed is a bit like saying granny smith apples would sell more if they were red...:nuts: Total and utter nonsensical rubbish:disgusted . Today, more than ever, FWD is proving to be increasingly efficient in delivering excellent performance, dynamics etc.

As for looks, I think the 380 in it's ACTUAL volume selling variant (the VRX) looks pretty damn good, and between you and me, I'm an arrogant Essendon (AFL) supporter who thinks his s**t doesn't stink, likewise my dog, so on that note the 380 VRX/GT is the best looking car built in this big brown land, and dressing it up could only increase it's stimulative properties. Go to hell buddy boy :upyours:

God you go for the bombers? Whats wrong with you!

God you go for the bombers? Whats wrong with you!
Yep carn the dons!:dancin: Greatest team ever back in 2000. Shoulda bloody won 3 flags in a row... nothing like living in the past!lol

PS- sorry for going off topic. Er, go 380?:P

Don't know why I'm bothering to reply, but I've had a bad day and wanna rip the s**t outta everyone.

To suggest 380 had to be RWD to succeed is a bit like saying granny smith apples would sell more if they were red... Total and utter nonsensical rubbish . Today, more than ever, FWD is proving to be increasingly efficient in delivering excellent performance, dynamics etc.

As for looks, I think the 380 in it's ACTUAL volume selling variant (the VRX) looks pretty damn good, and between you and me, I'm an arrogant Essendon (AFL) supporter who thinks his s**t doesn't stink, likewise my dog, so on that note the 380 VRX/GT is the best looking car built in this big brown land, and dressing it up could only increase it's stimulative properties. Go to hell buddy boy

Good on ya mate. I think you hit the nail directly on the head their.

And about the 380VRX, I agree. The looks of that car are so hot, any other car made in Australia can't compare to hit, the 380 (VRX/GT variants) are just too damn HOT. If I won an XR6 (If I won a SV6 I'd crush it live on TV, and start a charity where everyone who has had trouble with a Holden could dontate money - all proceeds go to MMAL :)) in a competition I'd sell it and buy a 380VRX and donate the rest of the money into the AMC car.

Secondly, about your sales predictions, I think your right. They have it now set at 1,500 a month as their target. I also think they will surpass this, and considering they have stated that they can make a profit buy selling 1,500 a month, if they can make 2,000 sales a month they'd have a decent amount of $$$$ to play with this time next year when they can hopefully create a fully loaded (& more powerful) 380. Especially considering March's obtained target, before the new pricing came into effect, 1,500 is rather conservative; but, before I say anything, remember April is generally a bad month for car sales, so I'll wait for the April sales figure (which should be out on Thursday).

P.S.> WTF is Fundies anyway? He's an annoying little sh^t that probably owns a commondore (omg it's RWD OMG OMG FULLSHICK - let's do burnout). What is his problem? FWD's are equally as good as RWD if not better then RWD for city driving and unless your driving like a retarted monkey it shouldn't bother you in the country either. If your driving normally you could argue that FWD's are better then RWD because they are generally more fuel efficient, and considering the price of fuel that should mean something to ya.

Good on ya mate. I think you hit the nail directly on the head their.

And about the 380VRX, I agree. The looks of that car are so hot, any other car made in Australia can't compare to hit, the 380 (VRX/GT variants) are just too damn HOT. If I won an XR6 (If I won a SV6 I'd crush it live on TV, and start a charity where everyone who has had trouble with a Holden could dontate money - all proceeds go to MMAL :)) in a competition I'd sell it and buy a 380VRX and donate the rest of the money into the AMC car.

Secondly, about your sales predictions, I think your right. They have it now set at 1,500 a month as their target. I also think they will surpass this, and considering they have stated that they can make a profit buy selling 1,500 a month, if they can make 2,000 sales a month they'd have a decent amount of $$$$ to play with this time next year when they can hopefully create a fully loaded (& more powerful) 380. Especially considering March's obtained target, before the new pricing came into effect, 1,500 is rather conservative; but, before I say anything, remember April is generally a bad month for car sales, so I'll wait for the April sales figure (which should be out on Thursday).

P.S.> WTF is Fundies anyway? He's an annoying little sh^t that probably owns a commondore (omg it's RWD OMG OMG FULLSHICK - let's do burnout). What is his problem? FWD's are equally as good as RWD if not better then RWD for city driving and unless your driving like a retarted monkey it shouldn't bother you in the country either. If your driving normally you could argue that FWD's are better then RWD because they are generally more fuel efficient, and considering the price of fuel that should mean something to ya.

Yeah remember last year when Magna sold only 699! I reckon if around 1200-1300 380s are sold for April it's a good result. Anything less than 1100 would be very disappointing.

But I must be honest I'm genuinely concerned about MMAL's future and I just pray that this rejuvenated 380 line will sell:pray:. I'm confident it will, but then again I thought 380 would sell more than it has to date (damn I wish I got that fleet position at LeasePlan - I coulda trumpeted the 380's cause!:rant:)

I do know MMAL have a heap of plans on the table for 380 in the near (and far...) future, it's all a matter of funding it. But selling a targeted 1500 per month won't bring a smile to those uber intelligent, faultless businessmen at Japan's HQ...:doubt:

MMAL need to realise (and I'm sure they do) the potential in the 380, and also that in the manufacturing plant. I even sent them a 27-page report on how I feel about Mitsu and 380, and what I think should be done, short and long term, to ensure its future and success. Hell I don't work for them, but I do my bit - WE ALL SHOULD.:)

MMAL need to realise (and I'm sure they do) the potential in the 380, and also that in the manufacturing plant. I even sent them a 27-page report on how I feel about Mitsu and 380, and what I think should be done, short and long term, to ensure its future and success. Hell I don't work for them, but I do my bit - WE ALL SHOULD.:)
What exactly did you say to them? :D

A hell of alot!!!:D :shifty:

Yeah remember last year when Magna sold only 699! I reckon if around 1200-1300 380s are sold for April it's a good result. Anything less than 1100 would be very disappointing.

But I must be honest I'm genuinely concerned about MMAL's future and I just pray that this rejuvenated 380 line will sell. I'm confident it will, but then again I thought 380 would sell more than it has to date (damn I wish I got that fleet position at LeasePlan - I coulda trumpeted the 380's cause!)

I do know MMAL have a heap of plans on the table for 380 in the near (and far...) future, it's all a matter of funding it. But selling a targeted 1500 per month won't bring a smile to those uber intelligent, faultless businessmen at Japan's HQ...

MMAL need to realise (and I'm sure they do) the potential in the 380, and also that in the manufacturing plant. I even sent them a 27-page report on how I feel about Mitsu and 380, and what I think should be done, short and long term, to ensure its future and success. Hell I don't work for them, but I do my bit - WE ALL SHOULD

Yeah, I'm also concerned about MMAL's future. But I feel if they can make profit at 1,500 cars a day then if they can sell more then that (and I reckon they'll sell 2,000+ in june/july and future around that figure) then I don't see MMAL closing down. So really, the mission the 380 has (to bring MMAL back into profit) starts from this day, for this financial year (well from 1st april), as it is the first full financial year which the 380 will be available throughout.

I'm also very excited about the possiblities for the 380 if MMAL do make a profit. It could become a very powerful and very equipped, stylish vehicle, with a variety of engine options and alot of export potential (imagine hybrid 380, using say 6l/100km, export to Europe and people would honestly flock to it, ppl over their want large cars but can't afford them due to the price of fuel their, so the hybrid380 would be godsend for them).

Speaking of you writing a 27-page report to them, may I ask, what did you write and did they respond? I was considering writing to them (I have actually started a letter, just havn't got around to fixing it up yet), of inclusions they should add to the vehicle to make it more attractive for buyers and their pricing structure (which has been addressed now anyway).

I even sent them a 27-page report on how I feel about Mitsu and 380, and what I think should be done, short and long term, to ensure its future and success. Hell I don't work for them, but I do my bit - WE ALL SHOULD.:)

Dont give them consulting, you'll steal work from my employer!

As a side note, did anyone see how the falcon performed (or more to the point, didnt) in April?

From the guys on FFAU (Ratt):
Mont of April
This year vs Last year.
Fiesta 649 vs 395 4/05
Focus 1288 vs 559
Falcon 2565 (!) vs 4174
Falcon ute 1027 vs 1382
Territory 1525 vs 2093
Escape 150 vs 219
Fairlane 81 (!!) vs 169

Not looking sensational for large cars at the moment, especially with the uncertainty surrounding fuel.

Dont give them consulting, you'll steal work from my employer!

As a side note, did anyone see how the falcon performed (or more to the point, didnt) in April?

From the guys on FFAU (Ratt):
Mont of April
This year vs Last year.
Fiesta 649 vs 395 4/05
Focus 1288 vs 559
Falcon 2565 (!) vs 4174
Falcon ute 1027 vs 1382
Territory 1525 vs 2093
Escape 150 vs 219
Fairlane 81 (!!) vs 169

Not looking sensational for large cars at the moment, especially with the uncertainty surrounding fuel.

At the moment MMAL need the sales rather then Ford. But still, I'd prefer people buying the Falcon over the VZ. The Territory is going average but I have a feeling that's not for long, the new Outlander will shake things up (Outlander outsells RAV4 in Japan!).

And Fairlane figures aren't a suprise though. Aren't they meant to be axing it?

Good to see the Fiesta and Focus sales have risen (particuarly the Focus) they deserve to considering they look quite decent compared to before.


HAS ANYONE GOT ANY WORD ON MMC sales in OZ (FOR APRIL)?

Speaking of you writing a 27-page report to them, may I ask, what did you write and did they respond? I was considering writing to them (I have actually started a letter, just havn't got around to fixing it up yet), of inclusions they should add to the vehicle to make it more attractive for buyers and their pricing structure (which has been addressed now anyway).
It's a matter of being realistic and ensuring you come across as someone intelligent; someone of substance who knows what they're talking about. That way they will give some merit to what you have to say.

It's all nice and dandy to say "I think you should bring back AWD, include ESP, release a '240', do this, do that etc", but I believe MMAL have received heaps of feadback on 380, and a large portion of it will be from people who don't know what they're talking about, nor come across as being genuine.

What drove me to write that report was the Jan sales of just 719. That concerned me something shocking. In it I actually stated "...far be it for me to tell someone else how to do their job, and much of what you have and will read here will already be discussed and familiar to yourselves... however I simply cannot sit idly by whilst my favourite car company continues to struggle..."

I handed it to an MMAL rep at the Melbourne Motor Show in person, and yes they did respond and were lets say very impressed:D. But I must stress it was not done for want of personal gain. If at the end of the day MMAL succeeds and prospers beyond the next decade I'll be happy - whether what I wrote had any impact or not.

Good on ya mate. I think you hit the nail directly on the head their.

And about the 380VRX, I agree. The looks of that car are so hot, any other car made in Australia can't compare to hit, the 380 (VRX/GT variants) are just too damn HOT. If I won an XR6 (If I won a SV6 I'd crush it live on TV, and start a charity where everyone who has had trouble with a Holden could dontate money - all proceeds go to MMAL :)) in a competition I'd sell it and buy a 380VRX and donate the rest of the money into the AMC car.

Secondly, about your sales predictions, I think your right. They have it now set at 1,500 a month as their target. I also think they will surpass this, and considering they have stated that they can make a profit buy selling 1,500 a month, if they can make 2,000 sales a month they'd have a decent amount of $$$$ to play with this time next year when they can hopefully create a fully loaded (& more powerful) 380. Especially considering March's obtained target, before the new pricing came into effect, 1,500 is rather conservative; but, before I say anything, remember April is generally a bad month for car sales, so I'll wait for the April sales figure (which should be out on Thursday).

P.S.> WTF is Fundies anyway? He's an annoying little sh^t that probably owns a commondore (omg it's RWD OMG OMG FULLSHICK - let's do burnout). What is his problem? FWD's are equally as good as RWD if not better then RWD for city driving and unless your driving like a retarted monkey it shouldn't bother you in the country either. If your driving normally you could argue that FWD's are better then RWD because they are generally more fuel efficient, and considering the price of fuel that should mean something to ya.
Ive actually owned a modded TJ sport for the last 5 and a half years. My dream car is also a mitsubishi (evo 9), but Im a family man, so it just doesnt quite fit the bill. I know my post was a BIT abbrasive, I tend to not candy coat my feelings. Mitsubishi really had to get the 380 absolutely right, and time and sales have proven that aussies love there big sixes to be rear wheel drive( I could imagine how much better mine would be to drive if it was rwd). I dont care what you all say, the 380 is not a basically good looking car. Yes, the top of the range VRX with some really expensive 18 - 20 inch wheels can look ok, but I dont feel any great urge to trade my car in for the new one. (performance is no better than the old one, and fuel economy is not better). So where is the great improvement. Not enough homework done by MMAL before they released this one. Good luck to MMAL, I hope they survive this one.

Ive actually owned a modded TJ sport for the last 5 and a half years. My dream car is also a mitsubishi (evo 9), but Im a family man, so it just doesnt quite fit the bill. I know my post was a BIT abbrasive, I tend to not candy coat my feelings. Mitsubishi really had to get the 380 absolutely right, and time and sales have proven that aussies love there big sixes to be rear wheel drive( I could imagine how much better mine would be to drive if it was rwd). I dont care what you all say, the 380 is not a basically good looking car. Yes, the top of the range VRX with some really expensive 18 - 20 inch wheels can look ok, but I dont feel any great urge to trade my car in for the new one. (performance is no better than the old one, and fuel economy is not better). So where is the great improvement. Not enough homework done by MMAL before they released this one. Good luck to MMAL, I hope they survive this one.

I hope MMAL keeps going as well. And I'm sure (as I said before) with the new pricing structure that sales will pick up. Yeah, in your last post the message came across that is sounded like you were completely against a FWD car, which I now find strange considering you have stated you drive one.

I know alot of people argue that the 380 would sell if it were RWD, but, that may not be the case. As you said before you're a family man, and I'm sure most family people probably wouldn't care if their car was FWD or RWD. FWDs these days are improving and are actually better (fuel economy) wise their most RWDs. I can see the fact that the 380 probably would earn more sales off of Holden and Ford customers if it were RWD, but, the fact is that Mitsubishi (and Toyota) are both way past the days when they were producing RWD sedans; and to re-set up a factory to build RWD would cost a sh*tload, and in the end sales for MMAL may not rise as a result, it's all a gamble. Atleast it rids Mitsubishi from being a bogan brand anyway, which must be a good thing :) .

The real problem with the 380 is not that it is FWD. This is a furphy put forward by the very people who would never buy a Mitsubishi. Do you think the average punter who buys a V8 RWD Commodore would be swayed by the 380 if it were RWD? No... so let's get real and drop the FWD v RWD debate.

The 380 doesn't sell because:

1. The Australian motoring industry is only interested in Ford v Holden. Find me one copy of Wheels or Motor magazine that doesn't have a Falcon or a Commodore in it. Other cars don't get a lot of press, unless they're exotic or sports cars. And if they do get some press, it's to bag the car because it doesn't have 200kw and RWD. To try to establish yourself as the 3rd family car in Australia was always going to be a hard slog. Even Toyota never succeeded with the Camry/Vienta/Avalon.
2. Mitsubishi had a bad run in the late 80's/early 90's with smoky motors, dodgy auto transmissions, etc. Whether you like it or not, a certain amount of this reputation still lingers. It wasn't helped by the fact that the TR/TS was woefully underpowered and a bit daggy. (I say that, and I drive a TS!). You can get away with being either daggy (Toyota) or unreliable (Holden). To be both spells doom.
3. Poor resale on Mitsubishi's, due to 2 (above) means that the examples that do remain on the road are generally poorly maintained, which reinforces Mitsubishi's poor reputation. Who hasn't seen a TN/TP Magna, with rust, assorted dents and different coloured panels, smoke pouring out the exhaust, making it's way at 60km/h down a highway? :D (with about 10 people jammed into the back seat).
4. Constant speculation about the future of MMAL has kept the conservative penny counting buyers away (who cr*p themselves at the prospect of paying a few extra dollars for parts, or losing resale value).
5. A pricing structure that was out of whack with what the market would tolerate (in view of what the 380 offered compared to the other big three).
6. The fact that many people are waiting to see what the VE Commodore offers.
7. A pig-headed attitude that the 380 has to compete directly against Falcon/Commodore. Toyota stopped pitching itself directly against Falcon/Commodore long ago, because they were smart enough to realise that a good proportion of Falcon/Commodore buyers would never switch to another brand, no matter how cr*p Falcon/Commodore is.
8. A dealer network that ranged the spectrum from shockingly bad to mediocre. I have never seen a Mitsubishi dealership that made me say "wow". All the dealerships look old, run down, and the salespeople don't seem too keen about their product. Also, many of the bigger dealerships have closed down (in Sydney at least).
9. No other models in the Mitsubishi range that draw wide public interest. The Lancer is OK (but not great in a strong field), the Pajero is very old and tired, the Colt looks OK but could be marketed a bit more, and the Triton is also old and tired. The Triton will be replaced soon, but the range as a whole needs a freshen up to generate interest across a whole range of demographics.

Sorry about the rant, but I think that simply adding a bit of kit to the 380 and making it RWD would not cure Mitsubishi's problems. What Mitsubishi needs more than a reworked 380 is a reworked image... advertising, rejuvenating it's dealer network, widening the range of vehicles and getting rid of the siege mentality.

I know alot of people argue that the 380 would sell if it were RWD, but, that may not be the case. As you said before you're a family man, and I'm sure most family people probably wouldn't care if their car was FWD or RWD. FWDs these days are improving and are actually better (fuel economy) wise their most RWDs. I can see the fact that the 380 probably would earn more sales off of Holden and Ford customers if it were RWD, but, the fact is that Mitsubishi (and Toyota) are both way past the days when they were producing RWD sedans; and to re-set up a factory to build RWD would cost a sh*tload, and in the end sales for MMAL may not rise as a result, it's all a gamble. Atleast it rids Mitsubishi from being a bogan brand anyway, which must be a good thing :) .


Actually, i would have bought a 380GT if it had the option of a manual and was rwd..

My parents also traded in their magna to buy a Toyota Klueger as they tow a caravan. They would have bought the 380 aswell but it was a FWD. From their past experiences with the magna (3 gearboxes blown from towing) they didnt want to touch another FWD.

Theres also a few people here at work who have taken a Ford Falcon (XR6) over the 380VRX/GT because of simple things like.. Not aggressive enough and .... fwd..

Everyone seems to think people who buy cars are naive or something.. Most people dont go out and blindly buy a car. They ask their friends, or friends of friends for their input and experience. Or they use the internet to get reviews and information.

FWD is good yes, for daily driving.. Certainly not for towing a boat, trailer or caravan. The car doesnt have split fold down rear seats, which most families do use.

Good car yes.. practical for most families.. no

As for ridding mitsubishi of the bogan brand name. Its the 'bogans' as you call them that make up the sales.. You should be wanting them if you want MMAL to stay afloat.

Actually, i would have bought a 380GT if it had the option of a manual and was rwd..

My parents also traded in their magna to buy a Toyota Klueger as they tow a caravan. They would have bought the 380 aswell but it was a FWD. From their past experiences with the magna (3 gearboxes blown from towing) they didnt want to touch another FWD.

Theres also a few people here at work who have taken a Ford Falcon (XR6) over the 380VRX/GT because of simple things like.. Not aggressive enough and .... fwd..

Everyone seems to think people who buy cars are naive or something.. Most people dont go out and blindly buy a car. They ask their friends, or friends of friends for their input and experience. Or they use the internet to get reviews and information.

FWD is good yes, for daily driving.. Certainly not for towing a boat, trailer or caravan. The car doesnt have split fold down rear seats, which most families do use.

Good car yes.. practical for most families.. no

As for ridding mitsubishi of the bogan brand name. Its the 'bogans' as you call them that make up the sales.. You should be wanting them if you want MMAL to stay afloat.

Ok, as you state that you would have bought the 380 if it were RWD and available in manual. Ok, you like RWD, but alot of people only get RWD because everyone thinks it's better. Alot of people have never driven a large FWD car, yet, think that a RWD is better (trust me, a female friend of ours went to buy an Audi and her husband told her not to get it because it was FWD, in the end she bought a BMW which is RWD, she drove the Audi said it was fine, but her husband - who didn't drive the Audi- refused to support her on the purchase because it was FWD; he's a w*nker).

About your mates who bought an XR6 over the 380VRX/GT, well that really comes down to personal perception. As for the 380VRX/GT not having that much agressiveness, I think that is a total load of crap, because from the back end it is probably the most agressive looking large car today. The XR6 isn't a bad car, but I would pick the 380VRX/GT over it based on design, standard features, price, warranty. Though, If I was in the market for a more powerful car I would get the XR6Turbo, as I must admit in terms of how much power it offers (and the price you can get them for 2nd hand), it is a very fast car; and in the case of looking for a car which is as powerful as the XR6T I wouldn't purchase a 380 because regardless of which 380 I would choose, it wouldn't offer me any additonal power.

In terms of practibility, I completely agree with you; the 380 should have fold down seats or if not atleast have them as an option (because a business man, who lives on his own won't need fold down rear seating).

As for people asking their friends, this is also true; and for some reason alot of people have alot against large FWD's; despite the fact alot of them havn't driven one. In terms of reputation though, I wouldn't say Ford or Holden's is golden either, infact problems that the EA's and EB's experience are generally worse then the 1st gen/2nd gen magna's.

LOL :bowrofl: And about the bogan thing, that isn't aimed at all Falcon and Commodore drivers. Mainly the one's who go arond driving in them like w^nkers, every time you're next to one at the lights. Generally speaking they are in an XF (or EL or what every falcon, BA's the cut off point for the point so BA and newer aren't really bogan cars) and commodore drivers are nearly all bogans (particuarly the ppl who drive VL/VN).

And I have to confess, that if I was in the market for a large, high powered RWD sedan, available at a decent price, it really only brings my choice between to cars; the Falcon and the Commodore. Going by what I've driven and what I've heard from others (and read in reviews) I would never ever lower myself to buy a Commodore; so if MMAL go bust, Ford Australia can have my dosh when I get a new car in a few years. Even with the release of the VE, my opinion of Holden will not completely change.

Whats the big hoo haa about towing? If most people are to tow and know that there vehicle is to spend most of its life towing they buy a Patrol or a Cruiser! 10 years ago you would have seen big RWD cars like Falcons pulling big boats and vans but now this is becoming less common. People are gravitating to AWD wagons like the Klager and Territory for their practicality and also their towing ability. If people are to tow something it is generally a small single axle trailer or similar. They wouldnt even notice if its FWD or RWD. Thats how fickle the "general public" is.:confused:

I asked my mum last night "is your car fwd or rwd?" She paused and said, "hang on, I think I did know... Wait your dad knows..." Point being, that the general mum and dad population (well maybe not all dads, but most dads don't know) if their car is FWD or RWD. And to be honest, it doesn't even matter. If anything it sways more towards FWD because of generally better fuel economy and being safer in an emergency situation (car aquaplanes in the wet, what's the first thing a mum or dad driver does? TAKES THEIR FOOT OFF THE ACCELERATOR) Great for FWD, disaster for RWD. Anyway, I just think that it really doesn't matter if it's FWD or RWD unless you're talking about performance vehicles.

I asked my mum last night "is your car fwd or rwd?" She paused and said, "hang on, I think I did know... Wait your dad knows..." Point being, that the general mum and dad population (well maybe not all dads, but most dads don't know) if their car is FWD or RWD. And to be honest, it doesn't even matter. If anything it sways more towards FWD because of generally better fuel economy and being safer in an emergency situation (car aquaplanes in the wet, what's the first thing a mum or dad driver does? TAKES THEIR FOOT OFF THE ACCELERATOR) Great for FWD, disaster for RWD. Anyway, I just think that it really doesn't matter if it's FWD or RWD unless you're talking about performance vehicles.
Just my point, who here doesnt want performance. FWD is fine in a small rice burner such as a vtec civic/integra etc, but once the KW's start going up along with car size,things start getting ugly (torque steer, understeer, loss of traction under acceleration etc).Whats the point of having 180+ kws if they cant be used efficiently. I hate to harp on about the fwd vs rwd argument, and I promise this is my last shot at it (remember, I own a TJ sport), But fwd was only ever invented to cut manufacture costs, and cut under hood space so the cabin size can be increased easier. I think we can all agree that the xr6T is a great performing large family sedan. Would it be the same with fwd. I think not. Many testers of the ralliart magna bagged it for having too much power for a front driver, while applauding the vrx.RWD does make a car safer and a nicer drive once the power levels rise to where the 380 is going. And the general public know it!

..

My parents ...experiences with the magna (3 gearboxes blown from towing) they didnt want to touch another FWD.

.....

I have a TJ VR-X auto.. have towed a 1300kg caravan about 4 times.. and a 1000kg one about 6 times b4 that. no dramas here.

Any more details, Bain? :)

I have a TJ VR-X auto.. have towed a 1300kg caravan about 4 times.. and a 1000kg one about 6 times b4 that. no dramas here.

Any more details, Bain? :)

1996 Magna, travelled 30,000km (or there abouts) with a caravan.

Problem with the magna is the max downforce is about 50kg's on the towball. They have stabilisers and stuff put on the caravan, which helped somewhat.. But still it stuffed gearboxes..

My parents travel around Australia a bit since they retired.

