I don't post much here but I figured I would post this info up for those who may be interested. I finally got my OBD2 Datalogger from www.pocketlogger.com and a Sony Clie palm pilot. So I get it all hooked up and go for a drive. All is well except my intake temps, they are EXTREMELY hot. So I change the setup a few times and here are the results.

Stock snorkel in place with K&N Panel and stock intake pipe. (I have the air box cut open behind the battery to allow more airflow so I couldn't do a true stock test but even these results speak volumes).

Highway cruising the temps are only 6* Farenheight above ambient temp. Until you mash the gas then they go up a couple degrees.
Idling and city drving they are higher than ambient by about 10-15 degrees depending on speed and other traffic(lots of traffic = lots of hot exhaust). To many variables really but it stayed cooler than the scenario below. The only fair comparison is the highway cruise.

2.5" Intake pipe with pod filter. With and without a snorkel, with and without a cold air tube going under the car. No matter what I did it didn't make a difference.

Highway cruising the temps were always about 20* Farenheight above ambeint temp. Which is just plain awful.
Idling they skyrocketed, especially when the fans come on and blow hot air right at the filter.
City driving it was just as bad. I tried a few different snorkel/cold air ducts under the car. None made much of a difference, if any.

So more or less if you pulled your snorkel, put it back. The increase in intake temps are hurting your power. I used to think it would be offset by the better breathing but the temp increase is so great it's better left alone.

I am eventually going to try a CAI that reloactes the MAF but the long piping just doesn't sit well with me, thats a lot of pressure drop. An NA engines needs all the help it can get and tossing a coulpe extra 90* bends and foot of pipe into the equation seems like it may be offset be only getting a couple degrees cooler air.

Exactly, mitsubishis engineers dont get paid for doing nothing. Well on the 3rd gens anyway, the stock intake is adequate.

soooooooo

has anyone actually tried to insulate either theri CAI or the4 std snorkel ,, , , ,maybe with carbon fibre or some sort of heat reflective sheeting . .. . ????????????

simon

Is your pod filter enclosed or insulated fromt he engine bay? Or are you just running a cold air pipe upto it?

I have used a self adhesive cork/tar based insulation layer underneath my snorkel, keeps it nice and cool. You can buy it from a company called Actrol parts. Cost me about 40 bucks.

But for your pod you are not running a sealed box are you? I have a Palm IIIe sitting around doing nothing, what did it cost you and what other parameters can you get out of your logger? Does anyone know for sure whether this works on Australian models?

There are a couple of methods I've seen used, both by a mate on his Jeep. He has used adhesive insulation tape that you used to be able to get from Rare Spares, it cost about $40 for a roll sufficient to wrap a snorkel and an air box. The next thing he tried was aluminium sheet carefully folded and bracketed to sit next to the air box and part of the snorkel, this was cheaper and quicker make.

I've noticed some of the turboed cars in magazines appear to have a wrinkled/crimped finish thin aluminium sheet formed to protect things from turbo heat. This would be easy to form and probably cost effective as a heat shield.

I'll ask him what differences he noticed. Unfortunately we don't have access to dataloggers, so it will be a "seat of the pants" reply.

Ken

The material is available from ACL.

do you mean that 3rd gen magnas are obdII compliant???
I've been wanting to know this for so long as i want to add it to my carputer :shock:

edit: just noticed you have a diamante (in your sig)
you lucky american :rant:

Is your pod filter enclosed or insulated fromt he engine bay? Or are you just running a cold air pipe upto it?


exactly....

as ive been saying since forever....... a pod is only useful if there is some form of CAI going to it in a sealed box. otherwise, you are just sucking in hot air (as per first post)

I've got heat shielding all around mine, especially next to the radiator hose and exhaust, around a 100mm pipe that is

Yes my car is OBD2, not sure about your Magnas though. I got the software and palm for 100$ US from a freind. To buy just the Software and cable is 125.00 though from pocketlogger.com. It can view/clear error codes and log/view the following parameters.

Coolant Temp
Speed
RPM
Airflow in Lbs/Min
Intake Temp
O2 Voltage Front and Rear
Fuel Trims
Ignition Timing
Throttle Position
Calculated Load

As for the Pod/Cone filter. I did not put it in a sealed box in any of the tests. Obviously that should help some, but it would depend how well you route cold air to it. For mine I tried it with no ducting, with the factory snorkel pointing at it, and with an extra tube under the car. None helped, it got heatsoaked fast.

Also note that no matter the temp, even when the Pod/Cone hadn't got a chance to heat soak yet. When it was still somewhat cool it pulled LESS Lbs/mn of air then the stock intake did with a K&N Panel and the airbox cut open a little. I tried two different intake pipe setups with the Cone/Pod filter and it didn't make any difference. One was longer and put the filter next to the battery and the other was short and literally had no restriction. No matter what though the Panel filter setup consistently pulls more Lbs/mn than the pod/cone.

Is it just airflow rate or would the temperature of the stock setup being colder read as pulliing more air as it is denser? Also if the pod is supplying less air is that leaning out the engine and actually producing more power?

The cooler air will make more power, however I let the engine cool down and did runs with the Pod filter installed before it had a chance to heat soak. Results were still down from the Panel filter setup. The thing is though as soon as I go WOT the engine bay temps rise and by the time peak air flow hit the pod was probably hotter than the stock setup which will indeed affect power. Given identical temps I am still not sure if the pod filter would make more power though, as it's filter area can't be much more even possibly less than the panel.
I did some tests a while ago at the drags and my Pod filter setup ran the fastest (by .1 second and .2mph IIRC) but thats because I was able to hook it directly to my "ram-air" headlight and I was not able to do the same with the panel filter. So at speed the pod filter was getting cool air rammed into it. And I did not have the stock snorkel with me to use with the panel filter. I am debating going to the track Friday and the temps look to be the same 70* they were last year when I ran, so I may get a close comparison if I decide to go.

I am not sure what you are asking about it "leaning" out with less air, it actually works the opposite. Less air, and the same fuel would be richer. However, the stock ECU is more than capable of handling such minor changes. The AF ratios on the stock narrowband sensors stays consistent no matter what intake was installed from what I saw, I wasn't paying to much attention to the O2 voltage though as there is nothing I can do to modify it anyway. I will say it is PIG rich. Like .96 - .98 volts at WOT, which is silly rich. But most stock ECU's especially in Mitsu's are all programmed to run rich.

Like anything improvements can be made but the design of the stock snorkel and plastic/rubber materials is proving to be pretty good. They don't absorb heat like the metal intake pipe I used with the pod filter, the filter is clamped to a metal adaptor which also absorbs heat, and with no sheilding it just can't compete with stock. So my advice is anyone with a pod filter, enclose it in the factory box somehow, or make one utilizing the stock snorkel. All who have them in boxes that are sealed are on the right track but most I have seen run some sort of ducting under the car to provide fresh air to the box. Now this is a great idea but the engine is forced to pull the air through all that piping and through all of that it has a lot of time to heat up. With the factory snorkel fresh air is forced directly at the filter. Obviously it is not causing any positive boost pressure *but* it is pretty damn efficient. Much more so than hitting a tube under the car and traveling up a 90 degree bend. Any slight amount of positive pressure caused by wind is negated by the long tubing. It is still more efficient than nothing but the engine is doing all the work in pulling that air from below the car. This is causing a restriction that was not there before, which could result in power loss. I would really like to try a hood scoop/duct but that would obviously involve cutting my hood and I am not so sure I want to do that quite yet.

Errr, yeah it was late, what was I thinking? I will get some photos of my setup to show you. Still wish there was some way of finding out if the Aus magna is compatible with the logger without buying it.

Errr, yeah it was late, what was I thinking? I will get some photos of my setup to show you. Still wish there was some way of finding out if the Aus magna is compatible with the logger without buying it.

Compare pictures of the ECU's maybe???

I think someone a while back worked out that the surface area on the pod filter was a little larger then the panel.

As you already said there is no advantage tot he pod filter, unless it is properly heat shielded and ducted to cool air.

I personally believe that on a car with stock cams, the panel flows enough air. Also a few people have found the standard snorkel to be restrictive. A few people have done dyno runs and found around 6kW increase with snorkel off (granted the bonnet is open on a dyno), so there are gains to be had (also demonstrated by the NZ Diamante intake setup).

I think someone a while back worked out that the surface area on the pod filter was a little larger then the panel.

As you already said there is no advantage tot he pod filter, unless it is properly heat shielded and ducted to cool air.

I personally believe that on a car with stock cams, the panel flows enough air. Also a few people have found the standard snorkel to be restrictive. A few people have done dyno runs and found around 6kW increase with snorkel off (granted the bonnet is open on a dyno), so there are gains to be had (also demonstrated by the NZ Diamante intake setup).
Exactly, with the bonnet open and a fan blowing on them. Compare that to a closed bonnet in traffic and i doubt you'd see a 6kw increase, the amount of hot air going in would be much higher than with the snorkel.

Compare that to a closed bonnet in traffic and i doubt you'd see a 6kw increase, the amount of hot air going in would be much higher than with the snorkel.

but you wouldnt be going for a hipo run in traffic now would you?

but you wouldnt be going for a hipo run in traffic now would you?
lol that's true. But i'm guessing that 90% of the time someone who would do this mod would be in traffic, with the occasional boot through the hills. I guess it wouldn't really make a big enough diff to care in normal driving anyway.

Exactly, with the bonnet open and a fan blowing on them. Compare that to a closed bonnet in traffic and i doubt you'd see a 6kw increase, the amount of hot air going in would be much higher than with the snorkel.

I wasn't insinuating people take the snorkel off and thats it....lol . But I beleive it can be improved appon. I was just using it allong with the NZ diamante setup as an example of the Magna spec snorkel being restrictive.:P