Ok well i have been thinking about building a pod box of some type, but wanted to make sure i did it right the first time. so got my self a digital thermometer placed the probe in the iar box and had the read out on the windscreen so i could read it.

Ambient Temp was 16.5 degrees

under bonet temp after driving around for about 40mins 53deg

1. with standard CAI 26deg when normal driving
31 deg after driving up hill then stoppping

2. just box CAI removed 36deg when driving
44+ deg after driving up hill then stopping. temp was building (shows you still get flow from out side with no CAI but car drove crap woulnd't recomend this)

3. Pipe to standard air box
but down to under that car 23 deg when driving


hope this helps people thinking about making a CAI
25 deg awhen stopped


3 was giving the best all around temps althoug pipe gets hot next to the raidator hose and would be heating air as it goes up it

so after your findings, what are you going to do with oyur intake?

im thinking pod in box with standard or simular CAI. this will give a bigger area for air to filter so less restriction using the pod.

although there might be a test 4 tomorrow with a sligh modification for test 3 using a different pipe set up. i want to have it so when the air is sucked in my car is getting close to ambient temp.

there was such i difference to driving with an average of 38deg to 28. so i guess if i can make something that get its down another 10 it will also be better.


the pipe i use also gave me a bigger area that the standard CAI so with that and the pod the restriction should be ever less.

will keep this updated

maybe try insulatin the pipe or ur engine bay:think: it might make a diff specially this summer will be a total heat:cool:

im going to try a 1 other spot. thne i will get the best idea of where i can get the coolest air. then i got to work on stopping the pipe heating up

ok put pod on today. untill the car was hot it went better more responsive. i belive the pod open to the engin bay went better than the standard filter. so next i need to try pof in a box.

also has a really weird exhaust note. very deep

It's not the exhaust note, it's the intake sound of the exposed pod.

Not meaning to whinge, but 3 degrees difference doesn't leave a lot of room for errors. How many times have you repeated this to prove that a pipe to down low is actually significantly cooler than the stock intake? The stock snorkel is in its place for a reason -- it was just as easy for mitsubishi engineers to run 90mm pipe to the front bar.

I think the whole concept of cold air intakes is pretty stupid, especially on a hot day. You can literally see how hot the air is next to the road on a summer day, so effectively you're making a hot air intake. At night at any time of year, I could agree with the theory.

It's not the exhaust note, it's the intake sound of the exposed pod.

how would the pod make a deep throbing sound? and im 99% sure its coming from the rear of the car. as you put the rear window down and it gets louder. also same sound if you take the standard CAI off.



Not meaning to whinge, but 3 degrees difference doesn't leave a lot of room for errors. How many times have you repeated this to prove that a pipe to down low is actually significantly cooler than the stock intake? The stock snorkel is in its place for a reason -- it was just as easy for mitsubishi engineers to run 90mm pipe to the front bar.

I think the whole concept of cold air intakes is pretty stupid, especially on a hot day. You can literally see how hot the air is next to the road on a summer day, so effectively you're making a hot air intake. At night at any time of year, I could agree with the theory.

as for testing. i was giving the the around about averages. i drove the same place 5 mins apart and with the 90mm pipe down to the road it was getting down to 22-23 deg. with the standard CAI i didn't see it drop below 25 deg. no if anything the standard CAI should be cooler as the car had been driven less

as for testing. i was giving the the around about averages. i drove the same place 5 mins apart and with the 90mm pipe down to the road it was getting down to 22-23 deg. with the standard CAI i didn't see it drop below 25 deg. no if anything the standard CAI should be cooler as the car had been driven less

Dont take this the wrong way, but thats only 1 sample from each variable. You need to repeat it several times for it to be reliable, like 5 or 10. Also because I've got time to waste and I'm feeling nerdy.. here's a little bit of proof that CAI gains are negligible:

Say your results are reliable and you get a 3 - 4 degree drop in temperature. Being generous we'll call it 5 degrees. From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_density , check out the importance of temperature in a table. The middle column is density, assuming 0% humidity and at sea level. If you consistenly got temperatures that are 5 degrees lower, thats only 2.4% more air.

Making another assumption that this 2.4% of extra air combusts completely, using the stock 155kw at the flywheel, that makes it 158.72kw. Assuming 15% drivetrain loss for manual (again pretty generous), thats just over 3k at the wheels.

In terms of power to weight ratio, quarter mile times, and bum in the seat dyno it won't make a squat of difference. And of course, this is all under the almighty assumption that lower air is colder.

I think the whole concept of cold air intakes is pretty stupid, especially on a hot day. You can literally see how hot the air is next to the road on a summer day, so effectively you're making a hot air intake. At night at any time of year, I could agree with the theory.


Maybe one of the reasons street racers race at night?

maybe try insulatin the pipe or ur engine bay:think: it might make a diff specially this summer will be a total heat:cool:

How Exactly can i "insulate" my pipe, i dont care what anyone says but when i had my CAi in the car got up and f**king went alot harder then without, until of course the pipe shrunk around the battery to around half the size doing absolutly f**k all.

If there is some heatproof solution i would love to hear it, becuase i really cannot be f**ked relocating everything just for a stupid pipe.

Good work pete

']How Exactly can i "insulate" my pipe, i dont care what anyone says but when i had my CAi in the car got up and f**king went alot harder then without, until of course the pipe shrunk around the battery to around half the size doing absolutly f**k all.

If there is some heatproof solution i would love to hear it, becuase i really cannot be f**ked relocating everything just for a stupid pipe.

Good work pete
aluminum heat shielding would be one :).

Maybe one of the reasons street racers race at night?

No, everyone gets the same temperature air. Both cars go slower during the day, faster at night. I think it's more due to less traffic and police.

Dont take this the wrong way, but thats only 1 sample from each variable. You need to repeat it several times for it to be reliable, like 5 or 10. Also because I've got time to waste and I'm feeling nerdy.. here's a little bit of proof that CAI gains are negligible:

Say your results are reliable and you get a 3 - 4 degree drop in temperature. Being generous we'll call it 5 degrees. From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_density , check out the importance of temperature in a table. The middle column is density, assuming 0% humidity and at sea level. If you consistenly got temperatures that are 5 degrees lower, thats only 2.4% more air.

Making another assumption that this 2.4% of extra air combusts completely, using the stock 155kw at the flywheel, that makes it 158.72kw. Assuming 15% drivetrain loss for manual (again pretty generous), thats just over 3k at the wheels.

In terms of power to weight ratio, quarter mile times, and bum in the seat dyno it won't make a squat of difference. And of course, this is all under the almighty assumption that lower air is colder.

so are you saying 3kws for $9. i would say thats the best kw/$ a magna could ever get. then also running the 90mm pipe the flow rate it slower as its a bigger cross sectional area, so then less drag for the intake. and as for standard CAI and 90mm pipe there isn't a big difference in temp but but less drag. but what im working on is getting a CAI that sucks air closer to the ambien temp air.

so going back to the 16.5 deg ambient and the standard CAI was about 10 deg more. thats like less than 1m where its heating the air up 10 deg.

but i think with the pod and a little development of my pipe CAI there could be ok gains as the pod was giving more response till it was sucking the hot air and with the pod and cooler air i think i could drop it 5-10 degress through a less resistance air filter

I've been doing similar measurements and had similar figures than u. What I'd like to know is the temp inside the plenum, close to intake manifold. Might be easy just to remove the PCV hose for time being and insert probe in there, obviously appropriately sealed with a cork or what ever in the meanwhile...
I also measured the temp off the road (in sunshine) when ambient was some 35 deg. At the CAI intake at my grill, the temp was same as above the bonnet level. I was bit surprised cos I thought it would have been hotter closer to the road. Anyway, there was no significant diff at all. 5 cm off the asphalt it was hot.

how would the pod make a deep throbing sound? and im 99% sure its coming from the rear of the car. as you put the rear window down and it gets louder. also same sound if you take the standard CAI off.

PODS do make that noise, my mate has a stock as a rock little 1.3L suzuki, normally you couldn't hear the engine ever, after a POD it sounds like we stuck on a 3" straight thru zorst lol

It's the intake or induction noise. Reverberation of air. Not necessarily related to type of air filter as much as whether it's in sealed box or not.

It's the intake or induction noise. Reverberation of air. Not necessarily related to type of air filter as much as whether it's in sealed box or not.


this is right, for anyone that wants to know the sound take the standard CAI of go for a drive, it sounds rather fat. till you car heats u and goes like poo

']How Exactly can i "insulate" my pipe, i dont care what anyone says but when i had my CAi in the car got up and f**king went alot harder then without, until of course the pipe shrunk around the battery to around half the size doing absolutly f**k all.

If there is some heatproof solution i would love to hear it, becuase i really cannot be f**ked relocating everything just for a stupid pipe.

Good work pete

have a look at http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23322&d=1153033233

it is about $35. and kept this area of the pipe a bit cooler. mine failed at the bottom more so. maybe tape around the radiator hose????

so are you saying 3kws for $9. i would say thats the best kw/$ a magna could ever get. then also running the 90mm pipe the flow rate it slower as its a bigger cross sectional area, so then less drag for the intake. and as for standard CAI and 90mm pipe there isn't a big difference in temp but but less drag.

Didn't really wanna dig this back up, but read my post again. All the figures I used were extremely generous. I gave you extra temperature drop, no humidity, complete combustion, and a conservative drivetrain loss. In the real world it would end up being closer to 1 or 2kw difference. And also, this is assuming that the bent ribbed piping you're using isn't actually more restrictive than the stock intake lol

At the end of the day even a 3kw difference really isn't worth your time worrying about. Instead of filling up your tank to full only fill it to 3/4 and you'll get better acceleration.

Whatever floats your boat though :doubt:

Didn't really wanna dig this back up, but read my post again. All the figures I used were extremely generous. I gave you extra temperature drop, no humidity, complete combustion, and a conservative drivetrain loss. In the real world it would end up being closer to 1 or 2kw difference. And also, this is assuming that the bent ribbed piping you're using isn't actually more restrictive than the stock intake lol

At the end of the day even a 3kw difference really isn't worth your time worrying about. Instead of filling up your tank to full only fill it to 3/4 and you'll get better acceleration.

Whatever floats your boat though :doubt:

A few people have dyno proven that upto an average of 6kW (at the wheels) can be had by modifing the standard intake. Sure this figure might not be as high in the real world, but for such a cheap mod, it's worth it. Even Mitsubishi NZ saw improvments by changing the standard intake snorkel (about 6kW again in their own testing). I'm sure they would have saved their time and money if it wasn't worth it!!!

Didn't really wanna dig this back up, but read my post again. All the figures I used were extremely generous. I gave you extra temperature drop, no humidity, complete combustion, and a conservative drivetrain loss. In the real world it would end up being closer to 1 or 2kw difference. And also, this is assuming that the bent ribbed piping you're using isn't actually more restrictive than the stock intake lol

At the end of the day even a 3kw difference really isn't worth your time worrying about. Instead of filling up your tank to full only fill it to 3/4 and you'll get better acceleration.

Whatever floats your boat though :doubt:


and again i will say even 1kw for $9 in a mgan is better than nearly anything else you can do. say extractors say 10kws from the $600 you could spend. and as for the Bent ribbed piping, im not using bent ribbed piping so dont worry about that, also i have checked the flow rates of the piping im using and its better than the standard CAI,

so even with what you said i know the car drives better the cooler air you get, the pod is less restrictive than the standard filter.

so i see
cooler air
better flowing CAI
and better flowing filter
even if i get 1-5kws more the car should be and is more responsive. so i see it as all good

The power/temperature curve isn't linear.

At 10 degrees a motor makes say 100kw
at 20 degrees the same motor makes 99.5kw
at 30 degrees the same motor makes 99kw
at 40 degrees the same motor makes 98.5kw
at 50 degrees the same motor makes 98kw
at 60 degrees the same motor makes 95kw
at 70 degrees the same motor makes 90kw
at 80 degrees the same motor makes 80kw

This is just an example from tests I have done, but as you can see, when around 10-40 degrees the gravity of air doesn't change all that much. However once you start to get above 65-70 degrees you can see how CAI induction or intercooling could help.

Bolting PVC stuff up to a std airbox will not make a noticable difference, the air heats up too quickly in the intake tract.

Bolting PVC stuff up to a std airbox will not make a noticable difference, the air heats up too quickly in the intake tract.

I agree, but it's not the cooler air temperature but more-so the flow improvement of modifying the stock intake snorkel that gives the power increase in the 3rd gens.

If you look at the NZ setup, there is no pipe going to bottom of the b/bar, but rather a re-routed pick up that draws air from behind the RHS headlight (in between the headlight and battery). I'm sure this area is a higher presure zone when compared tot he standard intake pick-up point that is blocked by a rubber seal.

The power/temperature curve isn't linear.

At 10 degrees a motor makes say 100kw
at 20 degrees the same motor makes 99.5kw
at 30 degrees the same motor makes 99kw
at 40 degrees the same motor makes 98.5kw
at 50 degrees the same motor makes 98kw
at 60 degrees the same motor makes 95kw
at 70 degrees the same motor makes 90kw
at 80 degrees the same motor makes 80kw

This is just an example from tests I have done, but as you can see, when around 10-40 degrees the gravity of air doesn't change all that much. However once you start to get above 65-70 degrees you can see how CAI induction or intercooling could help.

Bolting PVC stuff up to a std airbox will not make a noticable difference, the air heats up too quickly in the intake tract.


i agree kinda im not expecting anything special, this was more see what i can do for not a lot of money, this is why i have been taking temps around different areas.

but i can say when the car was sucking in air around 38+deg it was a lot different to the 23 deg air. just didn't want to pull with the hot air

A 5kW gain or loss really doesn't tell you much. Torque gains are what matter as power is (Nm x rpm)/9550. For example if my car lost 15Nm at 6000 rpm but gained 10Nm from 0 to 3000 rpm then the car would be quicker. The CAI would probably give the biggest benefit at the lower rpm's where the intake air has a lower kinetic energy, so a small decrease in pumping losses will have the biggest effect.

There must be a reason why Sprintex install a "90mm pipe to the bumper" style CAI with their kits.

ok.


WILL YOU ALL PLEASE STFU!!!

How many times do we have to have this frigging debate!?!

ok.


WILL YOU ALL PLEASE STFU!!!

How many times do we have to have this frigging debate!?!
everyone seems ot be getting all annoyed at my findings. if you dont belive this dont post here. i figured i would post up what i got to give the people interested in it an idea.

so if you want to say im wrong go post somewhere else, becuase what i found and i think Killer found was that there is a difference for were the CAI is.

i dont get why people are so against it, it cost me less than $9 for the pipe and $30 thermometer. and i have found some interesting things with it.

so if you want to say im wrong, dont bother posting as im still going to fiddle around and see what i can do.


and if it works i will post it up for the people that want to know to see what i found best, but no dout the same people will tell me it doesn't work

everyone seems ot be getting all annoyed at my findings. if you dont belive this dont post here. i figured i would post up what i got to give the people interested in it an idea.

so if you want to say im wrong go post somewhere else, becuase what i found and i think Killer found was that there is a difference for were the CAI is.

i dont get why people are so against it, it cost me less than $9 for the pipe and $30 thermometer. and i have found some interesting things with it.

so if you want to say im wrong, dont bother posting as im still going to fiddle around and see what i can do.


and if it works i will post it up for the people that want to know to see what i found best, but no dout the same people will tell me it doesn't work

Yeah but you could present them with a dyno sheet and quarter mile times they would still make all these claims about real world driving. Every 3 months i see this thread and every 3 months its the same crap.

How many times do we have to have this frigging debate!?!

Untill it's settled!!!, even if it take forever lol

Yeah but you could present them with a dyno sheet and quarter mile times they would still make all these claims about real world driving. Every 3 months i see this thread and every 3 months its the same crap.
yeah but every 3 months its people asking if a pod if better than a normly filter. i have done a little more with intake temps and flow rates.



i think i have another spot for my CAI. as far as i know never been done like this before. so will see on the weekend. the pipe will be a lot cooler and as a very short distance to the air filter.

If i end up going to the drags in a couple of weeks i'll experiment with filters, cai etc. and post my findings. That should give us SOME indication, shouldn't it?

lol, piv where except iraq do temps get above 53* off the road, the roadholds some heat but a pipe moving 10cm above the road won't hold any of it. Dont make me dig up Newtons law of cooling (cause i cbf'd). Also there's something to do with the pressure difference of the air, as in why it feels way cooler when youre riding a motorbike at 60km/h as opposed to walking...

On the 2nd gen the stock intake, takes in air from the headlight and tries to get some from the gap between the bonnet and i can think of a few things why mitsubishi have it that way; eg to keep it quiet, mine was noticably louder with cai (because 2nd gens have none at the factory). Also it looks tacky, the only way these fits is us molding the ribbed piping around other components.

This is all forgeting the ram air effectss that these have (less effective on these), looks at the extreme's supercar and shizzle, i can tell you theirs differs from the factory, same with our uni's race car. Similar to a go kart it takes air from the front like f1 cars and then to the r6 engine at the back... i can tell you countless hours have gone into that design.

edit* try it and if it works for you keep it, mine did.

Settle Gentlemen, settle :D

We all know this is all very theoretical and has minimal effect and most of us might never know/feel the difference. But allow us to do some "engineering experiments" and share such findings. No harm in that. Cos, after all, these do make a small difference.

Back to work now - I mean the paid work, this boring office work I'm doing right now.... :cry:

Oh, have I mentioned, that different tyre temperatures heat the tyre tread differently, which is an indication of contact patch efficiency....? (heheheheheheheh)

digging up something old, but here are some pics of the CAI im making it is a L shape now, just no pics of it.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j77/pmckewen/PC300013.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j77/pmckewen/PC300011.jpg

I dumped an exposed pod into my engine bay and the car sounded good, but didn't take long to labour to keep up with traffic in summer. So I built a pod box (and sold a lot of them too - they're all sold so don't pm plz!! :) ) and cai with a FORWARD FACING inlet. Fuel economy improved by 0.7l/100 due (as I discovered later) to the positive head of air pressure (however small) more so than the improved air pickup point. As soon as my forward facing inlet was torn off during an encounter with a parking barrier, my econ lost 0.5l/100, which was my actual gain from the cai. Go figure.

Would I recommend a cai and pod box. Yep.

Would I drive with an unshielded pod filter. Nope. At least not with it in the factory MAF location.

There must be a reason why Sprintex install a "90mm pipe to the bumper" style CAI with their kits.


wow this is old... i can tell you that they dont do this anymore..

and secondly about the factory cai bein blocked by a seal....

look closley!! it doesnt it goes around the opening, not blocking it...

the fact is that the factory magna cai is pretty damn good and isnt that restrictive, it just needs a little opening up (say 5-10mm higher opening)

im pulling about 230kw at the fly and the intake isnt an issue

Yessss, I had noticed that about the seal too, have also read about the air intake being opened up a bit like you described and have seen pictures of it on commodores but not on the magnas.

Do you have any pics? I'm curious to see how you open that intake by 5-10mm.