Just my point, who here doesnt want performance. FWD is fine in a small rice burner such as a vtec civic/integra etc, but once the KW's start going up along with car size,things start getting ugly (torque steer, understeer, loss of traction under acceleration etc).Whats the point of having 180+ kws if they cant be used efficiently.
I do see where you are coming from here but i will give you an example of what a FWD Magna can do... I went to a club run last year to Winton race track where i mixed it with some very impressive old school performance cars ( GT Falcons both old and new as well as the odd XR8 ) Now my car is a 3 litre TF manual Magna that has been lowered, exhaust and has 16 inch alloys. Thats it. I had the pleasure of going toe to toe with a XR8 ute around Winton. He definately had me in the straights ( 260 kw vs 140 kw will do that!) but in the corners i had him! He could not out corner me! To tell you the truth it pissed me off that he wouldnt let me past but to suffer the humiliation and indignity of being passed by a Magna! Never! My point here is that a well sorted FWD will and can mix it with the RWD brigade. Easily! And successfully. I tell you on the day i was totally gobsmacked on how well the TF went! So were many others.:D

Just my point, who here doesnt want performance. FWD is fine in a small rice burner such as a vtec civic/integra etc, but once the KW's start going up along with car size,things start getting ugly (torque steer, understeer, loss of traction under acceleration etc).Whats the point of having 180+ kws if they cant be used efficiently. I hate to harp on about the fwd vs rwd argument, and I promise this is my last shot at it (remember, I own a TJ sport), But fwd was only ever invented to cut manufacture costs, and cut under hood space so the cabin size can be increased easier. I think we can all agree that the xr6T is a great performing large family sedan. Would it be the same with fwd. I think not. Many testers of the ralliart magna bagged it for having too much power for a front driver, while applauding the vrx.RWD does make a car safer and a nicer drive once the power levels rise to where the 380 is going. And the general public know it!
I see your point here too. But I don't want a hell of a lot of performance as i'm going to be having a family in the next few years. No offence dude, but those guys who drove the Ralliart and said things like "horrid torque steer" etc, are dead set kidding themselves. There is minimal torque steer in a Ralliart and they are a very well setup car to go fast in a straight line or around corners. I know we're getting way off topic now, but look at the new Toyota Aurion. The Sportivo version is going to have 250+kW running through the front wheels, unless they borrow a RWD platform off Lexus or something, but I can't really see that happening for one model. Time i'm done with my car it'll have just over 200hpatw, atm it has 186 and I find it easily manageable.

I do see where you are coming from here but i will give you an example of what a FWD Magna can do... I went to a club run last year to Winton race track where i mixed it with some very impressive old school performance cars ( GT Falcons both old and new as well as the odd XR8 ) Now my car is a 3 litre TF manual Magna that has been lowered, exhaust and has 16 inch alloys. Thats it. I had the pleasure of going toe to toe with a XR8 ute around Winton. He definately had me in the straights ( 260 kw vs 140 kw will do that!) but in the corners i had him! He could not out corner me! To tell you the truth it pissed me off that he wouldnt let me past but to suffer the humiliation and indignity of being passed by a Magna! Never! My point here is that a well sorted FWD will and can mix it with the RWD brigade. Easily! And successfully. I tell you on the day i was totally gobsmacked on how well the TF went! So were many others.:D

Sorry Who9 but you are comparing 2 totally different cars..

A V8 which is heavy in the front end and a ute that has rear leaf springs and common to having the rear end step out.

I think it would have been very different comparing it to a sedan.

well from what i can gather, the 380 was made in fwd for cost cutting, i reckon if they weren't on a slim budget, they would of gone to rwd

well from what i can gather, the 380 was made in fwd for cost cutting, 380 was made fwd because all of MMCs cars are front wheel drive, and the platform it was developed on, the US Galant is a fwd with awd capabilities

Would have made more sense to have gone awd, but this would have resulted in a premium price on the entire 380 range.

Sorry Who9 but you are comparing 2 totally different cars..

A V8 which is heavy in the front end and a ute that has rear leaf springs and common to having the rear end step out.

I think it would have been very different comparing it to a sedan.
While i was going against him it wasnt oversteer that was the issue! He had more problems with understeer than i did. Maybe it was a lead tipped arrow...

While i was going against him it wasnt oversteer that was the issue! He had more problems with understeer than i did. Maybe it was a lead tipped arrow...

Or an incompetent driver aswell.

Who knows.. the main thing is your car handled well on the day :)

Power isnt everything (as you have proved), but for every petrol head out there its certainly number 1 on the list.

Or an incompetent driver aswell.
Dont let all of my secrets out!:shhhh: