Hey guys I need some answers, before I go crazy and splurge on getting a service and getting everything tuned and cleaned up. Few things that are happening at the moment.

Start up;

- Start up, hear this god awful grinding sound (friend said it might be bearings) lasts about 2seconds
- Car idles just above 1000rpm after initial start
- Ticking sound from around 3 places, the engine itself, possible the alternator (not sure) and somewhere near the radiator.

After car has warmed up and idle for about 5-10minutes;

- Ticking is pretty much gone
- Car sounds fine, normal engine sounds when I bought it
- Take off is fine, no sluggish starts

Driving the car;

Say I drive 5 or so K's to fast food joint, from residential to 60 to 70k/m roads, as I pull up to the drive through the car is rattling, and the dual-fans are going nuts..the car is hot, but not overley hot. The thermostat gauge is showing mid temp.

Driving at high km's or with steady revs about 1500rpm+ car sounds fine, it's only when i'm idle that it sounds ratty.

Known possible problems;

- I initially over filled the car with oil, however most of the above was occuring prior to this.
- The overflow bottle is showing over full, however when I open up the radiator cap, it looks dry as.

If anyone knows or has had the above problems, please advise, and anyone who has any suggestions and knows what they are talking about I would appreciate it.

I have never since my purchase in march had any mechanical issues with the car. The car is due for a service in the next 2000k/m however if the above gets worse it looks like it will be sooner.

Sounds like a normal astron to me:
Rattle on startup = no oil on the timing chain, takes a couple of seconds for the oil to lube it up.
ticking sound will be your tappets.

Overfilling the oil wont help either as the oil pressure is probably all wrong.
Car shouldn't have any issues running like this.

myn does the exact same thing - well without the grinding on start up

my radiator went through a period of being dry yet overflow being full - dunno what happned, one day it went back to normal :S

id say get a full service done, with good quality oil

*edit* aaarrrr!

hrmm I concur, as it's been like this for over a month, however it's only just now started getting hot, so I might need to get the thermo checked.

And like I said no issues what so ever with the car, in regards to mechanical failure.

I'm using Castrol GTX 2 for the oil, one other thing, could running a 4cyl TR on BP Premium be causing this? i've since changed back to reg. unleaded, and another thing to note, the car runs like a dream after i've filled it up, the next day it's back to normal???

Get a radiator flush.

I concur.. they all sound like normal aging Astron characteristics to me.

Tapping noise for a few mins when cold is normal but can probably be supressed by using a slightly thicker viscosity oil such as a good quality 15w30. The thinner oils which are good for new engines don't provide engines with timing chains with the best protection when cold.

If the 2 second grinding on startup sound you get is like you've tipped over a cup of ball bearings, then its probably the starter motor winding down.

Did that already nearly 10,000k/m ago, $120...

Had to get a new pump as well as I believe the dealer ship that had the car before the person I purchased it off, glued the factory plastic one back on. Yes glued it back on!

As said above, the thicker oil will help relieve some of the initial start up chatter, but it is kinda normal.

The water prob could be due to the radiator cap not allwing in-flow or a leak in the tubing to the overflow. Mine was dodgy when I first got it and it wouldn't suck water back into the radiator when the water cooled. Simple solution was getting a new radiator cap and an overflow bottle cap from a wreakers. Also may be a good idea to check or just replace the thermostat. The Astrons really really don't handle overheating too well.

hrmm might be radiator. Footscray to Werribe and back.

Going to werribe it was fine, getting a bit hot, temp gauge still normal. Coming back prob 10minutes from home, engine was very hot, could hear rattles when idiling, may be the radiator causing the issue.

Might just bite the bullet and get a new one from ebay for $250.

If I were you I'd do the cheap stuff first. The radiator and overflow caps are dead cheap. Try and source where the rattle is coming from. It may just be something loose.

I had ticking noises in my old TR (only under acceleration) turns out it was a stud missing from the exhaust manifold or something..

