.....

At that angle its hard to tell the difference.

Use imageshack.us :).

What about the calipers? differences in bracket offset?

heres the rear calipers

Can you measure any physical differences?

and what is all this meant to show/prove? (not sarcastic, just asking)

which part, ive only got a ruler so its not 100% accurate

If the calipers are identical, then try measuring various parts of caliper bracket, checking for that 3.7mm offset the Jason VRX mentioned. If these are identical, then the differences might be in the rotor only.

If the calipers are identical, then try measuring various parts of caliper bracket, checking for that 3.7mm offset the Jason VRX mentioned. If these are identical, then the differences might be in the rotor only.

And check for any part numbers stamped into the calipers and/or brackets

If the calipers are identical, then try measuring various parts of caliper bracket, checking for that 3.7mm offset the Jason VRX mentioned. If these are identical, then the differences might be in the rotor only.

if theres a difference in the rotor, there would be a difference in the caliper, UNLESS the rotor is aligned differently with the hat, in which case there wouldnt be a dif in caliper

*edit* ohhhhh the track on the awd is different, and the caliper mountings must be the same, so the 3.7 mm accounts for this...

All my research led me to understand that the only difference between the 4 parts TJ Sports has compared (thanks for doing that by the way) is the 3.7mm < hat height in the Ralliart Rear Rotor to the AWD rear rotor.

But here's our chance to confirm that. Get that ruler out and start measuring boy :bowrofl: .

I did some basic measurements, im 99% the rear calipers are the same part.
So is there a 3.7 mm difference in the hat height of the disks? Or roughly that?

With all my research ive done over the past months ralliart and AWD have the same front setup.. So same rotor, caliper and pad part..

There Rear is the differance.. The ralliart has a caliper and disc on the rear as a sports or VRX. However the AWD has a diff size disc to them all. Im not 100% sure at this stage if there is a differance between ralliart and awd rear callipers but i know the disc is differant.. With the rear disc its this 3.7mm differance if you bolt them to a rallart or VRX.. So what im saying is it can all go on your my.. Fronts bolt on and all good. Rears will bolt straight on to but you need to space the rear disc(AWD one)out 3.7mm to make it all come together nicely..:)


Anyone beg to differ..???

the disk is definately different, but I reckon the calipers are the same. Jasons vrx got them to fit with just a spacer.

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?p=376418#post376418


Yeah thats what i thought.. From what i know the caliper is the same and the disc is diff.. its bigger and has a deeper dish so to speak..:P

Im also trying to do this to mine..


Can anyone confirm the diff between VRX, Ralliart, AWD REAR callipers..????

I think they are all the same..??

Me thinks the reason the AWD rear disks have a thicker mounting plate is so that the rear
wheels sit out a little bit further so that they don't rub on the extra hardware. :D

easy way to tell look at ur disks if there ventilated (above pic) there premium brakes. ralliart and AWD uses bigger pads and disks. if there solid disks then there pov pak exec. lol

the TWII 2WD VRX is the same as ES(exec) so unless they went backwards........


Yeah i know the discs are diff but what i want to know is there a differance between ralliart and awd REAR calipers..

Also VRX and ralliart had the same rear Caliper right...????

So what i am getting at is All magna rear calipers the same.. ie.. EXEC have the same REAR caliper as VRX.. VRX is teh same as Ralliart.. Ralliart is the same as AWD REAR caliper..

All im talking about it the REAR CALIPERS HERE.. NOTHING ELSE..

Yeah i know the discs are diff but what i want to know is there a differance between ralliart and awd REAR calipers..

Also VRX and ralliart had the same rear Caliper right...????

So what i am getting at is All magna rear calipers the same.. ie.. EXEC have the same REAR caliper as VRX.. VRX is teh same as Ralliart.. Ralliart is the same as AWD REAR caliper..

All im talking about it the REAR CALIPERS HERE.. NOTHING ELSE..

NO the ralliart/AWD rear caliper is wider (where the caliper slids over the rotor and the pads sit) so as to fit the thicker vented rear rotor, Ralliart/AWD rotors are 20mm thick and the standard FWD magna exec, verada, sports and vrx solid rear rotors are only 10.5mm thick

Standard FWD rear calipers and ralliart/AWD rear calipers are NOT the same, even the pads are different.

Jason if you wish to discuss this then ask me on MSN. :D

sorry everyone....I have come into this thread late. I have recently bought a TL AWD and from what I am reading am I to believe that It has the rallyart brack setup????

bonus if it does...

NO the ralliart/AWD rear caliper is wider (where the caliper slids over the rotor and the pads sit) so as to fit the thicker vented rear rotor, Ralliart/AWD rotors are 20mm thick and the standard FWD magna exec, verada, sports and vrx solid rear rotors are only 10.5mm thick

Standard FWD rear calipers and ralliart/AWD rear calipers are NOT the same, even the pads are different.

Jason if you wish to discuss this then ask me on MSN. :D


Yeah good point..i forgot about the AWD caliper have the big thick rotor.. Now im with it.. So are ralliart and AWD rear calipers the same..??

sorry everyone....I have come into this thread late. I have recently bought a TL AWD and from what I am reading am I to believe that It has the rallyart brack setup????

bonus if it does...
Correct.


Yeah good point..i forgot about the AWD caliper have the big thick rotor.. Now im with it.. So are ralliart and AWD rear calipers the same..??
Correct.

So how easy is it to order the rear ralliart rotors from mitsu? Are they painful and ask for VIN numbers? or cause its a consumable they're ok about it?

It makes sense that the Calipers for the AWD and the Ralliart are the same. Mitsu are the kings of economic rationalisation (They've had to be - for better or Worse). They wouldn't have a supplier produce a different rear caliper for the Ralliart (550 odd cars built) and then never use it again. So the AWD made the design economical.

So how easy is it to order the rear ralliart rotors from mitsu? Are they painful and ask for VIN numbers? or cause its a consumable they're ok about it?
Very easy. Go down, ask for the part number, get the price, faint at seeing the price and order it if you still think it's worth it.


It makes sense that the Calipers for the AWD and the Ralliart are the same. Mitsu are the kings of economic rationalisation (They've had to be - for better or Worse). They wouldn't have a supplier produce a different rear caliper for the Ralliart (550 odd cars built) and then never use it again. So the AWD made the design economical.
Yes and no. For the most part alot of their gear is plug and play. i.e. if you fitted a 6G72 DOHC Mivec engine to your car, you can replace almost all parts by sourcing parts from various models here even though the engine isn't supported here i.e. you probably have to go overseas for a genuine waterpump (no idea if there's a working solution available here but Mitsu don't stock the Mivec's water pump here). But then sometimes there's some subtle differences like Delica's timing belts which have teeth that are shaped slightly differently to any of Mitsu belts that are available here.

So how easy is it to order the rear ralliart rotors from mitsu? Are they painful and ask for VIN numbers? or cause its a consumable they're ok about it?

Like Redav said, I can't see them giving you any greif about it (incidently - if you get a price for one can you let me know). I don't think they are as strict about it now that the Ralliart is so far out of production. Plus it's not like it's a Ralliart Body kit or Rear wing which are parts which visually defined the Ralliart from any other Magna.

Very easy. Go down, ask for the part number, get the price, faint at seeing the price and order it if you still think it's worth it.


Yes and no. For the most part alot of their gear is plug and play. i.e. if you fitted a 6G72 DOHC Mivec engine to your car, you can replace almost all parts by sourcing parts from various models here even though the engine isn't supported here i.e. you probably have to go overseas for a genuine waterpump (no idea if there's a working solution available here but Mitsu don't stock the Mivec's water pump here). But then sometimes there's some subtle differences like Delica's timing belts which have teeth that are shaped slightly differently to any of Mitsu belts that are available here.

Yeah, there's always exceptions to the rule. I was more refering to the embattled MMAL. They have to count every penny on their stock local models. Hence some of the lack lustre specs we've grown frustrated with.

Very easy. Go down, ask for the part number, get the price, faint at seeing the price and order it if you still think it's worth it.

Have we any other bolt on options? EBC? RDA?

If noone else makes these rotors then we be up sh$%te creek. Unless we fabricate these 3.7mm spacers (*Nudges Jason VRX*)

I am thinking of getting the AWD brakes. Will it be a straight fit to FWD magnas or will it need some minor adjustments/modifications?

Most of the time I've found that MMAL ask for VIN numbers because they don't know the vehicle line-up well enough and having a VIN helps them search for parts. Mostly they're just interested in the first 9 characters which tells them the series, model, transmission, and body type.. eg. 6MMTJ8D42 which is an auto TJ exec sedan.

See this helpful thread (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33446) and build your own model code when hunting for parts.

I am thinking of getting the AWD brakes. Will it be a straight fit to FWD magnas or will it need some minor adjustments/modifications?
Front yes. Rears no. (in terms of straght swapping). AWD rears fit if you use a spacer or swap to the AWD hubs but you then get the crap handbrake setup the AWD's have. (Just wondering, did you read this or the other threads?)


Most of the time I've found that MMAL ask for VIN numbers because they don't know the vehicle line-up well enough and having a VIN helps them search for parts. Mostly they're just interested in the first 9 characters which tells them the series, model, transmission, and body type.. eg. 6MMTJ8D42 which is an auto TJ exec sedan.
Pretty much.


Have we any other bolt on options? EBC? RDA?

If noone else makes these rotors then we be up sh$%te creek. Unless we fabricate these 3.7mm spacers (*Nudges Jason VRX*)
Here's your options for the rear:

Spacers - illegal but no one will know without vehicle specific knowledge or they pull all the hardware off.
AWD / Ralliart calipers, Ralliart rotors.
AWD / Ralliart calipers, AWD rotors, AWD hubs (have fun because this setup sucks)
RPW's kit (from what I gather uses other bits from the Mitsu parts bin)

If you have an AWD they you can upgrade to some RDA rotors.

Front yes. Rears no. (in terms of straght swapping). AWD rears fit if you use a spacer or swap to the AWD hubs but you then get the crap handbrake setup the AWD's have. (Just wondering, did you read this or the other threads?)


Thanks. I did read this thread, just wanted confirmation this was the case. Not sure what you mean by the crap handbrake setup. Might be an idea for me to go the AWD brakes at the front and leave the rears as standard. Would this setup be ok? Being FWD, fair to say the front anchors would be more important? Or maybe its better to go aftermarket brakes if they can be a straight swap..

Front yes. Rears no. (in terms of straght swapping). AWD rears fit if you use a spacer or swap to the AWD hubs but you then get the crap handbrake setup the AWD's have. (Just wondering, did you read this or the other threads?)


Pretty much.


Here's your options for the rear:

Spacers - illegal but no one will know without vehicle specific knowledge or they pull all the hardware off.
AWD / Ralliart calipers, Ralliart rotors.
AWD / Ralliart calipers, AWD rotors, AWD hubs (have fun because this setup sucks)
RPW's kit (from what I gather uses other bits from the Mitsu parts bin)

If you have an AWD they you can upgrade to some RDA rotors.

I was under the impression that the spacers were engineer certified as they are captive behind the rotor.

I was under the impression that the spacers were engineer certified as they are captive behind the rotor.

"The fitting of spacers or adaptors between wheels and
hubs, additional to those provided by the vehicle
manufacturer, is not permitted."

Not sure about other states however they are probably all very similar.

QLD Transport (http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/qt/LTASinfo.nsf/ReferenceLookup/Modification_Jan05v2.pdf/$file/Modification_Jan05v2.pdf)


Thanks. I did read this thread, just wanted confirmation this was the case. Not sure what you mean by the crap handbrake setup. Might be an idea for me to go the AWD brakes at the front and leave the rears as standard. Would this setup be ok? Being FWD, fair to say the front anchors would be more important? Or maybe its better to go aftermarket brakes if they can be a straight swap..
The brake balence is 65 - 35 so yeah, fronts are obviously more important than rears. Realistically, the rear upgrade is cosmetic.

The FWD handbrake uses a drumb brake. The AWD uses something else and it's not as strong. I had no confidence in parking it on sloping roads. It's fine with an auto though.

ur sitting down, ok the full retail price for the ralliart rear disk is ......... 290 per disk :shock: but thats FULL retail.

I got quote $268 per corner!:nuts:

Just cause no one else makes them:rant:

DBA make replacements for the front, 4417, but the rear 4429 is AWD ONLY :rant:

Sorry, I was only referring to the rears :redface:

ok thats the rotors... did you get a price on the twin pot calipers as well??

$290 isnt too bad... I looked at getting slotted DBAs for my skyline and they were around that price.... I cant remember if it was for a pair though... :doubt:

ok thats the rotors... did you get a price on the twin pot calipers as well??

$290 isnt too bad... I looked at getting slotted DBAs for my skyline and they were around that price.... I cant remember if it was for a pair though... :doubt:

Twin pot calipers are about $633 each from Mitsu. Not sure about the rears though.

Okay so we now know that the AWD and Ralliart has the same Calipers front and rear...

I also know the AWD and Ralliart have the same Rotor on the front..


So what i want to know is the offset of the rear rotors on the AWD and Ralliart the only differance.. are the AWD and Ralliart REAR rotors the same diameter..???

Okay so we now know that the AWD and Ralliart has the same Calipers front and rear...

I also know the AWD and Ralliart have the same Rotor on the front..


So what i want to know is the offset of the rear rotors on the AWD and Ralliart the only differance.. are the AWD and Ralliart REAR rotors the same diameter..???

Yes.

Same diameter (284mm) same thickness (20mm) different hat height (3.7mm difference)

Frustrating Isn't it?:nuts:

So what is the diameter of the front rotors then..??? for AWD and Ralliart..??

So what is the diameter of the front rotors then..??? for AWD and Ralliart..??

Front Rotor

Diameter 294mm
Hat height 46mm
Thickness 24mm

I've tried to consolidate the important information from this and the linked threads into a spot in the FAQ. Can someone please check out what I've done (http://www.wermspowke.net/wiki/index.php/Wheels#Ralliart_and_AWD_brakes) and fix up anything that's wrong and fill in the gaps in the specs table?

I've tried to consolidate the important information from this and the linked threads into a spot in the FAQ. Can someone please check out what I've done (http://www.wermspowke.net/wiki/index.php/Wheels#Ralliart_and_AWD_brakes) and fix up anything that's wrong and fill in the gaps in the specs table?
Agreed. I can't believe that we go through this every three months.

I've tried to consolidate the important information from this and the linked threads into a spot in the FAQ. Can someone please check out what I've done (http://www.wermspowke.net/wiki/index.php/Wheels#Ralliart_and_AWD_brakes) and fix up anything that's wrong and fill in the gaps in the specs table?

The AWD/Ralliart Front rotor Offset should be 46mm shouldn't it. By offset you mean the Rotor Hat height?

Good summary though.

If you want to add these in for summary purposes

Std Magna Brake Specs

Front
Diameter: 276mm Thickness: 24mm Offset: 45mm

Rear
Diameter: 258mm Thickness: 10.5mm Offset: 56.5mm

The AWD/Ralliart Front rotor Offset should be 46mm shouldn't it. By offset you mean the Rotor Hat height?

Good summary though.

Fixed. And Standard brake dimensions updated.

I haven't seen this discussed before - according to DBA's catalogue the hat height of the standard front brakes is 45mm but the Ralliart is 46mm. This causes no problems for cross-fitment?

Fixed. And Standard brake dimensions updated.

I haven't seen this discussed before - according to DBA's catalogue the hat height of the standard front brakes is 45mm but the Ralliart is 46mm. This causes no problems for cross-fitment?

I don't believe so because we're using the the Ralliart/AWD front caliper which is designed for the 46mm offset. And the standard dust shield needs to be removed so as not to foul the larger rotor.

I don't believe so because we're using the the Ralliart/AWD front caliper which is designed for the 46mm offset. And the standard dust shield needs to be removed so as not to foul the larger rotor.

Of course :headbange :nuts:

Hi Guys
I Have Been On To My Local Rda/ebc Agent, And Telling Him Of The Difference Between The Ralliart And The Awd Rear Rotors And How Nobody Else Is Manufacturing An Aftermarket Rear Rotor For Ralliart,he Is Looking Into It !
It Would Be Good To Get A Rear Ralliart Rotor Dimpled And Slotted For A Decent Price.if This Happens You Can Get The Calipers Off A Wrecked Awd And Be Able Stick Them On Your Fwd. Let You All Know When I Here More !!!!

Hi Guys
I Have Been On To My Local Rda/ebc Agent, And Telling Him Of The Difference Between The Ralliart And The Awd Rear Rotors And How Nobody Else Is Manufacturing An Aftermarket Rear Rotor For Ralliart,he Is Looking Into It !
It Would Be Good To Get A Rear Ralliart Rotor Dimpled And Slotted For A Decent Price.if This Happens You Can Get The Calipers Off A Wrecked Awd And Be Able Stick Them On Your Fwd. Let You All Know When I Here More !!!!

This would be great if RDA started making Rear ralliart spec rotors. Give us some scope for cheaper upgrades. There would be heaps of brake conversions, that's for sure.

Does anyone know if the Ralliart's and AWD's run the same rear pads even if the discs are slightly different?

I have been given different Bendix pad part Numbers by Bendix and Mitsubishi.

Mitsubishi tell me the AWD rear pads are the db1238 where as the bendix site says db1231.
The bendix site also says the AWD and Ralliart pads are the same.

I am currently running DB 1238 in the rear of the AWD which is against what bendix says because i got them before their new catalogue came out and it is what Mitsubishi told me they were.

They seemed to go in fine and seem to work ok but as i have mentioned before, one of the rears squeals so loud under light braking it sounds like a bus pulling up. Everyone looks at you when you roll up at lights.

I'm wondering if this is related and they might not be the right ones. On the Bendix site, both the 1231 and 1238 look very similar in dimentions.

Anyone else know anymore about this? I'm thinking i might change to the 1231's and see how they go.

Does anyone know if the Ralliart's and AWD's run the same rear pads even if the discs are slightly different?

I have been given different Bendix pad part Numbers by Bendix and Mitsubishi.

Mitsubishi tell me the AWD rear pads are the db1238 where as the bendix site says db1231.
The bendix site also says the AWD and Ralliart pads are the same.

I am currently running DB 1238 in the rear of the AWD which is against what bendix says because i got them before their new catalogue came out and it is what Mitsubishi told me they were.

They seemed to go in fine and seem to work ok but as i have mentioned before, one of the rears squeals so loud under light braking it sounds like a bus pulling up. Everyone looks at you when you roll up at lights.

I'm wondering if this is related and they might not be the right ones. On the Bendix site, both the 1231 and 1238 look very similar in dimentions.

Anyone else know anymore about this? I'm thinking i might change to the 1231's and see how they go.


Physically, the calipers are identical. Part numbers cast into the brake components were compared earlier in this thread.

I haven't fitted my awd/ralliart calipers yet (receiving from wreckers today and still looking to source rear rotors that don't require a second morgage) so I can't confirm which pad is correct.

What Bendix pads are they by the way? The Advance pads are known to be troublesome (re: squealing) and it is my understanding that they are not generally liked in the 'brake' industry.

Yeah i have the Advance on mine and they squeal a lot and they also give off a grinding/groaning sound when comming to a stop. Sounds/feels like you have no pad left.

I know they make the Ultimate for the front DB1223 and i have asked around at bursons stores and they dont have a listing for the ultimates on the Rear DB1231 but i rang Benidx direct and they tell me they do make a Ultimate in the rear. Maybe a special order through bursons.

Yeah i have the Advance on mine and they squeal a lot and they also give off a grinding/groaning sound when comming to a stop. Sounds/feels like you have no pad left.

I know they make the Ultimate for the front DB1223 and i have asked around at bursons stores and they dont have a listing for the ultimates on the Rear DB1231 but i rang Benidx direct and they tell me they do make a Ultimate in the rear. Maybe a special order through bursons.

Thought about EBC blackstuff for the rears? I've heard it's as good as any 'road' car needs for the rear.

I have it from reliable source in the brake repair industry..

1. Dropping Asbestos based pads was the worst thing, but health comes first
2. Hard pads, stop you better, but wear the disc rotor like mad...
3. Softer pads.. make less noise.. heaps of dust!! :rant: but are the best compromise.

4. Magnas are under-braked. Except Ralli and AWD, of course.

4. Magnas are under-braked.
Yes, yes they are...

4. Magnas are under-braked. Except Ralli and AWD, of course.

What? :bowrofl:

Hi Guys
I Have Been On To My Local Rda/ebc Agent, And Telling Him Of The Difference Between The Ralliart And The Awd Rear Rotors And How Nobody Else Is Manufacturing An Aftermarket Rear Rotor For Ralliart,he Is Looking Into It !
It Would Be Good To Get A Rear Ralliart Rotor Dimpled And Slotted For A Decent Price.if This Happens You Can Get The Calipers Off A Wrecked Awd And Be Able Stick Them On Your Fwd. Let You All Know When I Here More !!!!

I have asked a similar question to DBA. Unlikely to yield results but worth a shot.

4. Magnas are under-braked. Except Ralli and AWD, of course.

nah... even the Ralli///art and AWD's are under-braked....

Hey sorry for this question, ive just read the whole 7 pages and its all swimming around in my head haha too much to take in at once, but can someone tell me, i can bolt these fronts onto my TE no probs?
Cheers,
Trav.

Hey sorry for this question, ive just read the whole 7 pages and its all swimming around in my head haha too much to take in at once, but can someone tell me, i can bolt these fronts onto my TE no probs?
Cheers,
Trav.

You must have missed the summary in the FAQ (http://www.wermspowke.net/wiki/index.php/Wheels#Ralliart_and_AWD_brakes) then..

Yep i did, cheers for that mate, clears it all up
Cheers,
Trav.

Only my opinion but i wouldnt bother wasting your time and money on upgrading to AWD/Ralli brakes unless you drive damm hard or race your car.

I have a KH Wagon with Bendix ultimates and a KJ AWD with Bendix Advance and the wagon with the much smaller brakes on it feels the same as the AWD does. If you put good pads in such as the ultimates then the standard brakes are adaquate.
I can barely notice the difference between the two maybe the AWD has slightly more initial bite but nothing to rave about. When pushed hard they both feel the same and yeah i know i can upgrade the AWD to ultimates and improve it even more but im just saying that i honestly dont think its worth the hassle.

I can brake from very high speeds in the KH with the Ultimates and there is no fade at all and can do it many times with still no fade.

Maybe try top pads before a brake upgrade.

like ive said many times.

AWD/Ralliart brakes, are NOTHING SPECIAL!!!! they're not that good.... just like every other magna's brakes....

like ive said many times.

AWD/Ralliart brakes, are NOTHING SPECIAL!!!! they're not that good.... just like every other magna's brakes....

beg to differ, true magna brakes are ****, however ralliart brakes are a huge improvement on standard, would be a very wothwhile mod to those who enjoy their motorsport and spirited drives , as opposed to city pimpn

beg to differ, true magna brakes are ****, however ralliart brakes are a huge improvement on standard, would be a very wothwhile mod to those who enjoy their motorsport and spirited drives , as opposed to city pimpn

yes theyre and improvement, BUT they are still **** like all the other brakes that come on magnas...

then it unanimous. i rest my case.
its not hard to improve on the stock brakes :bowrofl:

i reckon the 6 pots on my bike* would stop a magna better...

*mountain bike, that weights 20kg ish

I have asked a similar question to DBA. Unlikely to yield results but worth a shot.
My local Rda agent here in Newcastle said he would get back to me asap when they become available, so that sounds a bit more promising !

like ive said many times.

AWD/Ralliart brakes, are NOTHING SPECIAL!!!! they're not that good.... just like every other magna's brakes....
Cough, cough, bullcrap.

So, you're calling Evo brakes nothing special? :nuts:

No, they are not the best brakes around (no one has claimed that) but they are an eye-opening improvement over the base spec which as you've correctly pointed out are not very good. But without going to Brembo's or something expensively similar, they are the right upgrade to do, perform very well, can be organised for a reasonable cost, is probably the easiest upgrade around and when coupled with RDA / RBC consumables, produces an impressive upgrade.

threads like this really annoy me, ull only find about 10 posts amongst all these pages where ppl are speaking from KNOWLEDGE and not just saying something for the sake of it.

im lead to belive that the pajero brakes are evo 3 brakes which fit on the front .. these may be ralliart ones aswell? not sure im sure someone could clear that up .

also i think the rear of the 3000GT's fit on magnas ... once again dont know for sure

like ive said many times.

AWD/Ralliart brakes, are NOTHING SPECIAL!!!! they're not that good.... just like every other magna's brakes....

i think ralliart breaks do a fair good job for something thats not massive like brembos. also look at the cost of pads when you have brembos.

threads like this really annoy me, ull only find about 10 posts amongst all these pages where ppl are speaking from KNOWLEDGE and not just saying something for the sake of it.

im lead to belive that the pajero brakes are evo 3 brakes which fit on the front .. these may be ralliart ones aswell? not sure im sure someone could clear that up .

also i think the rear of the 3000GT's fit on magnas ... once again dont know for sure

I think you might be right about the 3000GT's JF series. Rear rotor is 284mm. Rotors specs indicate that they'll bolt up no worries. Just a matter of finding these specific callipers. I believe this may be the basis of the upgrade package offered by a certain company.

I think you might be right about the 3000GT's JF series. Rear rotor is 284mm. Rotors specs indicate that they'll bolt up no worries. Just a matter of finding these specific callipers. I believe this may be the basis of the upgrade package offered by a certain company.

From memory these rotors had a different hat height again, and the difference was that magical number of 3.7mm, but 3.7mm less than that of the Ralliart rotor (not more as with the AWD rotor).

When I discovered this, it led me to the conclusion that the RPW rear brake upgrade kit for 2wd magnas utilises 3000GT JF series calipers combined with aftermarket AWD spec rear rotors, but I've never been able to confirm this. If anyone has contacts in the Import wrecking industry that could make some enquiries, there's probably a good chance that a set of 2nd hand 3000GT JF Rear calipers are cheaper than a set of genuine Ralliart Rear rotors.

*edit* - Sorry Mark, just realised I pretty much repeated what you already said....... I just saw 3000GT JF and off I went.

From memory these rotors had a different hat height again, and the difference was that magical number of 3.7mm, but 3.7mm less than that of the Ralliart rotor (not more as with the AWD rotor).

When I discovered this, it led me to the conclusion that the RPW rear brake upgrade kit for 2wd magnas utilises 3000GT JF series calipers combined with aftermarket AWD spec rear rotors, but I've never been able to confirm this. If anyone has contacts in the Import wrecking industry that could make some enquiries, there's probably a good chance that a set of 2nd hand 3000GT JF Rear calipers are cheaper than a set of genuine Ralliart Rear rotors.

*edit* - Sorry Mark, just realised I pretty much repeated what you already said....... I just saw 3000GT JF and off I went.

You can actually get the JF series rotors aftermarket. DBA and EBC do them at least. AWD spec rotors and JF calipers would be 7.4mm out of alignment. Their offsets are 3.7mm opposite to each other.

I just forwarded the statements from the FAQ to my old man who works at MMAL R&D, who then forwarded it to the Brakes Design Engineer, Chassis Design. Got the following back from him:

"Ralliart and AWD brakes
The Ralliart and AWD magnas came with larger front and rear brakes, as
well as twin piston calipers. Here are some important facts about them:
The Ralliart and AWD share the same FRONT and REAR calipers.
The Ralliart and AWD share the same FRONT brake rotor.
The diameter and thickness of the REAR brake rotor is the same on the Ralliart and AWD
The hat height on the AWD REAR rotor is 3.5 larger than the Ralliart.
The Ralliart calipers and rotors will bolt up to any FWD 3rd Gen Magna without modification
The AWD FRONT calipers and rotors, and REAR calipers will bolt up to any FWD 3rd Gen Magna without modification. (except in the rear calipers, swap the inner pads left to right and vice
versa to avoid the wear indicator clips(if any) fouling the parkbrake
cables)
The AWD REAR rotors require a 3.5mm spacer between the hub and the parkbrake back-plate with 3.5 longer grade 10 bolts when fitting to any FWD 3rd Gen Magna.
(See attached sketches.)"

Also got the following concept sketches from the original developments of the brakes.

:O nice work D-Van, thats really helpful everyone now knows the exact hat hieght difference.

redav.... evo brakes.... um.... ok :nuts:

I just forwarded the statements from the FAQ to my old man who works at MMAL R&D, who then forwarded it to the Brakes Design Engineer, Chassis Design. Got the following back from him:

"Ralliart and AWD brakes
The Ralliart and AWD magnas came with larger front and rear brakes, as
well as twin piston calipers. Here are some important facts about them:
The Ralliart and AWD share the same FRONT and REAR calipers.
The Ralliart and AWD share the same FRONT brake rotor.
The diameter and thickness of the REAR brake rotor is the same on the Ralliart and AWD
The hat height on the AWD REAR rotor is 3.5 larger than the Ralliart.
The Ralliart calipers and rotors will bolt up to any FWD 3rd Gen Magna without modification
The AWD FRONT calipers and rotors, and REAR calipers will bolt up to any FWD 3rd Gen Magna without modification. (except in the rear calipers, swap the inner pads left to right and vice
versa to avoid the wear indicator clips(if any) fouling the parkbrake
cables)
The AWD REAR rotors require a 3.5mm spacer between the hub and the parkbrake back-plate with 3.5 longer grade 10 bolts when fitting to any FWD 3rd Gen Magna.
(See attached sketches.)"

Also got the following concept sketches from the original developments of the brakes.

Am I right in assuming that part number MR926096 is the mitsubishi part number for a 3.5mm shim designed to make AWD rear brake rotors and calipers work with a 2wd rear hub assembly???!!!! If so, that's a huge revelation :shock:

Can anyone confirm this?

Am I right in assuming that part number MR926096 is the mitsubishi part number for a 3.5mm shim designed to make AWD rear brake rotors and calipers work with a 2wd rear hub assembly???!!!! If so, that's a huge revelation :shock:

Can anyone confirm this?

hmm seems to appear that way

Am I right in assuming that part number MR926096 is the mitsubishi part number for a 3.5mm shim designed to make AWD rear brake rotors and calipers work with a 2wd rear hub assembly???!!!! If so, that's a huge revelation :shock:

Can anyone confirm this?

ill go try and order one tomorrow if you like? lol

thats what it looks like though...

Am I right in assuming that part number MR926096 is the mitsubishi part number for a 3.5mm shim designed to make AWD rear brake rotors and calipers work with a 2wd rear hub assembly???!!!! If so, that's a huge revelation :shock:

Can anyone confirm this?

Emailed back asking exactly the same, but everyone had left the R&D office at the time. So dad will probably check with P&A tomorrow and find out if it's a part we can order.

ill go try and order one tomorrow if you like? lol


Probably you and at least 15 other people around the country :bowrofl: . I know I'll be giving my local dealer a call asking if that part number comes up in there system.

Probably you and at least 15 other people around the country :bowrofl: . I know I'll be giving my local dealer a call asking if that part number comes up in there system.

i was doin it at a gesture of good will though... i already got awd brakes... on a awd:D lol

redav.... evo brakes.... um.... ok :nuts:
Mate, I'm not going to spoon feed you. Do some research.

D-Van, thanks for going to the effort of doing that. Wasn't anything we didn't know but it's great to hear others have contact with people in the know. Any chance they might be able to suggest an alternative for a Ralliart rear rotor?

Also, I'd be keen to hear from them what the difference in the AWD handbrake setup actually is. From what I can tell the drum brake has been replaced by something in the hub?

I just forwarded the statements from the FAQ to my old man who works at MMAL R&D, who then forwarded it to the Brakes Design Engineer, Chassis Design. Got the following back from him:

"Ralliart and AWD brakes
The Ralliart and AWD magnas came with larger front and rear brakes, as
well as twin piston calipers. Here are some important facts about them:
The Ralliart and AWD share the same FRONT and REAR calipers.
The Ralliart and AWD share the same FRONT brake rotor.
The diameter and thickness of the REAR brake rotor is the same on the Ralliart and AWD
The hat height on the AWD REAR rotor is 3.5 larger than the Ralliart.
The Ralliart calipers and rotors will bolt up to any FWD 3rd Gen Magna without modification
The AWD FRONT calipers and rotors, and REAR calipers will bolt up to any FWD 3rd Gen Magna without modification. (except in the rear calipers, swap the inner pads left to right and vice
versa to avoid the wear indicator clips(if any) fouling the parkbrake
cables)
The AWD REAR rotors require a 3.5mm spacer between the hub and the parkbrake back-plate with 3.5 longer grade 10 bolts when fitting to any FWD 3rd Gen Magna.
(See attached sketches.)"

Also got the following concept sketches from the original developments of the brakes.

Checked that part number with Chadstone Mitsu this morning and they had no listing.:cry:

But, With this drawing, it should be easy to get fabricated.

What are the specifications for the existing axle bolts? So we can source the longer, high grade bolts.

Sorry guys - MMAL took out that part number so they could order and track 10 parts for the prototypes they were building of the AWD. Good news is though that I should be able to get the adderss of the company that made them here in SA, and the brake engineer says from memory they cost around $20 to be laser cut by them.

Checked that part number with Chadstone Mitsu this morning and they had no listing.:cry:

Hmmmmmm...... well I was half expecting that, but still sucks.



What are the specifications for the existing axle bolts? So we can source the longer, high grade bolts.

Without someone pulling their hub assembly apart (unless TJsports already has access to one), the only people that would know from past experience would be Redav or JasonsVRX (or maybe Cummins).

Hmmmmmm...... well I was half expecting that, but still sucks.




Without someone pulling their hub assembly apart (unless TJsports already has access to one), the only people that would know from past experience would be Redav or JasonsVRX (or maybe Cummins).
Why didn't I think of this, job for tonight...take rear hub apart, measure up, do a drawing and get the mill working, much nicer than putting the spacer on the hub, put it behind it!!! AWESOME! If it all works good I'll make a heap of 'em up!

Thanks heaps D-VAN, ur a champ!!!


Cummins.

Why didn't I think of this, job for tonight...take rear hub apart, measure up, do a drawing and get the mill working, much nicer than putting the spacer on the hub, put it behind it!!! AWESOME! If it all works good I'll make a heap of 'em up!

Thanks heaps D-VAN, ur a champ!!!


Cummins.

:bowdown:

You sir are a legend!!!!

Put me down for a set.

Hmmmmmm...... well I was half expecting that, but still sucks.




Without someone pulling their hub assembly apart (unless TJsports already has access to one), the only people that would know from past experience would be Redav or JasonsVRX (or maybe Cummins).

The shim was the first way that Roger Carroll (the MMAL brake guru) told/showed me i could fit my rear brakes back in early 2002 (yes before the AWD was market released) but when i had a RTA approved engineer look at it he knocked it back (roger carroll told me this would probably happen) the second way i was told was what i end doing to fit my rear brakes and was engineer approved.

Reason the shim behind the hub/bearing was knocked back by the engineer was that the axle hub/flange/bearing/abs sensor is a tight tappered fit into the the axle stub and then the 4 bolts help secure it, when you add the spacer to the above, the hub is no longer a interferance fit into the stub so more of the vehicles load is supported by the 4 bolts. Its a bit like getting wheels that dont have the right centre bore so the wheel studs take all the load (that is illegal as well).

I know its only a 3.5mm shim and people will say who cares as if its going to cause any troubles but brakes/suspension is sumthing you dont want to fail or break and cause an accident because if it happens and its not engineer approved then its bye bye insurance, as we all know they like to use any excuse not to give you the insurance payout.

But i can say the shim does work, as the protoypes proved it, other engineers in other states may approve it as well (we know each state is different when it comes to getting things approved), so i guess its up to the individual which way they want to go. The way mine are fitted has worked for over 3 years, is SA approved and all is good. :)

The shim was the first way that Roger Carroll (the MMAL brake guru) told/showed me i could fit my rear brakes back in early 2002 (yes before the AWD was market released) but when i had a RTA approved engineer look at it he knocked it back (roger carroll told me this would probably happen) the second way i was told was what i end doing to fit my rear brakes and was engineer approved.

Reason the shim behind the hub/bearing was knocked back by the engineer was that the axle hub/flange/bearing/abs sensor is a tight tappered fit into the the axle stub and then the 4 bolts help secure it, when you add the spacer to the above, the hub is no longer a interferance fit into the stub so more of the vehicles load is supported by the 4 bolts. Its a bit like getting wheels that dont have the right centre bore so the wheel studs take all the load (that is illegal as well).


Well in that case, cancel my order for a set of hub shims Cummins....... but if you're willing to make some spacers similar to what Jason has used...... I'd be willing to run it by an engineer here in QLD and see if it would be legal.

I'd be willing to run it by an engineer here in QLD and see if it would be legal.
Me too... but only after BB has his approved :P Mind you, I think they might be a little distracted by the hair dryers under the bonnet :bowrofl:

The shim was the first way that Roger Carroll (the MMAL brake guru) told/showed me i could fit my rear brakes back in early 2002 (yes before the AWD was market released) but when i had a RTA approved engineer look at it he knocked it back (roger carroll told me this would probably happen) the second way i was told was what i end doing to fit my rear brakes and was engineer approved.

Reason the shim behind the hub/bearing was knocked back by the engineer was that the axle hub/flange/bearing/abs sensor is a tight tappered fit into the the axle stub and then the 4 bolts help secure it, when you add the spacer to the above, the hub is no longer a interferance fit into the stub so more of the vehicles load is supported by the 4 bolts. Its a bit like getting wheels that dont have the right centre bore so the wheel studs take all the load (that is illegal as well).

I know its only a 3.5mm shim and people will say who cares as if its going to cause any troubles but brakes/suspension is sumthing you dont want to fail or break and cause an accident because if it happens and its not engineer approved then its bye bye insurance, as we all know they like to use any excuse not to give you the insurance payout.

But i can say the shim does work, as the protoypes proved it, other engineers in other states may approve it as well (we know each state is different when it comes to getting things approved), so i guess its up to the individual which way they want to go. The way mine are fitted has worked for over 3 years, is SA approved and all is good. :)

Looks like I'll stick to the way it's done now, non-removable spacer in the hat, at least I know that's been OK'd by an engineer here in ACT. That was made by machining the hat out of a standard rotor and milling it to the right thickness.

Take a look at this picture from a 1993 3000GT 3.0TT VR4 Rear Caliper.

Number on the bracket is 1417 - Same as AWD/Ralliart
Number on the Caliper is AD38 and 20-15 - Same as AWD/Ralliart
Only different number is the 1417 on the caliper near the brake line. AWD and Ralliart is 3803.

Ony visual difference is the casting of connection for the hose to caliper.

Could it be that an AWD/Ralliart calliper will bolt up with a 3000gt Rotor?????:confused:

Take a look at this picture from a 1993 3000GT 3.0TT VR4 Rear Caliper.

Number on the bracket is 1417 - Same as AWD/Ralliart
Number on the Caliper is AD38 and 20-15 - Same as AWD/Ralliart
Only different number is the 1417 on the caliper near the brake line. AWD and Ralliart is 3803.

Ony visual difference is the casting of connection for the hose to caliper.

Could it be that an AWD/Ralliart calliper will bolt up with a 3000gt Rotor?????:confused:

Are those part numbers? Anyone got the part numbers for the AWD brakes set? I want to get some.

No ,these are casting numbers.Ralliart and awd calipers are the same. I've got the numbers for the rear only, left hand is MB950197 right hand MB950198 you will also need the brake hoses as well MR926025 these are around $35 each and rear calipers each are around $610 each and the fronts are even more exspensive !! If you want to do it alot cheaper, get all the calipers and hoses off a wrecked awd or ralliart.most wreckers have a computer database, so they should be able to tell you who is wrecking what county wide.You can use the front rotors off the awd/ralliart but the rears are a different offset between the ralliart and awd, but ralliart is what you need if you are putting them on a fwd. You can get awd/ralliart front rotors from rda/ebc, but at this stage no one is making an aftermarket rear rotor for the ralliart. I have been on to my local rda/ebc agent here in Newcastle and telling him of our need for the ralliart rotor.He said he would email me asap when they become available! so hang in there anyone waiting for them, i'll put up a post when i here something. I already have rear calipers, just waiting on these rear ebc rotors(dimpled,slotted and anodised) ! sorry to dribble on but i thought others might want the info >
Are those part numbers? Anyone got the part numbers for the AWD brakes set? I want to get some.

I was just wondering if anyone has considered the 380 brakes? The front rotors are a little thicker than the ralliarts but the same diameter and the caliper is a two pot as well. I'm thinking that for the same rotor diamater and a two pot mitsu wouldn't redesign a caliper. Or would they?

The rears though are completely different at 302mm OD. What's with that by the way? Why would the rear be larger than the front?

I was just wondering if anyone has considered the 380 brakes? The front rotors are a little thicker than the ralliarts but the same diameter and the caliper is a two pot as well. I'm thinking that for the same rotor diamater and a two pot mitsu wouldn't redesign a caliper. Or would they?

The rears though are completely different at 302mm OD. What's with that by the way? Why would the rear be larger than the front?

Maybe to get more tail happy during braking and cornering :D

I was just wondering if anyone has considered the 380 brakes? The front rotors are a little thicker than the ralliarts but the same diameter and the caliper is a two pot as well. I'm thinking that for the same rotor diamater and a two pot mitsu wouldn't redesign a caliper. Or would they?

The rears though are completely different at 302mm OD. What's with that by the way? Why would the rear be larger than the front?

The 380's front caliper is aussie made by PBR unlike the ralliarts/AWD which were jap made also the 380 caliper is made of alloy not cast iron like the ralliarts/AWD's. The 380's front caliper is very similar to the standard front caliper used on the BA/BF falcon.

I was actually discussing the 380 front calipers and rotors with asylum only a few weeks ago and wondering if the whole rotor and caliper set up would fit on to the magna. Just have to find a 380 at a wreckers and measure up the rotor hat height etc and check if the calipers are 160mm across the mounting bolt holes.

Sounds good Jason, :)
If you know anyone that works at a tyre shop or a mitsu dealership that may be another option. As it'd be possible to measure that while a wheel is being changed. Or possibly if a 380 owner round here feels like being really nice.

Be awesome if they did fit in with little/no modification.

The rears though are completely different at 302mm OD. What's with that by the way? Why would the rear be larger than the front?

Taking an educated guess - the towing capacity perhaps?

Taking an educated guess - the towing capacity perhaps?

No. The 380 has the same towing capacity as the Magna. I'm pretty sure that its to do
with better braking and cornering (while applying brakes) stability.

I wouldn't have though that it'd help cornering, due to incrasing the unsprung weight. Although... it may make the fronts and rears have roughly the same unsprung weight making the car feel more balanced.

did anything else come of this guys? will the alloy 380 brakes fit onto a standard magna or verada??