Ok... a few things that someone here might be able to help me (preferably someone who has fitted aftermarket suspension to their V6 TR/TS/KR/KS).

I'm thinking of doing some suspension work:

1) Strut Brace (Front) - would this lessen body roll or something else?

2) 35mm Lowered Springs front and rear - has anyone lowered to this same amount? I'm concerned it could put stress on the other components - like CV joints?

3) Would this lowering cause problems with my 235/45/17 tyres?

4) I'm hoping to find some good priced shocks as well - however I have known people to lower their TR/TS's up to 2 inches using the factory shocks and they say there is no problems. Does anyone know if this would be true? I know its ideal to change the shocks too - but would it be a sin to leave the factory shocks in there? :)

5) Would lowering of about 35mm front require camber kits to prevent wear of tyres? I was told that the camber acchieved from lowering would be good and you wouldnt want to correct it. Comments?

6) Are Castor kits the same as Camber kits? Are these required in TS's or do we already have a bolt to adjust this?

I'll keep adding questions as I think of them :)

Thanks!

1/ the strut tower brace will prevent the tops from flexing, gives better hadnling and braking conditons

2/Mine is about 40mm with pedders sports ryders, no problems at all

3/ Tyres i do not now as mine are still std (hik hik :( :( )

4/ the car is getting on, you will most likely have probs in time with knocking etc plus the damper rates will be different as lowered springs are generally about 30% firmer. I have GT Sports in mine

5/ Camber kits shold not be needed, mine aligns fine.

6/ camber and caster are 2 different issues, bit hard to explain in a forum however caster is the angle, front to rear for lack of better way of putting it, camber is the angle left to right...umm sort off lol

ok thanks. So Castor is if the front end of the tyre is kind of pointing inwards or outwards: / \ or \ / (looking from above)

and Camber is the angle top to bottom / \ or \ / (looking straight ahead at the wheels from the front or back)?

Are the whiteline camber/castor kits more for people who want to adjust the camber quite a lot for racing events, etc? But not required for street use... then?

Cheers,
Kim

Ok Camber if looking along the side of the wheel from front to back is assuming left hand wheel

/ negative (better cornering, wear out tyres on inside
l neutral
\posative (crap cornering, wear out tyres on outside)

Racing cars have heaps of negative camber, it is very obvious as the front wheel looks like it is about to come off. This is good when cornering as the body rolls over the axis the tyre meets the road at more of a right angle. (hope this makes some sense lol)

Can put in camber bolts if you wish, these are ony ecentric bolts, one each side on the strutt bolt.

I can not see how caster adjustment could be possable unles an adjustable strut top was installed unless there is a bush avail to replace the rear bush that has an offset hole.

ok thanks.

a) Would the negative camber acchieved from lowering 35mm be significant enough to warrant a camber kit to make the camber neutral again? Or would it be so little it wouldnt matter?

b) Also - did you find you had problems with speed humps, driveways, etc. after lowering? I'm worried about my driveway... it bumps in the rear already when I have passengers in the back seat.

c) Also - my 235/45/17 tyres seem to be about even with the guard at the rear. Lowering would get the tyre very close to the guard. I can take photos if you want?

Sounds like you have spring sag if your bumping with people in the back.
If your spare is still the 15 " put it on and measure from the bottom of the rim to the arch and I will do the same with mine and we can get an ieda of where your car is stitting. Have you ever had your springs compressed or cut?
If your springs are sagged and dampers are not very good that can account for a lot of bad handling and also bottoming out issues.
In theory your 17's should be approx the same rotating diameter so this should not be too much an issue concidering most tr ans s models have about 2" from top of tyre to wheel arch.
As for camber, do the job and get it measured when you do the wheel allignment, I would be surprised if you need them.

the gap between the tyre and the rear arch is much less than at the front. The front is heaps but the rear is not much.

As can be seen here:

http://www.fastmagna.com/gallery/5_3/front_meshed.jpg

Think my factory rear springs are sagged as it is?

Castor is the angle of the strut with respect to the verticle. Positive castor
for example is your typical harley where the forks are tilted back. Its
basically the tilt of the line formed by the upper ball joint and the lower
ball joint. Newer cars have more and more positive castor. Advantages are
Maximise tyre contact patch during roll
Improve turn-in response
Increase directional stability
Maximise tyre contact patch during braking and acceleration
Improved steering feel and self-centre
Increases dynamic negative camber (on turn)


Anyway. When I lowered mine to 40mm, I had to put camber kits, this is
due to the Verada having slightly different suspension geometry so when
I lowered it the negative camber was too much. It still has -ve camber, but
not too much. The suspension place told me that there are no castor kits
available for the TR/TS/KR/KS series.

Go to whiteline website and search for info on camber and castor or better
yet, here it is http://www.whiteline.com.au/faqsusp01.htm

ok. Might have to do Camber kit then.

If I do Camber kit - should I also do Castor Kit? I take it that would them move the wheel forward or backwards from the strut? $$ keeps going up :(

Vlad - what tyres do you have on your Verada?

Madmagna - Oh, by bumping in the rear I meant that the fuel tank bumps the ground at the buttom of my driveway. Not that the shocks are bumping. Still think there could be sag in the rear springs? Looking at the pic of Vlads Verada my rear looks about as low as his without being lowered. The front sits much higher though. Maybe the 35mm lowered springs wont change the rear as much as the front because the rear is already sagged.

ok. Might have to do Camber kit then.

If I do Camber kit - should I also do Castor Kit? I take it that would them move the wheel forward or backwards from the strut? $$ keeps going up :(

Vlad - what tyres do you have on your Verada?

Madmagna - Oh, by bumping in the rear I meant that the fuel tank bumps the ground at the buttom of my driveway. Not that the shocks are bumping. Still think there could be sag in the rear springs? Looking at the pic of Vlads Verada my rear looks about as low as his without being lowered. The front sits much higher though. Maybe the 35mm lowered springs wont change the rear as much as the front because the rear is already sagged.

Well. As I said, no castor kits available unless you go custom. I just
remembered that I was told the TR/TS/KR/KS series castor is not
adjustable.

My tyres are Goodyear F1 GSD3 225/50 ZR16 fitted onto 16x7 FX5 from
Performance Alloys. My rear is actually lowered 50mm because when they
fitted 40mm on the rear the rear sat way to high (a general problem with
front wheel drive vehicles being the rear is too light). All my shocks are the
Munroe GT Gas Premium variable damping which suits the variable rate
Kings perferctly.

ok thanks.

Do you know if the factory shocks with 35mm lowered springs would be okay?

Are there any negative effects to lowering about 35mm? Handling in wet - could the back end slide out more because of the stiffer setup?

Kim

ok thanks.

Do you know if the factory shocks with 35mm lowered springs would be okay?

Are there any negative effects to lowering about 35mm? Handling in wet - could the back end slide out more because of the stiffer setup?

Kim

I did not change the front shocks for a month and to tell you the truth, I
could not tell any difference after fitting the front ones. I guess I did not
know what to look out for before changing the front ones. One thing is that
when the car is jacked up, the springs should not sit loosely as this is the
law.

The rear does tend to be a bit more happy to go places but then again, for
a front wheel drive car, you do need the ability to do a off-throttle over-
steer to get you out of trouble. Done that a few times in the wet doing a
right turn and it is understeering, let go of the accelerator and the car
straightened out. Doing tight left turns under power can also slide the rear
out. Other than that, the handling is great. Picture this, on a country road
with 5 people in the car, boot load of fishing, picnic gear and a full tank and
performed a right bend turn that was marked for 75km/hr doing 120km/hr
without a hint of trouble, not sliding or rolling. The guys saw the sign and
saw the speedo and .... too late :badgrin:

hmm okay. Was speaking to 2 friends today who have both "been there done that" - one with a Magna and one with a lot of different cars.

One has conclusion that unless you do a FULL suspension setup (shocks, springs, sway bars, camber, bushes, etc) theres no point doing one thing - because an aftermarket suspension is designed to work as a whole. The factory sway bars, etc. were designed to work with the factory ride height and lowering it without doing the full kit is not worth the effort. Is that true?

The other mate who has done suspension work on his old Magna said after lowering his 25mm the CV boots blew and needed replaceing a month later, and a month after that the CV joints kicked the bucked and had to be replaced. $$

But other people say lowering it is really good and to go for it. So many conflicting stories... not sure what I should do :|

http://www.fastmagna.com/km/suspension/tyres1.jpg
The rear from side. See how the width of the tyre brings the rubber out about level with the guard. If I lower it too much I'd be worried it might hit going over bumps.

http://www.fastmagna.com/km/suspension/factory_front.jpg
The factory ride height at the front. It sits very high :(

http://www.fastmagna.com/km/suspension/factory_rear.jpg
The factory ride height at the rear is much lower than the front. Does it look sagged?

Kim I think with all the questions you are asking you should really ask yourself how much you are willing to spend and what you think is most important about the way your car drives. No one person is going to give you the right advice because only you know what you want!

Just out of my opinion, given that all existing components on the car are in good condition, these are the following things I would replace, in order of effectiveness/value:

1. rear swaybar
2. lowered springs
3. new shocks
4. front castor/camber kit
5. 20mm front swaybar
6. front strut tower brace
7. Urethane rear trailing arm bushes.

Lowering the car is going to expose the underside of the car to more debris on the road etc. It also places more stress on the CV joints and on the car every time you hit the bump stops due to running out of travel.

Stiffening the ride with harder springs/shocks or in conjunction with urethane bushes will harshen the ride and cause more vibration throughout the car. Say hello to rattles and squeaks and generally more wear and tear on the car body and panels.

If you can handle spending the money and making all the tradeoffs in terms of a harsher ride, you can have a Magna that handles much better than most of the other cars on the road. I don't suffer too badly from rattles and squeaks having a KS which has lots of factory sound deadening (and more added by myself), but I am sure happy with the handling. All I need is more power!

yeah - certainly a lot to think about.

The springs I have been offered are no charge - however theres cost in freight and fitting (so really, it will probably end up costing me anyway).

Will have a think about it over xmas, etc :)

Why on earth would you change a 22mm front sway bar which is std on the v6 back to a 20mm?

Also Urethane on the rear will cause the car to become "taily" in the rear due to it being lite and the back will bind up.

Kim, it is up to you mate, I would start by saying if you have done a few miles that the rear dampers have de gassed, ie gas has leaked out thus softening the dampening effect and also the springs have softened especially if you are having you fuel tank scraping out of your drive way, given that it is in front of the rear axle.

Unles your shocks (dampers) are new do what vlad said, go the GT Gas, 35mm springs, while there check all bushes front and rear and you will have a car that handles quite well.

Mine even witht he stock 15" tractor tyres (Perelli p6000's) handles quite well concidering. 17's will help a lot.

Depending how serious you are, why not start with springs and work from there if needed.

If you are going for the "handle on rails" set up you will have to go all out.

hmm okay, thanks guys.

Mal - did your lowered springs/shocks cause problems with CV joints or anything else?

A lot of the lowered rear ends of your Magnas look as low as mine (suggesting my rear shocks/springs are getting old). I might find that lowered springs will not look any different at the rear, but just correct the front.

I'll see if I can get a good deal on shocks. If I can then I'll probably do the shocks/springs setup.

Hmm, decisions decisions.

Thanks again.

Go the springs as if yours are sagging or soft they are not working as they should.

I dod not have CV problems from lowering although it can happen from the new angle the shaft and the cv relate at.

As for splitting boots, that could only have been from old perished boots that were strained when the struts were removed.

i had no real problems lowering mine with pedders sportsriders, only thing is that because of the size of my wheels (18x9 rims with 235/40 zr18 tyres) was that it rubbed in the back really bad, i fixed most of that by rolling the guards, my front drivers side cv was playing up before i did the work and now its heaps worse,

as long as your cv's are fine now then you shouldnt have any problems putting 35mm lowered springs on it, and your tyres are about an inch smaller in diameter to mine so it shouldnt rub.

Dont worry about the camber kit, you wont need it, there is enough adjustment standard to put the alignment right.

Pete - your tyres are 235 so same width as mine - even though my rims are only 7". Does that mean the overall width would be the same - so I would get the rubbing also?

Cheers,
Kim

dunno. ill have to have a look, pretty sure they are 235

for gods sake girl! if you want your car lowered, LOWER IT! there are so many guys here who have and dont have any problems. it seems to me like your trying to convince yourself that you shouldnt do it. with any mod you are going to get negligble negatives that you just have to put up with to reap all the positives. if your that worried about your tyres scrapping or the car bottoming out, buy a fricken 4wd! im sorry if this sounds harsh but there is only so much we can tell you. in the end its up to you to get out there and do it!
my advice. get lowered springs, new shocks and the strut brace. see how that goes(and make sure its ok with insurance) before you look into further mods. you will probably find this will do you great and you love it.

Ummm kim would be a very ugly girl unless there is something you have forgotten to tell is Kim lOL :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :cry:

sorry about that. its just with the spelling of the name and the never ending questions about these mods(i.e "does this dress make my butt look big?") i just assumed. i apologise if i offended, even though kim would probably be better looking than a lot of the girls kb has hooked up with! lol.

Oh magwgn you're just jealous that I hook up with humans ;)

Animals dont count you know! :lol:

Kim, I reckon for now, lower it with some good shocks (koni if you can afford it) and some good springs.

Everything else you can always do later.

man, just admit it you got done hard. thats one of your worst comebacks ever! and its pretty rough calling your mum an animal too! imagine what she would say if she saw that!

:evil:

haha - last time I checked I was a bloke :)

But, its a common mistake - so anyway. (btw I think most guys called Kim are spelt the same way - Kim Beazley, etc).

Anyway... I'm not trying to convince myself not to lower the car... its just a lot of people (all know a lot about cars) have told me not to do it, and a lot of other people who also know a lot about cars have told me to go ahead and do it.

I guess with things like this its a personal taste - so I'll have to do it and see if its a good improvement.

man, just admit it you got done hard. thats one of your worst comebacks ever! and its pretty rough calling your mum an animal too! imagine what she would say if she saw that!

LOL..I have no problems admitting that someone managed to take the piss out of me ;)

Congratulations....would you like a medal or a chest to pin it on? :p haha

you know ive never really gotten that saying. no ones ever questioned me or my chest when theyve been facing up to it. and i dont need a medal. im not here for any trophies. just my own satisfaction of making you look like a tool bag!

[quote:72dc6c2a73]Why on earth would you change a 22mm front sway bar which is std on the v6 back to a 20mm? [/quote:72dc6c2a73]

That's right, but Kim's is a 4cyl last time I looked which is standard with a 20mm hollow front bar. Going from a hollow bar to one that is solid (same diameter) provides the same amount of anti-roll but greater durability and quicker response.

nope mines 3L V6...


<----- V6si ;)

[quote:8acdd35192]Why on earth would you change a 22mm front sway bar which is std on the v6 back to a 20mm?

That's right, but Kim's is a 4cyl last time I looked which is standard with a 20mm hollow front bar. Going from a hollow bar to one that is solid (same diameter) provides the same amount of anti-roll but greater durability and quicker response.[/quote:8acdd35192]

Last time you looked?

Yeah I recall somewhere that Kim's TR was a 2.6... or maybe that was another TR in another forum. :oops: I stand corrected.

you know ive never really gotten that saying. no ones ever questioned me or my chest when theyve been facing up to it. and i dont need a medal. im not here for any trophies. just my own satisfaction of making you look like a tool bag!

Nice...well I hope you're satisfied :p lol