You have around 3 bearings on the side with all the belts, like power steering etc, they are there to tighten the belts, these wear after time and can make some dreadful noises and if they are truly stuffed could put extra load on the car under idle.
When your putting the boot in then you dont normally notice it or if your cruising over 2000rpm you probably dont hear them either.
Easy way to tell is get an extra long screwdriver and put it on the side of the bearing were the nut is and put your ear to the other end of the screwdriver, with the engine running you should hear a nice thrumming noise if the bearing is ok, if its stuffed you will hear ticking, when totally had it they will make a grinding noise.

i had the ticking noise my good ol tr which made me sell the car before i rack up costing me $1000 on the engine.

My TP had a ticking problem that developed about a month before It died in a cloud of smoke and lakes of internal fluids.

Have fun :P

muteLABs -- is the problem fixed?

Yep, you're keeping us in suspense here!

I had ticking noises in my old TR (only under acceleration) turns out it was a stud missing from the exhaust manifold or something..

*shakes head ruefully* Another astron characteristic? Mine had that TOO!

I had loud tappets and whatnot on the maggot, and my radiator also went through the phase that yours is.
I drained the coolant, ripped off the hoses to the water pump and ran my garden hose through the engine water jacket for half an hour - both directions. The amount of gunk built up in there and the bottom of the radiator was something to behold. I wasnt having heat problems as i just kept the thing topped up, but i figured it was time to do it.
Pity i didnt have the tools because (assuming the car have them (never looked)) i would have taken out the welch plugs and cleaned it better + put new ones in.
Tappets and such, i got a bottle or trade oil flush (wont say where from though i wasnt supposed to get it retail :D) and ran the car idle for about 20 min, just opening throttle once hot to about 5000rpm for 30 seconds (as per instructions). Wasnt so bad what came out (not as bad as i expected i mean), but the tappets were a bit louder after that - less gunk built up around them.
I got a bottle of that nulon tappet stuff, and now they are quiet on startup and drive, but if i idle for about 5 minutes they make a bit of noise now and then.

Not as of yet, quick question and yes i'm a major noob when it comes to cars.

When checking the radiator when cold, there is no fluid at the top, however the metal/material at the top looks somewhat moist, however I cannot be sure.

As for the bearings, if it's near the alternator, then thats it, however it is also the engine which is ticking.

I can't really afford a service at the moment, and I don't want to really do anything myself unless I **** it up.

Question: Would putting water in the radiator, stuff it up? even though the overflow is over full, however the car seems to be hot?

Thanks for the replies it's all fantastic info!

p.s. the noise only really started when I neglected to check the oil, and it was below low. I then stupidly overfilled it, it's still a cm above the full mark, and I refilled it like 2-3months ago.

When I start the car initially I hear grinding, and when idle, on/off grinding not heaps though.

you wont be stuffing it up by putting water in ur radiator even if u fill it rite up to the top, overfilling ur oil is said to be bad but i did it once accidently and nothing really happened mind u i have a 6G72

Not as of yet, quick question and yes i'm a major noob when it comes to cars.

When checking the radiator when cold, there is no fluid at the top, however the metal/material at the top looks somewhat moist, however I cannot be sure.

As for the bearings, if it's near the alternator, then thats it, however it is also the engine which is ticking.

I can't really afford a service at the moment, and I don't want to really do anything myself unless I **** it up.

Question: Would putting water in the radiator, stuff it up? even though the overflow is over full, however the car seems to be hot?


yes dude i had the same problem with my tr as i've said, the ticking noise would ever go away it will drive you instane as it did with me

Thanks for the replies it's all fantastic info!

p.s. the noise only really started when I neglected to check the oil, and it was below low. I then stupidly overfilled it, it's still a cm above the full mark, and I refilled it like 2-3months ago.

When I start the car initially I hear grinding, and when idle, on/off grinding not heaps though.

some-one from amc told me to replace the car before i would wasting 1000+ replacing the engine, when a car is going like that its just a matter of time til she goes.:rant:.

The radiator is meant to be full right up to the cap.

I'd be checking and refilling it daily until its fixed.

You cant overfill it. If you over fill the bottle it will be lost onto the road but not the radiator.

Do not check the radiator when the car is hot. You will get scolded if you do.

Rob

Haha I know atleast that much! alright i'll fill it up with water and see if I notice a difference, if thats the case, might need some new pumps and a new overflow bottle + etc.

As for the car going :( don't say that i'm still paying the damn thing off haha. Well if I end up taking it to mechanics and he says the engines gonna go, i'll drive it till I dies, like I said, no dramas at all and it's been like this for months.

I had a similar problem with my '92 TR. The overflow cap probably has a hole in it or there is a hole in the line somewhere. There should be a vacuum from the overflow to the radiator to allow the coolant in the overflow to go back into the radiator when needed. If you have a hole in the cap air pressure well prevent this. The other problems only sound minor just change your oil to something thicker and be done with it.

Well it was a bit strange today, I let the car cool for about 30minutes..pulled off the radiator cap, and the overflow bubbled..however all I saw was like a soapy residue, no heaps, just bubbly I suppose, anyway filled it with water, still getting a tad hot, and rattling is still aparent when idle, if not worse.

Also, I tend to dump the car into netreul (manual) when pulling up to lights, is this bad for the car?

p.s. the noise only really started when I neglected to check the oil, and it was below low. I then stupidly overfilled it, it's still a cm above the full mark, and I refilled it like 2-3months ago.

When I start the car initially I hear grinding, and when idle, on/off grinding not heaps though.

Buddy, you seriously need to get under your car tommorow with a shallow bucket and undo the sump plug and drain some oil out of the engine, having too much oil is as bad as not enough.
I read an article on the "holden v6 death rattle dance" not nice stuff, was done by an apprentice mechanic, filled up the oil too much, did'nt last long at all, fortunately they saved the motor.

The reason they put it down to, was this, too much oil in most cases means the oil level goes above the oil pump, the oil pump then cant work properly, meaning not getting sufficient lubrication to the motor.
Which is probably why your getting grinding on start up until it manages to get some oil in the upper parts of the motor.

Alright i'll drain in today, how much should I drain? I still have about 2litres left in a bottle, should I just drain the entire car, run the engine for a few seconds, then refil?

Alright look i'm gonna do a massive cleanout today, tell me what I should do in regards to the oil, and what I shouldn't, and if I should flush anything, like the oil filter or some of the pumps?

Whaterver you do, do not run the engine without oil in it.

Rob

Same problems with the Tp, sounded **** horrible on start up at first but then got louder the more I drove it, anyway, new timing chain + newer head + roller rockers soon, should be good!

Do not ever run your motor without oil in it.
Just drain some out and check the level, you want the level to indicate just below the full mark, and all should be good.

Alright did a massive clean up, and the amount of oil that came out was quite shocking, looks to be about 2-3litres if not more (pics below).

First, we drained the oil. Degreased the engine etc (was filthy).

Went and purchased a new Oil Filter @ $8 why say no?

The oil wasn't clumpy, just very very black.

So we let that drain for over an hour, replaced the oil filter, poured in about 1.5Ltrs of GTX 2 waited 15minutes, dip stick wasn't really showing anything. Added another litre, still dipstick not really showing anything. Added another 500ml, and the oil finally rose to "low" level.

Started her up, the grinding sound was still aparent, but didn't sound as bad. Still a fair bit of ticking, left her idle for about 20minutes (friend spilt oil over engine, so there was a bit of smoke).

However what I don't understand is, once the engine had reached mid temp, hadn't been reving it, nothing, the fans were going nuts. So possibly a thermostat issue.

Anywho, I took it for a quick spin, alot quicker with take off, quieter to drive. However even when the engine was still warm, dipstick was still reading low level.

My question is, if it's still low and i've already put in about 2-2.5litres worth, should I put in more or not?

The rattles haven't really gone when idle, or has the ticking, however that might be damaged due to the massive amount of oil already in the car.

Look at the oil pictures, I couldn't believe how much there was!

I would have thought about 4 litres.

Rob

In the tub? Or what I should pour?

your thermofans should tend to go nuts when the car isn't moving, as most of a cars cooling system is designed to operate with airflow ie when moving, yeah just fill oil until it's full, a little bit too much oil isnt bad, mitsu wouldve factored in a large error margin.

Well I put in another litre now, still only just above "low" mark.

Took it for another drive, very quiet while driving now, esp below 2500rpm, but if I punch it past 2500rpm, she starts to get a tad noisy.

Got home, lifted bonnet, it now only seems I can hear ticking/rattle coming from engine :(

One can assume this is due to my incompetence. However she is running a hell of a lot better, then before the clean up.

Thanks for everyone's help!

good to hear it's running better, it's good you drained out all the oil not just the excess because with all that grinding you described, there'd be some lovely abrasive metal flakes and particles in your oil. although your oil filter is meant to catch all that, fine particles might still circulate.
have you changed your thermostat and radiator cap yet? also inspect the overflow bottle cap -if it has a crack or hole in the tube going in, then water that has expanded and collected into the overflow bottle will not be sucked back into the engine as it cools. if you are losing water then it could be this.
ticking noises from tappets generally occur because of sludge buildup, particularly if the oil isn't changed every 10000km. sludge will tend to stay in your engine during an oil change- so over time sludge levels will increase until some eventually block things up.

Well I put in another litre now, still only just above "low" mark.

On my count you have still only put in 3 litres and 4 is nearer the correct amount.

Rob

I put in almost five litres at my last change. The amount of oil in your drain pan does not look excessive to me.

Keep your oil level up at the full mark. There's only 1 litre between low and full.

Yes, keep it up to the full mark, but dont go past it again.
Really glad to hear it is running better for you. Keep an eye on it still and keep us posted.:)

No dramas, will do.

As for the thermostat, that hasn't been checked. When I first purchased the car I had the radiator flushed, and had to get a new pump + cap due to the factory plastic one being glued back on where it had snapped....

However the lid of the overflow is corroded, so it most likeley will need replacing, may make a trip the wreckers tomorrow, will also put in another litre tomorrow and see how I go.

Thanks again.

Also to add, I grabbed a cheap can of tire shine "Australian Export" some crap from super cheap, sprayed my tires, was quite impressed. It also said it could be used on side skirts etc, so I did..it looks fantastic! no faded grey anymore, it looks really nice, will take some pics tomorrow to show you guys.

I have the '92 model which requires 4.5 litres running the car with too little oil is going to lead to engine fusion where the pistons gets stuck inside the cylinder. This is something that you don't want.

I have the '92 model which requires 4.5 litres running the car with too little oil is going to lead to engine fusion where the pistons gets stuck inside the cylinder. This is something that you don't want.

Can I be frank and just say...no ****.

Anyway, put in another litre now. Just below the full mark, car is running fantastic. Thanks everyone.

ey dude, i just read ur intial issues and stuff with the car. I had the exact same problems with startup and it being quiet after it had warmed up. Oil occasionally fixed this but recently it started getting worse. It got to the point where it was rattling constantly! so i spent 500 bucks and did the whole timing chain replacment. Not tightening. i replaced the whole thing, aswell as sprokets. Put it this way, no noise on start up, and runs like new!

I thought everyone in these forums would haave known this by now, I looked at so many 2nd gens till I found one that had a quiet chain..... and now its gettin noisey :rant:. It's especially bad after doing 100+kms in one run or taking off from lights all day with a lead foot, sounds like a deisel.

Just to update, it ran good for two weeks, now it's noisey as hell again.

A Service it is next pay *sigh*

timing chain rattle is widely know in the astron 2.6's i also thought that would of been obvious lol, just get the timing chain and guides changed. It should be done every 100,000km with your major service. you can actually change it without having to take off the head (just the chain) if thats all that you need to change, you link your new one to your old one, tie a piece of metal wire to the other end (to stop it from falling in) and slowly crank the engine over until you have pulled the old one through in its place, that way it keeps the alignment/timing all exacly the same and only limited calibration is needed.

That way you can be cheap like me and only change the rocker cover gasget ;) didn't want to take the whole head off (That was my last magna.)

Chains last longer than 100000ks, more like 250000ks that's why manufacturers used chains instead of belts.

Chains last longer than 100000ks, more like 250000ks that's why manufacturers used chains instead of belts.

hehe, i dont think the 2nd gen astron owners will agree with ya there...the V6's still have to get there timing belts done every 100K

I would totally beg to differ with you on that, the chains rattle easily after 100,000km i changed mine at least every 100,000, much better than snapping a timing chain and then blowing up your engine because the oil pump stops working and fries the engine!