i am to understand that installing a stiffer rear sway bar on my awd will help to reduce under steer, i've done all the searches and talked to ppl and this seems right.... so why is it when i went to one certain suspension place i was feed a BULL story and tried to convince me that i needed a thicker front bar, and that i didnt know what i was on about and that race cars only use very light bars anyway.... err ...this person was being very rude about it, then began to bag the competiors shops where my previous work was done... WTF!! no wonder why this one company has a bad rep, sure can say i'll be going elsewhere from now on....

this person was being very rude about it, then began to bag the competiors shops where my previous work was done... WTF!!

Walk away and don't go back. I refuse to tolerate any workshop that bags other shops (without good reason), it is extremely unprofessional.

As for rear sway bars, well there's no question that a stiffer rear end will help reduce understeer in a FWD Magna, but I'm not 100% sure about the AWD's. I'm actually surprised understeer would be an issue on an AWD :confused: .

Was this place by any chance pedders ?

Was this place by any chance pedders ?

Pedders are idiots, they think their suspension is superior to anyone elses. (ie; kings, lovell, whiteline) Let me tell you its not, its VERY average.

Then when I went to get my shocks put in the guy there asked me "who lowered the rear of my car?" I told them middas did it and then he blabbered on to me about how dodgy they are and how they know nothing about suspension......:nuts:

My understanding is that a stiffer rear bar reduces understeer in FWD cars by sacrificing some grip in the rear (ie. it is stiffer and slides a bit easier), giving the car a more neutral handling feel. If you go stiff enough in the rear you can actually get some mid corner, lift off oversteer. Fun times.

As for rear sway bars, well there's no question that a stiffer rear end will help reduce understeer in a FWD Magna, but I'm not 100% sure about the AWD's. I'm actually surprised understeer would be an issue on an AWD :confused: .
Yeah tell them to :gtfo:

My understanding with AWD suspension setups is that you want to have a rear setup slighty lighter than a FWD. As they are still putting torque through the front wheels AWD's will still get understeer when powering out. If the rear swaybar is too thick then it will lose traction in the rear a lot more when powering out of corners.

im very used to lift off over steer, the way my car is set up now though, when it's pushed had it understeers, so if it managed to oversteer a little i'd be very hapy with that

Have you considered just buying one from Philcomm and installing it yourself? My understanding is that they aren't very hard. I'd suggest an adjustable one, that way you can set it up the way you want it.

it's very worthwile to put a rear swaybar on the awd, though a slightly smaller diameter to the fwd's bar (which is what whiteline does anyway); as at the limit, you have the control to break traction at the rear with the throttle.

the awd's are still setup from factory to understeer the majority of the time

I have a whiteline adjustable rear bar and it works nicely, it reduced the tendency for them to plough in the wet. If you find it too taily (dont think you will) then you can just set it on a lower setting. You could put it on yourself, its not too bigger job.

I have a whiteline adjustable rear bar and it works nicely, it reduced the tendency for them to plough in the wet. If you find it too taily (dont think you will) then you can just set it on a lower setting. You could put it on yourself, its not too bigger job.

Installing a Rear Swaybar is very easy. Especially if you already have a stock swaybar. Front is trickier but it's really just more time consuming. I put the rear on in 1.5hr and the front on in 3hr.

If you have an earlier TJ series AWD then you have a 16mm rear bar.

Definitely the first thing to do is to fit the 18mm bar that Whiteline make. I understand that the later TL? / TW AWD have a thicker rear bar. Can anyone measure and confirm.

There are 2 major sources of understeer with the AWD.
First is the weight transfer back to front as the car goes into a corner, here the stiffer rear bar is the way to reduce this.
Second is front tyre sidewall flex during the initial turn-in.
When the car has settled into going round the corner then the "on-rails" feeling comes back.
Cure for turn-in understeer, try higher tyre pressures to reduce the effect slightly.
The real fix is to go to lower profile tyres. I went the 235/45/17's, made an enormous difference!

I have my originals in the carpark, I can look if you want.

i can rule out the side wall flex thats for sure!!

I upgraded my 16mm rear sway bar in my KJ AWD to a 18mm whiteline adjustable one and have it on the middle setting. I did it myself and it was very easy and im by no means a mechanic.

It reduced the very sloppy body roll feel i had in the rear and now sits fairly flat through corners while still being a very comfy ride. It has made the car feel so much more stable on the road and feels much more confident going round corners or through sweeping bends.
I by no means drive the car hard but i have noticed that if you push it hard enough in the wet, the rear end will step out like a RWD more than it did with the smaller sway bar but that is when pushed hard which takes a fair bit. Its not like the rear end will slide out on you with little effort. You still have to push hard to get it to do this.

well the way it handles now is ok, but when pushed it pushes the front end almost like a fwd car, and in the wet it's hard to get it to kick out, if you can get it to at all....