I have done almost all i can to up my fuel usage......change cam/crank seal, water pump, timing belt, clean MAF, clean TB, clean heads, and even new oxygen senser...... checked with a snap-on cpu checker, checked all engine bearings, run 98 fuel etc etc.....and all things are good....BUT still i'm getting only 180+km:shock: on the half tank mark......it used tobe 200+++ less then a year ago.

I also have a rising rate FPR set at 38-40 psi which i've checked so far tobe quite a normal/reasonable setting......

Any pointers on WHY/HOW my fuel usage is that bad? and i don't floor it always....:confused:

what about getting the injectors cleaned. have u changed all the filter's eg, fuel,air etc etc. how olds ur cat?

I'd be looking at the rising rate FPR meself. Remove it and see if it makes a difference.

Looking at your profile it seems to be the only standout.

Cheers
Heath Young

Waht about the usual suspects....plugs, leads, fuel and air filters....even oil can make a difference :D

Dont forget tyre pressures

Waht about the usual suspects....plugs, leads, fuel and air filters....even oil can make a difference :D

Dont forget tyre pressures

leads and sparks(NGK iritium...something like that) both less then a year old....k&n panel filter cleaned, oil less then a month......tyres are NEW at 40psi.....argh....really starting to "hate" this car....

just adjust my FPR to 38 psi lowered abit......
only ONLY thing left is to ultrasound the injectors.....which i pray i dun need to.....no more $$$ for now......Cat Con should be find......had the mech check it nothing.......sigh

thanks for the reply guys.....lol seems like the main good things about magnas are their owners.

180 when hitting the half way mark? You realise that's only about 1/3 of the tank gone (dodgy fuel readouts). Which is alright. How many kms do you get from a FULL tank (by working out kms traveled vs. litres put in at the bowser). I think you're looking at about 500kms per tank, which isn't bad at all.

SEON...
i have a recommendation for you...
get your cyclinders pressure tested.. if you don't have the gear yourself.. take it too a mechanic...
you could have a slightly bent intake/exhaust valve.. which will alter exhaust readouts and cause the ECU too Sh$t itslef and cause the car too use more fuel than it should...

i do some heavy footed driving and i will happily get 550 a tank.. if i drive like a old bat then about 700

i fill up with about 40litres, which shows close to empty on my needle and i would usually get no more than 410kms.

heavy take off's and putting your boot down will drink alot more fuel and it achieves nothing.


adza, do you really get 700 kms out of a tank!? thats mad! how much do you fill up with and do you have any tips?

i get 400klms the most (1\2 city-1\2highway). and most of whats under the hood has been renewed or replaced. and my car done 105 000klms. so if ur doing better than that then ur doing better than me:D .plus mine a 2.6 astron.

slyts..
putting your foot down will usually drink about an extra 2-3 litres per 100
ie.. 65 litre tank at 10 litres per 100 = 650+
whereas 65 litres at 13 litres per 100 = 500
so don't drive heavy... also freeway driving and town driving differ by about a litre or 2
i just went on the north shore cruz... did some pretty heavy accelerating and i still got 550 kms from the tank...
btw is yours a v6? or 4cl? also manual and auto have different fuel economy rates..

SEON...
i have a recommendation for you...
get your cyclinders pressure tested.. if you don't have the gear yourself.. take it too a mechanic...
you could have a slightly bent intake/exhaust valve.. which will alter exhaust readouts and cause the ECU too Sh$t itslef and cause the car too use more fuel than it should...

i do some heavy footed driving and i will happily get 550 a tank.. if i drive like a old bat then about 700

The heads were vaccum tested....is it the same?

180 when hitting the half way mark? You realise that's only about 1/3 of the tank gone (dodgy fuel readouts). Which is alright. How many kms do you get from a FULL tank (by working out kms traveled vs. litres put in at the bowser). I think you're looking at about 500kms per tank, which isn't bad at all.


nope....my half tank is ablt 30lts....just pumped it......i just hit 14.7lt/100km......ARGH!!! :shock:

So that gives me about 400-420KM if i was to drive my car dry of fuel.....about there
dame....was doing 500+ this time last year.....dunno where it went wrong....

anyway resetted the ECU....gonna give it up till a week and see if anything improves.....pray do

nope....my half tank is ablt 30lts....just pumped it......i just hit 14.7lt/100km......ARGH!!! :shock:

So that gives me about 400-420KM if i was to drive my car dry of fuel.....about there
dame....was doing 500+ this time last year.....dunno where it went wrong....

anyway resetted the ECU....gonna give it up till a week and see if anything improves.....pray do

don't reset your ecu... it does nothing..
your computer is always fine tuning depending on the intake.. emissions.. everything.. reseetting it will only cause it too use the defaults.. which is worse... im sure.. (so unless you fis the problem don't bother..)

and NO vacuum testing the head is not the same thing..
you need a compression tester gauge which screws into where the spark plug goes in each piston.. you then crank the motor over( having prevented it from starting.. ie disconnecting the fuel or the dizzy)
you will then get a pressure reading which is forced thru the hole where the spark plug used to be.. (after doing all cyclinders..) you might notice that 1 or more.. are significantly lower in compression.. this will indicate a possible few things.. 1. valves..bent.. 2. excessive side to side piston movement causing block wear.. and well there are a few other such as rings and seals.. but i would say it would be your valves..
btw.. whats the mileage?

Run a bottle or two of injector cleaner first see if that makes any difference

']Run a bottle or two of injector cleaner first see if that makes any difference

did that and more....haha...going nuts.....anyway...pray after the ecu learns all my **** driving again.....would be better.....rem a thread "Since when there isn't a problem with 2nd gens" something like that........keeps on running thru my head lol

Thanks paul for all your help, alot of it.........

slyts..
putting your foot down will usually drink about an extra 2-3 litres per 100
ie.. 65 litre tank at 10 litres per 100 = 650+
whereas 65 litres at 13 litres per 100 = 500
so don't drive heavy... also freeway driving and town driving differ by about a litre or 2
i just went on the north shore cruz... did some pretty heavy accelerating and i still got 550 kms from the tank...
btw is yours a v6? or 4cl? also manual and auto have different fuel economy rates..


mine is a auto v6.

got 230k kms on it so its getting a bit tired after towing an 8ft by 5ft trailer with canopy full of trademans tools for about 150k kms :(

check thermostat temp guage must read half way . when i had my verada went on a trip 600klm there and back, my fuel usage was sh-t. took it to get tuned guy asked me where was temp guage reading . just over cold. changed thermostat got temp needle to sit half way. fuel consumption much improved. apparently if the ecu see's the engine is running cold it will pump more fuel in (choke ). also try using a lightly thinner oil and a good flowing oil ( purolator ,forget ryco and coopers )filter. i use valvoline engine armour 15w40 without any problems

check thermostat temp guage must read half way . when i had my verada went on a trip 600klm there and back, my fuel usage was sh-t. took it to get tuned guy asked me where was temp guage reading . just over cold. changed thermostat got temp needle to sit half way. fuel consumption much improved. apparently if the ecu see's the engine is running cold it will pump more fuel in (choke ). also try using a lightly thinner oil and a good flowing oil ( purolator ,forget ryco and coopers )filter. i use valvoline engine armour 15w40 without any problems

temp is always half way.....unless driving on cold night in freeway...then it would be sitting 1/4 way. never had a over heating problem......oil wise....i had tried so so many....even shell ultra, motul etc.....now on 20-50......well will see how this week goes....

When i change my oxygen senser, the old one wasn't black....so that takes away carbon and running rich.......always tot my was running rich till i saw it.....

Since you reset your ecu it will suck more fuel till it learns your driving habits. I would run at least two tanks of fuel you should start to see improvents after a weeks worth of driving depending on how many kays you do. I used to reset my ecu frequently cause i could never get more than 450kays out of it mines an auto 3.5. Then i just left it alone. Guess what i got past 500kays on my last tank so i was happy with that. This tank is even looking better. So leave it alone for a bit and see how you go.

Regards

and NO vacuum testing the head is not the same thing..
you need a compression tester gauge which screws into where the spark plug goes in each piston.. you then crank the motor over( having prevented it from starting.. ie disconnecting the fuel or the dizzy)

word, your internals may be tired... just wanted to state that you have to both disconnect the dizzy at the coil and disconnect the plug for the electronic fuel pump when compression testing otherwise you'll have sparkies sparking with no fuel or your engine being flooded...

should read around > 140psi or whatever is on the gauge

Absolutely as already said

Do a cylinder compression test.

Also .....

A neat trick is to put the piston on TDC, remove front camshaft black plastic cover, put a screw driver in cam to lock engine rotation still. (each cylinder done individually ... engine must be cold)

Remove throttle body rubber boot.

Hook up a compressor to cylinder, now it doesn't have to be a huge beast, just a tyre inflater will do. Fill the cylinder with air, turn off the compressor but make sure the cylinder holds pressure. This is done so there is no noise.

1. Put your ear or a plastic pipe at the exhaust pipe and listen. If there is an air noise it's a burnt exhaust valve

2. Put the hose in TB (open butterfly) ... listern could be burnt inlet valve.

3. Remove dip stick, listen with pipe could be blow by

4. Remove rocker cover cap (where the oil goes in) listen could be blow by

5. Remove radiator cap, look for the SLIGHTEST amount of air bubbles will be blown head gasket weeping between cyclinder and a water jacket.(It can be one way ie no water or very little in the cylinder)

6. Check every spark plug for a brown ring of dust or colour on the first 2 threads of the plug ..head gasket.

7. Does the engine oil go black quick ... blow by

Make sure the cylinder holds pressure during each test.

This sounds a lot of work, but it is the definative test for engine wear or negating to the cylinder with problem.

Also I would go to every electrical connection under the bonnet and use the product CRC CO Contact Cleaner (precision contact cleaning solvent) to make sure that every contact was as clean as the day it was made. FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS PLEASE.

I used it and it made a huge difference in the quality of the idle, engine start and cruise, not to mention the economy.

A bit long winded, but it works.

Good luck

My ks has a FPR, and well, it acutally had better fuel eccon than my missus KS on the open road and mine has more mods on it...

after a mate and I played with the FPR my fuel eccon went down the ****ter....

Alive,

Great post.

Rob

Thanks alot alive.....will try to do the test on the weekend....:D

Check your timing

Check your timing

timings been checked by mech.....think its 15+- at the moment....should be correct by the book......thinking of advancing it 2degrees more as i always use 95 or 98 fuel anyway...
been reading about advancing the timing...but the more i read the more confused it seems.....yet so many ppl says it like it easy......it most likely is easy just me not having a clue about it....:D

what size wheels you using. just did another fuel consumption test and i run lpgas. i run a pod filter with cold air intake valvoline engine armour 15w40 with ffi engine treatment and lube guard in auto trans also magnets on fuel line between converter and mixer, now running ssr mags with 205/50/15 tyres these are lighter than stockies. was getting 9.2-9.5 ltrs/100klm with my 17's which is fantastic, then went to stockies that came down to to approx 8.6-8.8 . have done a couple of runs now with the ssr rims and well find it hard to believe but first time was 7.9 today was 7.8 ltrs/100klm . this absolutely blew me away as this is on lpgas. will get mixtures checked to make sure its not running lean. my last tr magna i had i was lucky to get between 12-14 depending on the day. this is with a 2.6ltr as well. do 95% city and 5% hills and country driving . must say that i do get a good run out of bp gas compared to others.
wheel bearings are next probaly using a moly based grease to lessen friction and make car roll a bit better ( well thats the idea anyway )

alan:nuts:

...also magnets on fuel line between converter and mixer

You kinda lost all credibility with that there... Magnets? On an LPG line. Do what?

WTF is science at school teaching people?? Or more likely - not teaching?

Is it also fitted with a brock polariser?

Cheers
Heath Young

say what you like bud but have you tried them. or have you just read what every one else has. try before you start shooting off at the mouth eh.

hmmm....magnets......haha...i actually have one too:redface: ....a round bloody strong magnet around the fuel line just before the fuel rail....no diff for me(got it free anywaylol ).......cheers

Does anyone's car uses more fuel at COLD night? Mine seems to do that. Furthermore, at night about 2am, my engine temp will only be 1/4 wayup while driving even after driving awhile, normal?.....the temperature level is always halfway during the day or are warming up awhile without moving...i never had a overheating problem.

Fuel economy and the 2.6 injected engine. You MUST change your thermostat if the needle is not constantly on half no matter where or what sort of driving you do. If the ECU is in the clod start/warmup part of the map, it will ignore O2 sensor readings and just fuel according to map.
Timing is critical, 15btdc without bypassed computer works well.
Was the O2 sensor new? Not a second hand one?
Cat convertor must be checked, never rely on a mechanic. You need to have exhaust pressure tested in the exhaust before the cat convertor. Use the O2 sensor bung. I doubt cat convertor, but it should be checked.
Check torque convertor locks up.
Check computer for stored warnings.
Ditch adjustable pressure regulator. Pointless unless you have serious engine mods.
We have a TS 2.6 with 230k kms on it, it just returned 10.5l /100kms Canberra and return to Newcaste, including getting stuck in Sydney peak hour. I would expect mid 9's highway only.
As also mentioned, boot it everywhere and watch economy go through the floor.
Premium unleaded is a complete waste on the injected 2.6, no gains to be had, and this may also affect economy, a higher octane fuel may not burn completely before exhaust valve opens.
Try all teh above and get back to us. Do not miss any steps.

Regards, Andrew.

Fuel economy and the 2.6 injected engine. You MUST change your thermostat if the needle is not constantly on half no matter where or what sort of driving you do. If the ECU is in the clod start/warmup part of the map, it will ignore O2 sensor readings and just fuel according to map.
Timing is critical, 15btdc without bypassed computer works well.
Was the O2 sensor new? Not a second hand one?
Cat convertor must be checked, never rely on a mechanic. You need to have exhaust pressure tested in the exhaust before the cat convertor. Use the O2 sensor bung. I doubt cat convertor, but it should be checked.
Check torque convertor locks up.
Check computer for stored warnings.
Ditch adjustable pressure regulator. Pointless unless you have serious engine mods.
We have a TS 2.6 with 230k kms on it, it just returned 10.5l /100kms Canberra and return to Newcaste, including getting stuck in Sydney peak hour. I would expect mid 9's highway only.
As also mentioned, boot it everywhere and watch economy go through the floor.
Premium unleaded is a complete waste on the injected 2.6, no gains to be had, and this may also affect economy, a higher octane fuel may not burn completely before exhaust valve opens.
Try all teh above and get back to us. Do not miss any steps.

Regards, Andrew.

Right...O2 sensor new, changed it last week.
Magnaflow hifo cat convertor just install,
timing just advanced to about 18tdc-coz always used 98 fuel,
"torque convertor locks up" - tot this is a gearbox thing?...auto no problems
ecu was checked and cleared-using a snap-on ecu checker,
adjustable fuel pressure regulator adjusted to 38psi which is pretty much like stock,

whats left is to change the thermostat .... most likely in the weekend....

sigh....thanks typhoon:D will keep all updated

So the thermostat needle should ALWAYS be half way no matter where or what sort of driving??? hmmm.....just like just now..about 4am, if the warms up without moving till halfway mark....then i drive....give it like 5mins it will drop to about 1/4 way......always tot it was because of the cold night air that cool the coolent down that much? So mys stuffed?

A temp gauge that moves around while driving( ignoring cold warm up) is a good indication of a thermostat stuck open. It doesn't take much for it to stay open, even a small gap ( my TS V6 had a 1mm gap when closed) will prevent the engine from warming up properly.
MY V6 would overcool on the freeway, giving poor economy.
Another thing that can cause problems is a faulty temp sender for teh computer, but the Mitsubishi ones don't seem to cause grief.
Seon, I would replace thermostat, I guarantee it's stuck open. If an engine ever overheats, they default to stuck open.
Once you replace thermostat, record your fuel consumption figures for a few weeks. It will come down steadily.

Regards, Andrew.

Surely after all these posts you have got the message:

Change your thermostat!!!

Rob

Does anyone's car uses more fuel at COLD night? Mine seems to do that. Furthermore, at night about 2am, my engine temp will only be 1/4 wayup while driving even after driving awhile, normal?.....the temperature level is always halfway during the day or are warming up awhile without moving...i never had a overheating problem.

yeh my V6 does the same thing..
the reason it uses more fuel is because the ECU richens up the mixture to heat up the motor to operating temperature..
also the reason your gauge stays at a 1/4 is because the air temp is so cold at night that freeway driving at 120-130 and the motor cools down too quickly with the cold air...
i am assuming the needle stays at roughly 1/4 on freeway and back up to 1/2 in traffic? or city driving..?

...typhoon... dude.. i drive V6 5spd and mine does what SEON's does and i still get 700+kms from 1 tank... which is ~ 10l/100 so maybe my thermostat needs replacing to?

yeh my V6 does the same thing..
the reason it uses more fuel is because the ECU richens up the mixture to heat up the motor to operating temperature..
also the reason your gauge stays at a 1/4 is because the air temp is so cold at night that freeway driving at 120-130 and the motor cools down too quickly with the cold air...
i am assuming the needle stays at roughly 1/4 on freeway and back up to 1/2 in traffic? or city driving..?

...typhoon... dude.. i drive V6 5spd and mine does what SEON's does and i still get 700+kms from 1 tank... which is ~ 10l/100 so maybe my thermostat needs replacing to?


my thermostat sits on half, everywhere. I believe this to be normal.

oh and also the temperature gauge is actually for your water temperature.. not engine temperature... so thats why its colder at night...because of this the water that flushes around the engine to keep it operating correctly is constantly cold therefore the engine runs a little cooler than normal on freeway(hence fuel consumption)

Surely after all these posts you have got the message:

Change your thermostat!!!

Rob

YES I GOT IT.....:D DONE New thermostat IN!!!.....will keep all updated about the progressl...thanks all

oh and also the temperature gauge is actually for your water temperature.. not engine temperature... so thats why its colder at night...because of this the water that flushes around the engine to keep it operating correctly is constantly cold therefore the engine runs a little cooler than normal on freeway(hence fuel consumption)

Is there any telltail signs of the engine temperature being faulty?

Actually before this thread, I ALWAYS tot it was normal for it tobe like that and also that it was a good thing.....noob...lol

oh and also the temperature gauge is actually for your water temperature.. not engine temperature... so thats why its colder at night...because of this the water that flushes around the engine to keep it operating correctly is constantly cold therefore the engine runs a little cooler than normal on freeway(hence fuel consumption)


Wrong. Thermostat keeps coolant at optimum temperature. A fluctuating temperature gauge indicates a thermostat or other problem.

Regards, Andrew.

well actually typhoon......
i have recently replaced my thermostat...
and it still stays at 1/4 in very cold temperatures...
if you have ever driven in the snow... you would know that..
plus i have consulted multiple auto elec's and they all say that is perfectly fine..
i could understand if the gauge was moving irradically... but i it doesn't...
so i would like to see what SEON experiences with a new thermostat :)
SEON let us know mate

Mate, I've owned more cars than you've had birthdays, I think I know what's normal on a car and what's not. To suggest I should drive in snow to know what it's all about is ludicrous, you do know that many places in Australia can get to similar or lower temperatures overnight than the alpine regions, don't you?
I suggest you get your car looked at pronto. Oh, and find a decent auto electrician. The gauge should read half consistently, regardless of load and conditions. Did your "automotive electrician" measure the coolant temperature with a thermometer? Do you know your gauge works correctly?
The thermostat regulates coolant flow through the engine, and that temperature WILL remain constant if the thermostat is working correctly, and is correctly installed. You do know they can be installed upside down, or can have pieces of dirt/gasket under the thermostat, which will cause overcooling.........
It is normal for a temperature gauge to sit right in the middle, at least, every TR/S I have owned or driven has been the same, as has every other car I have owned, oh, and every motorbike..............
Anyway, this is one of the reasons I don't come onto this forum much, young kids on their first or second car who know it all about cars trying to tell people who know how wrong they are.
You can either learn, or pretend to know it all and be uneducated all your life.
Your call.

I completely agree with typhoon. If your thermostat is working correctly the coolant temperature as registered by the gauge should be the same regardless of whether the car is in a cold or hot environment.

The temperature gauge sender in most cars is in the thermostat housing just below the thermostat where the hot coolant from the engine comes out. If the thermostat is working correctly then temperatures there should be constant. Any rise causes the thermostat to open more and vice versa. If in a cold environment the the thermostat lets less coolant through and maintains a constant engine temperature.

Rob

typhoon,
i am telling you what i have been told by multiple auto elec's (not 1 or 2 but 7 of them) and they all say it is normal for temperature reading to vary.. not a problem at all...
i am not trying to think i know it all... only from what others have told me..
thats why i said that i would like to see the results of SEON's new thermostat in his car..
and see if it still move's in cold temps..
if its wrong then i will happily kick the ****s of all 7 of those F**Ked up auto elecs and tell them they don't know what they are talking about..
and i will get mine looked at by somebody else

typhoon,
i am telling you what i have been told by multiple auto elec's (not 1 or 2 but 7 of them) and they all say it is normal for temperature reading to vary.. not a problem at all...
i am not trying to think i know it all... only from what others have told me..
thats why i said that i would like to see the results of SEON's new thermostat in his car..
and see if it still move's in cold temps..
if its wrong then i will happily kick the ****s of all 7 of those F**Ked up auto elecs and tell them they don't know what they are talking about..
and i will get mine looked at by somebody else
You should start the *** whooping now mate, because they're all wrong. I highly doubt you saw 7 different auto electricians, there can't be that many incompetent auto electricians in a small area, can there? Someone is feeding you crap mate, you can't believe everything you hear. Every single car i've owned, and my family has ever owned, the temp needle has been half way regardless of ambient temperature because that's how a car works.

Sorry for the late reply...been busy with work and uni.....

Anyway, changed the thermo...and the engine temp is sitting nicely in the middle regardless day/night.....fuel usage wise seems tobe getting better SLOWLY.....maybe just need for time for the ecu. right....another thing that was fixed was that the rear exhuast header was leaking air....but it was very minor...dun think it affected performance much....and also a magnaflow hifo cat fitted.....about a week+ ago the WORST fuel usage was about 16+L per 100km.....now seems tobe dropping to about 14-15L.....pray it would drop further...

Performance wise......can't complain...been driving pretty good..
next thing on the list is to ultrasound the injectors....got a deal for about $100-120 for all six....sounds like a dame good deal to me...and then maybe barry's fuel rail kit......or both together to save time fitting it in.....

Will keep up with reports......Cheers

Looks like i have some a$$ woopin to do..
hmm.. where did i put that little black book..
better get my thermo changed then ...

Looks like i have some a$$ woopin to do..
hmm.. where did i put that little black book..
better get my thermo changed then ...
Hehe, good luck mate. That's why this forum is so great because it arms you with real knowledge to take into the battle of the mechanics land. :bowrofl:

Interesting thing happened this week......I took out all six sparks to check the engine compression.....seems good....was holding at about 130-150psi....as the same time i clean the sparks with a buffer....BUT the gap was all wrong....mine is supposed to be 1.1cm(NGK Iridium IX) but all were at around 7.5-8mm...anyway gapped it will the right height and alls good......till now I can't complain about how the car runs......but fuel is only improveing slightly......see how things go

Interesting thing happened this week......I took out all six sparks to check the engine compression.....seems good....was holding at about 130-150psi....as the same time i clean the sparks with a buffer....BUT the gap was all wrong....mine is supposed to be 1.1cm(NGK Iridium IX) but all were at around 7.5-8mm...anyway gapped it will the right height and alls good......till now I can't complain about how the car runs......but fuel is only improveing slightly......see how things go

lol it'll improve further, i'd say it'll be running rich or lean depending on how the spark plugs made the mixture burn and the subsequent ecu changes, but i cant be bothered thinking further on it or my head will ache... congrats

lol it'll improve further, i'd say it'll be running rich or lean depending on how the spark plugs made the mixture burn and the subsequent ecu changes, but i cant be bothered thinking further on it or my head will ache... congrats

hmm....don't think it was running rich....when i cleaned the sparks...there weren't much carbon deposits....anyway lesson learnt....even when buying new sparks.....CHECK THE GAP!
bloody ngk....lol