I don't follow the 380 - since I don't own one - but I read a lot of stuff regarding a 190kw version on various websites over the last 6months. So is there any truth to this? I've been on the MMAL site and their still raving about having 175/340 :doubt:

It could happen.... Would be a shot in the foot to offer anything new with less than 200 with the new toyota...

Yep, everything is going to look rather boring under 200kW now toyota have shown us the way, time for all the rest to play catch up now.:doubt:

TRD are having BIG problems in the US with their supercharger kits. They are apparently rebuilding a lot motors for less than happy customers. Why is this so hard to do properly - oh that's right - they're doing it CHEAP.

Bit OT but I seen you screaming around the corner at Molly Morgan Motor Inn today dude. Bout 5:40pm.

Bit OT but I seen you screaming around the corner at Molly Morgan Motor Inn today dude. Bout 5:40pm. Were you 1st or 2nd off the lights? I love gassing that corner and the next in 2nd at about 50km. The rh upto greenhills op the hospital in 2nd is my preferred: the wheels spin and the simps look around to see who the commodore hoon is :D

Were you 1st or 2nd off the lights? I love gassing that corner and the next in 2nd at about 50km. The rh upto greenhills op the hospital in 2nd is my preferred: the wheels spin and the simps look around to see who the commodore hoon is :D

Yeah that was me. I need to arrange some time to get you to work your magic on my throttle body aswell. Ive got your number in my phone, whens the best time to give you a shout?

Yeah that was me. I need to arrange some time to get you to work your magic on my throttle body aswell. Ive got your number in my phone, whens the best time to give you a shout?

During the day is best. We can sort out the details that way, decide how to proceed.

Back on topic, a power upgrade is 100% confirmed for the 380 - just a matter of timing.

The original give or take 190kW upgrade was originally penned for mid 2006, but a strain on MMC Japan's engineers (with upcoming releases inc Outlander, Pajero, Lancer) put the project on hold till early 2007.

I suspect (and hope) that MMAL will react to market conditions (ie - 200kW Aurion) and ensure the 380 either equals output, or focuses on competing with the Aurion performance wise.

380's current 175kW donk easily takes care of business, and a 380ES is almost as quick as a new 195kW VE SV6 (7.6 vs 7.3), thanks to a very clever engine management system MMAL developed with Bosch. So the new "hot" 190+kW 380 may very well beat the Aurion in real world driving, though I doubt they can achieve this and at the same time threaten Toyota's fuel consumption claims.

I don't follow the 380 - since I don't own one - but I read a lot of stuff regarding a 190kw version on various websites over the last 6months. So is there any truth to this? I've been on the MMAL site and their still raving about having 175/340 :doubt:

Don't hold your breath waiting for a 190kW engine in the 380.

Anyway the 3.8 liter in the 380 spanks the base 3.6 litre in the VE Commodore. Although the 3.6 has more peak power, the 3.8 has a nicer torque curve. Combine that with a 5 speed auto and lighter kerb weight (comparing the poverty pack models) and the base 380 looks very good compared to the base VE. Then take into consideration the RRP - $27,990 versus $34,990 and the 380 is looking very attractive.

FF

Don't hold your breath waiting for a 190kW engine in the 380.

I figured I'd have to personally put it there :doubt:

Just needs mivecs and variable inlet manifold, a decent exhaust header would help in spades too!

just putting it out there, where do they stop with the power for a fwd?? As if i was mature and looking for a sensible family car... my car has to much power at the wheels, and i'd say a 200kw aurion would have more power to weight than mine. Not fwd v other variations just at a point it becomes impracticle...

Agreed. It's OK for enthusiasts but for the mainstream?
The other trend is chasing Kw at the expense of practicality. Any engine can make high power but can it make it as usable power with torque for everyday?
The high power Alloytech is a good example. Through DOHC it develops 190-195 Kw only by revving it high up the range and it's soft lower down. The Toyota 3 litre is another example where you have to thrash it to to get reasonable power.
What's the point for Mr Everyman? He's better off with less power but more torque. Doesn't look so good on the brochure tho.

As the old saying goes: "Power wins sales, torque wins races".

after driving a TJ sports V6 manual around all weekend i must say that for a family car that thing had more then enough grunt. I really dont think that peak power is the issue for the 380, i mean how many V6 camry's have toyota sold in their time? and they have never really rivalled the power of the commodore or falcon. The issue with 380 is 80% styling and 20% the perception that MMAL is going to close its doors and therefore resale is hurting

Keeping in mind the example you gave of the camry, do you think it's the other way round - 20% styling and 80 % the other, + lack of advertising?
The Camry has never had any styling - present model excepted- but sold s***loads.

