Hello all.

This is my first time posting in these forums, and i have a problem with my partners 97 TF Magna, Auto. 170 000kms

We just recently purchased it second hand, and it was a beautiful machine, running very well, no hiccups. As murphy would have it, within four days of purchase it begins to play up.

Basically it is hesitating under acceleration, misfiring, rough idle, and when you really stick the boot it, blows some white smoke. I have thought of electricals, and checked the plugs, leads and dizzy and that's all good, and i'm still confused on what the problem may be. There is no smoke on idle, the gear changes are still fine and smooth, but there is no power, i mean i take off from a stop, and it changes through 3 gears and does about 20kms top speed before it over-revvs, and "catches up".

am i missing something? fuel system? head gasket? valve seals.
I'm new to the magnas, this is the first time i have had anything to do with them, i usually drive small cars. What annoys me is that it was running great for the first couple of days, and it was just recently serviced before we brought it. Maybe the dealer dodgied it up for the sale.

does anyone know what is going on?

White smoke hmm possible head gasket issue?? Not sure about the over revving part. Keep an eye on water levels etc. Check your oil for milky substance even check under oil cap as well for the same. More people will chime in shortly.

Regards

3 gears and 20km/h definitely isn't normal! Could possibly be a transmission problem? Sure the tranny just isn't in limp mode?

Others with more technical know-how than me will no doubt identify some possibilities...
but it would be worthwhile looking at some of the easier to check things.

Bad fuel? I've had similar symptoms to your car, but not as bad, and it went away
after I refilled at a different servo. A tank of E10 is good for cleaning out condensation
and "free" water that comes with dodgy fuel. If you don't have access to E10, there
are products from auto parts outlets that you tip into the fuel tank to achieve the same
effect. If you've had the misfortune to get a load of dirty fuel, rather than just water
in it, you may have a choked fuel filter.

Blocked air filter? Easy to check, just remove it and have a look. Whilst in that area,
check the air inlet system for blockages or unusual objects.

Head gasket? Check the engine oil dipstick. It should be a normal oil colour, no
milkiness or bubbles in the oil. Also, with the radiator cap removed (remove it when
the engine is cold....scalding warning.....) start the engine, allow to idle until the
thermostat opens.....bubbles in the water (like a carbonated drink) are a dead giveaway
of a blown head gasket, or (if very unlucky) a cracked cylinder head.

Obviously, if you take off the radiator cap and the coolant level is low, there could be a
problem. Coolant loss is either through the radiator cap, coolant overflow bottle, the hose
between them, a leaking hose, welsh plugs, or internal - blown head gasket or cracked head.

Check the front carpets inside the car.....you may have a leaking heater core or heater hoses. If that's the case, you will have a wet carpet. If coolant is disappearing and you
don't know where its going, park the car on concrete when its warmed up, leave it for a while and see if its leaked any coolant onto the ground.

Unlikely to be valve stem seals.....if they were bad enough to cause the problems you
are having, you would see a lot of smoke at idle well before now.

Spark plugs/leads are a common problem area. You say you've checked them though. How long since they were changed? If I was in your position I'd try a new set of spark plugs and have a close look at the plug leads. Also check the connector to the distributor for corrosion. Do the spark plug electrodes appear unusual? That is, black, wet, any colour other than tan? Gapped as per specification?

On the subject of connectors....check those attached to the throttle body, and air mass sensor. Sometimes they become disconnected and merely need to be plugged back in. The
terminals can corrode also.

You could try a computer re-set. Check the search facility for more info, but it involves disconnecting the battery, leaving it that way for a while, and re-connecting it. Don't do it unless you have the code for the radio! Plus, depending on model, you may have to tell the trip computer what sort of car it is! The owner's manual will have info on that.

Just some ideas off the top of my head. Hopefully its something simple. But there's a lot of expertise here and people will help you.

Old One.

trans in limp mode is a very good possibility, the problem could be the transmission control unit (tcu), they are a common problem and if the car is driven for a while with teh problem can result in transmisison failure, best bet is to go to mitsu or someone who can check the computer for codes and see what ya find,


don't get an tcu through mitsu if ya find thats the problem, depending on what state ya in i can give ya a few contacts on cheap trans comps

its possible the oil pump in the trans has let go, this is a common problem with these transmission,

check the oil level, and then get the pressures tested, you will probably have to take it to mitsu or a transmission place

If the transmission was in limp mode it'd be sticking to 3rd only; the fact that it's shifting fine points to an engine problem.

I'd be looking at the fuel system. It may be as simple as a batch of bad fuel, or it could be dirty injectors, dirty or clogged fuel filter, struggling pump, etc.

Run the tank dry, replace the fuel filter, and get the injectors cleaned. Run 20 or 30L of 95 or 98 RON through, and see if it makes a difference.

You might also want to have a look at the intake system, ie. air filter, airbox, piping, throttle body and onwards. If it's filthy with oil residue, then it's possible that the crankcase ventilation system isn't working properly, and the buildup is starving the motor of air.

Let us know how it goes.

i don't understand why a trans can be shifting fine when it changes 3 gears before 20kph ???

Contrags on the Magna purchase. Once you get the issues sorted, hopefully it'll give you many years of stress free enjoyable motoring.

Not symptoms i'm familiar with but it sounds like it could just be a case of sloppy maintenance that nothing but a bit of TLC can't repair.

If it was burning oil, it'd be a bluish smoke and it smells quite bad. Is this the case? Hopefully not as it could get expensive.

Do you have the service history?? If not, then i'd suggest do the whole works especially:

- Replace spark plugs
- Replace Oxygen Sensor (should be done around 160000km)
- Replace fuel filter
- Replace air filter
- Clean injectors (replace if nessasary)
- Clean out (maybe replace) PCV valve
- Drain and replace trans fluid service including filter change (only use Mitsi trans fluid)

Hopefully someone else will chip in with some more ideas....

i don't understand why a trans can be shifting fine when it changes 3 gears before 20kph ???
Zactly, even though he says it feels like it's shifting, i bet its just in limp mode. Best bet is to get the codes checked out. If that doesn't tell you anything it might be a job for the pro's.

it shouldn't shift if its in limp home mode.

it should be locked in 3rd gear.

you said misfire?

As alread mentioned, this is also a good starting point

Go to every electrical connection under the bonnet and use the product CRC CO Contact Cleaner (precision contact cleaning solvent) to make sure that every contact was as clean as the day it was made. FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS PLEASE.

I used it and it made a huge difference in the quality of the idle, engine start and cruise, not to mention the economy.

Thanks for the quick replys.

I have researched from what you have said, and other threads and i have found this.

oil looks fine, no milky substance, oil levels acceptable, (will change it soon)
coolant was low, so i topped it up, wait & see. no leaks around the hoses or waterpump.
i have checked the electricals, plugs, leads & dizzy as best i can (minus the rear plugs, cause of the injection manifold), and the all look okay (no x-mas tree's at night with arc-ing).
no smoke at idle, only at WOT.
the air filter is clean, but i havent checked any of the sensors, or the throttle body.
throttle cable is working fine, as the same hesitation is found both using the pedal, and hand pulling the cable.

i have changed fuels (as it was low before the problem started, maybe it sucked in the slurry of the bottom of a 170 000kms tank) and given it some injector cleaner. again wait & see what happens.
given the electricals a hit of WD40.

about the ECU, wont this "erase" the problem so it cant be seen by diagnostics if i take it to mitsi?

i'll have another good ,look at it, if no good, i'll try mitsi, and see what they say.

cheers people.

what's limp home mode??

I would look at something reeeeealllly simple

Plugs.

Bight the bullet and replace the lot, not hard. I put platinums all round.

For less than $100 inluding plugs and gaskets, its a sinch.

Hope this helps

Cheers

what's limp home mode??


limp mode is when there is a fault in your transmission or the car it self so ECU puts the car into limp (safety) mode so you dont go damaging anything else in the car.

I would look at something reeeeealllly simple

Plugs.

Bight the bullet and replace the lot, not hard. I put platinums all round.

For less than $100 inluding plugs and gaskets, its a sinch.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Agreed there -

Misfire, rough idle etc:
change the rotor and dizzy cap + sparks + leads + air filter etc - see how this goes otherwise:

Otherwise the TPS and ISC might need cleaning.

White Smoke when accelerating:
see if this makes a difference, otherwise the problems could be individual, the white smoke is water burning - valve stem seals going out (would not suprise me on that age car)

As for the Trasmission get a simple $50 test done and it will tell you how its running.

i too agree one of the first things is did you use a ohm meter to check your leads? if not & they are original they will probably have internal cracks in them so if in doubt that would be the first thing i replaced. it should have platinimun spark plugs in it if the 100,000 km service was done correctly.if it only blows white smoke cold then it is probably condensation in your exhaust.
best bet would be to take it into someone if you dont have the gear & just get them to check a few things that way it shouldnt cost much .

White smoke = burning water.

I'd start by having the cooling system pressure checked. What RPM is the engine at when the auto shifts into 3rd gear doing 20km/h???

hey all.
replaced the dizzy cap and it seems to run idle and power a little better, but not my much.
there is funny sounds coming from under the car on acceleration, could be the box clunking. god knows.

had enough, and will "limp" it to mitsi and get them to work magic.

out of interest, how much would i be up for if i had to replace either the auto box or engine with say a recon jobbie?

thanks for all the support will update when it is fixed if anyone interested.

I had a very similar problem to what you're describing a while ago. It turned out to be just the incorrect gapping for the spark plugs. I'd be taking that plenum off and checking the rear ones, by not doing that you haven't eliminated that as a possible cause.

found and fixed the problem.
one, the cat convertor was shagged, and causing teh ecu to throw errors, once that was replaced it was discovered that the timing belt was stretched, and casuing it to retard and advance alll over the shop. (it was the oem timing belt, not changed at 100 000kms).

having both these replaced it is now running great again.

found and fixed the problem.
one, the cat convertor was shagged, and causing teh ecu to throw errors, once that was replaced it was discovered that the timing belt was stretched, and casuing it to retard and advance alll over the shop. (it was the oem timing belt, not changed at 100 000kms).

having both these replaced it is now running great again.

what the timing belt wasn't changed at 100000km and u bought the car at 170000km...jeez u are a lucky fella! thats really pushing the limit of a rubber belt. now that u have found and fixed the issues, i hope this car will be a pleasurable drive for you, as mine has been a bundle of joy!

Good to hear its running again...

So you took it to a mitsi dealer is that right? Just out of interest, how much did they charge to diagnose and fix the prob??

nah, not mitsi. it was too far away to drive when it was playing up.
went to a local bloke i know, services my hyundai and stuff, good fella.

with all the labour, parts and ecu dignostic junk it came up at 1700 bucks.
was expensive but he did end up replacing;

full exhaust & cat convertor
plugs & leads
timing belt & something else like a timing sensor or angle sensor, something.
dizzy rotor

and gave a full inspection of vehicle.
(i've got it all written down on the reports).

it's working now and i'm happy.

yeah, the original timing belt.
we were lucky, if it went, so would the motor, or so i have been told.

well it's all over now, and i pray it goes for another 100 000kms with no dramas.