just found this press release on the MMAL website. It was released by MMAL so theres a fair chance there is a bit of spin in there, but how much? you decide. There is some good points however such as the cars growth (july not included) in a time where the rest of the market segment was in decline

MITSUBISHI CONTINUES TO BEAT ITS OBJECTIVES


Mitsubishi Motors has continued to improve its business position, as well as exceed many of its business targets during July.

MMAL has made another substantial repayment to its parent in Japan, who has also improved its investment rating substantially in the last month. MMAL continues to track ahead of its plan for the first quarter of its financial year, and with its new products just coming on to the market is confident of continuing the general upward trends throughout its business.

'The launches of the ML Triton and manual and Ralliart Colts have just been completed very successfully, and we have had very positive feedback on those products,' President and CEO Robert McEniry said.

'We are holding an order bank on ML Triton that stretches out a couple of months, and the order bank on Colt is also very impressive. Our dealer network is seeing very strong demand for these products, and that gives us great heart for the coming months.

'We are satisfied with the way we are tracking at the moment. To be ahead of our plan at this stage of our financial year is encouraging, particularly when we still have new Pajero and Outlander to launch in the next few months.

'Stock shortages in significant product lines has contributed to our lower sales result in July. Lancer continues to perform fantastically, even though we had stock shortages throughout its range, and we were also very limited on Pajero Exceed and the fast-selling Pajero VRX diesel. The VRX has captured the imagination of the market with its distinctive styling and great value for money. And, of course the diesel engine in this car really is a cracker, which puts us in an enviable position because diesel really is the fuel of choice for larger SUVs in the current climate,' Mr McEniry said.

Mitsubishi's 380 suffered a slight sales downturn this month, but it was also hampered by stock issues on some product lines. Considering the overall Large Car segment decline - with consumers waiting to see the newly released Camry and VE Commodore before making their purchase decisions - Mitsubishi was again satisfied with its sales running rate.

'The good news with 380 is that it is running encouragingly ahead of its cumulative target for the year to date, and it has gained sales in a market that has lost over 8,000 units in that time. Also, it is continuing to gain conquest sales from other brands in many smaller business and government fleets where it is now their preferred car. We expect it will continue to grow again in future months,' Mr McEniry said

This press release has been posted previously (as it is in reference to the July sales and not August sales) and it's all spin. for instance:



MITSUBISHI CONTINUES TO BEAT ITS OBJECTIVES

Mitsubishi's 380 suffered a slight sales downturn this month, but it was also hampered by stock issues on some product lines.
I'll give them the benefit of doubt for their supply issue. But its interesting to see what MMAL defines as slight decline from June to July sales. For instance, 1,569 380s were sold in June. 826 were sold in July, thus on a month to month change, the 380s had dropped 47%, or 743 units.

This press release has been posted previously (as it is in reference to the July sales and not August sales)


appologies, didnt realise

Another bit of news I read was that Mits in Japan is rationalising its platforms from 16 to 4
to reduce development, design etc costs. So future 380s etc will share same platform with
Mits other large cars.

Another bit of news I read was that Mits in Japan is rationalising its platforms from 16 to 4
to reduce development, design etc costs. So future 380s etc will share same platform with
Mits other large cars.

but what other large cars do they produce other then the US gallant which already shares the same platform..

but what other large cars do they produce other then the US gallant which already shares the same platform..
Pretty sure there's a 4x4.

but what other large cars do they produce other then the US gallant which already shares the same platform..
Galant and Endeavour (4x4 SUV) are on the same platform - I think the eclipse is too.

I'll give them the benefit of doubt for their supply issue. But its interesting to see what MMAL defines as slight decline from June to July sales. For instance, 1,569 380s were sold in June. 826 were sold in July, thus on a month to month change, the 380s had dropped 47%, or 743 units.
I think you have to take into account the end of financial year for these figures and it would probably be better to compare July 2005 to this July. Especially seeing as the majority of 380s are purchased as fleet cars and June is typically the month when most government departments spend up big to ensure their budget doesn't get slashed for the next year.

cheers,
.wook

Well seeing as the August sales thread was deleted (with good reason, however premature), I'll continue the theme (well aren't I a naughty boy!).

If one were to do up a graph on MS exel and look at the pattern of 380 sales from Oct 05 to Aug 06, you will notice there to be no real pattern - even if you were to look at it from a futures trader viewpoint. So who knows what the future holds - though if 380 has improved it's sales already with VE and Camry still fresh off the blocks, 380's sales future could well be bright.:)

Galant and Endeavour (4x4 SUV) are on the same platform - I think the eclipse is too.

yeah sorry they are too, but my point was that these cars are already built off the same platform, so what difference if any does this decision to cut back the number of platforms have on the 380 other then perhaps the possibility that the next 380 (if there is one) and gallant, endevour and eclipse will all share an entirely new platform? pretty cool if MMAL got the gig to develop it too like Holden did with the new zeta (commodore) platform

yeah sorry they are too, but my point was that these cars are already built off the same platform, so what difference if any does this decision to cut back the number of platforms have on the 380 other then perhaps the possibility that the next 380 (if there is one) and gallant, endevour and eclipse will all share an entirely new platform? pretty cool if MMAL got the gig to develop it too like Holden did with the new zeta (commodore) platform

I'm pretty sure MMC we're thinking of using a stretched version of the GS platform for the next generation Galant, which would probably not make its way to the market until late 2008/early 2009. The GS platform also underpins the new Outlander, the next-gen Lancer, EVO, probably some other vehicles which are not yet released and the Dodge Caliber (and some Jeep). If this was the case Australia could end-up producing Lancers, which would kind of guarantee the future of MMAL, but, I kind of doubt that happening. I don't know if this is still the plan (the stretched GS platform), but, if it is there are certainly a number of vehicles that could be manufactured at MMAL on this same platform.

Sounds then that a new model 380 would possibly come out in 08/09 then, utilising the new chassis. It really would be nice if MMC would use MMAL to at least build all of MMC subsidiaries's large sedan. Hopefully the next variant would also be designed with AWD and a wagon in mind. That is, if MMAL do put out a new/replacement 380 which I personally can see them doing.

Sounds then that a new model 380 would possibly come out in 08/09 then, utilising the new chassis. It really would be nice if MMC would use MMAL to at least build all of MMC subsidiaries's large sedan. Hopefully the next variant would also be designed with AWD and a wagon in mind. That is, if MMAL do put out a new/replacement 380 which I personally can see them doing.
That WILL NOT happen! I think adz89 was refering to the onsale date in the US. Come 2008 380 will go through what MMAL insiders have described as a "mid-generation make-over". Just like changes from TH to TJ, or TJ to TL. PS41 architecture will remain unchanged. 4 cyl will come out then, possibly before, as well as (hope to God!) a possible new direct-injection DOHC VVT 3.5L V6 coupled to a 6sp auto.

That WILL NOT happen! I think adz89 was refering to the onsale date in the US. Come 2008 380 will go through what MMAL insiders have described as a "mid-generation make-over". Just like changes from TH to TJ, or TJ to TL. PS41 architecture will remain unchanged. 4 cyl will come out then, possibly before, as well as (hope to God!) a possible new direct-injection DOHC VVT 3.5L V6 coupled to a 6sp auto.
I really hope they do this and release this new engine. God knows Mitsubishi have the technology, and have had for YEARS. It will deliver class leading power and economy much like the 3.5 engine in the upcoming Aurion, and I wouldn't be suprised if it betters the Aurions engine in both power and economy. It really is what the Australian 380 needs, and more importantly, it's what the Australian buying public wants! Loads of power and great fuel economy.

I'm pretty certain that the GDI engine wouldn't come out here until the fuel standards are raised. The problem with the GDI engines is that when lean running they produce very high levels of sulphur and nitrous oxides. With our poor quality fuel that has high sulphur levels, meeting emmissions standards would be extremely hard without running restrictive cat converters. It may be possible to run them on premium only, but having a car that only runs on premium will turn away the tight**** buyers.

Okay, I thought I would post this in this thread as the title is fairly accurate (Spin or fact) but it's also been picked up in depth on FFAU and it hasn't been mentioned on here yet. Before I post it, I'll say that I believe it's mostly spin, but who knows. Its an article from News Limited - which at times has a mixed view of the 380 at the best of times.

http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0,20384,20362960-21822,00.html



Best selling new car Blah blah blah VE vs Camry blah blah last three paragraphs:
The figures came as it was suggested a decision on the future of Adelaide car-maker Mitsubishi could come as early as next month.

John Camillo, South Australian secretary of the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union, said Mitsubishi's Japanese parent company told its Australian subsidiary last October as it launched its make-or-break 380 model that it had 12 months to break even.

"Therefore, in October and November this year my understanding is that Mitsubishi Japan will have to make some sort of announcement," Mr Camillo said. "It really depends now on Mitsubishi Japan, whether they continue or don't."

This is coming from news limited, who had rather quite a good interview with Rob Mc.Eniry on 1 September.

Okay, I thought I would post this in this thread as the title is fairly accurate (Spin or fact) but it's also been picked up in depth on FFAU and it hasn't been mentioned on here yet. Before I post it, I'll say that I believe it's mostly spin, but who knows. Its an article from News Limited - which at times has a mixed view of the 380 at the best of times.

http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0,20384,20362960-21822,00.html

This is coming from news limited, who had rather quite a good interview with Rob Mc.Eniry on 1 September.
Wow, that's big. Hadn't heard that before about MMC telling MMAL they had 12 months to break even - but your right that's probably spin, though there's now sufficient grounds for a real element of doubt, and that would only hurt MMAL further.

If this is the case then MMC will have a lot of blood on their hands considering they played a significant role in the disaster that was 380's launch.

Let's hope the announcement is that the Adelaide plant will undergo a facelift to start building on an AWD platform or something. :doubt:

Let's hope the announcement is that the Adelaide plant will undergo a facelift to start building on an AWD platform or something. :doubt:

dreaming..

my understanding is tho that MMAL have actually been tracking ahead of financial predictions and are likely to post a profit this year, mostly thanks to the other models in the range rather then 380. As for the GDI engine, Holden are likely to introduce a direct injection V6 into the commodore range in the coming years so that will obviously be run on our fuels, so theres no reason 380 cant have one too. There are a few cracking V6 engines lurking in the mitsubishi empire (making V6 engines is just about the best thing mitsubishi does!) so theres plenty of scope, along with a 4cyl motor and styling revisions, for an updated 380 to be quite successful. The current model is a damn fine car, but is just a touch off the mark in a few crucial areas, but i personally think its nothing that is beyond repair.

New front end styling, new 4cyl engine, new V6 delivering class leading fuel economy and atleast near class leading power and a 6speed auto would = successfull car in my opinion

It would be possible to run a direct engine, but to meet emmissions, they could not be used at maximum efficiency. At max efficiency they can have air fuel ratios up to 40:1:shock:.

i think that a 4cyl option would definately go well even if it was a large 4 cyl (2.4L etc) and i think that a 'sports' model with a tuned v6 and a 6 speed auto with a slightly sporty look wouldnt go astray (the vrx is nowhere near sporty imo)

I really dont know whether MMAL would be able to obtain the 2.4L engine for much less than the 3.8L engine - their might only be $500-$800 difference between the two - this would make it hard for the 2.4L to be a viable option if the 3.8L isnt sold at a premium (which we all know its not - in fact I cant see the 380 as a whole car getting much cheaper).

I dont see too many people ticking the 4 cyl option if the difference was less than $1,000.

I really dont know whether MMAL would be able to obtain the 2.4L engine for much less than the 3.8L engine - their might only be $500-$800 difference between the two - this would make it hard for the 2.4L to be a viable option if the 3.8L isnt sold at a premium (which we all know its not - in fact I cant see the 380 as a whole car getting much cheaper).

I dont see too many people ticking the 4 cyl option if the difference was less than $1,000.

i understand your point and a few years ago i would most definetly have agreed with you, however now with everybody seemingly saying "wha wha fuel prices wha wha wha" i think that those people who are not buying V6's would buy the 4cyl model, whereas those who want a V6 will think their car is a bit of a bargain cos its the same price as the 4. At the end of the day you just have to look at the previous model camry as an example. Yeah there was a difference in price between the 4 and the 6, but at the end of the day those who wanted the 4 where always going to buy the 4, and those who wanted the 6 would always have payed the extra to get the 6

just my take on it, alternatively they could source a swisho mivec GDI V6 and sell that at a premium, or how about a turbo diesel? I think theres potentially a bit of a short term gold mine for the first aussie manufacturer to sell their family car in diesel guise....

EDIT: thinking about the turbo diesel thing a bit more, when the VE commo was released people went on and on about how it was a mistake there was not turbo diesel model, so surely that means theres a market.. instead of working on a 4cyl model why wouldn't MMAL work on a turbo diesel variant? i mean its basically guaranteed of success!! I know for european models MMC source their diesels from audi and peugeot, but if those engines where too expensive why not the new turbo diesel donk out of the latest triton? According to all reports its a cracker of an engine and surely couldn't be too hard to re-tune for family car applications rather then offroading.. just need to change the driveability characteristics a little

Okay, I thought I would post this in this thread as the title is fairly accurate (Spin or fact) but it's also been picked up in depth on FFAU and it hasn't been mentioned on here yet. Before I post it, I'll say that I believe it's mostly spin, but who knows. Its an article from News Limited - which at times has a mixed view of the 380 at the best of times.

http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0,20384,20362960-21822,00.html



This is coming from news limited, who had rather quite a good interview with Rob Mc.Eniry on 1 September.
Unfortunately this appears to be more fact than spin as time goes by. I actually had a word with MMAL spokesman Kevin Taylor yesterday who wouldn't rule this out, nor did he say exactly what MMAL was meant to break even on. Also just came across this article from The Australian (you'll need to scroll down a bit):

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20361880-2702,00.html

We still don't know for certain if MMAL were meant to break even on the 380 program specifically, or whether MMC expected them to break even across the entire range. If it were the latter we should have little to worry about...
:pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray:

To be honest Japan should be looking at MMALs performance in different categories for MMAL these would be something like: car sales, part sales, vehicle manufacturing, servicing, hire car arm (thrifty). Vehicle manufacturing on it's own in Australia for MMAL is pretty underperforming for the MMAL group - it's also going to be the cause of the majority of the costs to the group as well.

To be honest Japan should be looking at MMALs performance in different categories for MMAL these would be something like: car sales, part sales, vehicle manufacturing, servicing, hire car arm (thrifty). Vehicle manufacturing on it's own in Australia for MMAL is pretty underperforming for the MMAL group - it's also going to be the cause of the majority of the costs to the group as well.
... and knowing the way Rob McEniry operates, and how he managed Pacific Tyres in the past, this would be reason enough for him either close the manufacturing operations himself, let alone MMC.:doubt:

... and knowing the way Rob McEniry operates, and how he managed Pacific Tyres in the past, this would be reason enough for him either close the manufacturing operations himself, let alone MMC.:doubt:
Thats right, from I would say that is one of the reasons why Rob McEniry was given the job by MMC - this guy can impliment exit strategies. Most CEOs have a core characteristic, and I would say that Rob does have expertise as a tough liquidator at South Pacific Tyres.

Where-as I think Tom Phillips was too in the image of TMCA - if the 380 was a Toyota product, then the launch campaign would have probably worked.

Even Toyota is doing what MMAL did with the launch of the 380 in respects of the Aurion - drip feeding information to the market to try to delay people's purchase of a motor vehicle until it gets on sale. For 380 it was the BF., for Aurion its the VE

Though it now seems there are obvious reasons for a plant shut-down, it's still hard to believe given the engineering talent in Adelaide, not to mention the fantastic manufacturing facilities at Tonsley Park - MMC would be foolish to lose an asset that could deliver so much. It would be too costly to shut it just 12 months after a $600m investment, wouldn't it?

Or maybe this explains why any development or body changes on the 380 were held off until next year...

I really dont know whether MMAL would be able to obtain the 2.4L engine for much less than the 3.8L engine - their might only be $500-$800 difference between the two - this would make it hard for the 2.4L to be a viable option if the 3.8L isnt sold at a premium (which we all know its not - in fact I cant see the 380 as a whole car getting much cheaper).

I dont see too many people ticking the 4 cyl option if the difference was less than $1,000.

They could always slip in the 2.4 ltr out of the outlander. 120kw mivec engine. Downside is that my 380 vrx gets better fuel economy than my wifes outlander, so i dont know how it would go in a car thats 300kg's heavier.

It would be too costly to shut it just 12 months after a $600m investment, wouldn't it?

exactly right, and for a company like MMC who desperately wants to break even this financial year, a $600 million loss is not something that is going to help.. i really honestly believe that MMAL and MMC's objective is to make tonsley park and the 380 work, an exit strategy would be the last resort. I think they will forge ahead with a major mid-cycle upgrade of the car to give it one last chance at success, but obviously if that doesn't work then yes definetly tonsley park is gone.

Just another article - this time from Goauto



No 380 diesel, ESP
MITSUBISHI Australia has hit a brick wall in sourcing a suitable diesel engine – in either four- or six-cylinder guise – for its 380 large sedan.

"There’s not one that’s the right size," president and CEO Rob McEniry told GoAuto. He said the 3.2-litre DiD found in the Pajero 4WD, and the 2.0-litre TDI that Mitsubishi in Europe was using in some of its small cars, were unsuitable.

Meanwhile, Mr McEniry also said there were no plans to offer stability control in the 380 in light of its introduction across the VE Commodore range.

"We’re investigating it ... I think progressively over time it will become a standard feature in most cars ... (but) when will that be is an issue," he said.

Shame about the 3.2L Diesel - would have thought that it would have been an option given the history of the current 3.8 and pajero.

Just another article - this time from Goauto



Shame about the 3.2L Diesel - would have thought that it would have been an option given the history of the current 3.8 and pajero.

hmm yeah thats dissapointing.. must be some kind of packaging issue, obviously the 3.2 is fitted north south in the pajero and triton engine bays so maybe its just not compatible with the east-west layout of the 380.. oh well just all the more reason for getting their hands on a 4cyl quick smart! And it better be a good one!!