I'm thinking of replacing my entire exhaust system and wondering if anyone has done a complete stainless steel exhaust.

My problem is that I very rarely drive more than about 10-12 kms at a time, and it usually only takes about 8-10 minutes, so my exhaust never really gets hot enough to dry out. I have gone through a catalytic converter (in less than 2 years, replaced under warranty) and now I have a rust hole in one of the pipes in front of the rear resonator.:headbange

I'm hoping if I spend the extra cash on stainless it'll last at least twice as long, if not longer, than the usual mild steel. If anyone has done this before, how much was it and what sort of life expectancy can you get out of the stainless setup? I was planning to upgrade the muffler in the next couple of weeks, but now I think the whole shebang needs to go. Should I do it piece by piece, or all in one go?

Oh yeah, it's for a 3.5L TJ.

cheers,
.wook

Hey dude, i have upgraded my full exhaust system, i have the redback system up to my cat converter, then a custom High Flowed Cat converter up to my Headers!!

There are many systems out and yes u are best to go with the quality systems like redback and Lukey etc.... take it to some exhaust place and see what they quote, i was charged $480 for just the custom High Flowed Cat converter!!!
depends on what type of money your looking at spending???

A quality stainless exhaust SHOULD last forever. Mild Steel as you said will rust eventually, just depends on the quality of it.
Depends on how long you're going to have the car for?
If less than 5 years, something like redback could be the way to go.

depends on what type of money your looking at spending???

Money isn't really a problem... I'm thinking if I spend $1500-$2000 on a quality stainless system I won't have to replace it bit by bit over the next couple of years, only to have to do it every other year.

I guess location makes a big difference in price too. I'm in Canberra, but willing to drive to Sydney if there's a decent price difference.

I'm planning to drive this car until the wheels fall off...

cheers,
.wook

Money isn't really a problem... I'm thinking if I spend $1500-$2000 on a quality stainless system I won't have to replace it bit by bit over the next couple of years, only to have to do it every other year.

I guess location makes a big difference in price too. I'm in Canberra, but willing to drive to Sydney if there's a decent price difference.

I'm planning to drive this car until the wheels fall off...

cheers,
.wook
You'll get a nice quality stainless steel system that should outlast your engine for that kinda of money.

Go the stainless.

Yeh mate for that money u will be fine, as i said take it to a place that only deals with Exhausts etc and see what they say, You will find that you will get a nice system for the money your willing to pay!! GL

Cool. Looks like I'm going to let my fingers do the walking and get some quotes put together. Mmmm, I wonder if twin mufflers is in the budget? :D

.wook

Cool. Looks like I'm going to let my fingers do the walking and get some quotes put together. Mmmm, I wonder if twin mufflers is in the budget? :D

.wook
It definitely is mate, Disciple got twins (which look freakin awesome) done for around $1500 i think.

At a guess I'd say you'll be looking at least 1500 for stainless from the cat-back with a metal cat and stainless muffler.

Stainless will sound alot nicer than mild steel too. I'm interested to know how you get on with this one, because I'm considering custom stainless from the cat back now that I need to upgrade my "pea shooter" 2.5" system.

Titanium will last longer again but I hate to think what a full titanium exhaust would cost (from what I've seen, they can't bend it - they make bends by welding very short angle cut peices of pipe together).

Not to mention a Titanium exaust will be worth more than the car.

Hidey ho!!!

A few years ago I looked into getting a custom exhaust for the TH. ATT I didn't know about Pacemaker or RPW headers, so i asked the local exhaust place how much it would be for a full stainless steel exhaust including custom-made headers. Would you believe they quoted me around the $1600 mark? I was told ATT this was too expensive (even considering the headers would have been made from scratch) & to go with mild steel. Now, this exhaust place must have been extremely cheap ($1000 for mild steel) therefore dodgy or...they do a quality job (quite a few cars that frequent the place are built for racing) for a decent price. Hmm, me thinks it's time for a revisit.

If money is no reasonable object, go with stainless. I'd like to do this soon as I know the CAT needs desperate replacement. I too will be keeping the TH until the wheels fall off (or I can afford an EVO X).

Cya!!!

At a guess I'd say you'll be looking at least 1500 for stainless from the cat-back with a metal cat and stainless muffler.

Stainless will sound alot nicer than mild steel too. I'm interested to know how you get on with this one, because I'm considering custom stainless from the cat back now that I need to upgrade my "pea shooter" 2.5" system.

Titanium will last longer again but I hate to think what a full titanium exhaust would cost (from what I've seen, they can't bend it - they make bends by welding very short angle cut peices of pipe together).
What about titanium plating?
Wouldn't it weigh down the car too much?

At a guess I'd say you'll be looking at least 1500 for stainless from the cat-back with a metal cat and stainless muffler.

Stainless will sound alot nicer than mild steel too. I'm interested to know how you get on with this one, because I'm considering custom stainless from the cat back now that I need to upgrade my "pea shooter" 2.5" system.

Titanium will last longer again but I hate to think what a full titanium exhaust would cost (from what I've seen, they can't bend it - they make bends by welding very short angle cut peices of pipe together).

yea all the titanium jobs ive seen have been cut and welded to make bends.

it would be nice, and you the the blue purple green colours happening:) lol

i dont think its hugely expensive if your looking at stainless already...

Titanium is ligher than a steel alloy. The density of steel is 7850 kg per cubic metre. Titanium is 4507 kg per cubic metre.

Just got off the phone with a local exhaust place (Roadway in Belco). He quoted about $600-$650 for him to fabricate a stainless cat-back to replace the existing one. Since the cat was replaced about 12 months ago, that should be good for another 200k kms, and he reckons the engine pipe should be stainless already.

Then I asked about a twin (dual) setup and he said to drop by... something about making room for the second muffler and cutting the beaver plate :nuts: I'm thinking about $1000 for the dual setup, which leaves me enough to get extractors too!! I'll go and talk to him on Saturday (if not before).

Titanium... :bowrofl: ...on a car worth about $10k?? come on!

.wook

Sounds like he knows his stuff mate, take your car round and see what he says. Make sure you get a good warranty on all work though.

Sounds like he knows his stuff mate, take your car round and see what he says. Make sure you get a good warranty on all work though.

10 year unlimited warranty... sounds pretty good to me.

.wook

when u get this done.. remember... pics, pics, pics

10 year unlimited warranty... sounds pretty good to me.

.wook
Done lol. Sonuds the goods. Let us know how you go mate. If you're into the dual setup and it's only going to cost you a few hundred more and you're happy to pay, i'd say go for it! :).

That's an awesome price Wookie, can't wait to see pics :) Go the duals, you know you want to


yea all the titanium jobs ive seen have been cut and welded to make bends.

it would be nice, and you the the blue purple green colours happening:) lol

i dont think its hugely expensive if your looking at stainless already...

Yeah it's too hard to bend lengths of titanium if you don't have a die setup. Even then it requires a lot of energy. That's why individual bends are used. Titanium also needs to be surrounded on all heat affected areas by an inert gas (argon for instance) with no oxygen present to be properly welded up. This is due to the oxidation layer formed on the surface preventing a good join. Those pretty colours are the oxidation layer that is formed. It's a great protective layer, but makes a decent welding job impossible without doing it in a gas chamber.

Stainless steel is the best option in my book. A lot cheaper than titanium and the weight difference isn't that large.

almost sounds to good to be true maybe look at mandrel bend aswell for that better look and a little bit extra power cause there is no stretch in the bends like standard bending

How long does it take for mild steel to rust ?

How long does it take for mild steel to rust ?
In my experience, not long at all, given the right conditions. I have owned my TJ for about 2.5 years, and for the first 18 months I was driving about 400 - 600 kms a week with no exhaust problems. For the last year or so I've only been driving about 150 kms a week, and most of that is in 10 - 12 km journeys. That's just enough time to get some condensation in the exhaust, but not enough to dry it out again. So my exhaust is almost constantly wet, which has led to a pipe rusting through. :cry:

From that I would assume that 12 months of mostly short trips is enough to rust through a mild steel exhaust. You have to take into account the fact that I live in Canberra (no salt in the air) and we're in the middle of a drought (less humidity in the air), so if you live in QLD on the coast, you'll probably go through an exhaust a lot quicker given the same driving conditions.

.wook

It also depends ALOT on the quality of the mild steel, also stainless steel can rust if the quality is poor (as you'll see with most cheap knives/forks rusting after their first wash).

I've gone with the Pacemaker extractors, 2.5" stainless, split after the rear axle into 2" stainless, into dual mufflers and probably dual chromed dump pipes out the back.

Booked in for Wednesday (should pick it up Wednesday arvo!!!).

Quoted $700 for Pacies, $700 for the custom piping/mufflers and $100 each for the dual tips ($50 for a single one).

I'm undecided on the dual tips at the moment, especially as they're dump tips and won't be on display as much as straight tips. The guy said when I bring it in on Wednesday he can show me what they'll look like on the car.

Was quoted $2000+ by another exhaust shop, and he tried to talk me out of stainless.

3 year warranty on the Pacies, 10 year warranty on the rest. Not bad for ~$1500. Can't wait to hear / see it!!!

cheers,
.wook

You have to watch out with most shops. They dont change the wire to 316 wire, so the welds are all a low stainless/mild steel alloy which will make the whole system only as good as the worst weld in terms of rust.

I have honestly never heard of any problems with aftermarket exhausts rusting within 5 years, or even 10 for that matter. They will surface rust, but thats not a problem at all. A good mild exhaust which gets painted and done to a good standard, will last a very long time I think.

I've gone with the Pacemaker extractors, 2.5" stainless, split after the rear axle into 2" stainless, into dual mufflers and probably dual chromed dump pipes out the back.

Booked in for Wednesday (should pick it up Wednesday arvo!!!).

Quoted $700 for Pacies, $700 for the custom piping/mufflers and $100 each for the dual tips ($50 for a single one).

I'm undecided on the dual tips at the moment, especially as they're dump tips and won't be on display as much as straight tips. The guy said when I bring it in on Wednesday he can show me what they'll look like on the car.

Was quoted $2000+ by another exhaust shop, and he tried to talk me out of stainless.

3 year warranty on the Pacies, 10 year warranty on the rest. Not bad for ~$1500. Can't wait to hear / see it!!!

cheers,
.wook
That's a freaking awesome price!
Post up a sound clip once it's all installed! :D.

You have to watch out with most shops. They dont change the wire to 316 wire, so the welds are all a low stainless/mild steel alloy which will make the whole system only as good as the worst weld in terms of rust.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll ask about the welds when I drop it off.

cheers,
.wook

Seeing's how SS is just a allow of steel with a little chrome in it, the welds generally pull enough SS in to them to be corrosion resistant, but not always.

I weld stainless all the time with just mild wire, and I am far from a professional welder :bowrofl:

That's a freaking awesome price!
yeah, it's right about what I wanted to spend... seems like a decent guy too!

Post up a sound clip once it's all installed! :D.
I'll try to get pics and a soundclip up asap.

.wook

You sure about the dualies man? I recently got mine taken off and just have the single 2.5" straight through now... I took it off because I was losing back pressure and a lot of torque. Since it got done I can notice a better response in terms of low down torque and it revs just as freely.

Just a bit of info anyway before you make your final decision.

You sure about the dualies man? I recently got mine taken off and just have the single 2.5" straight through now... I took it off because I was losing back pressure and a lot of torque. Since it got done I can notice a better response in terms of low down torque and it revs just as freely.

Just a bit of info anyway before you make your final decision.

I don't think it's going to cause too much difference... going from one 2.5" pipe to two 2" pipes isn't that much change in volume, and an exhaust is as restrictive (with respect to backpressure) as it's smallest point, right?

The opening on a 2.5" single pipe is almost 32cm^2, whereas the opening on a 2" pipe is just over 20cm^2, so the dual system has about 20% more flow after the split than before the split.

The front of the system (prior to the split) is still going to have the same backpressure, just the two pipes and mufflers at the rear are going to lose pressure.

Was your system 2.5" into 2", or was it split into bigger pipes?

.wook

You sure about the dualies man? I recently got mine taken off and just have the single 2.5" straight through now... I took it off because I was losing back pressure and a lot of torque. Since it got done I can notice a better response in terms of low down torque and it revs just as freely.

Just a bit of info anyway before you make your final decision.

If fitted with headers then he will be right. The best HP/Torque exhaust is headers and a side pipe, but hardly legal :badgrin:

Headers, meaning extractors or stock headers? Cause I've got Pacemaker extractors on mine...

I had 2 2.5" pipes after the fuel tank... The problem I found was there's not much room to make dualies... For a proper dual system it needs to be done from the extractors all the way through, or split direclty off the cat, otherwise it'll never flow evenly. Anyway, it's your decision man, I was just sharing my experience. :)

Headers, meaning extractors or stock headers? Cause I've got Pacemaker extractors on mine...
I'm having Pacemakers installed at the same time.


I had 2 2.5" pipes after the fuel tank... The problem I found was there's not much room to make dualies... For a proper dual system it needs to be done from the extractors all the way through, or split direclty off the cat, otherwise it'll never flow evenly. Anyway, it's your decision man, I was just sharing my experience. :)
So you doubled the cross sectional area after the split. Hopefully mine will not run into the same problems as I have only made a 20% increase.

I'm really confused why that would have made a noticeable difference anyway... Like TC said, the best exhaust for performance is headers and a pipe, so if you have the right headers and pipe, it shouldn't matter whether the muffler is the same width, or 10 times the width (think about the gases just being expelled into the atmosphere after the pipe). Like I said before, backpressure is produced by the most restrictive part of an exhaust, which should be the 3 pipes of the Pacemakers going into the 2.5" pipe before the cat.

.wook

Back-pressure in any way is bad mmkay. The probable reason why you felt a loss in torque with the duals Disciple is due to poor flow. A well flowing exhaust will have low back-pressure, but high velocity, smoothflowing gasses. By going from a single 2.5 to two 2.5's the effective area was doubled so the exhaust flow was probably losing a lot of velocity.

Back-pressure in any way is bad mmkay. The probable reason why you felt a loss in torque with the duals Disciple is due to poor flow. A well flowing exhaust will have low back-pressure, but high velocity, smoothflowing gasses. By going from a single 2.5 to two 2.5's the effective area was doubled so the exhaust flow was probably losing a lot of velocity.
Well whatever it was. It feels faster now with better pickup.