Well,

today thnx to heath young i managed to pick up some brand new ralliart extractors for a good deal.

Now i know they are nothing special and blah blah wont get big gains from it. However, i compared these to stock headers and i have to say im actually quite suprised at the length of the ralliart version, and that kind of got me thinknig.

People like Jason VRX and CTHULU ( sorry bud i can never spell it right:P ) who have big big NA power have pacemakers and RPW headers respectively. Jason made 240 atws at one stage with pacies, and they werent restricting flow at all.

so im wondering if it would be relatively safe to say that for the lesser power cars 155kw atws and less.. ralliart headers would be ample with no restriction at all?

not sure i made my point to well actually LOL but i ges im saying maybe headers are the most over rated mod for magnas at this present stage unless u start looking for big big power ?

heres a pic of the ralliart version ( obviously not exactly a very tuned length at all but possibly enough for most of us ? )

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/FNFAT6/100_0411.jpg

what u guys think ... im just curious bout different point of views for no other reason than to be devils advocate... i could be way off the mark aswell, but im sure theres a few others that may have wondered the same at one stage or another so yeah ...

It's like comparing purchasing a 375ml can of coke compared to a 600ml bottle. Sure the 600ml bottle is an extra $1, although when you've ran out of the 375ml you wish you paid the extra $1 and got the extra.

ive just put pacies on and they make a hell of a difference best $500 ive spent in a long time:)

I honestly don't think you will be making enough power any time soon that those will become a "restriction". By the look of those headers, they will flow more than well enough for any NA magna running standard cams / heads / compression.

Also - they look HPC coated :confused: . Is that how they come from Mitsubishi??

I honestly don't think you will be making enough power any time soon that those will become a "restriction". By the look of those headers, they will flow more than well enough for any NA magna running standard cams / heads / compression.

Also - they look HPC coated :confused: . Is that how they come from Mitsubishi??

yeah thats extactly what im trying to get at, these are only ralliart headers (which we all generally regard as a piece of POO ) yet and i think i could do alot more mods and still not have these restricting flow at all especially considering pacies are not restricting a 240 kw atw 6g74 so why would these be restrictive to any kind of mildly modded magna ...(all i plan on doing now is the 70mm tb and 380 cams so yeah)

so maybe for those lightly modding their magna ralliart headers "MAY" be a cheaper and better option unless u wanna chase big power

i belive they r HPC coated, dont think they r like that factory i think possibly heath young had this done afterwards?

But how much are Ralliart ones?

But how much are Ralliart ones?

I'd actually be very surprised if they were much cheaper than Pacemaker Headers.

I'd actually be very surprised if they were much cheaper than Pacemaker Headers.

yeah probably right, i picked these up for 250 frm heath young and they brand new..... i ges if u have to buy either pacies or ralliart headers brand new and paythe full price then it would have to be Pacies all the way!!

but if u can get a set from someone who owns a ralliart that is upgrading i think it may be benificial

yeah probably right, i picked these up for 250 frm heath young and they brand new..... i ges if u have to buy either pacies or ralliart headers brand new and paythe full price then it would have to be Pacies all the way!!

but if u can get a set from someone who owns a ralliart that is upgrading i think it may be benificial

did u get the flex pipe too cause the ralliart ones a bit different. might be upgrading mine very soon. lol

no i didnt however i am lead to belive that an exhaust shop can rectify this

It's like comparing purchasing a 375ml can of coke compared to a 600ml bottle. Sure the 600ml bottle is an extra $1, although when you've ran out of the 375ml you wish you paid the extra $1 and got the extra.


Hahaha Thats so funny but true..:P

No HPC coating, that was how you get them from Mitsubishi.

Cheers
Heath Young

The look like they'll flow plenty well.. but can you measure the pipe diameter?

The benefits of the pacemakers and RPW items isn't so much in their flow, but in their tuned length design. Different length pipes will shift the torque curve up or down the rev range. The Ralliart headers may enhance top-end torque at the expense of low-end, where the RPW headers (and probably pacemaker) were designed for low to mid-range torque.

Having said that, I've never seen the three brands side by side. How different are the lengths of the primaries?

Having said that, I've never seen the three brands side by side. How different are the lengths of the primaries?

well Im thinking abt upgrading the ralliart exhaust to rpw so i might have to do another compo thread lol

The look like they'll flow plenty well.. but can you measure the pipe diameter?

The benefits of the pacemakers and RPW items isn't so much in their flow, but in their tuned length design. Different length pipes will shift the torque curve up or down the rev range. The Ralliart headers may enhance top-end torque at the expense of low-end, where the RPW headers (and probably pacemaker) were designed for low to mid-range torque.

Having said that, I've never seen the three brands side by side. How different are the lengths of the primaries?

1 and a half inch in 2 inch ..

well Im thinking abt upgrading the ralliart exhaust to rpw so i might have to do another compo thread lol

i think ud notice a nice difference and have a good base for some bigger mods with the rpw extractors

when i brought these i figured meh.. dont wanna mod the magna much no more why not just go for cheaper option and get a bit of gain... but now im thinknig that i have made a good choice as i dont think these will restrict at all with light cam upgrades and a larder TB ....so yeah .. maybe some of u looking to do light mods can save some money and get second hand ralliart headers if u on a budget ... cos they really dont look as dodgey as they have been made out to be .... and definetely alot better than stock

Can you post a picture of the collector area? I'm interested to see how the three primaries merge.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/FNFAT6/100_0411.jpg
Best i can do for now ...work time :(

yeah i would say for light mods they will be fine and for the price how could you say no

is it just me or the photo but do they look really short. kinda like a turbo manifold. it must be the angle of the photo.


wait my bad, just check mine and they are short haha



Can you post a picture of the collector area? I'm interested to see how the three primaries merge.

I think i could do this. will go do it at some stage today.

Can you post a picture of the collector area? I'm interested to see how the three primaries merge.

I had a look at this when I had them in my possession - they are crushed down into a 'pie shaped wedge - Kinda what you get when you cut a pie into three pieces.

Cheers
Heath Young

I had a look at this when I had them in my possession - they are crushed down into a 'pie shaped wedge - Kinda what you get when you cut a pie into three pieces.

Cheers
Heath Young

That doesn't sound good.. by the sound of that the collection point is quite restrictive, is that fair to say?

The fact of the matter is, they are obviously good for at least 180 Fly wheel KW (if we're to believe Mitsubishi's official output figures), and it is quite probable that they would support higher power outputs in engines fitted with aftermarket cams / engine managements etc.

At the end of the day, anyone who's chasing more than 180 engine kW from a naturally aspirated Magna will most likely have a mod budget which will more than cover a set of pacemaker headers.

I think _stonesour_ is 100% correct in suggesting that there will be a market for 2nd hand Ralliart headers from people, like himself, who don't intend to throw big $$$ into a magna engine bay, but would still like to extract a bit more performance potential from their car (pardon the pun).

It's worth mentioning however that these headers will require modification if fitted to any model which didn't come standard with EGR.

It's not an issue of flow, turbos usually have turbine inlets of a similar size or smaller than their n/a counterparts(manifold outlets), whilst producing twice the horsepower/torque.

With n/a extractors it's a matter of pulse tuning, there is always a range in which extractors work efficiently on one engine, outside of that they can be detrimental, for eg: rpw headers on a 6g72 and a 6g74 would have different efficiency points. So as far as restriction goes, no the ralliarts wont restrict your car, neither will the stock manifold - on the flipside they may not give the same improvements of a different set of extractors as their scavenging effect might not come into it's own until beyond the cars redline, as far as I know nobodys been able to test them back to back yet.

Matthius

im finding everyones comments very educated and interesting..

i ges one way to find out is to get them fitted and goto the dyno ... cept the 380 cams and these extractos will go in .. then i get off defect abnd then ill look at going to grahem west dyno .. so it will only indicate what gains i get from both cams and extractors ..]

Though i think it would still be quite interesting for ppl like me who are looking for budget power. ( ive had all my dyno's done at the same place to be accurate as possible)

Heath Young is right interms in that the 3 pipes are squashed to fit into the 2inch pipe, thats something i didnt previously notice ..

however i still think was worth the money over stock for sure

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/FNFAT6/100_0411.jpg


ooooh..... shiney! :D

from what i can tell, they definately look like a bigger diameter than my pacemakers....

no i didnt however i am lead to belive that an exhaust shop can rectify this

The ralliarts actually used the front engine pipe (from headers to the cat convertor) from the california NAS diamantes.

The californians had there primary cats up on the manifolds, so they used a different front pipe to the normal (uncatted) manifolds. This is why the ralliart headers are short in there primary lengths as it saved MMAL from designing a whole new front pipe for only 500 odd vehicles but still allowed them to fit headers to there "performance" magna.

i've still got ralliart headers on my ralliart, but have pacemaker pipes from the headers to the cat. This got rid of the awful Y piece under the car and make the 2 banks flow nicely into each other.

I will upgrade to the race tuned pipes one day, but no need atm

i've still got ralliart headers on my ralliart, but have pacemaker pipes from the headers to the cat. This got rid of the awful Y piece under the car and make the 2 banks flow nicely into each other.

I will upgrade to the race tuned pipes one day, but no need atm

I always thought you had RPW headers :confused: , did you at one stage???

I always thought you had RPW headers :confused: , did you at one stage???

thats what i thought.. and his profile says

Engine Modifications:
RPW extractors

But how much are Ralliart ones?

must have been a good deal. I rang a dealer close to getting my pacies and they wanted close to $2000!!!!!:shock:

i've still got ralliart headers on my ralliart, but have pacemaker pipes from the headers to the cat. This got rid of the awful Y piece under the car and make the 2 banks flow nicely into each other.

I will upgrade to the race tuned pipes one day, but no need atm

oh really ? .. and u have nice power aswell so i think that proves the ralliart extractors are better than what we have all given them credit for..

if u dont mind me asking how were u able to buy just the pipes and hot the headers? and how much did that cost ?

I think it may have been said before but if not; HM Headers were the makers of the ralliart headers for MMAL, so i dare say there headers they have on the market now would be very similar but with a better lower/engine pipe than factory (jamie there lower pipe from headers to the cat may even bolt up to the factory ralliart headers)

apparently the lower pipe is a lil to long ..

though dave ( synergy ) was quoted 150 by zorst shop to make it fit so its not to steep i ges

EDIT.. oh u mean lower pipe from the HM headers .. i got u ;)

The limiation in the ralliart system was never in there headers, but in there flex pipe setup.

If you look at a set of RPW Shorty Headers you will see they are designed nearly identical to a ralliart design as a shorty header, but it is the flex pipe where you get the most gains. Shorty headers are great for mid range and upper rpm, using longer length headers shifts torque down the rpm line, but to maintain a balance of torque and top end rpm power, you need to then go larger on the pipe diameter aka RPW race headers which incorporate both designs.

So to answer your questions, yes use the ralliart headers by all means and get a decent flex pipe made - copy the rpw Y piece design and you will find that they will flow more than well enough for you.

Anyone with a Ralliart we have always told them to replace the flex pipe only and they aer laughing.

thnx for the advise mitsiman ... alot of thios stuff i have never actually heard b4 ... found it quite interesting

i actuslly thought the longer extractors encouraged higher rev ... how wrong i was lol

The limiation in the ralliart system was never in there headers, but in there flex pipe setup.

If you look at a set of RPW Shorty Headers you will see they are designed nearly identical to a ralliart design as a shorty header, but it is the flex pipe where you get the most gains. Shorty headers are great for mid range and upper rpm, using longer length headers shifts torque down the rpm line, but to maintain a balance of torque and top end rpm power, you need to then go larger on the pipe diameter aka RPW race headers which incorporate both designs.

So to answer your questions, yes use the ralliart headers by all means and get a decent flex pipe made - copy the rpw Y piece design and you will find that they will flow more than well enough for you.

Anyone with a Ralliart we have always told them to replace the flex pipe only and they aer laughing.
:stoopid:
I guess thats what is on my car. they were already on there when i bought it. I will be investing in the race extractors soonish though, so this setup on my car will be up for grabs - will make a cheap mod

so are u able to buy pacey flex pipes from anywhere not as an exhaust package

Can you post a picture of the collector area? I'm interested to see how the three primaries merge.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/FNFAT6/extractors.jpg

Mmmm thats actually quite gorgeous, very well made, most collectors on common brands just dump into a collector area then get forced through a smaller flange, so yes you have nice round holes, which are then shrouded by the flange outlet. Those have a nice gentle reshape to a triangle and don't have any sharp bends to negotiate.

Matthius

Hey guys,
Just wanted to know if anyone knew of a difference between head port sizes on the 3.5 V6 ?
A mate just brought a set of ralliart headers for his AWD and the ports on the headers are smaller than those on the heads ?
Any help would be great.