In the meantime, I am arranging a before and after dyno run so power curves can be analysed and people can see a black & white improvement so they can see what their $850 buys.

*starts jumping up and down in anticipation*

I want so so much to be able to throw down the money and buy one of these things (and a flowed TB) right now. Just a little longer to wait until I can have such money to spend, but I'm more than confident it will be worth every penny once I can afford it. :)

*starts jumping up and down in anticipation*

Don't worry - I'd luv to sell one to you. The only downside is now my AWD is as fast a FWD, once every bugger has a manifold I'll be back in the slow lane :cry:

*** URGENT UPDATE ***

How this slipped my mind I don't know -> I bought a strut brace on sunday night and it fits over the manifold with like 30mm spare. That's a big relief for many members - esp since they'll need the improved front end dynamics with the extra power :D

*** URGENT UPDATE ***

How this slipped my mind I don't know -> I bought a strut brace on sunday night and it fits over the manifold with like 30mm spare. That's a big relief for many members - esp since they'll need the improved front end dynamics with the extra power :D


maybe you should be selling your manifold with strut braces. just for legal purposes. :bowrofl:

I just want one of these babies right now!

Ian, will be good to see how the plenum goes on my new engine.

Would be great to have one whilst ive got the new engine on the engine dyno but i think my engine will be in the car before your plenum is in production..... Either way i will try to do back to back dyno runs on a normal dyno when i get hold of the plenum, will be good to see some nice high numbers again :P

I bought a strut brace on sunday night and it fits over the manifold with like 30mm spare. That's a big relief for many members - esp since they'll need the improved front end dynamics with the extra power :D
Gold, Ian, Gold.

Hey Any updates on this?

The manifold should be getting dyno tested on my car on the 24th (next thursday). I'm also hoping to get my emanage installed and tuned on the same day, so we can have dyno results for both the manifold on its own, and also post-tune results.

The manifold should be getting dyno tested on my car on the 24th (next thursday). I'm also hoping to get my emanage installed and tuned on the same day, so we can have dyno results for both the manifold on its own, and also post-tune results.

The location is TOP SECRET because as much as we'd luv to have everyone interested coming along, between chin-wagging and story-swapping we'd never get anything done! :cool:

There will be plenty of opportunity at later dates to check the manifold out at AMC events etc, including your change to WIN the #1 plated manifold just by donating to AMC. Contact the Admin team for details on how to support your club and every $10 donated will get you an entry into the draw. More details on this will be made available in the next month as production details etc and the finer points are made with the Admin team.

Want to get in line to order. Thanks.

I'll give a "hell yeah!" for one of these beauties... (1 to go plz..:D )

Cheers..:)

As ive said in a many PM Ian, If the results speak for themselves, count me in.

Regards
Alex

Same for me, if the results are there, and no problems become apparent, im in as well.

i may have missed a previous post, but what would the cost of one of these babies be?

The latest pics are of Proto 2, proto 1 was thrown back into the furnace after notes were taken. Proto 2 is practically production ready. I am going to make some cosmetic changes along with an appearance upgrade so that people know it's MY manifold under their bonnet not just an oem item. Will still look stocko, but Magna people will know. Additionally this will help the cast pouring and give a better finish/presentation to the final product.

Once these changes are made, I will start taking orders. In the meantime, I am arranging a before and after dyno run so power curves can be analysed and people can see a black & white improvement so they can see what their $850 buys.


hope this helps
:cool:

hope this helps
:cool:


ahhk cool thanks. tried to do a thread search, but me no good with searching lol.
from what ive read, i would say a liitle pricey but worth it. shall start saving now :D

i would say a liitle pricey


i hope you are joking


Price per Unit (Package): $1 100.00

i hope you are joking


haha not in that way.
what i meant to say was pricey for my budget :D.
im just a poor teenager.
hence the line i need to start saving

Hey Ian.


What are the updates on this? When are we going to see some numbers?

im pretty sure he said it was getting dyno'ed tomorrow....

Roll on Thursday night with some facts, figures and graphs to show how good the new plenum and runner design is!!!


Gerry

I foresee a pretty graph showing a lovely torque curve and some wonderful smooth exponential power curve.

Closely followed by EZ's PM box filling.
Closely followed by his bank account filling back up again. :)

I foresee a pretty graph showing a lovely torque curve and some wonderful smooth exponential power curve.
Closely followed by EZ's PM box filling.
Closely followed by his bank account filling back up again. :)Let's hope :pray:
Magna's deserve a good proven 'bang-for-buck' performance mod. :badgrin:
EZ Boy deserves the $$$ for the time/effort/cost invested. :bowdown:

Let's hope :pray:
Magna's deserve a good proven 'bang-for-buck' performance mod. :badgrin:
EZ Boy deserves the $$$ for the time/effort/cost invested. :bowdown:

I agree... the 350Z has a bolt on 'lower plennum' for it and it is claimed to make 10~20bhp..:shock:

Surely the magna manafold would have similar gains...

I agree... the 350Z has a bolt on 'lower plennum' for it and it is claimed to make 10~20bhp..:shock:

Surely the magna manafold would have similar gains...

For all the hype and price tag one would hope it nets more than 10hp, although I suppose it's mid range torque that will make the difference.

For all the hype and price tag one would hope it nets more than 10hp, although I suppose it's mid range torque that will make the difference.

What the EZBOY one? Yeah for sure!! mind you thats 10~20bhp.. which equates to about 7.5~15kw at the wheels... I hope we see that kind of gain with this manafold...

The only probem i see with the test car, is that it is not stock... it has extractors which will/may effect the out come of the manafold... I think..

The only probem i see with the test car, is that it is not stock... it has extractors which will/may effect the out come of the manafold... I think..

Works for me, mine's got extractors and a full system so hopefully it'll give me a fairly accurate picture of possible gains.

I am very eagerly looking forward to tomorrows results. :)

The only probem i see with the test car, is that it is not stock... it has extractors which will/may effect the out come of the manafold... I think..

Yeah i'd rather see a dyno on a bog stock 3.5 manual before and after.

Yeah i'd rather see a dyno on a bog stock 3.5 manual before and after.
It is unlikely anyone purchasing one of these is likely to have no mods prior to purchasing it. I mentioned in another post I wish i got one of these instead of my exhaust system. Bear in mind i have a Sports and had already got the rear sports muffler. The rear muffler upgrade should be the absolute bare minimum before this upgrade to see more benefit from it.
Any mod will beniifit a car, its just by how much. But for the majority that are interested in this mod need to see its results coupled with the few basic bolt-ons most members have already.

Manifold is being dynoed on my car tomorow. We will be doing back to back runs with the stock manifold, and then the new manifold. Should be able to post up a dyno graph late tomorow.

Also I intend to get my emanage fitted and tuned ASAP, so we can have post-tune results as well. Will be interesting to see how much extra benefit comes out of the manifold with a suitable tune.

While I think we will see good results from the manifold on its own, I think it will absolutely shine with "bigger" cams and associated mods, as the flow requirements will likely be MUCH higher than what the factory manifold is supposed to cope with.

It's good to be finally getting some concrete figures, I am really hoping for good results. EZboy really deserves to see some fruit for his immense effort, and a nice easy effective bolt-on mod appeals to AMC I'm sure.

I foresee a pretty graph showing a lovely torque curve and some wonderful smooth exponential power curve.

Closely followed by EZ's PM box filling.
Closely followed by his bank account filling back up again. :)

You are severely over estimating the AMC community. Going from what I've seen on these forums time and time again, alot of members are "all talk" when it comes to modding their cars.

I'm sorry to say it, but I'd be very surprised if EZboy saw more than half a dozen sales this year. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong though.

Im Sure you will. :cool:

You are severely over estimating the AMC community. Going from what I've seen on these forums time and time again, alot of members are "all talk" when it comes to modding their cars.

I'm sorry to say it, but I'd be very surprised if EZboy saw more than half a dozen sales this year. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong though.

Hmmm, if that's true, that really sucks the long one.
I for one know that I'm flat broke at the moment, but I'm gradually saving up money with the objective of buying all of the little cool bits and peices currently on offer via AMC members. (EG. EZ flowed TB, barry's earthing kit, fuel rail kit & gasket kit and finally; the big one, the EZ Boy Manifold)
I know it's going to take me a while to get them all, but I fully intend to do it bit by bit as I manage to save up money.

To that end... I think I've got enough money for the flowed TB and the Barry's kits now. Methinks stage 1 customisations begin very soon.

You are severely over estimating the AMC community. Going from what I've seen on these forums time and time again, alot of members are "all talk" when it comes to modding their cars.

I'm sorry to say it, but I'd be very surprised if EZboy saw more than half a dozen sales this year. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong though.

Hopefully you are, as I think I speak for a few of us when I say it'd be a disappointment for EZ to go through so much, for us, and have it thrown back in his face.

Hopefully you are, as I think I speak for a few of us when I say it'd be a disappointment for EZ to go through so much, for us, and have it thrown back in his face.

i definitely know i am getting one got the money sitting in a seperate account ready and waiting, just adding to it for the piggyback and cams now :D

I know there's a lot of chaff with the wheat regarding solid interest in buying the manifolds, but I knew that up front.

I honestly believe that the manifold will replace extractors and exhaust as the first serious costing mod people perform on their cars - tomorrow I will show what can be done with a car that is practically at the limit of bolt-on improvements, as many AMCers are. People in the modding community have fallen into a rut where the mindset is "only gains can be made on the exhaust side of the motor". This mindset exists because no one has spent the time and money on a project such as this. Pipe is cheap and every bugger can weld so extractors and various combinations of cats, pipes and mufflers are promoted with endless promise. It's no good trying to scavenge what very little is given up by stock cams and poor combustion. Lets get the combustion right, the volumetric efficiency up, and start getting serious about our demands for camshafts. Another area of concern is the PCV valve and it's direct venting into the lower inlet manifold. Need to get some kits done and DIY tech data up for noobs and the non mechanically minded.

I assure members that things are going to change in the aftermarket scene for natch asp in a very positive way. :thumbsup:

Watch this space!!!!!

Im tempted just to buy one and having sitting there on my bench just looking at it. Shame it wont work on the Paj..... :( Go on EZBOY your a creative fella im sure you will come up with something ;)

start getting serious about our demands for camshafts.

I agree with you, there is very little choice in the way of aftermarket cams for the Magnas, if there was more options at slightly more competitive prices there would be allot more people modding Magnas. We already know with the right combination they can produce some decent power. :)

EZ Boy,
Great work. Guinea pig well chosen for the dyno runs today.

I am from the old school and agree with you that the idea that there is not much potential in the 6G72 and 74 engines apart from the CAI, TB and exhaust mods.

Yes cylinder heads are better designed today, Yes we now have 4 valves per cylinder. No we don't have quad cam, No we don't have Vtec, No we don;t have variable length inlet tracts.

But the compression ratio is very low for a modern engine, basically because of the very poor quality fuel in Australia.

Nuff said.
However look at the outputs that the serious NA members are achieving.
Just look at it sensibly.
9.4 instead of 9.0 compression
cheap extractors
tiny bit of head work in the inlet valve tracts- just in one place.
Sports rear muffler.
Stage 0.5 cams
ECU retune to improve the AFR.

What do you get --180KW.

This is with standard inlet manifold
standard throttle body
standard air intake etc. etc.


Now start to factor in what is possible.

Decent inlet manifold and plenum with enough volume in the plenum and the air flow from the main plenum to the tracts smoothed up a bit.

Worked heads, properly smoothed and shaped inlet tracts, 5 angle valve seats, valve stems tidied up. Unfortunately this is now quite expensive as it requires a head gasket kit as well to fit.

If a standard angine - deck the heads to achieve 9.4 CR, otherwise the expensive way is to fit Pajero pistons.

Lower manifold cleaned up and matched to top manifold and heads.

Stage 1 or 2 cams, zeroed correctly.
BTW don't get me started about adjustable cam gears, they only mean that the cam grinder is too lazy to align the grind to the dowels. or wants to do a universal grind for the 6G72 and 6G 74 engine so one is wrong. Say around $1100.
I seem to remember that TzaBoy? gave some very good advice about suitable cam profiles.
Talk to Tighe cams about this?

Proper exhaust manifolds with nice long primaries. e.g. Pacemakers or the RPW "race" set.
If you have an AWD there really isn't much choice apart from the RPW and the HM headers sets.

Throttle body. at a minimum this needs the EZ Boy magic touch to clean things up. Our T/B is quite big compared to the Falcadore so I suspect that the size doesn't need to be increased until there is serious way over 200Kw power.

Aftermarket ECU.
Again from comments the Haltech appears the way to go.
Tune properly for good mid range.
I know that boasting rights go for ultimate horsepower, however if you have a daily driver then just a little compromise towards the weak area will mean that the car will be just as quick and be so much more rewarding to drive in traffic.

Think that the baseline is really 180KW, what modifications will give good improvements above this.
So really it be the aim to have around 210 to 215KW, engine.

Gerry

EZ Boy,
Great work. Guinea pig well chosen for the dyno runs today.

I am from the old school and agree with you that the idea that there is not much potential in the 6G72 and 74 engines apart from the CAI, TB and exhaust mods.

Yes cylinder heads are better designed today, Yes we now have 4 valves per cylinder. No we don't have quad cam, No we don't have Vtec, No we don;t have variable length inlet tracts.

But the compression ratio is very low for a modern engine, basically because of the very poor quality fuel in Australia.

Nuff said.
However look at the outputs that the serious NA members are achieving.
Just look at it sensibly.
9.4 instead of 9.0 compression
cheap extractors
tiny bit of head work in the inlet valve tracts- just in one place.
Sports rear muffler.
Stage 0.5 cams
ECU retune to improve the AFR.

What do you get --180KW.

This is with standard inlet manifold
standard throttle body
standard air intake etc. etc.


Now start to factor in what is possible.

Decent inlet manifold and plenum with enough volume in the plenum and the air flow from the main plenum to the tracts smoothed up a bit.

Worked heads, properly smoothed and shaped inlet tracts, 5 angle valve seats, valve stems tidied up. Unfortunately this is now quite expensive as it requires a head gasket kit as well to fit.

If a standard angine - deck the heads to achieve 9.4 CR, otherwise the expensive way is to fit Pajero pistons.

Lower manifold cleaned up and matched to top manifold and heads.

Stage 1 or 2 cams, zeroed correctly.
BTW don't get me started about adjustable cam gears, they only mean that the cam grinder is too lazy to align the grind to the dowels. or wants to do a universal grind for the 6G72 and 6G 74 engine so one is wrong. Say around $1100.
I seem to remember that TzaBoy? gave some very good advice about suitable cam profiles.
Talk to Tighe cams about this?

Proper exhaust manifolds with nice long primaries. e.g. Pacemakers or the RPW "race" set.
If you have an AWD there really isn't much choice apart from the RPW and the HM headers sets.

Throttle body. at a minimum this needs the EZ Boy magic touch to clean things up. Our T/B is quite big compared to the Falcadore so I suspect that the size doesn't need to be increased until there is serious way over 200Kw power.

Aftermarket ECU.
Again from comments the Haltech appears the way to go.
Tune properly for good mid range.
I know that boasting rights go for ultimate horsepower, however if you have a daily driver then just a little compromise towards the weak area will mean that the car will be just as quick and be so much more rewarding to drive in traffic.

Think that the baseline is really 180KW, what modifications will give good improvements above this.
So really it be the aim to have around 210 to 215KW, engine.

Gerry

Ive given plenty of members on here advice on suitable cam specs and other mods to do to there 3.5L engines.

Im happy to discuss the above with any member via PM only, this is how others have contacted me. :) As EzBoy (Ian) knows i dont talk crap, i tell it how it is and what has worked on the engines ive built.

Stage 1 or 2 cams, zeroed correctly.
BTW don't get me started about adjustable cam gears, they only mean that the cam grinder is too lazy to align the grind to the dowels. or wants to do a universal grind for the 6G72 and 6G 74 engine so one is wrong. Say around $1100.
I seem to remember that TzaBoy? gave some very good advice about suitable cam profiles.
Talk to Tighe cams about this?

I know that boasting rights go for ultimate horsepower, however if you have a daily driver then just a little compromise towards the weak area will mean that the car will be just as quick and be so much more rewarding to drive in traffic.

Gerry

You talk about cam grinders being too lazy and not use adjustable cam gears, and then recommend Tighe cams, who make them WTF:nuts: Maybe you are talking about a supplier...
Then about the boasting rights..well this is where the adjustable cam gears come into play, to increase top end for the h.p boasting rights at the loss of lower, or vice versa, get a combo of both for that extra rewarding drive, pending on whether you have an auto or manual.e.g i wanted a little more top end so I dialed in at 2 degrees retarded cos I a have a 5sp auto. The 4 spd are a bit taller and might be better for a advancing.(i would of thought)
I would recommend the extra $250 if you are doing cams.

Anyway, we all looking forward to the results tonight.

No you misunderstand.

If the cam requirement is correctly specified and understood by the customer and grinder then there should be no need to have cam gears.

You advise changing the cam timing to change the power curve shape.
Surely there would be more benefit in getting the profile right in relation to the drive pin.

BTW. I have nothing to do with any tuning or cam suppliers. I work in an iron foundry, but before that worked for 22 years for Ford in the UK in a variety of engineering and management positions.
Gerry

No you misunderstand.

If the cam requirement is correctly specified and understood by the customer and grinder then there should be no need to have cam gears.

You advise changing the cam timing to change the power curve shape.
Surely there would be more benefit in getting the profile right in relation to the drive pin.



I agree.. there chould be no need to adjust cam timing.. ESPECIALLY on a SOHC motor.. seems :nuts: to me...

DOHC.. yeah sure... but SOHC.. that just does nto sound right...

DOHC.. yeah sure... but SOHC.. that just does nto sound right...

Yeah, I was under the impression cam gears were pointless on a SOHC engine?

Anybody knowledgeable in the area care to shed some light?

No you misunderstand.

If the cam requirement is correctly specified and understood by the customer and grinder then there should be no need to have cam gears.

You advise changing the cam timing to change the power curve shape.
Surely there would be more benefit in getting the profile right in relation to the drive pin.

BTW. I have nothing to do with any tuning or cam suppliers. I work in an iron foundry, but before that worked for 22 years for Ford in the UK in a variety of engineering and management positions.
Gerry

oh o.k The cams i thought you were referring to RPW's "lazy"cams as they do the Adj. cam gears...Tighe make their cams. And why not be able to change the power curve? Surely an auto with the same mods as a manual could benefit from a bit of advancing when using a mild cam..no? And you forgot to mention in your last post that Mitsubishi changed the cam timing 6 degrees retarded to get that 180kw...anyhoo nuff said

Yeah, I was under the impression cam gears were pointless on a SOHC engine?

Anybody knowledgeable in the area care to shed some light?
Less effective because you shift both inlet and exhaust valve timing, where as on a DOHC motor you can shift the inlet and exhaust valve timing indiually.

Still help, but its a bit hit and miss more so than a twin cam.

If the cam requirement is correctly specified and understood by the customer and grinder then there should be no need to have cam gears.

Well said Gerry, many cam grinders don't have the luxury of speaking to well informed customers so 'general public' cams are produced which will be an improvement over stock grinds for power but by not being specific about your rpm range and not knowing the vehicle's cam dialling from the factory, then you'll get a 'general public' profile and cam gears to hunt for the zero.

*** UPDATE *** DYNO RUN ***

There were problems today with the manifold install resulting in several vacuum leaks that we just we're able to rectify in the time frame available to us. We know where they are (I caused one of them :redface: ), that clamp will be correctly tightened in future.

We did strike a very bazaar anomoly in that the test car pulled 140kw without the manifold. This is an exhausted up 3.5 sports with a k&n panel and thats it. I am waiting on my copy of the dyno to get the AFR which from memory raises some questions. More info when it comes to hand. Before people ask, the testing was compromised so a useful AFTER dyno was not recorded. Before the leak was discovered and the AFR anomoly there was a 10kw loss - this is what inspired the investigation. More info when the investigation is complete - the testing may need to be redone on another vehicle with more a consistent factory AFR. Early indications are that this car appears to have been tuned for the stock manifold - clearly not a useful vehicle for the testing as my Manifold flows outside it's tuning.

:rant:

Um, shouldnt you be posting something a little more interesting for us all???

EDIT: Im a bit to impatient, I see you posted whilst I was typing.

Ignore me lol

More info when the investigation is complete - the testing may need to be redone on another vehicle with more a consistent factory AFR. Early indications are that this car appears to have been tuned for the stock manifold - clearly not a useful vehicle for the testing as my Manifold flows outside it's tuning.

:rant:

Is Chisolms car running an aftermarket tune?? I was under the impression he still had OEM engine management, hence the suitability as a test mule??

Early indications are that this car appears to have been tuned for the stock manifold - clearly not a useful vehicle for the testing as my Manifold flows outside it's tuning.

:rant:
how can it be tuned for that when the car still retains the standard management system?

we still love you Ian no matter what

I know! WFT! How is this car pulling like a Ralliart?? Spoken to a few people about it this arvo and many ralliarts are 132-138kw. Sure dynos vary, but come on. Waiting on dynos to be scanned and emailed to me. From memory the AFRs were damn near 12.5:1 not the usual 10.5:1 seen on Magnas. That sort of thing doesn't just *happen*.

I know! WFT! How is this car pulling like a Ralliart?? Spoken to a few people about it this arvo and many ralliarts are 132-138kw. Sure dynos vary, but come on. Waiting on dynos to be scanned and emailed to me. From memory the AFRs were damn near 12.5:1 not the usual 10.5:1 seen on Magnas. That sort of thing doesn't just *happen*.

Are you saying Andrews car put down 140kW with the factory plennum? and near perfect AFR's with a OEM tune??

Sounds like he's got one of those freak magnas!!!!

Are you saying Andrews car put down 140kW with the factory plennum? and near perfect AFR's with a OEM tune??

Sounds like he's got one of those freak magnas!!!!

That's the early indication - hope I'm proven otherwise when I get up close with the printout.

Btw, my plenum hasn't been run since the leaks were plugged. We will reset the ecu, run for a wk and dyno again next wk if that works for us.

Most people are aware that I've spent in the order of $3000 getting this developed and wouldn't have spent this if the original mild steel prototype didn't perform above my expectations. I need to fully inspect the install and go over the dyno info. We did the install in the IS Motor Racing carpark in full sun so the chance of a mistake is low but realistic. The bolts were too hot to pickup that had been sat in the sun, the inside temp was 34deg C.

That's the early indication - hope I'm proven otherwise when I get up close with the printout.

Btw, my plenum hasn't been run since the leaks were plugged. We will reset the ecu, run for a wk and dyno again next wk if that works for us.

Most people are aware that I've spent in the order of $3000 getting this developed and wouldn't have spent this if the original mild steel prototype didn't perform above my expectations. I need to fully inspect the install and go over the dyno info. We did the install in the IS Motor Racing carpark in full sun so the chance of a mistake is low but realistic. The bolts were too hot to pickup that had been sat in the sun, the inside temp was 34deg C.

If those ratios stay the same or close to after the plenum goes on, he could save himself a few dollars on a piggyback!

I'm not really sure what to say. We pulled 140 front wheel kw with the factory manifold, then dropped 10kw with the new manifold. Here's a copy of the run with the factory manifold, for interests sake:

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2930/scan001001td9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A few runs were done, all within 1kw of this.

To my knowledge the tune is OEM, as my emanage is still sitting in its box :P

IS Motor racing have an immaculate reputation from what I can tell, so I think we can rule out dyno shenanigans (though the reading is possibly a little on the high side).

I'm no expert on interpreting dynos, all I can see is on the runs with the new manifold the power curved started flattening out abornmally at around 4000rpm, and then starts heading south earlier than normal. So something is causing a restriction in top end flow. Or some air is escaping somewhere before combustion.

On a different note, I'd just like to say Ian is a top bloke, and I can safely say his efforts are immensely appreciated by the AMC community as a whole. I really do hope the initial poor results are due to something like an air leak, as he really deserves fruits for his labour.

Very strange.

Edit - Off topic, but is that you in your avatar Chisholm? Seen it on OCAU aswell.

Ian, Would you be able to inform us of the lengths of the upper and lower runners please? i was reading a few articles on volumetric efficiency and was interested to know how the new one will go as compared to stock (which, by my probably somewhat dodgy calculations is only at around 55% efficency (for accoustic supercharging) at 2500 RPM..)

looking at the pictures you supplied earlier in the thread im expecting the upper runner to make the (entire) length longer than stock, and the lower runner to make the (also entire) length of intake runner shorter than stock..

so going by what i read it should mean that this new plenum will have two peaks of VE at different RPM....

all in all this should mean that it should have performed much better on the car, not made it lose power..

Lengths, if it is no trouble to measure, Please?

Good luck!

{EDIT : I mean the length measured from the machined face that attaches to the manifold, in both top and bottom lengths... }

Very strange.

Edit - Off topic, but is that you in your avatar Chisholm? Seen it on OCAU aswell.

Its Dylan Moran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylan_Moran

Its Dylan Moran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylan_Moran

Ok. Thanks Gas_Hed. That dude is rockin' a mean pedo smile.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=spot_the_pedo

dylan moran is ****ing funny!

Yeah but he's a straight up pedo. Where do you draw the line?

By the looks of it AFR wasn't logged beyond ~4000rpm on that run (I vaguely remember the oxy sensor shoved into the end of the exhaust jumping around crazily, then being adjusted). However I have a copy of the post-manifold run, and the AFR is above 12:1 all the way through the revrange, which seems peculiar for a factory tune :nuts:

I'm not really sure what to say. We pulled 140 front wheel kw with the factory manifold, then dropped 10kw with the new manifold. Here's a copy of the run with the factory manifold
...

Do you perhaps have the copy of the one with the new manifold on?
I realise that it shows a decrease in peak power of 10kw, but how does the curve look? On the curve for that run there it is noticeably linear; I would anticipate perhaps that there should be a bit more of an early spike with the new manifold on there even if the peak didn't pull it off. Unless of course the lower end stuff was being equally badly (or worse) effected by the (hopefully) leaky fit.

Do you perhaps have the copy of the one with the new manifold on?
I realise that it shows a decrease in peak power of 10kw, but how does the curve look? On the curve for that run there it is noticeably linear; I would anticipate perhaps that there should be a bit more of an early spike with the new manifold on there even if the peak didn't pull it off. Unless of course the lower end stuff was being equally badly (or worse) effected by the (hopefully) leaky fit.

With the new manifold plot, the power curve is identical to around 4,000rpm, where it doesn't climb as steeply and then by ~5000rpm is actually gradually dropping off. Basically the power cruve prematutely starts flattening out, and then starts droppinf off when it should still be climbing.

To be honest this is the bit that concerns me, I would have thought a leak would affect the graph everywhere, not just the the top end.

With the new manifold plot, the power curve is identical to around 4,000rpm, where it doesn't climb as steeply and then by ~5000rpm is actually gradually dropping off. Basically the power cruve prematutely starts flattening out, and then starts droppinf off when it should still be climbing.

To be honest this is the bit that concerns me, I would have thought a leak would affect the graph everywhere, not just the the top end.

Higher revs = more airflow = more effect of leak. :)

Higher revs = more airflow = more effect of leak. :)

I had a vacuum leak on my KJ for about 6 weeks, couldnt nail it down, but it did have a weird problem that once it got into higher revs (~3000 or higher) TCL would **** itself and give me the stupid flashing light on the dash.

So based upon this, higher revs should indeed make the effects of a leak much worse.

Car also ran like ****, had no power or torque whatsoever.

By the looks of it AFR wasn't logged beyond ~4000rpm on that run (I vaguely remember the oxy sensor shoved into the end of the exhaust jumping around crazily, then being adjusted).

Yeah - I noticed that, and it doesn't give me any confidence in those readings, looks like it wasn't connected properly and then it just fell out (or something) where the graph drops off the chart. Not to mention it's hovering around 13, which is alot leaner than what the factory tune should be.

We will make some over the phone adjustments today; check some obvious leak spots and reset the ECU. Those AFRs are freaking me out. There was some interesting and emotive japanese being spoken between Indy So and his offsider around the time the afr meter fell out. Wish the CRD dyno didn't **** itself now :cry:

Just to keep everyone in the loop, here's the plan me and Ian discussed:

I will try reseating the plenum, incase it isn't sealing properly against the lower manifold. Also the driver's side bracket from the old plenum might be fouling on the new one, possibly causing cylinders 1 and 3 to not be sealing properly. I'll see if I can bend it slightly to give more clearance. I was also do an obligatory ECU reset.

I will be evaluating it on the road into next week, then I will meet with Ian again. If it's still the same, he's gonna take it back and do his thing. if I notice an improvement after reseating it, we will dyno it again.

Ian and I have discussed "all the bases" as best we can. Assuming that there is no leak or ECU issues etc, there are 2 areas that caught my attention.

Firstly, there is a fairly significant change in port size and shape, where Ian's plenum mates with the lower plenum. IMHO this could potentially be an issue, as port-matching is a practice you see being used as a performance booster.

Secondly, perhaps there are issues with having dual runners, which to my understanding can potentially cause issues with turblence/velocity, where the dual runners merge into one. E.g intake air pulses interfereing with each other in an undersirable way at the merge point. Also with the dual runners, the top ones are slightly different in length to the bottom runners. I wonder if this adds potential complications/variables.

We will keep everyone up to date.

Secondly, perhaps there are issues with having dual runners, which to my understanding can potentially cause issues with turblence/velocity, where the dual runners merge into one. E.g intake air pulses interfereing with each other in an undersirable way at the merge point. Also with the dual runners, the top ones are slightly different in length to the bottom runners. I wonder if this adds potential complications/variables.

We will keep everyone up to date.


So going off that theory, would an after market ecu be able to address those problems and overcome it?

Sorry to hear the results... hope you get it all sorted Ian... you obviously reported gains on the proto manafold... did you change anything on the 'Series 2"?


So going off that theory, would an after market ecu be able to address those problems and overcome it?
No.. an ECU or piggy back will only be able to corrct air/fuel MIXTURES along with igniton timing... if the car is not flowing right... there will be no gains to be had... the only way to fix turbulance is a different design...

As a side note Ian... Have you though about runners side by side? Instead of on top of each other?

Regards
Alex

There was some interesting and emotive japanese being spoken between Indy So and his offsider around the time the afr meter fell out.

Lawl - I can imagine, those things aren't exactly cheap lol

*** UPDATE ***

Due to my marital situation I will not be continuing with this project. I may revisit it secretly in another life.

In short, I will not be able to fullfil any obligations to AMC or other parties that concern cars, my car, or their car etc.

This setback is the breaking point.

Thanks for everyone's support. I will try to establish what went wrong, it is NOT turbulence or other who-har.

Gotta go. Remember to wave when you see me. Thanks. :cry:

EZ Boy signing off. Btw, PMs wont be returned.

**********************************************

Thankyou, Ian, for pouring in months, probably years of thought, time, and effort.

EZ Boy, do what you've gotta do.
Marriage & family must always come first.
Fully respect any choices you make. Hope everything works out.

*** UPDATE ***

Due to my marital situation I will not be continuing with this project. I may revisit it secretly in another life.

In short, I will not be able to fullfil any obligations to AMC or other parties that concern cars, my car, or their car etc.

This setback is the breaking point.

Thanks for everyone's support. I will try to establish what went wrong, it is NOT turbulence or other who-har.

Gotta go. Remember to wave when you see me. Thanks. :cry:

EZ Boy signing off. Btw, PMs wont be returned.

**********************************************

After our (well moreso your) efforts on Thursday and not getting a favourable result, I had a bad feeling I would hear this from you Ian. It's apparent you are at a point in your life where it's a large sacrifice to be doing this, out of your own time and pocket. And at the end of the day the line has to be drawn, obviously your marriage/family/business come first.

Many members here like myself have been around long enough to have a decent idea of just how much effort time and money you have poured into this, all in the name of giving AMCers a good bang-for-buck bolt-on mod. Your efforts and contribution to AMC are much appreciated, I really wish it worked out for us on Thursday :(

Your efforts and contribution to AMC are much appreciated

And so say all of us. Ian, I hope things improve for you. I had great fun getting involved in this project with you and will miss our exchanges :cry:

Well mate its sad to see, but somethings come first, and i know you have made the right decision, good luck with the future, and im sure AMC will miss you!!! (and your skills)

Mike

****!!!! So long Ian and thanks for everything.

EZ Boy, do what you've gotta do.
Marriage & family must always come first.
Fully respect any choices you make. Hope everything works out.



+1 thanks for all your effort

g'luck mate...thanks for your time

good stuff dude, heres hoping at somestage this can resurface and you can earn some well deserved dollars off it

That is incredibly sad to hear. :cry:

It is a sad day for AMC, but we know that you are doing it for the right reasons. As has been said, you must put your relationship and family first and that is what you are doing and for that you deserve enormous respect. It is an incredibly hard thing to do; to walk away from a project you have put so much of yourself into.

We can only hope that one day there will come a time when you can come back to see this through to fruition and receive the rewards you so justly deserve for the time, effort and money you have put into this.

I'm only a relatively new member here, but I read over this whole thread, from start to finish so I know where it's gone, I know where it's been and I can see how hard it has been on you and your relationship.

From the little time I have known of you; it seems you are one of those very rare few people who basically everyone likes. With this project, the HighFlow TBs and who knows what else I don't know about; been a noob); you've given heaps to this club.

Best of luck with your future and I hope that once everything settles down in your life we can see you again.

i have been in shock for the last minute or so , almost like my dog just died.

good luck sorting everything out man

chrisholm regarding the AFR in ya car have ya checked the maf, i had a very similar problem when mine was on the fritz.

and ez man its sad to see a project die when it comes so close to fruitation, but you have been of great assistance to many of us (especially with helpin me and my quad tb issues), and are an inspiration to me mate.

chrisholm regarding the AFR in ya car have ya checked the maf, i had a very similar problem when mine was on the fritz.



What do you mean by similar problem? My AFRs were fairly consistent and the car is definantely not lacking in power or running rough.

What do you mean by similar problem? My AFRs were fairly consistent and the car is definantely not lacking in power or running rough.

well not so much of a problem, just a high AFR lol, i was searching around looking for the reason, doin vacume tests and pulling the entire thing apart to find the reason for it and it simply eneded up being the maf, which is no longer used in the car due to current setup using a map sensor instead with a stand alone ignition control with an algorithim setup to delay ignition slightly when changing down a gear and reverse strangle the engine slightly (very basic missfire system)

Said to see it end like this, honestly am. However, I can fully see the reasons, family is the most important thing.

I would like to thankyou for putting in to much of your time, and effort. I wish you the best for the future. I also hope you come back, and read all the thanks the members of this forum have for you :).

By request I'm gonna clarify my mods once and for all, that recorded 140 wheel kw.

- Full 2.5" exhaust: RPW "race" extractors - including 2.5" Y/flex pipe section (IMO don't bother with extractors if you aren't gonna upsize this), 3" Metal CAT, 2x "hotdog" resos (read: no restriction at all, as opposed to centre oval resonators/mufflers), straight-through Magnaflow rear muffler.

- K&N panel, rest of intake STOCK, including OEM snorkel (lost my CAI pipe recently).

- Barry's earthing/fuel rail/gaskets kits

To my knowledge no other engine/power mods. I don't know why my AFRs are strangely good for a stock tune, but my piggyback is still sitting in its box, and I don't see any existing one. Oh yeah I have an LSD, but I've never heard of these changing dyno readouts.

Hey comeon, its a setback yes, but you have come this far why pull out now?
Yes family is important but I dont think this project is detrimental to the family unit, just put into proper perspective and you'll pull through.

How about you give it a break for 6months, put it on the shelf and then when things settle come back to it, nut it out, there must be a few reasons why the unit is not responding the way you would like it too.

Just seems a real waste of time and effort to give up now.

Remember Rome was'nt built in a day, neither will your project, but the satisfaction from a good result will last for many years onward.

Keep your chin up champ.

Yes family is important but I dont think this project is detrimental to the family unit, just put into proper perspective and you'll pull through.



heydude you are not qualified to comment on something you know nothing about. Besides, family is way more important than a manifold. I'm sure chisolm will be able to work out the vacuum leaks quite easily. It could be as simple as a bolt not done up correctly or along those lines. If anyone had any idea how much behind the scenes work Ian has put into this project, we should all be lining up to thank him and give him $5 to try and recoup some of the money he has lost developing it.

...we should all be lining up to thank him and give him $5 to try and recoup some of the money he has lost developing it.Not a bad idea - I'd put in $5 without a thought for this guy. Not much I know but if enough of us did this it may take some of the immediate pressure of him. and this would be with NO pressure or need to ever do anything for AMC again - just a simple thank you for giving it a go and trying.

[QUOTE=Screamin TE]heydude you are not qualified to comment on something you know nothing about. QUOTE]


Hmmmm, who appointed you judge?

I am trying to give some encouragement.

How about you keep your comments on a positive level, and keep the attack dogs off the forum.

Believe me, I've been around a long time, I've a fair idea whats going on.

i would also be willing to contribute 5 dollar as a thank you

lets just hope that like the last time this happened that he will eventually be able to come back to the project

Im not sure whether Ian posted it here, or if he mentioned it when I spoke to him last, but so far the project has him about $3000 in the red.

Im willing to throw some $$$ his way, I have thrown parts (TB's etc) at him in the past to help him out as I didnt need them and he could make use of them.

But $5, Its going to take alot of $5 donations to offset the $3000 he is currently out, and this was before the dyno's the other day.

I am also willing to give some $$$... i'm relatively new here and to cars in general and everyone from AMC has been a great help to me..

The first time i spoke to Ian he went out of his way to help me, i wanted to get my TB highflowed, I came around to his place because i live near and he just took the one off his car for me str8 up and installed it for me while listening to all my noob questions... :)

We drove my car afterwards to see how it went with the new TB then we took a drive in his... in a nut shell he's a real outgoing friendly bloke... :cool:

But $5, Its going to take alot of $5 donations to offset the $3000 he is currently out, and this was before the dyno's the other day.


$3000/$5 = 600 donations or $3000/1423 members = $2.11 each.

if this is ok with the mods i think we should do it.

$3k is hardly much in terms of an investment though, only has to sell 4 to profitable.

If people that have claimed they want one put their money where their mouth is and made a deposit instead I'm sure it'd go a long way towards helping him.

$3000/$5 = 600 donations or $3000/1423 members = $2.11 each.

if this is ok with the mods i think we should do it.

Hell yes, I'm in for this too.

I'm sure someone still has his bank account details from paying him for a flowed TB, or giving him a deposit for a custom inlet manifold.

If any one of those people posts just his BSB and account number, anonymous donations can be placed into his account by anyone who feels that what EZBoy was doing and has sacrificed deserves some reward.

Another thought going through my head at this point is "I was just about to get a flowed TB, will he still be doing this? If not, will anyone?!?"

Perhaps if anyone has ever bought a flowed TB from EZ (or had theirs flowed), consider whether the $90 he charged you was less than what you'd be willing to pay. Pay the difference if it was.

Nobody has to, but I'm sure a lot of people would be willing to.

Hell yes, I'm in for this too.

I'm sure someone still has his bank account details from paying him for a flowed TB, or giving him a deposit for a custom inlet manifold.

If any one of those people posts just his BSB and account number, anonymous donations can be placed into his account by anyone who feels that what EZBoy was doing and has sacrificed deserves some reward.

Another thought going through my head at this point is "I was just about to get a flowed TB, will he still be doing this? If not, will anyone?!?"

Perhaps if anyone has ever bought a flowed TB from EZ (or had theirs flowed), consider whether the $90 he charged you was less than what you'd be willing to pay. Pay the difference if it was.

Nobody has to, but I'm sure a lot of people would be willing to.

i still got his details from the flex pipe he sold me i will post them up latter if its still wanted

Hey Ezy.... sorry to hear about the issues.(teething problems)

Look i have access to a machine shop in Emu plains.

I am hereby offering services for free, when my time permits.

What are the shortcomings of this manifold? is the cast porous? Do the faces need machining flat? porting?

What Exactly needs to be done to find and erradicate the problem?

I'm certainly no expart when it come's to volumetric efficiency, flow rates and the sort. But general fabrication i can help....

Dan

Custom Pipeworx

PM if you must....

Hell yes, I'm in for this too.

I'm also willing to donate. $3000 is quite a bit of money, especially for someone with a family.

Just a notice for everyone.

EZ Boy has asked that he not be contacted through AussieMagna so i recommend not posting up his details.
Also, if this is to be done it should be done as a fund raiser through AMC. IE, fully approved by the mods and donated to Ian on behalf of the AMC community. I would imagine that some people have his details, as i do. However, just dropping $5 into his account is not the way to do it.

If the mods are keeping an eye on this(which i am sure they are) perhaps they could suggest the most appropriate way to do it.

Cheers,
Chris

I'm also willing to donate

He has helped me out a few times.

Guys just be really careful here. There is way more to this situation than meets the eye. I too have spoken to Ian and I would suggest that he will work through all this in his own time. It's not just about the money. So by all means thank him and support him but don't put him in an impossible situation by throwing money at him. I suggest you all wait for him to contact us when the time is right :)

Guys just be really careful here. There is way more to this situation than meets the eye. I too have spoken to Ian and I would suggest that he will work through all this in his own time. It's not just about the money. So by all means thank him and support him but don't put him in an impossible situation by throwing money at him. I suggest you all wait for him to contact us when the time is right :)

^^^^^

let him do things in his own time. speculating as to whats happening in his life and making plans to get him back or reimburse him or whatever may lead to something he doesnt want.

Guys appreciate the community spirit we have had a chat about this and urge everyone to put things into perspective.

We all put money into hobbies, god knows I've poured thousands and thousands into audio and I would like to think most of that info has stayed here in the community. But EZ Boy was running a commercial venture and even assuming he hasnt made any money on this one yet, the amount of support has shown exactly how much of a market there is, and if he did make it over the line he would have made his money back in no time. Risk vs reward.

I am going to lock this one now as we are not willing to promote a fundraiser for a sponsor's marital problems. We have no idea about the situation besides speculation. And not meaning to put any blankets over this, it seems very clear that this isn't a dire situation threatening someone's health. All relationships go through these times and all lives are decisions we have to make. EZ Boy has made it clear that he wants out from AMC at this point in time. I think the worst thing we can do for someone asking for a reprieve is to keep posting, asking questions and making a bigger issue than it really is.

EZ Boy has more important things than us and credit to him for making a cold turkey decision for the more important things in life.

EZ Boy when/if you're ready to come back you know where we are. If we don't hear from you again thankyou for your time here supporting AMC.

Peace

Tim

(any issues please PM a mod)