Hey all - fitted some Ralliart 17" rims with 235/45/17's (eek) onto the AWD - problem is, on the rear, there is a suspension arm that sits worryingly close to the inside edge of the tyre.

With the old rims (16", 205(?) IIRC) there was adequate room to fit a finger between the tyre and the suspension arm. With the new tyres, you are lucky to get 5mm clearance... Not nice.

Now, does anyone know how far this arm moves in normal suspension travel (or even abnormal travel) and is there any risk of it hitting the tyre at any time? How about when the car is lowered a tad?

Does anyone with a Ralliart have this problem? (as I have the Ralliart suspension as well)

Or should I think about some different (less wide) tyres? Would probably have to do all 4 as the strain on the drivetrain would be a problem with the minor rolling circumferences would be different...

Cheers
Heath Young

Hey all - fitted some Ralliart 17" rims with 235/45/17's (eek) onto the AWD - problem is, on the rear, there is a suspension arm that sits worryingly close to the inside edge of the tyre.

With the old rims (16", 205(?) IIRC) there was adequate room to fit a finger between the tyre and the suspension arm. With the new tyres, you are lucky to get 5mm clearance... Not nice.

Now, does anyone know how far this arm moves in normal suspension travel (or even abnormal travel) and is there any risk of it hitting the tyre at any time? How about when the car is lowered a tad?

Does anyone with a Ralliart have this problem? (as I have the Ralliart suspension as well)

Or should I think about some different (less wide) tyres? Would probably have to do all 4 as the strain on the drivetrain would be a problem with the minor rolling circumferences would be different...

Cheers
Heath Young

Don't know how much information I can give you but I have an AWD TW VRX which has been lowered 35mm and I run 235/45 R18 and yes it is close but as long as you have the correct off set on the rim you should be alright.
this was the critical choice I had when selecting rims. Sorry but I can't remember the off set.
But the higher the number the better as it pushes more of the rubber out board and away from the rear knuckle which has a different shape becasue of the AWD system.

cheers

Derry

Hey all - fitted some Ralliart 17" rims with 235/45/17's (eek) onto the AWD - problem is, on the rear, there is a suspension arm that sits worryingly close to the inside edge of the tyre.

ralliarts run a 225/50/17 which is the maximum (legal) width on the 7" ralliart rim. this should give u 5mm more clearance.

Yairs... I know. But the tyres are brand new, would be great if I could swap for some new(ish) ones to fit. Bugger - more money.

Also - is there anything smaller width than the 225/50/17 that gives the same rolling circumference? The increased fuel consumption from rolling resistance is also a downside with wide tyres.

Cheers
Heath Young

I have 235/45 17's and have had no problem. Mine was severly lowered at the back and I only had problems with rubbing on the guard not the arm. I have about 5-10mm (about a finger width) of clearance. Get some friends and put them in the back to see how your clearance goes. Maybe put a bit of masking tape on the arm to see if it rubs at all. What tyres are they?

No dramas with my 17's. Bought them new with correct offset. I understand the Falcon rims have the same stud pattern and similar offset, but the Skyline rims fit even better around our suspension. A lot of falcon owners buy their rims with skyline offset for that reason. Bazaar huh?

I have 235/45 17's and have had no problem. Mine was severly lowered at the back and I only had problems with rubbing on the guard not the arm. I have about 5-10mm (about a finger width) of clearance. Get some friends and put them in the back to see how your clearance goes. Maybe put a bit of masking tape on the arm to see if it rubs at all. What tyres are they?

5-10mm is pretty small fingers :P

Tyres are GT Radials 235/45/R17's - Nice and quiet for a directional tyre.

Other options include...

Tyre code Diameter Circumference Difference
---------- -------- ------------- ----------
235/45 R17 643 mm 2020 mm -2.06 %
215/50 R17 647 mm 2033 mm -1.52 %
225/50 R17 657 mm 2064 mm 0 %
235/50 R17 667 mm 2095 mm 1.52 %
195/55 R17 646 mm 2029 mm -1.6 %
205/55 R17 657 mm 2064 mm 0.08 %
215/55 R17 668 mm 2099 mm 1.75 %
195/60 R17 666 mm 2092 mm 1.37 %

From http://www.rochfordtyres.co.uk/tyrecalc.asp (second calculator)

Interesting that the speedo reads high... Speedo shows 100K, Actual speed is 98Kph. Probably not a bad thing for me :nuts: Does mean higher RPM though...

205/55/R17 seems as close as possible (0.08%) - would seriously increase clearance. Could look a bit weird on a 17X7 though. Like a doughnut. Erk.

I havn't gotten anything to rub yet, but the car is only hauling around my fat a55 at the moment...

(OT - why does the censor *** the other name for a donkey + horse crossbreed? Hardly offensive! :nuts:)

Cheers
Heath Young

Yeah good point especially with my sausage fingers. I would see if it rubs before going and spending more money.

Hey all - fitted some Ralliart 17" rims with 235/45/17's (eek) onto the AWD - problem is, on the rear, there is a suspension arm that sits worryingly close to the inside edge of the tyre.

With the old rims (16", 205(?) IIRC) there was adequate room to fit a finger between the tyre and the suspension arm. With the new tyres, you are lucky to get 5mm clearance... Not nice.

Now, does anyone know how far this arm moves in normal suspension travel (or even abnormal travel) and is there any risk of it hitting the tyre at any time? How about when the car is lowered a tad?

Does anyone with a Ralliart have this problem? (as I have the Ralliart suspension as well)

Or should I think about some different (less wide) tyres? Would probably have to do all 4 as the strain on the drivetrain would be a problem with the minor rolling circumferences would be different...

Cheers
Heath Young
I can pass on a fact direct from MMAL that they will not endose any type size greater than 215 (check your tyre size placard). I own a 2004 plate TL AWD and was considering 17 "x 7", but I'll be sticking with 215's to remain with the 5/10 warranty conditions.

Hey all - fitted some Ralliart 17" rims with 235/45/17's (eek) onto the AWD - problem is, on the rear, there is a suspension arm that sits worryingly close to the inside edge of the tyre.

With the old rims (16", 205(?) IIRC) there was adequate room to fit a finger between the tyre and the suspension arm. With the new tyres, you are lucky to get 5mm clearance... Not nice.

Now, does anyone know how far this arm moves in normal suspension travel (or even abnormal travel) and is there any risk of it hitting the tyre at any time? How about when the car is lowered a tad?

Does anyone with a Ralliart have this problem? (as I have the Ralliart suspension as well)

Or should I think about some different (less wide) tyres? Would probably have to do all 4 as the strain on the drivetrain would be a problem with the minor rolling circumferences would be different...

Cheers
Heath YoungI am querying why you are fitting FWD Ralliart setup to an AWD config. Have any of you guys checked with the MMAL tech heads? Personally, I think you may be causing more headaches than you want to fix if you perform these mods. Please correct me if I am wrong here, but all Magna AWD variants specify max 215 tyre (check the tyre placard). The AWD variant was never designed to run on 225 or 235. Only trying to assist!

The suspension is interchangeable. Apart from maybe a minor tune change in spring/damper rates it appears identical.

I can pass on a fact direct from MMAL that they will not endose any type size greater than 215 (check your tyre size placard). I own a 2004 plate TL AWD and was considering 17 "x 7", but I'll be sticking with 215's to remain with the 5/10 warranty conditions.

I don't have a warranty left on this car (so the 5/10 doesn't matter). 235 is very, very wide on an AWD - I wish I had known this beforehand... but you get that.

MMAL is very conservative on their recommendations - they refused to throw a Ralliart head onto an AWD (but the service manager had a look and decided it would be fun).

I will have a look at the placard, but usually the sizes indicated are what has been fitted as standard to the car - not what cannot be fitted. The 1" increase in diameter and 0.5" increase in width is well within the letter of the law. (2" in dia requires engineering) - most insurers will also not insure a car with rims greater than 7" in width.

MMAL apparently will not warrant 17"s at all on an AWD - 6.5" or 7".

Cheers
Heath Young

but all Magna AWD variants specify max 215 tyre (check the tyre placard). The AWD variant was never designed to run on 225 or 235. Only trying to assist!

That is because MMAL didn't have the sufficient funds and time to test anything bigger then 215s on the AWDs during their development. Had they had more time and money, we would probablly have had 225s standard and manual transmission options. :P

This is an interesting can of whoopass I have managed to open here... :D

The legal implications of tyre placards - ALLPAW - You state no larger than 215 - but the placard states 215/60/16 not 215/55/17 or 215/50/17. Why is increasing the diameter of the wheels more legal than increasing the track?

Not a dig, but a serious question...

All of the people running non-standard (as in not specifically stated on the placard) size rims / tyres on all sorts of vehicles - how does this affect legality?

Cheers
Heath Young

You can legally put tyres/wheels on a car that are not mentioned on your tyre place card as long as you follow your states legislation, in the ACT it is max track increase of 25mm and max sectional width increase of 30% and a max rolling diameter change of 15mm. Other states vary, with some including a max rim width.
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2241/tyresize5gs.th.jpg (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tyresize5gs.jpg)

Warranty wise, you can fit aftermarket accessories and still have your warranty as long as the accessories can’t be proved to have caused the problem that you want fixed under warranty, read your warranty card in your manual.

Cummins

Fellas I work for MMAL and have too just recently purchased an ex lease TL AWD VRX. Been told by an engineer that a 17 x 7 rim was tested and the only way they could get it to rub was by going in reverse and turing at high speed. The reason 16 inch 215 tyres were fitted was to do with clearences for snow chains as the rear knuckles are shaped slightly differently. Using the various tyre calculators that are available with a 17 x7 rim a 225/50/17 (which is fitted as standard to the FWD VRX maintains speedo accuracy. Suprise surprise. On an 18 x 8 rim a 225/45/18 tyre again maintains speedo accuracy. Other tyre sizes vary the speedo accuracy by greater than 2-3+%. I'll make some further enquires from warrenty and the engineering dept.

Fellas I work for MMAL and have too just recently purchased an ex lease TL AWD VRX. Been told by an engineer that a 17 x 7 rim was tested and the only way they could get it to rub was by going in reverse and turing at high speed. The reason 16 inch 215 tyres were fitted was to do with clearences for snow chains as the rear knuckles are shaped slightly differently. Using the various tyre calculators that are available with a 17 x7 rim a 225/50/17 (which is fitted as standard to the FWD VRX maintains speedo accuracy. Suprise surprise. On an 18 x 8 rim a 225/45/18 tyre again maintains speedo accuracy. Other tyre sizes vary the speedo accuracy by greater than 2-3+%. I'll make some further enquires from warrenty and the engineering dept.

Cheers for the info - I really wanted TL/TW VR-X 17's on AWD, but I also want to be able to have snow chains on it. I also like to play with it in the dirt (has been along time since I've had the chance though). Looks like no 17's for me now :rant:

Fellas I work for MMAL and have too just recently purchased an ex lease TL AWD VRX. Been told by an engineer that a 17 x 7 rim was tested and the only way they could get it to rub was by going in reverse and turing at high speed. The reason 16 inch 215 tyres were fitted was to do with clearences for snow chains as the rear knuckles are shaped slightly differently. Using the various tyre calculators that are available with a 17 x7 rim a 225/50/17 (which is fitted as standard to the FWD VRX maintains speedo accuracy. Suprise surprise. On an 18 x 8 rim a 225/45/18 tyre again maintains speedo accuracy. Other tyre sizes vary the speedo accuracy by greater than 2-3+%. I'll make some further enquires from warrenty and the engineering dept.

Thanks for that - very informative! I won't be using snow chains, so not an issue, and I try not to do silly **** like reversing at high speed and turning. :)

Cheers
Heath Young

That is because MMAL didn't have the sufficient funds and time to test anything bigger then 215s on the AWDs during their development. Had they had more time and money, we would probablly have had 225s standard and manual transmission options. :P

Phonic,
There was never going to be an option for a manual transmission because there is NO Manual box to fit the AWD. The boxes are all sourced from MMC and they never made a manual box. You can get a EVO box to fit but you would have to get an adapter plate (so I have been told)
I would have loved to have a manual box but will have to do with the tip tronic one instead.
Auto AWD vs Manual Front wheel drive????? AWD for me

cheers

Derry

Phonic,
There was never going to be an option for a manual transmission because there is NO Manual box to fit the AWD. The boxes are all sourced from MMC and they never made a manual box. You can get a EVO box to fit but you would have to get an adapter plate (so I have been told)
I would have loved to have a manual box but will have to do with the tip tronic one instead.
Auto AWD vs Manual Front wheel drive????? AWD for me

cheers

Derry

This is what I said :)


Had they had more time and money, we would probablly have had 225s standard and manual transmission options. :P

I based this on the assumption the manual test mules they had where for assessment purposes, and due to limited funding and development time, the decision was made to use the auto only (as most Magna sales where autos).

Makes sense not to make a manual when the majority of the sales are to hire car companies, fleet etc. that require an auto tranny...

You don't require an adaptor plate, you need a bellhousing - evo 6/7 used the same auto tranny, but the bellhousing (obviously) and clutch are different...

Cheers
Heath Young

Managed to speak to the brake/suspension engineer today, and he said that a 17 x 7 rim with a 225 series tyre would be ok as there is clearance but he couldn't recall how close it was with snow chains etc. But as the car failed the bump test?? and the clearance was a little too close for the likes of MMC, the 17's were not signed off.

In a nutshell MMAL engineering wouldn't recommend going anywider than a 225 tyre on an AWD. I'll try to contact someone from the warrenty dept tommorow to find out about warrenty issues with tyres other than 16" on the AWD.

Also some where on these forums on another thread about the AWD and wheels tyres, someone mentioned that the rear assy on the AWD has been known to show fatigue cracks with lower profile tyres hence why they wern't fitted. Well I asked a Metrology engineer who happened to check all the rear knuckles from Developtment whilst testing the 17" wheel on the AWD's. He said the only issue MMAL had with the rear knuckles on the AWD with 17" rims in regard to metalurgy was that 2 knuckles had bent, but only after the car slid sideways into a gutter at 150kph!!!.:doh: