hey guys, yep stil around the scrubs. pop in every now and then just lookin at the possibility of gettin an AWD maybe down the track. just wondering a few things...

1. what mods will i need to crack 15 seconds? any of u boys done it here?

2. is there a better series to get? i wanna TJ, does anyonbe know if anythin was changed between series one and two?

3. what kinda power can the drivetrain, tranny, gearbox etc take?

4. any Mivec or other engines bolt up to the TJ AWD's?

any help appreciated.

cheers

Trav

to crack 15 sec? like a 15.99 for example? id put $50 on it that with stock rims mine would do that easy...

do a search cos i forgot the exact details but i think the box it rated to 550nm

as far as i know the awd's are all s2 TJ's, ohh and they sound better ;) mines stock exhaust and ashneel reckons it sounds like a V8 :badgrin:

why not buy a wrecked awd and make it rwd with a nth sth engine, like a lexus 4L...

ok sorry. lets aim for 14.5

cheers

Trav

that would need a bit of work! id look at removing weight if it wasnt an everyday car, but i reckon cams etc would do it, they have a loose convertor and the low 1st would help compared with a 4spd auto to get it moving, i've recorded a 7.2 0-100 easy and mines stock...

funny though that on the supercharger site, or somewhere they reckon an awd will do a flat 15 with the supercharger kit.... i dont believe that...

3. what kinda power can the drivetrain, tranny, gearbox etc take?


a fair bit as the parts are common with the automatic evos. i doubt youd have any problems...

You will need A LOT of work to get an AWD into the 14's. The Sprintex AWD ran a 16.7 stock, 15.1 after the supercharger went on. The gearbox, drivetrain etc will be fine man. If I was you, and wanted an AWD into the 14's, I'd put aside about $15k and get twin turbos. The AWD's lack low down torque because of the way they're geared, so the twins would help this, then the top end would benefit a lot too. Big thing with the AWD's is weight. I mean they're like 1700+ kgs? from memory, so any weight shedding you can do is obviously going to be a plus.

the awds are only 120kg more than the equivalent 2wd magna

Yep - with 15.1's for a SC'ed AWD, 14's is possible - extractors + highflow cat, maybe a panel filter (the sprintex AWD has a dual exhaust). 15.1 to 14.9 is probably not *that* much of an ask. (Hey, its still a 14 :badgrin: )

Cheers
Heath Young

to crack 15 sec? like a 15.99 for example? id put $50 on it that with stock rims mine would do that easy...
I'll take your $50 then! While it wont be far off, it wont crack the 15's dead stock. The AWD is slower than the 2wd variant (which i happen to have) and there's no way the awd would get a 15.xx. My car wouldn't even crack the 15's stock. Exhaust upgrade as well as some intake mods may see a 15 second awd.

the awds are only 120kg more than the equivalent 2wd magna

It's not just the weight increase, but also the increase in drivetrain loss. The AWDs put less power to the ground as that power is shared by four wheels instead of two. :P

say if the awd was converted to manual, and the twin turbo install was bolt on, what would the 0-100 figure look like?

say if the awd was converted to manual, and the twin turbo install was bolt on, what would the 0-100 figure look like?
Would be too hard to estimate accurately there are too many variables. If you were to take the evo lancer as an example, and assuming your drivetrain could handle the power, you could get as quick as a stock evo, assuming you matched your power/torque to weight ratio perfectly.

You will need A LOT of work to get an AWD into the 14's. The Sprintex AWD ran a 16.7 stock, 15.1 after the supercharger went on. The gearbox, drivetrain etc will be fine man. If I was you, and wanted an AWD into the 14's, I'd put aside about $15k and get twin turbos. The AWD's lack low down torque because of the way they're geared, so the twins would help this, then the top end would benefit a lot too. Big thing with the AWD's is weight. I mean they're like 1700+ kgs from memory, so any weight shedding you can do is obviously going to be a plus.

There isnt a lack of low down torque. The first gear in them is very low. They would be quicker off the mark than a FWD but then when you hit 40 or so the extra weight and the drivetrain loss slows it down. Drivetrain loss would be 1/3. I got 118kW at all wheels but that was with a few mods. Stock you would be looking at 100-105kw ATW.

Would be too hard to estimate accurately there are too many variables. If you were to take the evo lancer as an example, and assuming your drivetrain could handle the power, you could get as quick as a stock evo, assuming you matched your power/torque to weight ratio perfectly.

reason i wouldn't mind considering this as an option for my project car, it would have to a tj model due to the fact i don't like the look of the models after it

ok sorry. lets aim for 14.5


Buy my car lol, its FWD though and I've done a 14.5, 14.4 is next, just .03 away :rant:

why don;t you aim for 12 - 13 second magna

There isnt a lack of low down torque. The first gear in them is very low. They would be quicker off the mark than a FWD but then when you hit 40 or so the extra weight and the drivetrain loss slows it down. Drivetrain loss would be 1/3. I got 118kW at all wheels but that was with a few mods. Stock you would be looking at 100-105kw ATW.
Oh really? I was reading someone else saying in another thread that first gear was very tall, and so off the line accelleration is quite sluggish. My bad then.

Basicaly... if you get the right set up... you gonna eat a FWD as far as traction goes... FWD will go quicker for less money... but if you strenghten the drive train properly and TT the engine.... hang one... im not sure but how would a GTO engine and Drive train go? the 3000GT's do like 13sec stock... is there any similarities in the drive trains? im going to lok that up.

sorry for rant... typing to myself is an issue

Basicaly... if you get the right set up... you gonna eat a FWD as far as traction goes... FWD will go quicker for less money... but if you strenghten the drive train properly and TT the engine.... hang one... im not sure but how would a GTO engine and Drive train go? the 3000GT's do like 13sec stock... is there any similarities in the drive trains? im going to lok that up.

sorry for rant... typing to myself is an issue
GTO motor is the wrong way around for TE+

Oh really? I was reading someone else saying in another thread that first gear was very tall, and so off the line accelleration is quite sluggish. My bad then.



I hate that someone..... there is always SOMEONE who never knows facts and just repeats what they think they know and are wrong (not having a go at you!!)

the 5spd auto is geared like this in the AWD
1st 3.789
2nd 2.057
3rd 1.421
4th 1.00
5th 0.731

final 3.684

the fwd 4 spd auto is geared
1st 2.842
2nd 1.495
3rd 1.00
4th 0.731

final 3.274

so you can see the AWD/FWD 5spd's are geared much shorter and 2nd in the 4 spd is about the same as 3rd in the 5spd!!!!

and the manual just out of interest is
1st 3.333
2nd 2.105
3rd 1.407
4th 1.031
5th 0.804

final 3.736


also just incase your interested an exec 4wd is

119kg heavier than an exec auto
108kg heavier than an advance auto
93kg heavier than a sports auto
40kg heavier than a Ralliart!!!

sothe gearing in the 5spd auto is nearly the same as the manual?

also just incase your interested an exec 4wd is

119kg heavier than an exec auto
108kg heavier than an advance auto
93kg heavier than a sports auto
40kg heavier than a Ralliart!!!
Dunno where you're getting your facts from man, but a manual Ralliart is 1470kgs, auto is 1527. An AWD is just over 1600kgs. So it's about 135kgs heavier than a manual Ralliart.

Dunno where you're getting your facts from man, but a manual Ralliart is 1470kgs, auto is 1527. An AWD is just over 1600kgs. So it's about 135kgs heavier than a manual Ralliart.


Every article I've read says the ralliart manual weighs 1532kg

Dunno where you're getting your facts from man, but a manual Ralliart is 1470kgs, auto is 1527. An AWD is just over 1600kgs. So it's about 135kgs heavier than a manual Ralliart.


all above weights are for autos..... the info comes from Mitsubishi!!!

My AWD Sports weighs 1625kg with a full tank:cool:

Don't know where Disciple got the 1700+kg from. Mine is the heaviest of the AWDs and its
kerb mass is 1690kg and I can beat a KJ GTVi cos I don't get the loss of traction. Also
remember that the AWDs centre and rear diffs are LSD ones and can transfer torque to the
wheels that are not slipping so during a heavy take off, most of the torque goes to the rear
wheels. Also, my stock GTVi AWD is much faster than my worked 2nd gen Verada Xi.

say if the awd was converted to manual, and the twin turbo install was bolt on, what would the 0-100 figure look like?
No idea, but I'd definately be quicker if you left it auto. Not only can you stall up the converter, but there is no loss of boost in gear changes :badgrin:. Also if an aftermarket torque converter with a higher stall point is fitted in it's easy beat a manual due to the torque multiplication from the torque converter.

Having the torque converter also means that the driveline can handle more torque than a manual, due to much smaller shock loads.

Don't know where Disciple got the 1700+kg from.
If you actually read my post, you'll see I said "1700kgs? from memory" in a question form, meaning I wasn't sure originally. My post, about 5 posts ago, I said the AWD was just a shade over 1600kgs after I actually did look it up.

Helps if ya actually read the thread man.

im not so sure about the AWDs being quicker... ive toasted 3-4 AWDs in my TF FWD... and i know they were givin it to them...

but this could still be coincedence i was just adding

im not so sure about the AWDs being quicker... ive toasted 3-4 AWDs in my TF FWD... and i know they were givin it to them...

but this could still be coincedence i was just adding
AWD's are not quicker by any stretch. They have basically the same power and gearbox, but weigh over 100kgs more than a standard 3rd gen.

AWD's are not quicker by any stretch. They have basically the same power and gearbox, but weigh over 100kgs more than a standard 3rd gen.

Mines really slow off the mark. Its stock (still!), and once its moving, with few revs it can haul. Surely it can't just be the extra weight. Someone should drag a TJ FWD sports (5 spd) auto with two extra people in it vs. a exec AWD with only the drive. I bet the FWD will still spank the AWD

im sure that the AWDs would out handle my car (with the right driver) ive drivin one before... not hard... but not soft ;) and i noticed that they are alot more responsive around the twisties and give the driver alot more info about whats going on at the wheels... i loved it.

Mines really slow off the mark. Its stock (still!), and once its moving, with few revs it can haul. Surely it can't just be the extra weight. Someone should drag a TJ FWD sports (5 spd) auto with two extra people in it vs. a exec AWD with only the drive. I bet the FWD will still spank the AWD

dont forget the loss of power to drive all 4 wheels so you need like a top power awd like VRX vr like auto fwd th or something,

Well bassicaly both sorts of magna have pros and cons... the AWD is more stable and the FWD is cheaper and has a bit more gogo...

Each to his own... for me its the FWD im used to the TIS

well my awd is stock and goes plenty fast, and i have had a 3.5L fed before, the fwd feels like it's going faster.... cos of the tyre screech torque steer and suspension squat... the drive train losses arent that great, it's not loosing 50hp more or anything....

and as i have stated mine dips well under 8sec 0-100...

a further note, a smoked a 3.5L TH in my stock rodeo 3.2manual several times....!!! (mate was driving auto magna) no big deal you say.... ohh i had 2 motorcycles and full gear in the rodeo, magna was empty.

id put money on it that a stock awd sports would eat a stock ralliart on any twisty road wet or dry!!

Oh god here we go. They are both good cars with particularly different merits. I dont think a stock AWD would smoke a ralliart on twists, it may keep up though, the lsd in the ralliart is pretty effective with a decent driver.

beat one easy, same driver... ralliarts are rice!!! sorry to the ralliart owners, but they are.... mmal should have extended on the vrx, that was a really nice car!!!

Not that I can talk for stock AWD's, but my SC TW VRX AWD has the power that the AWD should have had initially, handles incredibly and I am pretty confident in saying that in a straight line it respectable and comparable to a stock ralliart, I don't know too many roads ( or places I drive too) which are straight 400 metre sprints all the time. It didn't do too bad against TZABOYs modded railliart.

Throw in the corners and the car comes into its own and I highly doubt that a FWD magna modded or not would handle as well or get through as quick. That is how good the AWD system is from the Evo 6. If you don't agree, have a read on the Sprintex website of the trials they did with their SC AWD Magna, and a professioanls comments after driving it.

like i said before... ive driven both... the AWD does out andle the front wheel drive cars... but on a track it comes down to the skill of the driver... the FWD ralliyart and AWD magna if both had edentical power outputs at the fly... right The rallyart would eat the AWD an any straight parts of road... but the AWD would probably gain on corners... its that simple. with the same brake setups on both they would brake the same... (The rallyart a bit better but probably not noticably) so its all a moot point... horses for courses.

id just like to point out that im not trying to discredit either car... im just trying to point out neither has a clear advantage over the other. but a stock rallyart Vs a stock AWD... i know what id put my money on...

a smoked a 3.5L TH in my stock rodeo 3.2manual several times....!!!

?????????????????? was the magna running on 3 cyls?

id put money on it that a stock awd sports would eat a stock ralliart on any twisty road wet or dry!!
Man, you're funny. :bowrofl: I'd gladly make you broke.

As an AWD sports owner I can tell you from experience

On a dry road Ralliart wins.... quite easily...

On a wet road... AWD wins quite easily... :D

...and its pouring down in Perth at the moment :)

i reckon you should look else where, espeically for performence as the magnas are gutless, and the awd is as gutless as the magna range can get, go look at a b4, rex, evo, for awd drive and better performence upgrades

i reckon you should look else where, espeically for performence as the magnas are gutless, and the awd is as gutless as the magna range can get, go look at a b4, rex, evo, for awd drive and better performence upgrades

check some of the times i woulnd't put a B4 with a wrx or evo
...............Wheels......Subaru
B4 auto.........7.8.........7.1

as for a magna being gutless i dont think it would be much slower than the auto B4 and wont have weird turbo on off boost they spoke about with the B4.

i would love to see how the AWD would ahve gone with a manual so you could have droped it with some revs, as most of use know in the FWD dropping the cluch with revs doesn't make you go very fast :rant:

B4 :gtfo: I managed to hit 80K in second gear and was 3 car lengths ahead of one that lined me up at the lights (it was a standard vehicle too) who wasn't managing to catch up all that well either.

By the time we hit 110 and backed off, I was still 1 car length ahead. He stopped to chat (nice guy actually) and asked what had been done... Nothin yet (apart from standard sports spec exhaust). His was standard as well. B4 Auto vs AWD Auto. Manual probably would be quicker.

Wheels did a test between the B4 and Magna AWD in the twisty stuff - Magna came out on top, and used quite a bit less fuel to boot. They are highly underrated, but do suffer from the weigh penalty.

Cheers
Heath Young

Wheels did a test between the B4 and Magna AWD in the twisty stuff - Magna came out on top, and used quite a bit less fuel to boot. They are highly underrated, but do suffer from the weigh penalty. Cheers Heath Young

I was going to say that but couldn't remember were i read it. and one thing i have found from AMC never say something unless you can back it becuase people want proof. as for B4 i think there a cool car but B4-0 Ralliart-2

granted magnas arnt power houses... but go jump in WRX and line up agains the RPW TT magna... what was it 11.6!!! (cant remember the figure) granted there are faster WRX's butthey ARNT FAMILY FWD SEDANS!!!!!

granted magnas arnt power houses... but go jump in WRX and line up agains the RPW TT magna... what was it 11.6!!! (cant remember the figure) granted there are faster WRX's butthey ARNT FAMILY FWD SEDANS!!!!!
11.9 actually. And I totally agree with you. WRX's are purpose built road going rally cars. An AWD Magna is a safe family car. But I tell ya what, strap a big mean turbo to an AWD and you'll have a beast.

the whole point to modding cars is taking something meek and turning wild... to be honest there hasnt been one WRX made that id be caught dead in... UGLY suckers. they drive realy well but.. did i mention they are ugly???

taking a family FWD(or AWD) boat and turning it in to an 11sec track car... that is modding man... and you can still get a family of 5in it for the weekend.

And then there's the fact that alot of us "big blokes" won't fit comfortably into a wrx or evo, plus don't get me started on their fuel consumption. I got told when i bought my magna that i was "stupid" for buying it, and that i should have bought a vl turbo and put money into it so i could do 10's :gtfo:. Yeh and use 20L/100km and be uncomfortable with no resale value and a crappy old interior. That person has since wrote off his vl turbo and has no money left because it wasn't insured and he put all his money into it :roll:.

wrx are ugly, the b4 look good, i thought they would of went harder, and evos aren't bad,
if your willing to spend to el dollars go with the awd magna and turbo it up

i'm consider this as an option for my next car ( which the project car)

I wanted an AWD sports... but the TF wass foundand it was cheap with 40k klms on the clock... BARGIN... couldnt pass it up. if i get another car in the near futur it will either be a GTO(of the mitsu variety) or an AWD sports for turbo :D

but i wouldnt mind an FTO GPX either. ;)

Yep - this is a good justification for the SC - I cannot get an AWD that can comfortably fit my tall fat @ss in it, along with tools, bags of cement, 3m2 of clay pavers (don't ask), a baby seat in the capsule (not seat) position. Try doing all that with a WRX.

WRX is also wanker and cop bait...

beat one easy, same driver... ralliarts are rice!!! sorry to the ralliart owners, but they are.... mmal should have extended on the vrx, that was a really nice car!!!

:bowrofl: koni shocks, bigger brakes, lsd, more power. all useless rice.. :confused:

mate AWD's are fantastic for handling.. and yeh AWD's are faster in the wet..

but in the dry, the LSD in the ralliart works wonders.. you'd probably give a ralliart a good run through some nice bends but certaintly wouldnt beat it.. and as for a straight road... cya later mate. even if you supercharged your car you'd still only just keep up in a straight line..

i agree the ralliart body kit is rice but theres more to the ralliart than the kit... id have to say the LSD is probably the most impressive part of the car for me...

well done fitting 20s on your AWD by the way...

:stoopid:. on a dry road it just wouldn't happen.

the LSD is gold. the car pulls out of corners so well with it. on a dry road the ralliart doesn't have enough power to need to be AWD, so with awd having less power. i can't see it keeping up. any straight the AWD will be slower, and dry wont be any quicker

Well id just about kill for a ralliart... but id still cimmit lesser crimes foran AWD :D

:bowrofl: koni shocks, bigger brakes, lsd, more power. all useless rice.. :confused:



no you cant see that stuff..... the interior and the kit thats all....

well maybe the konis are rice too ;)


i have a recipe for the perfect car....... if you could only have 1 car that does it all


must be

AWD
V8
Turbo
a wagon, but
not a porsche

not many options.... but...

the winner is Audi RS6

but i cant afford one, but in a year i'll be able to afford boosting the AWD, i'd say with a modded s/c kit and nos a one off 1/4 in the high 12's wouldnt be out of reach, with mid-high 13's a reliable possibility

Audi... pffft. Na just j/k each to his own.

bust boost it and love it as a street weapon :D

I'll take your $50 then! While it wont be far off, it wont crack the 15's dead stock. The AWD is slower than the 2wd variant (which i happen to have) and there's no way the awd would get a 15.xx. My car wouldn't even crack the 15's stock. Exhaust upgrade as well as some intake mods may see a 15 second awd.


sorry to bring up an old thread........


but where is my $50???????????????????

i ran sub 16's in the awd with the 20's and full tank of juice.... and it's stock..

i have 9 time slips here under 16 sec... lol

Oh really? I was reading someone else saying in another thread that first gear was very tall, and so off the line accelleration is quite sluggish. My bad then.
The drama is that the car will ofter take off at part throttle in 2nd gear instead of 1st. It will pick 5th around 50-55km.

How the f did andrewd get a 7.1 in his awd. B.s! I'm hovering in the 7.8-8.1 range with my manifold, flowed TB, pod filter, high flow cat, 2.5" system, dual 2" muffs (with custom extractors and 6pack throttle body bank to come). I've got massive mid range and top end - I chirp from 1st to 2nd on dry road but my moby phone's counter reckons that 7.8 is as good as it gets - mind you it changes 3rd -4th at 95km-ish and that loses a 0.1 or so of a second. PIA that gearchange.

The drama is that the car will ofter take off at part throttle in 2nd gear instead of 1st. It will pick 5th around 50-55km.

That is why I use the tippy. Always start from 1st and for normal cruising, shift to 5th at
40km/hr

How the f did andrewd get a 7.1 in his awd. B.s! I'm hovering in the 7.8-8.1 range with my manifold, flowed TB, pod filter, high flow cat, 2.5" system, dual 2" muffs (with custom extractors and 6pack throttle body bank to come). I've got massive mid range and top end - I chirp from 1st to 2nd on dry road but my moby phone's counter reckons that 7.8 is as good as it gets - mind you it changes 3rd -4th at 95km-ish and that loses a 0.1 or so of a second. PIA that gearchange.

Its called traction. I love it when you hit the accelerator, she just squats and goes like a
kid that hasn't been toilet trained and the feeling you get when you go around a bend,
chucking it down a gear and feel the rear coming out (not sliding, but giving it some
oversteer).

Another thing I love about the AWDs is this: Here in Adelaide, the intersection of Port Rd,
West Tce and North Tce is always wet at night time due to poorly aimed sprinklers. I've
done the right bender from West Tce to North Tce on the rightmost right turn lane at
50 km/hr with out loosing traction.

The drama is that the car will ofter take off at part throttle in 2nd gear instead of 1st. It will pick 5th around 50-55km.

How the f did andrewd get a 7.1 in his awd. B.s! I'm hovering in the 7.8-8.1 range with my manifold, flowed TB, pod filter, high flow cat, 2.5" system, dual 2" muffs (with custom extractors and 6pack throttle body bank to come). I've got massive mid range and top end - I chirp from 1st to 2nd on dry road but my moby phone's counter reckons that 7.8 is as good as it gets - mind you it changes 3rd -4th at 95km-ish and that loses a 0.1 or so of a second. PIA that gearchange.


i have a vid and broke it down frame by frame and it was 7.23 0-100km/h half tank juice and about 5deg freezing cold....

what car u got man fwd?

ohh yeah my mods are a clogged k&n its filthy... and an $80 muffler other than that its all stock.... even the factory rear plugs and they are 105k old lol

ohh did i mention 15.9's i get off to a good start but you notice the extra losses in the top end of the 1/4mile... pffftttt.... factory quoted 16.4's and higher.... lies... it's all lies...





just out of interest too the sprintex car that ran a 15.1 their awd, was full tank gas... std launch and 35degree day and heavier TL model.... i read the original wheels test on it... it got off to a real slow start on the 1/4 for some reason.... then picked up heaps in the top end, but too late then..


ps... something must be wrong with ur trippy.... reset it by d/c the batt terminal for 5 sec.... guide is on here somewhere

mine always takes off in 1st from a complete stop even when barley using the throttle... and changes to 5th at no less than 50kmh..


and a stock auto shouldnt chirp.. maybe the solenids in the trans are :nuts: causing the chirp.. thats what happend in my falcon the S5 solenoid was buggered of something giving me 1-2 chirpies on full throttle... lol

How the f did andrewd get a 7.1 in his awd.
I think he was going down a hill. With a tail wind. I mean that's quoting a better 0-100 time than an auto Ralliart which is 150kgs lighter and has 30odd kws more and no less traction off the line (plant auto off the line it won't wheel spin)

ps... something must be wrong with ur trippy.... reset it by d/c the batt terminal for 5 sec.... guide is on here somewhere

mine always takes off in 1st from a complete stop even when barley using the throttle... and changes to 5th at no less than 50kmh..


and a stock auto shouldnt chirp.. maybe the solenids in the trans are :nuts: causing the chirp.. thats what happend in my falcon the S5 solenoid was buggered of something giving me 1-2 chirpies on full throttle... lol

Interesting... This seems to indicate a problem with the closed throttle switch on the TPS.

Mine does it as well and it ****s me off. But I know I have TPS issues, I'll change it one day :P

Re. Chirps - sounds like a shift kit has been fitted/modified valve bodies, as the AWD is designed to drop power of the engine on changes by retarding the ignition timing - to avoid drivetrain damage. Never seen any 3rd gen auto do this before - regardless of power/RPM.

Cheers
Heath Young

I think he was going down a hill. With a tail wind. I mean that's quoting a better 0-100 time than an auto Ralliart which is 150kgs lighter and has 30odd kws more and no less traction off the line (plant auto off the line it won't wheel spin)

it was a 7.23 on the video... not 7.1 (7.1 was timed via stop watch, and obviously not accurate)

just one thing re that....

in the awd i can stall up 2400rpm then let it go and it jumps off the line....

thats where the advantage is...

the awds drive much differently to the fwd's i used to drive fwd 3.5L 4spd auto for a bit and it was totaly stock.... and when i stood on the accelerator it would screech off the line.... if i stalled it up it would get off to a smoking start :badgrin:

the difference is though the fwd the front lifts the rear squats big time, and after driving the awd you can feel that it pulls from the front, where as in the awd... the suspension dosent squat/lift as much and just moves forward...


and yes i know my car isnt fast, my old getz was just as fast to 80 as the awd... but there is no cheating the video... and it wasnt down hill.... but that gives me an idea lol....

andrewd:
mate, no offence, but some of what you are saying is utter crap. You aren't impressing anyone, you're just making a fool of yourself.

Even with a Sprintex s/c kit, the awd magna can't break into the 14's. I don't see how a stock awd magna could get anywhere near the low 7's for 0-100km/hr. It's auto, its carrying extra weight, and is suffering from more drivetrain loss. Yes it may have more traction off the line, but it doesn't have the power to make use of it to properly.

Also the idea that a AWD will beat a ralliart, or even a standard manual (and possibly auto too) fwd magna in the twisties is crap. Because it's carrrying extra weight, it will be carrying less corner speed than a fwd magna. Yes it does have better power-down because of the AWD, but once again, it doesn't have enough power to ram home that advantage, especially behind an auto that's probably going to be in the wrong gear. It does have better brakes (I should know, I have them in my fwd Tj sports), but that isn't going to be enough of an advantage, especially since those brakes have to haul up the extra weight of the awd.

andrewd:
mate, no offence, but some of what you are saying is utter crap. You aren't impressing anyone, you're just making a fool of yourself.

Even with a Sprintex s/c kit, the awd magna can't break into the 14's. I don't see how a stock awd magna could get anywhere near the low 7's for 0-100km/hr. It's auto, its carrying extra weight, and is suffering from more drivetrain loss. Yes it may have more traction off the line, but it doesn't have the power to make use of it to properly.

Also the idea that a AWD will beat a ralliart, or even a standard manual (and possibly auto too) fwd magna in the twisties is crap. Because it's carrrying extra weight, it will be carrying less corner speed than a fwd magna. Yes it does have better power-down because of the AWD, but once again, it doesn't have enough power to ram home that advantage, especially behind an auto that's probably going to be in the wrong gear. It does have better brakes (I should know, I have them in my fwd Tj sports), but that isn't going to be enough of an advantage, especially since those brakes have to haul up the extra weight of the awd.


heres your 2cents now go away...

umm tell me, when did you drive my car??? find the video and take a look it's on here...

and yeah... 14's will be done!! i got told there is no way an awd will run this that blah blah.... but it has.. 15.9 stock.... yes that's a slow time i agree there, but it's 0.5 sec faster than anyone thought possible..

if i dont crack atleast a 14.9 sprintexed, you can say all you like

and on the brakes... there isnt that much weight equiv to 1 passanger, and i can use the advantage of all the wheels when engine braking... in regards to the auto... when shifted manually it's in the gear you choose... and while sometimes a tad slow to respond it's still faster than a manual change...

give the awd and weight thing a rest.... in a recent car mag the maz 6 mps was quite a bit quicker around a track than the maz 3 mps, it's awd and much heavier...

heres your 2cents now go away...

umm tell me, when did you drive my car??? find the video and take a look it's on here...

and yeah... 14's will be done!! i got told there is no way an awd will run this that blah blah.... but it has.. 15.9 stock.... yes that's a slow time i agree there, but it's 0.5 sec faster than anyone thought possible..

if i dont crack atleast a 14.9 sprintexed, you can say all you like

and on the brakes... there isnt that much weight equiv to 1 passanger, and i can use the advantage of all the wheels when engine braking... in regards to the auto... when shifted manually it's in the gear you choose... and while sometimes a tad slow to respond it's still faster than a manual change...

give the awd and weight thing a rest.... in a recent car mag the maz 6 mps was quite a bit quicker around a track than the maz 3 mps, it's awd and much heavier...

It's all very well to speculate on a 14.9, BEFORE you have the sprintex kit...how bout wait till you have it installed, then go try to prove me wrong, if your bent on doing so. And removing your spare, back seat and half your interior trim doesn't count. Those obese rims in your sig aren't gonna do you any favours in acceleration times either.

I havn't come across the video, but Im guessing it was done on the road, not a dragstrip, meaning you could and probably were going down a bit of a hill to get those numbers. There is no way in hell your stock awd is gonna be nearly a second faster than EZboys, with a reasonble amount of mods.

Four wheeled engine braking, woop-dee-doo. I hope you realise 4-wheeled engine braking is marginal over front-wheel engine braking under hard braking. And don't kid yourself, the AWD is over 135 kg heavier than a ralliart, and probably close to 200kg heavier than a sports/vrx/exec. Thats a hell of alot of more than one passenger worth of weight.

Don't make me laugh about the gear shifting, a good manual driver will shift faster than the magna auto boxes (I've ridden and driven a few). Also the tiptronic is horribly laggy to respond, that second or so in the wrong gear will cost you lots of progress.

Don't use the mazda 3 and 6 MPS in the fwd vs awd debate, they are COMPLETELY different cars, and have absolutely nothing to do with comparing an awd magna to a fwd one. Plus they both have a bucketload more power than a standard awd/fwd magna, and the 6 MPS can probably actually make use of its AWD grip with its power.

I'm not here to bash awd magnas, but you really shouldn't be posting rubbish you can't back up properly. Just because you own one, doesn't mean they are capable of things they clearnly aren't.

And removing your spare, back seat and half your interior trim doesn't count. Those obese rims in your sig aren't gonna do you any favours in acceleration times either.

probably were going down a bit of a hill to get those numbers.

Four wheeled engine braking, woop-dee-doo. I hope you realise engine braking is marginal under hard braking. And don't kid yourself, the AWD is over 135 kg heavier than a ralliart, and probably close to 200kg heavier than a sports/vrx/exec. Thats a hell of alot of more than one passenger worth of weight.

Don't make me laugh about the gear shifting, a good manual driver will shift faster than the magna auto boxes (I've ridden and driven a few). Also the tiptronic is horribly laggy to respond, that second or so in the wrong gear will cost you lots of progress.

Don't use the mazda 3 and 6 MPS in the fwd vs awd debate, they are COMPLETELY different cars, and have absolutely nothing to do with comparing an awd magna to a fwd one. Plus they both have a bucketload more power than a standard awd/fwd magna, and the 6 MPS can probably actually make use of its AWD grip with its power.

I'm not here to bash awd magnas, but you really shouldn't be posting rubbish you can't back up properly. Just because you own one, doesn't mean they are capable of things they clearnly aren't.

dude your a complete wanker...

an auto ralliart weighs 40kg less than an awd which weighs 1604kg

so you were at heathcote that day?? i didnt see you there, yeah i had my spare tyre out... 20kgs maybe, but had a full tank juice, if i'd run it at 1/3 theres 50kg there... no interior etc was removed...

down hill :bowrofl: dude ur a hater... lol... ive timed a 6.4 0-100 in drive down a hill... the vid ... well so some searching in the genaral section... the explination is there...

the maz comparison is fair... it puts the same engine output in fwd vs much heavier awd format to the test... its a comparison in general and valid..
agreed that the mps can make better use of its power, but when were you last driving an awd on the limit?


sorry man you must be the best manual driver there is... by the time you have pressed the clutch in the gears of an auto have already changed... or maybe ur magna has a dsg :bowrofl:

Geez you talk some crap, andrewd. Sorry to brake it to you champ, but an auto Ralliart Magna weighs in at 1505kgs and the manual version 1470kgs. Your AWD, depending on what year model it is, is anywhere from 1604kgs to 1650kgs, but those stupid rims will make it closer to 1700kgs. That to me looks like from 134kgs-180kgs between your AWD and a manual Ralliart, and 99kgs-145kgs between your AWD and an auto Ralliart, plus then the weight of your stupid rims, forgetting about any power differences, and you're trying to claim a 0-100 time that is equal to an auto Ralliart, and also trying to claim a better 0-100 time than EZBoy's AWD which has extensive mods is just rediculous. So, either you have a FREAK of an AWD, or you're just talking crap.

dude your a complete wanker...

an auto ralliart weighs 40kg less than an awd which weighs 1604kg

so you were at heathcote that day?? i didnt see you there, yeah i had my spare tyre out... 20kgs maybe, but had a full tank juice, if i'd run it at 1/3 theres 50kg there... no interior etc was removed...

down hill :bowrofl: dude ur a hater... lol... ive timed a 6.4 0-100 in drive down a hill... the vid ... well so some searching in the genaral section... the explination is there...

the maz comparison is fair... it puts the same engine output in fwd vs much heavier awd format to the test... its a comparison in general and valid..
agreed that the mps can make better use of its power, but when were you last driving an awd on the limit?


sorry man you must be the best manual driver there is... by the time you have pressed the clutch in the gears of an auto have already changed... or maybe ur magna has a dsg :bowrofl:

yep, clearly I'm the wanker.

I really don't know where you get your kerb weight numbers from.

I'm not a hater, I just don't like it when fanboys talk up a particular car unecessarily, to justify their own purchase, or make their e-penis larger, or whatever. Statements like "it will beat a ralliart in the twisties" are not constructive when anyone with half a motoring brain can figure out that's very unlikely.

the maz comparison is really NOT valid, they are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CARS, and have nothing in common except for the engine. And neither of them have anything whatsoever to do with the magna. That kind of comparison is like saying a FWD Integra Type-R is faster around a track than a RWD commo, therefore FWD is better than RWD. It has no releveance whatsoever.

Clearly you havn't seen what a good manual driver can do with a car. including how quickly gears can be shifted. The autos slurrrr into the next gear, and take there sweet time doing it.

As a matter of fact I did a rallying course (with highly qualified instructor) in a 200awkw wrx sti on a private track a while ago, and have some degree of motorsport experience/knowledge, so I think I might have some idea of driving an awd on the limit.

The fact is you can't go making outrageous claims without any evidence, and then turn atound and have a cry when someone pulls you up on it.

The tiptronics on the AWDs share very little of the foibles described with the other (2wd) tiptronics. I have *never* had a delay on either an upchange or downchange - the 4 speed is gawdawful for it, and the 5 speed has it, but not as badly.

There are some freaky AWDs out there. I drove one that absolutely shat all over my old modified exec (the awd was completely standard) - absolute ball tearer. Throttle response was scarey, you just about ran up the bum of every car in front of you (although this may have been a fault). Nailed it in the wet from a standing start, and the standard tyres just let go like they do on a 2wd. They weren't bald either... Nail it around a corner in the dry, and they let go again.

I spent an hour trying to find out what was up with it, but everything was standard - even down to the ECU. Not even a sports exhaust. I didn't buy it because it had been treated like absolute ****, with panel damage everywhere.

Not saying that this is the case with andrew's, but they definitly are not all created equal.

Cheers
Heath Young

dude i apologise for being rude but it really pisses me off....

that is what my car is can do, i really dont care if ppl dont believe me, there are others who have seen it go thats it..... look on the 2nd page the model weights are listed... all taken from the vehicles handbook...

and as heathyoug has said.. not all cars are created equal

i brought the exact same car, Identical except colour as my best mate.. i got mine the day before him... both brand new... anyway mine would easily pull ahead in a drag, even when swapping cars, to allow for the driver mine would still pull ahead easily... as if it had about 15kw more.... but on our dirtbikes it was the opposite, both the same model and stock, his had a 10km/h higher top speed :( damn him..

also the TL series was heavier than the TJ, not by much, but that might offset a few of those kw....

in the vic heathcote thread there is someone who has modded their awd exhaust cai etc... and it still hasnt cracked a 16.. like i said i ran a 15.9 several times as you see it in the pics...

the thing about the run is it's very quick over the first half of the 1/4 mile but is very slow up top.. i was stalling to 2400rpm on take off and rarley getting beaten in the first 100m then the fat **** awd dosent pull as hard...

The tiptronics on the AWDs share very little of the foibles described with the other (2wd) tiptronics. I have *never* had a delay on either an upchange or downchange - the 4 speed is gawdawful for it, and the 5 speed has it, but not as badly.

There are some freaky AWDs out there. I drove one that absolutely shat all over my old modified exec (the awd was completely standard) - absolute ball tearer. Throttle response was scarey, you just about ran up the bum of every car in front of you (although this may have been a fault). Nailed it in the wet from a standing start, and the standard tyres just let go like they do on a 2wd. They weren't bald either... Nail it around a corner in the dry, and they let go again.

I spent an hour trying to find out what was up with it, but everything was standard - even down to the ECU. Not even a sports exhaust. I didn't buy it because it had been treated like absolute ****, with panel damage everywhere.

Not saying that this is the case with andrew's, but they definitly are not all created equal.

Cheers
Heath Young

Yep, the AWD auto boxes are from the EVO VI GTAs to handle the extra torque load of
AWDs.

I've test driven an auto Ralliart before purchasing my current car and I can tell you
that there ain't that much difference and mine weighs in at 1700kgs. There was a thread
on here a while ago that said that not all engines are made the same. The quoted power
that Mitsu uses is the lowest power tested from a sample. Hence a 180kw ralliart may
have a 180kw engine or a slightly more powerfull one and a 163kw vrx engine, again may
have a slightly more powerfull one.

The only way to find out is to put the cars in question on the same dyno on the same day.
Amen.

and as heathyoug has said.. not all cars are created equal



True there is a small margin of error with each car, e.g one ralliart may make say 178kw, another one may make 182kw. But we're talking almost neglible differences, not the kind that can produce a "freak" awd that magically obliterates cars it normally can't. The idea that Mitsu could accidentally make a "freak" car that produces say 20kw more than it should is lidicrous.

A stock awd magna simply doesn't have the power atw/weight ratio to set the kind of times an auto ralliart does, no amount of wishful thinking is going to change the laws of physics. If you really believe your own recorded time, maybe investigate why you got such an optimistic time, any number of factors could have skewed the results in your favour. e.g maybe your speedo was out, whatever timing method you used wasn't accurate, the road wasn't flat, etc etc. I'm sure if you had looked hard enough, you could have discredited your own figure, rather than accepting an obviously wrong figure and conveniently not finding out how you got it.

The fact is, the extra weight of the AWD does make a difference, a huge one. Drive almost any car with a couple of extra passengers, and the difference in acceleration, handleing and braking is very noticeable. If you can't notice any difference, then you just't aren't very in-tune with how your car drives.

Of course there are other factors. A new car car that hasn't done many ks will have a very "tight" engine, and will be noticeably slower. And a car that hasn't been serviced properly, or has seomthing faulty/brocken will be slower than a good example of the same car.


There are some freaky AWDs out there. I drove one that absolutely shat all over my old modified exec (the awd was completely standard) - absolute ball tearer. Throttle response was scarey, you just about ran up the bum of every car in front of you (although this may have been a fault). Nailed it in the wet from a standing start, and the standard tyres just let go like they do on a 2wd. They weren't bald either... Nail it around a corner in the dry, and they let go again.


Those characteristics don't prove the awd was some kind of special "freak" awd, it just suggests someting wasn't right with it.

for eg, the the "scary throttle response" may have been due to something like an overtightened throttle cable, or maybe your car had a doughy feeling throttle for some reason at the time, so in comparison this "freak awd" felt much more responsive. If you nearly were nearly runing up the bum of other cars then clearly you can't drive properly, or you weren't use to the different throttle response. Doesn't matter how much power a car has, there's something called throttle control to keep you from hitting peolpe in front. Alsi remember throttle response isn't directly related to outright power. That's why people love flowed TB's, they give the illusion of extra power due to sharper throttle response, when in fact there is no increase in power at all.

as for why it was breaking traction easily, it could have been any number of things. Maybe the tyres were crappy yum-cha tyres, maybe there was something wrong with the suspension, maybe there was something wrong with the centre diff, resulting it too muc power going to one end, etc etc. The list goes on. A car that breaks traction easier doesn't necessarily mean it has more power, it can mean it just has something wrong with it thats causing it to have less traction.


Lets also not forget that alot of how a car feels is in our mind, often we noticed things we WANTO notice, or something we perceive tricks us into noticing something thay isn't there. If you've just spent $120 on a k&n filter, chances are you will THINK your car goes faster, cos of the extra intake noise and the fact you've spent money on it. In reality it probablt isn't going any faster, and probably slower in the low revs, which in contrast may make the top end feel faster.

It's very easy to be biased about a type of car you happen to own, and see things that really aren't there, people do it all the time, including myself from time to time. People can make quite outrageous claims about a certain car, and get away with it because in there mind they have convinced themselves of certain things just aren't there. Also alot of people are blissfully ignorant of what else that's out there, so they find it easy to focus on how great there car is, and making false assumptions about other cars is easy to jusify, as they simply don't have the knowledge experience to make real-world comparisons.

There's a line between being enthusiastic/positive about your car, and taking it too far and crossing the line where you start talking ****. Im sorry andrewd, but you have obviously crosses that line, so it's no surprise you are being pulled up on it. It's very easy to remain in denial and believe your own crap, but maybe you should read back what you've said carefully, stand back a bit and think about how unreaslistic and laughable some of your claims were. Those rims don't do you any favours, as to me they are agod indication of your personality when it comes to cars (read: wanker).

:nuts:

yeah im a wanker...

i wont mention that i have g teched it..... cos you will proably go on about how inaccurate they are... and how my rims this rims that... :bowrofl:

you obviously have no idea...i have commented in other posts how my wheels effect economy acceeration and handeling.

you seem to be the main person with a problem... ohh and stick the pannel back on that covers the gap between the grill and radiator... "chances are you will THINK your car goes faster, cos of the extra intake noise"

actualy with that useless mod it's 0.1 of a second slower on the 1/4 mile...(i made runs with and without)

im not biased about the awd, just stating the facts, i tell people it slow uses a lot of fuel and is boring as you are to drive...

now should we mention my old valiants, then im deadset biased...

so what can you tell me about my rims and my personality when it comes to cars?

i'll bet that you couldnt be further from the truth..

here is a pic for you to look at...

im glad you dont like it...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/andrewduaso/Image004-4.jpg

and this one is a personal fav of mine lol

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/andrewduaso/Image020.jpg

Hey y'all !

Don't knock the valiants!!! :belt:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/700/mvc141***1.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mvc141***1.jpg)

Mmmm... Valiant...

Seriously - this thread is going in circles. Scan in the slip Andrewd, that'll sort it out. I'm jealous of fast AWD's, good on you for getting a freak one. Mine isn't :cry:

Guys, does it really matter how fast someone says their car can go even if it may be right or wrong? Sheesh..

Hey y'all !

Don't knock the valiants!!! :belt:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/700/mvc141***1.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mvc141***1.jpg)

no need to scan the slip, there were other magna types there..

Mmmm... Valiant...

Seriously - this thread is going in circles. Scan in the slip Andrewd, that'll sort it out. I'm jealous of fast AWD's, good on you for getting a freak one. Mine isn't :cry:

im not knocking valiants... best cars ever!!

heres my old one, proably built by the same guy who built my magna lol

mmmmm 318 4bbl dual pipes, real V8 sound... nice slow cruiser... was a rocket with the hemi 6 before that died


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/andrewduaso/SANY0101.jpg

andrewd:

I stick by what I said, but there probably isn't any point in argueing anymore. Although I will say g-techs ARE inacurate, and I hate those rims, and generally associate a certain person with them. But then again, I hate anything just about any rim that isn't a simple spoked design geared towards strength and lightweightness. Oh and I especially hate chrome of any sort :rocket:

an awd magna seems an odd choice of car for an old school valiant fan, care to explain yourself? at least I agree with your tastes on those :)

im a massive fan of old valiants, ive had a few...

all totaly stock and some what restored.. with some minor mods here and there... i've had to get rid of them due to previous girlfriends, space etc...

i was just about to buy another but decided on the supecharger, im sticking to one car for now..

but i will get another valiant hopefully in the next year or two...


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/andrewduaso/valiant.jpg

while this ap5 sedan was no where near as good as the VF hardtop, it was a much better car to drive slant 6 stock push button auto, factory interior (tan) in immaculate condition :D

that other silver thing is what happens when ur girlfriend has a say :rant:

The awd's are not as quick on the straights compared to some of its brethren. fact. however when it comes to corners the awd is freaky for the size and weight of the car. I have out-cornered an RZ supra with a very competant driver plus half a dozen other cars. (most with double the power of my car) I have driven both auto and manual ralliarts and i know the awd can take a corner that would leave a r/art in a ditch (as sexy as they are). I like all magna's but people need to realise the strengths and weakness's of there cars and take advantage of them rather bagging the areas where other cars arnt as strong.

The awd's are not as quick on the straights compared to some of its brethren. fact. however when it comes to corners the awd is freaky for the size and weight of the car. I have out-cornered an RZ supra with a very competant driver plus half a dozen other cars. (most with double the power of my car) I have driven both auto and manual ralliarts and i know the awd can take a corner that would leave a r/art in a ditch (as sexy as they are). I like all magna's but people need to realise the strengths and weakness's of there cars and take advantage of them rather bagging the areas where other cars arnt as strong.
Geez some people on here talk some crap. That is bologny champ. On one of the MM06 cruises from Brisbane to Sunshine Coast in the hill climb sections I was leaving everyone for dead in my car and it has stock Ralliart suspension. The only one who did well was Rav (who was infront of me) and he has coilovers, but most of the time I was right on his bum waiting for him to speed up. The AWD would have a slight advantage with grip, but loses all that advantage because it's heavy and slow.

I'll put on an AMC newb hat for a minute. Hey my girlfriends 1.5L 99 lancer coupe just beat an EVO in a straight line drag and then smashed it up a twisty mountain. The EVO driver was VERY good and I could tell he was REALLY trying too!

Speed is one thing, but cornering? An AWD has it all over a ralliart.

I don't believe this. Arguing over the performance of a fwd Magna vs an AWD Magna :nuts: not really a pretty sight, it's a 6 cylinder FAMILY car.

No matter which out performs each other better, there are better performance cars on the market - and even better family cars that perform better.

As soon as everyone accepts this we can get over all the chest beating and inferiority complexes and get back to just appreciating the Magna for what it is - a bloody decent 6 cylinder family car.

I'm suprised that this thread hasn't been locked yet...

Obviously, the Ralliart is going to be faster in a straight line, it has more power and is lighter - the AWD has handling in spades, wet and dry.

Not having to lift off the throttle in any part of the corner has its advantages :)

Throw an SC into the mix (on the AWD) in the twisties, combined with the extra torque low down it brings, and grip - and you have a weapon. It may not be WRX/EVO quick (although you do have to keep turbos 'on the boil' so to speak), but it will show most cars a clean pair of heels.

Horses for courses... This has been discussed many times in the past, the Ralliart and the AWD are two very different cars, with two different objectives. One is straight line acceleration, the other is freakishly good handling. Both would be nice in the one car though...

I had a go of a ralliart in some of my favourite roads when tossing up between the AWD and ralliart. There is no way in hell I was game to push the ralliart as hard as I did the AWD - I almost lost it (I drove the AWD first) around a corner I had no trouble with in the AWD. It was a sharp 90 degree turn, marked at 45Kph. Took it in the AWD at 80Kph (didn't slow down at all - no problems) - Ralliart, well, tried it, it just felt far too nervous and I had to back down to about 65Kph. The corner is poorly banked, so its a test for just about any car...

Mind you, on the straights, the pickup of the Ralliart was awesome...

Cheers
Heath Young

I'm suprised that this thread hasn't been locked yet...

Obviously, the Ralliart is going to be faster in a straight line, it has more power and is lighter - the AWD has handling in spades, wet and dry.

Not having to lift off the throttle in any part of the corner has its advantages :)

Throw an SC into the mix (on the AWD) in the twisties, combined with the extra torque low down it brings, and grip - and you have a weapon. It may not be WRX/EVO quick (although you do have to keep turbos 'on the boil' so to speak), but it will show most cars a clean pair of heels.

Horses for courses... This has been discussed many times in the past, the Ralliart and the AWD are two very different cars, with two different objectives. One is straight line acceleration, the other is freakishly good handling. Both would be nice in the one car though...

I had a go of a ralliart in some of my favourite roads when tossing up between the AWD and ralliart. There is no way in hell I was game to push the ralliart as hard as I did the AWD - I almost lost it (I drove the AWD first) around a corner I had no trouble with in the AWD. It was a sharp 90 degree turn, marked at 45Kph. Took it in the AWD at 80Kph (didn't slow down at all - no problems) - Ralliart, well, tried it, it just felt far too nervous and I had to back down to about 65Kph. The corner is poorly banked, so its a test for just about any car...

Mind you, on the straights, the pickup of the Ralliart was awesome...

Cheers
Heath Young

hey heath young,
I just don't see why the awd magna has "freakishly good handling"..AFAIK is understeers just as much as a regular magna on turn in , likely more due to the extra weight. AWD drivetrain isn't going to be any help when there's no drive going through the wheels. On corner exits the AWDness would reduce understeer alot, but if a FWD is understeering too much on corner exit then it means you are feeding in the power too early/quickly. I'm sure if you push too hard out of a corner the awd magna will understeer, just like any other awd car (except maybe the recent ones with tricky diffs).

Your experience with the Ralliart doesn't prove the awd is quicker in the bends, it just possibly proves you weren't comfortable pushing a fwd car to the limit. That's awd's main advantage, it makes the car much easier to drive hard, so the average joe will probably be quicker in an awd because they feel much more comfortble pushing it, as it essentially drives itself to some extent.

You're right, in an awd car without a great deal of power, you can pretty much just mash the throttle mid corner and get away with it, removing any need for proper throtte control. Do that in a rwd/fwd, and you'll fly off the road or end up facing the wrong direction if you are really careless.

However, assuming the drivers in both cars have enough skill to push each car to the absolute limit, I'm pretty sure you'll find a ralliart (and even a manual vrx/sports) will be quicker, it just isn't as graceful doing it.

I'm not even interested in which is faster, I couldn't care less. However I don't like it when people make claims that aren't likely to be true, I feel I should pull them up on it, and see if they can explain their reasoning behind them. Anyone with a decent amount of knowledge/experience of cars and some kind of motorsport interest/experience can tell it's very unlikely an awd woud be faster in the dry, even in the twisties.

The awd does have some advantages, the main one being itseasier to drive closer to the limit than a FWD, for the average joe. However, the drawbacks of the awd magna in terms of straight-line speed, weight and automatic tranny really heavily outweigh its advantages over fwd.

Cheers.

hey heath young,
I just don't see why the awd magna has "freakishly good handling"..AFAIK is understeers just as much as a regular magna on turn in , likely more due to the extra weight. AWD drivetrain isn't going to be any help when there's no drive going through the wheels. On corner exits the AWDness would reduce understeer alot, but if a FWD is understeering too much on corner exit then it means you are feeding in the power too early/quickly. I'm sure if you push too hard out of a corner the awd magna will understeer, just like any other awd car (except maybe the recent ones with tricky diffs).

Your experience with the Ralliart doesn't prove the awd is quicker in the bends, it just possibly proves you weren't comfortable pushing a fwd car to the limit. That's awd's main advantage, it makes the car much easier to drive hard, so the average joe will probably be quicker in an awd because they feel much more comfortble pushing it, as it essentially drives itself to some extent.

You're right, in an awd car without a great deal of power, you can pretty much just mash the throttle mid corner and get away with it, removing any need for proper throtte control. Do that in a rwd/fwd, and you'll fly off the road or end up facing the wrong direction if you are really careless.

However, assuming the drivers in both cars have enough skill to push each car to the absolute limit, I'm pretty sure you'll find a ralliart (and even a manual vrx/sports) will be quicker, it just isn't as graceful doing it.

I'm not even interested in which is faster, I couldn't care less. However I don't like it when people make claims that aren't likely to be true, I feel I should pull them up on it, and see if they can explain their reasoning behind them. Anyone with a decent amount of knowledge/experience of cars and some kind of motorsport interest/experience can tell it's very unlikely an awd woud be faster in the dry, even in the twisties.

The awd does have some advantages, the main one being itseasier to drive closer to the limit than a FWD, for the average joe. However, the drawbacks of the awd magna in terms of straight-line speed, weight and automatic tranny really heavily outweigh its advantages over fwd.

Cheers.

The AWD Magna/Verada may not have electronic controlled diffs but they are the same
diffs as used in the EVO VI and EVO VI RS. The rear diff is a TORSEN diff and the centre
one is a multi-plate clutch type. Only the front diff is an open diff. And as such, torque
can be transfered to where its needed, albeit mechanically. And believe me when
I say it only underteers if you keep it in a too high gear approaching a corner. I've done
gone through many corners without a hint of understeer, infact in oversteers around
corners. My new car's approach and exit speeds are way higher than my old KS with
lowered kings and GT gas shockers and wider tyres. You need to know how to drive an
AWD and especially not to be affraid to chuck it down a gear or so and plant the pedal to
accelerate out of a corner instead of backing off and understeering.

Chisolm, leave us to our opinions. Truthfully have you even driven an AWD? Especially a modified one? We could have bought ralliarts or sports/vrx's but chose to buy the AWD for whatever reason. Obviously this was because we thought it was the better package. I dont know why you are compelled to pull people up on claims that you yourself have no better knowledge of. Having had a modified TE in the past I can assure you that the AWD handles far better in all occasions with a minimum of 10-15km/h more cornering speed. They are slower in a straight line, yes we all agree. However the lack of torque steer, safety and better handling we believe makes up for it. This thread has reached the end of its useful life so long as Chisolm responds in such a manner.

Thanks Greenmatt and vlad

Chisolm, leave us to our opinions. Truthfully have you even driven an AWD? Especially a modified one? We could have bought ralliarts or sports/vrx's but chose to buy the AWD for whatever reason. Obviously this was because we thought it was the better package. I dont know why you are compelled to pull people up on claims that you yourself have no better knowledge of. Having had a modified TE in the past I can assure you that the AWD handles far better in all occasions with a minimum of 10-15km/h more cornering speed. They are slower in a straight line, yes we all agree. However the lack of torque steer, safety and better handling we believe makes up for it. This thread has reached the end of its useful life so long as Chisolm responds in such a manner.

Yep, I've driven a stock awd magna, my neibour has one. Although I will admit I only drove it briefly, it was enough to give me a rough idea. From that, IMO claims like the awd magna is a handleing machine, it will beat a ralliart in the twisties etc are bogus. I appreciated that it was easier to drive near the limit, pretty much point and mash the throttle, but that's all it had going for it in my books. It was slow in a straight line, a bit cumbersome turning into corners and auto, which automtically means I wouldn't even consider buying one.

awd traction is nice, but if you got an auto fwd magna, added ~150-200kg to it, reduced the power at the wheels by say 15%, I guarantee you it wouldn't wheelspin much off the line on decent tyres, and wouldn't need awd to get its limited power to the ground.

My point is in theory the awd drivetrain is great, in practice IMO it really isn't taken advantage of very well. The awd magna really need a manual box, and a good wallop of extra power to make up for the added weight and drivetrain loss. The fact mitsubishi never even released a manual version shows they never intended it to be performance-oriented in any way.

I think it's such a shame that mitsubishi didn't harness the awd magna properly, the potential for a great hero car was there. A manual box, a factory s/c system making some decent power and the ralliart's suspension, and they could have one had one hell of a magna hero car.

The bottom line is never I don't have anything against awd magnas, I couldn't care less. But when owners are making frankly quite laughable claims, I feel the need to pull them up on it, as I hate fanboyism and it really isn't constructive in a motoring forum. These forums are supposed to be about providing accurate and useful information about our cars, not perpetuating misleading info to stroke our own egos.

AWD's are not race cars. It just doesn't matter, what is your issue? They are great, safe, well handling cars. Forgiving for those who aren't racing drivers, but like good handling too. Not many people 'got it' when they were new, and they were a marketing failure, like the equally nice, BUT different Ralliart magna. Those of us without $38K + discovered them when they were cheaper second hand, and love them.

If you have personal issue with a person comments/opinions, please stick to PM's

Will someone PLEASE PLEASE close this thread !!!

Well we have a difference of opinion and thats fine but why pursue it in such great length. This is tedious and I will not be trying in vain to convey my opinion again. Thanks.

AWD's are not race cars. It just doesn't matter, what is your issue? They are great, safe, well handling cars. Forgiving for those who aren't racing drivers, but like good handling too. Not many people 'got it' when they were new, and they were a marketing failure, like the equally nice, BUT different Ralliart magna. Those of us without $38K + discovered them when they were cheaper second hand, and love them.

If you have personal issue with a person comments/opinions, please stick to PM's

Will someone PLEASE PLEASE close this thread !!!
Is it THAT hard to work out man? The poor guy (Chisholm) has said the same thing now in about 5 posts and people still don't understand. I will say it incase it's so hard to figure out or understand, and I'll even put it in bold too...

When people start talking crap about how their AWD magna is as fast as a Ralliart Magna and that it can beat a Ralliart up a twisty hill, they should be brought back to earth because it's obviously ego stroking rubbish.

It's not a mock to AWD's or Ralliarts at all. Just don't make rediculous claims, simple.

......says the ralliart owner!















**DISCLAIMER - this is a JOKE.

I was talking to a guy in motor quip at TTP and he said that a AWD magna rocked up next to them, and they where in a Supra. And they thought this guy was stupid reving his engine, so they took off, and so did this Magna and it went straight past them, well it turned out that this AWD magna had a turbo though.:bowrofl: killed a Supra :bowrofl: