I guess this is another 380 series 2 thread, but on a slightly different angle. I hope it hasn't been raised before, anyhow here goes.....

If after 8 months we already have a series 2, does mitsubishi plan to release a new series that often? Going by the life of an average car of it's type (approx 12 years) we will be up to 380 series 18 before the next model comes out.
Maybe they will do a Ford like in the AU Falcon and rename the model after a few series, but the BA was vastly different under the skin than the AU. I don't really see anything that different a few years out for Mitsubishi. Am I alone here ??

I guess this is another 380 series 2 thread, but on a slightly different angle. I hope it hasn't been raised before, anyhow here goes.....

If after 8 months we already have a series 2, does mitsubishi plan to release a new series that often? Going by the life of an average car of it's type (approx 12 years) we will be up to 380 series 18 before the next model comes out.
Maybe they will do a Ford like in the AU Falcon and rename the model after a few series, but the BA was vastly different under the skin than the AU. I don't really see anything that different a few years out for Mitsubishi. Am I alone here ??
err, 12 years for a model? sure, maybee the 3rd gen magna lasted that long. but EA falcon was 89-94, EL/EF 95-1999, AUD 1999-2003. and in the holden range, the VN/VP-VR/VS-VT all had similar runs. I'd say the average life would be about 5 years?

err, 12 years for a model? sure, maybee the 3rd gen magna lasted that long. but EA falcon was 89-94, EL/EF 95-1999, AUD 1999-2003. and in the holden range, the VN/VP-VR/VS-VT all had similar runs. I'd say the average life would be about 5 years?
The EA-EL Falcon are essentially the same car with dress-ups therefor that model ran for 11years. The VN-VZ crumadore are the same car with dress-ups....get my point


If they called it the 380 GA series 1 then 380 GA series 2, then major dress-up changes would be 380 GB etc. As they did with Magna.

If they called it the 380 GA series 1 then 380 GA series 2, then major dress-up changes would be 380 GB etc. As they did with Magna. The series name is DB at the moment.

As for GA?? thats a bit GAy

The EA-EL Falcon are essentially the same car with dress-ups therefor that model ran for 11years. The VN-VZ crumadore are the same car with dress-ups....get my point


If they called it the 380 GA series 1 then 380 GA series 2, then major dress-up changes would be 380 GB etc. As they did with Magna.

The VN-VZ Commodore are not the same car with "dress-ups". The VN-VS are essentially the same, and the VT-VZ are essentially, but a VN and VZ Commodore are 100% different.

When VY Commo Series 2 was released in '03 is was marketed as, in SS form, "the new Series 2 SS Commodore". This 380 Series 2 is really the DB II (like TJ S2).

As for lifecycles, the current 380 is scheduled to last 6 years up until 2011. The previous TE Magna lasted 9 years. Average is certainly more than 5 years.

Ford wanted everyone to see the EF Falcon as an "ALL-NEW" car, but it was still an EA, only heavily restyled - like AU is to BA. As we know in 3rd Gen Magna's case 9 years is a long time so to differentiate the different model upgrades, like every single other road vehicle sold, they're given different model alocations. Even mobile phones, printers, computers, calculators. You name it almost everything manufactured in the engineering/electrical industry is marketed with different alocated 'series'.

So not sure where the "new name" idea came from, but this is exactly what a series 2 is - an ever-so-slight update, nothing more. It will still be remembered as a DB 380 when we see it on the road in future.

Next year when 380 undergoes an update with more than just aesthetic changes, (restyled grille, updated mechanicals etc) it will be alocated a different SERIES name, eg DC or DE.

The history of the Magna is that it has (like Camry) been updated more regularly than Commodore and Falcon, however they have had more major mid-life changes. The original Magna ran from 1985-1991 (6 years), TR-TS ran from 1991-1996 (5 years) and the TE-TL 1996-2005 (9 years). As a guess I would assume they are able to change models more frequently because they are designed for a global market whereas Falcodores are only made for Aus.
However, do we know where the next Mitsu large car will come from? Before the 380 the Magna was based on the Japanese Diamante and now the 380 is based on the US Galant. Will the 2011 model be based on a Galant or be something different? I suspect Mitsubishi probably doesn't even know this yet - although they probably have an idea or two that are dependent on their financial situation.

Build it and they will come (from ground up)

The history of the Magna is that it has (like Camry) been updated more regularly than Commodore and Falcon, however they have had more major mid-life changes. The original Magna ran from 1985-1991 (6 years), TR-TS ran from 1991-1996 (5 years) and the TE-TL 1996-2005 (9 years). As a guess I would assume they are able to change models more frequently because they are designed for a global market whereas Falcodores are only made for Aus.
However, do we know where the next Mitsu large car will come from? Before the 380 the Magna was based on the Japanese Diamante and now the 380 is based on the US Galant. Will the 2011 model be based on a Galant or be something different? I suspect Mitsubishi probably doesn't even know this yet - although they probably have an idea or two that are dependent on their financial situation.
If they (MMAL) continue to manufacture vehicles past 2011, it'll likely be something different. Good chance it won't be called 380, though it all depends on what the automotive scene is like 5 years from now, and as you know, how MMAL is travelling in the bank balance stakes. Could be anything from a large-medium car like the 380, a hybrid, 4WD, turbodiesel, or all of the above.

I just don't think it'll happen - closing the Lonsdale plant I believe was the beginning of the end. Whilst there's heaps of export potential for 380, and realistic opportunities for it to reach, even exceed targets, it may all be in vain (sorry for being devastatingly blunt).

There is always a way, we just have to find it. MMAL must find a way to ensure the long term future post 380.

do we know where the next Mitsu large car will come from? Before the 380 the Magna was based on the Japanese Diamante and now the 380 is based on the US Galant. Will the 2011 model be based on a Galant or be something different? I suspect Mitsubishi probably doesn't even know this yet - although they probably have an idea or two that are dependent on their financial situation.

Mitsubishi Australia's (MMAL) next car could be an altered version of the next generation Mitsubishi Galant, which is expected to appear mid-late 2008. By the time our stylists play around with it and make it suitable for Australia it could be 2010-2011. Depending on what technology is available to Mitsubishi Australia on the next model they have the oppurtunity to build and extremely desirable car. If they could aquire some MIEV (Mitsubishi-Innovative-Eletric-Vehicle) technology into the next Galant and sit it next to the update by then 2.4l (which will be replaced by a 2.5l i think) which could offer around 140kw and the MIEV could offer and additional say 15-20kw in each wheel, or a central motor with around 60-80kw. If they could do this a car like the next-gen 380 (which would hopefully be lighter then the current one due to a smaller engine and greater use of all-alluminum roofing, bonnets and engines) they could have a car that could achieve 6-7 litres/100km; and, if that is the way that the market is headed and the VE only has a diesel option that achieves 10l/100km and is slower and less powerful then the next gen 380MIEV (or 240MV) then MMAL would be raking in the $$$$ if it was similar priced to the VE at that time.

That is of course, considering that people have a demand for large cars in 4-5years time. Which could well be if they have decent fuel consumption.

The series name is DB at the moment.

As for GA?? thats a bit GAy

Ah, there you go. I didn't know that it had the model designation of DB. Now I retract this whole thread. Without the DB and therefore DC etc to follow it was like calling it the Magna Series 3. :redface:

GA was just an example. I used it because it was based on a GAlant :bowrofl:

The VN-VZ Commodore are not the same car with "dress-ups". The VN-VS are essentially the same, and the VT-VZ are essentially, but a VN and VZ Commodore are 100% different.

Ok then. The vn-vy series 2 is the same. 1989 - 2005? 16 years.

And no, they are not 100% different - they share everything under neath. thats why the vy couldnt get entered into wheels car of the year, it was basically a vn with a body kit and custom interior.

Oh, and vz shares the exhaust and 4spd auto that im awar of with the vn, so they arnt 100% different.... :roll:


I think the reason series 2 is out this early is because they need to do something to sell it. If they start to run them out now, you will find the price may slowly go back up and model changes will get further and further apart.

Ok then. The vn-vy series 2 is the same. 1989 - 2005? 16 years.

And no, they are not 100% different - they share everything under neath. thats why the vy couldnt get entered into wheels car of the year, it was basically a vn with a body kit and custom interior.


Um.. are you on drugs? So the VY Commodore couldn't get entered into wheels car of the year because it was a VN Commodore with a bodykit and custom interior :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: Just so you know the VN Commodore, VR Commodore and VT Commodore ALL won wheels car of the year, so your reasoning is invalid. Do u even know what a VN Commodore looks like? Do you know that the VN Commodore has the Buick engine and the VY has the Ecotec engine? There's not one exterior component on the VY Commodore which was on the VN Commodore. They are completely different.

And to correct you, the VN Commodore came out in 1988 not 1989 and the VY Series 2 Commodore finished in 2004 not 2005.

Just because a car shares the same platform does not mean it's essentially the same car. The platform that the VE Commodore is built on will be used on other European cars. It doesn't mean they are essentially the same cars.

I dare you to go to a Holden dealership and tell them that a VZ or VY Commodore is essentially the same as a VN Commodore. They'll just laugh at you.

What you're saying is the VY Commodore is essentially the same as the VN Commodore, but the VZ Commodore is vastly different to the VY Commodore?! I'll give you a tip. The VZ Commodore was based off the VY Commodore which is why it's pretty much identical to the VY Commodore except for the engine. And even then, the engine responds, feels and sounds much like the Ecotec engine anyway.

Oh yeah and by the way, the Mitsubishi 380 is just a TM Magna with a bodykit and "custom" interior :bowrofl: That means it's 21 years old which is why it didn't win wheels car of the year :nuts:

Um.. are you on drugs? So the VY Commodore couldn't get entered into wheels car of the year because it was a VN Commodore with a bodykit and custom interior :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: Just so you know the VN Commodore, VR Commodore and VT Commodore ALL won wheels car of the year, so your reasoning is invalid. Do u even know what a VN Commodore looks like? Do you know that the VN Commodore has the Buick engine and the VY has the Ecotec engine? There's not one exterior component on the VY Commodore which was on the VN Commodore. They are completely different.

And to correct you, the VN Commodore came out in 1988 not 1989 and the VY Series 2 Commodore finished in 2004 not 2005.

Just because a car shares the same platform does not mean it's essentially the same car. The platform that the VE Commodore is built on will be used on other European cars. It doesn't mean they are essentially the same cars.

I dare you to go to a Holden dealership and tell them that a VZ or VY Commodore is essentially the same as a VN Commodore. They'll just laugh at you.

What you're saying is the VY Commodore is essentially the same as the VN Commodore, but the VZ Commodore is vastly different to the VY Commodore?! I'll give you a tip. The VZ Commodore was based off the VY Commodore which is why it's pretty much identical to the VY Commodore except for the engine. And even then, the engine responds, feels and sounds much like the Ecotec engine anyway.

Oh yeah and by the way, the Mitsubishi 380 is just a TM Magna with a bodykit and "custom" interior :bowrofl: That means it's 21 years old which is why it didn't win wheels car of the year :nuts:


Ecotech and buick are the same engine arn't they, just the ecotech was a buick with ecotech technology. Ive driven a vy, and to be honest, it was no different to a vn. it sounded the same, performed the same, even the steering and brakes felt the same. Which pretty much felt like a vz. Ever driven a 380 or a TM? much much different. As far as im concered, if i purchased a 2005 model caprice v6 (60+k) and then found out it had a gearbox in it which had been doing the rounds for the last 16years, and an engine and suspension that was the same as a 16 year old car i would be spewing. And then when i found out that the were actually about 30 years old and came out of an old buick parts bin i'd be even more pissed off.

Oh, thanks also for letting me know who the reasoning police are. Ill be waiting for my fine in the mail.


Thats why i'd buy a 380gt anyday.

And even then, the engine responds, feels and sounds much like the Ecotec engine anyway.

Maybe to some, but that was certainly not my experience after driving my mates VZ Ute. While the engine doesn't feel silky smooth as a stock Magna 3.0 or 3.5, it's not far off.

The power delivery has nothing in common to the 3.8, it builds power very smoothly and feels like it posses a very flat torque curve and it can certainly rev (never feeling restricted at high rpm). And in manual form (as I drove it) it can pull from low revs without effort, not an under performer thats for sure, well in my first hand experience anyway. :)

Thats why i'd buy a 380gt anyday.

Well put your money where your mouth is and buy one! Considering how good you claim the 380 is with its new technology and all, it can't even beat the "VN" turned "VZ" Commodore in sales after discounting its price to $27,990. I wonder why? Maybe because the VY/VZ Commodore is completely different to the VN.

I'm not going to bother arguing any further with a moron who probably hasn't driven any of the above mentioned cars, and has zero knowledge on Holdens - doesn't even know when the VN Commodore came out or VY series stopped, and has to ask whether the buick and ecotec engine are indeed based from the same original engine. I think this speaks for itself.

Well put your money where your mouth is and buy one! Considering how good you claim the 380 is with its new technology and all, it can't even beat the "VN" turned "VZ" Commodore in sales after discounting its price to $27,990. I wonder why? Maybe because the VY/VZ Commodore is completely different to the VN.

I'm not going to bother arguing any further with a moron who probably hasn't driven any of the above mentioned cars, and has zero knowledge on Holdens - doesn't even know when the VN Commodore came out or VY series stopped, and has to ask whether the buick and ecotec engine are indeed based from the same original engine. I think this speaks for itself.

The 380 is new technology compared to the VZ (the VZ engine is higher technology specced on paper but in reality isn't). When people say the VN and VZ have alot in common it's a load of crap. The VT is very similar to the VZ and nearly identical to the VY. The VY is closer spec to the VN, but the VY has an ecotech 3.8 rather then the older non-ecotech (I spose I'll call it standard) 3.8. The gearbox is really the only thing the VZ shares in common with the VN; which is somewhat dissapointing (with the VE this will be rectified, and thank-god for that!).

Finally....The 380 deserves to outsell the VZ, but, even while priced can never be expected to outsell the VZ. The VZ is an old car, but isn't that bad in terms of looks, performance and interior specs considering it's esentially an upgraded VT and considering the decent brand image Holden currently have they are likely to dominate in the future.

...Well put your money where your mouth is and buy one! Considering how good you claim the 380 is with its new technology and all, it can't even beat the "VN" turned "VZ" Commodore in sales after discounting its price to $27,990. I wonder why? Maybe because the VY/VZ Commodore is completely different to the VN...
...umm, maybe because Holden have more than 3 times as many dealerships than Mitsubishi, and currently produce more than 4 times as many cars for local sale (inc wagon/utes). MMAL can make more money than Holden by selling 380's at less than half the rate of Commondorks.

Don't give any real credit to Wheels COTY. Them giving the gong to every single all-new or heavily updated Crappodore in history says alot. A bit like the Queen giving Prince Harry a bravery award (I know that's a little leftfield but those of you who have a brain can figure it out).

That brings me to my final point. VP Vanqish and FFEEky, I personally think you're BOTH idiots.:nuts: NEITHER of you have any idea on what your talking about, and I wouldn't know where to start.

That brings me to my final point. VP Vanqish and FFEEky, I personally think you're BOTH idiots. NEITHER of you have any idea on what your talking about, and I wouldn't know where to start.

Like your style---straight to the truth :bowrofl:

That brings me to my final point. VP Vanqish and FFEEky, I personally think you're BOTH idiots.:nuts: NEITHER of you have any idea on what your talking about, and I wouldn't know where to start.

If you're going to call someone an idiot at least learn how to spell their name correctly and understand the difference between there, their and they're. I believe most people learn this in primary school. Some clearly didn't.

...umm, maybe because Holden have more than 3 times as many dealerships than Mitsubishi, and currently produce more than 4 times as many cars for local sale (inc wagon/utes). MMAL can make more money than Holden by selling 380's at less than half the rate of Commondorks.

It's demand and supply fool. Holden has 3 times as many dealerships than Mitsubishi and produce 4 times as many cars for local sale because there is strong demand for Holdens, primarily because of the Commodore.

You don't increase sales (demand) by increasing your number of dealerships and the number of cars you produce (supply). You can only increase the number of dealerships you have and the number of cars you produce (supply) due to an increase in demand of your goods (demand).

There is such a thing as fixed costs, plant and equipment, salaries, rent expenses, materials etc. You can't sell 380s at less than half the rate of Commodores because you won't have a gross profit margin - it will be a loss per unit produced. At that rate a company might as well sell everything it has and invest in government bonds.

If you're going to call someone an idiot at least learn how to spell their name correctly and understand the difference between there, their and they're. I believe most people learn this in primary school. Some clearly didn't.

(NB- refer to sig...)

Sorry for the typo, please forgive me... no, seriously, PLEASE - otherwise I simply cannot go on and I'll jump off the West Gate.

So "Vanquish" is on your birth certificate? I don't give a rats about spelling some moron's nickname properly, but you have to gain credibility first - won't happen here while you drive a vehicle with a red lion badge.

Also, please tell me where the spell check is on this forum:nuts: But, try as I might, I could not find where I used the words "there" (a word in which one indicates a position or place); "their" (in reference to a person, group or entity); or "they're" (the two words 'they are' brought together:shock:, in description, location, or status of a person, group or entity).

The basis of our argument however is not whether I'm either a little or incredibly more intelligent than you, it's about 380 vs Commodore. MMAL have said themselves even 12 months before 380's release that it won't be a direct competitor with Falcodores - has nothing to do with supply vs demand. If we were to use your baseless theory, then why doesn't Ford build more cars and have more dealerships than Holden?

Don't you dare call me a fool when you think supply and demand is all that it is - there's a lot more to it than that - things that narrow minded people such as yourself probably haven't even thought of.

If you are (or "you're") having difficulty in getting your point across here, why not take a leaf out of the philosophical book of one Homer J. Simpson... "son, if something's to hard to do, then it's not worth doing. Let's watch TV."

err, GO THE APOSTROPHE!:nutkick:

VeradaBoy, you do realise you just payed yourself out?

You started with



....it (380) can't even beat the "VN" turned "VZ" Commodore in sales after discounting its price to $27,990. I wonder why?....

.....umm, maybe because Holden have more than 3 times as many dealerships than Mitsubishi, and currently produce more than 4 times as many cars for local sale (inc wagon/utes)......

And then go to say

..... MMAL have said themselves even 12 months before 380's release that it won't be a direct competitor with Falcodores - has nothing to do with supply vs demand. If we were to use your baseless theory, then why doesn't Ford build more cars and have more dealerships than Holden?

Don't you dare call me a fool when you think supply and demand is all that it is - there's a lot more to it than that.....

So do they sell more because they have more dealerships and make more or not? :nuts:


BTW: Regarding my previous posts, all im saying is that the vz is not 100% different from vz. thats all. :roll:

So do they sell more because they have more dealerships and make more or not? :nuts:

BTW: Regarding my previous posts, all im saying is that the vz is not 100% different from vz. thats all. :roll:

Fair enough mate I'll take back those comments directed at you, but not the other guy. As for your question (quoted above), the answer really is yes but I'm not sure what your point is. Perhaps you need to read my last post again.

In terms of MMAL we all know their situation so there's little need to go on about it. But the essence of my argument stemmed from comments regarding 380's inability to outsell the Commodore. Most intelligent people on this forum would consider it to be a no brainer.

Yes supply and demand is a factor, but it's almost juvenile to suggest it's the ONLY factor. That was my point. MMAL are a "small volume" manufacturer - they are not meant to compete with GMH and Ford who have the PLANT CAPACITY to manufacture more than 100,000 vehicles per year including exports (well GMH do at least - Ford aren't too far behind). At the moment Tonsley Park does not have the capacity to build any more than about 40,000 vehicles (only another multi-multi-million-dollar investment will change that); in fact the rate is such that total volume built over a year is currently less than 20,000. That last point IS to do with supply and demand.

Then, of course, we have the bogan popularity of all things Holden and the extent to which all Commondorks are overrated by everyone. It's an unwarranted and undeserved reputation that sadly will not change. But hey that's life - it ain't fair.

I can see where aspects of this topic can be a little grey, but that doesn't mean people can come on here, post their nonsensical gibberish and not expect to be taken to task.

Edit: VP Vanquish, why have MMAL introduced 10 new dealerships across Syney and Melbourne? Due to demand? No, but to CREATE demand!!!

Fair enough mate I'll take back those comments directed at you, but not the other guy. As for your question (quoted above), the answer really is yes but I'm not sure what your point is. Perhaps you need to read my last post again.

In terms of MMAL we all know their situation so there's little need to go on about it. But the essence of my argument stemmed from comments regarding 380's inability to outsell the Commodore. Most intelligent people on this forum would consider it to be a no brainer.

Yes supply and demand is a factor, but it's almost juvenile to suggest it's the ONLY factor. That was my point. MMAL are a "small volume" manufacturer - they are not meant to compete with GMH and Ford who have the PLANT CAPACITY to manufacture more than 100,000 vehicles per year including exports (well GMH do at least - Ford aren't too far behind). At the moment Tonsley Park does not have the capacity to build any more than about 40,000 vehicles (only another multi-multi-million-dollar investment will change that); in fact the rate is such that total volume built over a year is currently less than 20,000. That last point IS to do with supply and demand.

Then, of course, we have the bogan popularity of all things Holden and the extent to which all Commondorks are overrated by everyone. It's an unwarranted and undeserved reputation that sadly will not change. But hey that's life - it ain't fair.

I can see where aspects of this topic can be a little grey, but that doesn't mean people can come on here, post their nonsensical gibberish and not expect to be taken to task.

Edit: VP Vanquish, why have MMAL introduced 10 new dealerships across Syney and Melbourne? Due to demand? No, but to CREATE demand!!!

I see your point now. I still don't understand VP though....

Boy, this thread has degraded somewhat :shock:

keep going im loving this!!:bowrofl:

just another load of 380 vs other local brands bull**** - these kinds of threads are exactly why i do not post in this section anymore....get over it everyone, there is more to life than the 380