Agreed. It's OK for enthusiasts but for the mainstream?
The other trend is chasing Kw at the expense of practicality. Any engine can make high power but can it make it as usable power with torque for everyday?
The high power Alloytech is a good example. Through DOHC it develops 190-195 Kw only by revving it high up the range and it's soft lower down. The Toyota 3 litre is another example where you have to thrash it to to get reasonable power.
What's the point for Mr Everyman? He's better off with less power but more torque. Doesn't look so good on the brochure tho.

I full agree with that,mate.

why don't they say that have xxx armount of torque

Keeping in mind the example you gave of the camry, do you think it's the other way round - 20% styling and 80 % the other, + lack of advertising?
The Camry has never had any styling - present model excepted- but sold s***loads.

Yes. Mitsubishi make brilliant stuff but they fall down every time in the marketing department. Nissan follows closely in Australia. Look at the advertisement every weekend in the sydney morning herald - a double page spread which looks like the whitman's sampler of what you can buy, vague and of poor taste. Only once I've seen a proper ad for the 380 for the gt which was perfect, attention grabbing and focusing only on the 380. Sure it would have cost a heap but costs less than not selling cars.

Mitsubishi needs to spend more on advertising and get some confidence about themselves, then the consumer might have confidence in them.

Keeping in mind the example you gave of the camry, do you think it's the other way round - 20% styling and 80 % the other, + lack of advertising?
The Camry has never had any styling - present model excepted- but sold s***loads.


hmm see your point, but probably not you the same extent you have gone, lets call it 50-50

just putting it out there, where do they stop with the power for a fwd?? As if i was mature and looking for a sensible family car... my car has to much power at the wheels, and i'd say a 200kw aurion would have more power to weight than mine. Not fwd v other variations just at a point it becomes impracticle...

Interestingly SAAB noted back at the Griffin development that 230kw and 400nm seemed to be the practical ceiling for FWD.

Interestingly SAAB noted back at the Griffin development that 230kw and 400nm seemed to be the practical ceiling for FWD.
Most powerful SAAB ever is the current 9-3 Aero with 184kw.

I think you mean the SAAB Viggin with 169kw.

Anyway what your saying is correct however tyre advancement and more adaptive traction control systems probably mean that the 200kw mark is around about the new sensible maximum for the new breed of fwds.

There's Honda Civics out there with like 500HP at the front wheels.

why don't they say that have xxx armount of torque

Because your average joe blogs does not understand torque. They only understand power
as everything else the average joe blogs uses has power ratings (light bulbs, a/c, lawn
mower, power tools etc etc etc).

yea fair enough

before this forum i used to be, fwd are ****e, you can't do nothing to them yadda yadda,
but learning over the last year, i realise in time, that you can have a powerful fwd, just get a nice tune setup and good tyres and you'll be sweet, really the only difference is that off the line fwd may have a slight more traction problem, when were talking in getting cars 12 seconds or less down the quater, but they would handle pretty much the same around a track, although i haven't done this before, the fact remains, how power cars are always gonna have traction problems

There's Honda Civics out there with like 500HP at the front wheels.
NA???

Anyway what your saying is correct however tyre advancement and more adaptive traction control systems probably mean that the 200kw mark is around about the new sensible maximum for the new breed of fwds.
wouldnt a more accurate measurement for a "ceiling" be to use power-to-weight figures? Future FWD's may have over 200kW, but they may also weigh 1800-1900kg! In which case a TJ Sports would have close to or higher power-to-weight.

There's Honda Civics out there with like 500HP at the front wheels.

yeah and it would be a complete ***** to drive

yeah and it would be a complete ***** to drive

Forget about cornering while accelerating :doubt:

Can't these twits come up with an original platform to modify - like a Magna or a corolla tercel lol

yeah and it would be a complete ***** to drive
Haha, so true. Can you imagine the torque steer?

To answer Redav: No man, turbo'd. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jNBn5UEMLc

380's current 175kW donk easily takes care of business, and a 380ES is almost as quick as a new 195kW VE SV6 (7.6 vs 7.3), thanks to a very clever engine management system MMAL developed with Bosch. So the new "hot" 190+kW 380 may very well beat the Aurion in real world driving, though I doubt they can achieve this and at the same time threaten Toyota's fuel consumption claims.
I take my hat off to the mmt work done but it still doesn't get the air in and the exhaust out any faster without variable valve timing. The 380 has the Aurion and Commonwho by the displacement balls for a change. Only the Falcon now stands in it's way. So add another $3000 worth of vvt, knock sensing and more aggressive tuning (ditch 2 of the 3cat converters too!!) and the 200kw magical barrier will be history. Should be able to crack the 100nm per litre capacity too.

Time for them to start buying inlet manifolds off me?? :think:

Time for them to start buying inlet manifolds off me?? :think:

Yea,that a good idea.:pray: :clap:

yea fair enough

before this forum i used to be, fwd are ****e, you can't do nothing to them yadda yadda,
but learning over the last year, i realise in time, that you can have a powerful fwd, just get a nice tune setup and good tyres and you'll be sweet, really the only difference is that off the line fwd may have a slight more traction problem, when were talking in getting cars 12 seconds or less down the quater, but they would handle pretty much the same around a track, although i haven't done this before, the fact remains, how power cars are always gonna have traction problems


thats the biggest load of sh**t iv herd, there is no possible way that a fwd drive car will handle better than a rwd vehicle, BMW should convert there m3's to fwd hahaha

thats the biggest load of sh**t iv herd, there is no possible way that a fwd drive car will handle better than a rwd vehicle,

when did valaxy66 say that a fwd car will handle better then a rwd vehicle?

thats the biggest load of sh**t iv herd, there is no possible way that a fwd drive car will handle better than a rwd vehicle, BMW should convert there m3's to fwd hahaha
Dude, are you retarded?

thats the biggest load of sh**t iv herd, there is no possible way that a fwd drive car will handle better than a rwd vehicle, BMW should convert there m3's to fwd hahaha

One word SUPERTOURERS!!

that was a delayed reaction

well from i can understand, if you have a properly tuned suspension set up, to minimise traction problem, you can get a good time from fwd, i mean just take a look at all the hot hatches that just came out, there all rockets and all fwd, and there been plenty of fwd cars come out in hot4s do run some good times down the quater, but from 12 seconds onward it will be extremely hard for fwd to get faster,

sure in race spec trim, fwd wouldn't be used, but in street trim, they can put up a good fight, and in some cases take other rwd/awd cars out.

but don't turn this into a fwd vs rwd garbage again, i only posted that cause orginally i used to think there was a power limit on fwd, there is but i thought it was a lot less

I went to WSID the other week and a:

Mazda 3 MPS with 190kw / 380nm (Pwr:Weight 7.38 : 1) FWD 6sp managed a best and consistent time of 14.8; and a

Holden Monaro CV8 260kw / 500nm (Pwr:Weight 6.35 : 1) RWD 6sp managed a best of 15.2 but was usually getting about 15.6.

I went to WSID the other week and a:

Mazda 3 MPS with 190kw / 380nm (Pwr:Weight 7.38 : 1) FWD 6sp managed a best and consistent time of 14.8; and a

Holden Monaro CV8 260kw / 500nm (Pwr:Weight 6.35 : 1) RWD 6sp managed a best of 15.2 but was usually getting about 15.6.
ouch, was it a hot night out at the track? monaro should at least be in the 14's

ouch, was it a hot night out at the track? monaro should at least be in the 14's
My guess is the monaro driver didn't know what he was doing. My car can do a 15.6, no way i'd be running consistant times with a monaro.

I went to WSID the other week and a:

Mazda 3 MPS with 190kw / 380nm (Pwr:Weight 7.38 : 1) FWD 6sp managed a best and consistent time of 14.8; and a

Holden Monaro CV8 260kw / 500nm (Pwr:Weight 6.35 : 1) RWD 6sp managed a best of 15.2 but was usually getting about 15.6.

While that kinda suprises me and kinda also doesn't. Simply because Monaro's are heavy f*ckers and they'd lose a bitta power when transferring it to the rear wheels.


Probably a crappy driver as well tho, if not maybe theres something wrong with the Monaro, as I would expect it to be a bit faster.

It's was pretty cold - I was starting to shiver about 11.30pm when we decided to leave.

The MPS was getting a fair bit of wheel spin off the line whereas the Monaro hooked up and went, frequently chirping 2nd and kicking out a tad. I know because I was taking note and they each did about 4-5 passes because the Monaro's times were puzzling and unexpected. I agree though, the Monaro should have definitely been in the 14's.

FYI 2005 Motor mag stated the cv8 having a 0-400m time of 14.55 which is slower than
an SS at 14.43.

It's was pretty cold - I was starting to shiver about 11.30pm when we decided to leave.

The MPS was getting a fair bit of wheel spin off the line whereas the Monaro hooked up and went, frequently chirping 2nd and kicking out a tad. I know because I was taking note and they each did about 4-5 passes because the Monaro's times were puzzling and unexpected. I agree though, the Monaro should have definitely been in the 14's.

One cheap and ezy way to fix the Monaro.....EDIT :)

Seriously though, low 15's does seem a tad slow for the beast but like its been said previously, a lot comes down to the drivers ability expecially in a manual. The cold temps would definitely have helped the MPS.

FYI 2005 Motor mag stated the cv8 having a 0-400m time of 14.55 which is slower than
an SS at 14.43.

Could prob be put down to extra body weight.

Monaro = Kerb weight 1708kg
SS = Kerb weight 1654kg

Just for giggles: Mitsubishi 380 VRX Auto = 1670kg :shock: