Has anybody run a 380 on Shell Optimax Extreme (or V-Power now) with good results? I did a while back and noticed absolutely no significant gains, much to my disappointment considering my previous '97 Magna loved it and went like a rocket! That was manual and my 380 is auto. And even 98 Optimax and other 98s have no little impact.
Any ideas anybody?

If you want to feel the benefits of a higher octane fuel, get your timing advanced a few degrees.

Thanks for that. I'll suss it out.

If you want to feel the benefits of a higher octane fuel, get your timing advanced a few degrees.

Agreed!

Has anybody run a 380 on Shell Optimax Extreme (or V-Power now) with good results? I did a while back and noticed absolutely no significant gains, much to my disappointment considering my previous '97 Magna loved it and went like a rocket! That was manual and my 380 is auto. And even 98 Optimax and other 98s have no little impact.
Any ideas anybody?
That's funny because 3rd gen magnas aren't fitted with a knock sensor and so can't advance their timing at all to the octane rating of the fuel that's in them.

See timing thread.

The book says 91, so don't waste your money on premium fuel if your car is standard. It's written there for a reason.

Has anybody run a 380 on Shell Optimax Extreme (or V-Power now) with good results? I did a while back and noticed absolutely no significant gains, much to my disappointment considering my previous '97 Magna loved it and went like a rocket! That was manual and my 380 is auto. And even 98 Optimax and other 98s have no little impact.
Any ideas anybody?


V-Power is 98 octane, not 100.. V-Power is the new name for Optimax. Same fuel new name

Extreme is the 100 octane stuff....

Mitus claims different elapsed times over 400 metres - about .2/.3 second difference. I can find the claims and post them if you like. The 380 is tuned for different fuels.

Thanks guys for your feedback.
Another thing that occured to me is that my Magna had a full extractor setup, which may have made a difference with the Extreme - whereas my 380 is completely standard (Wife said no more noisey cars)
Something I just noticed today (I filled up with Optimax/V-Power 98 yesterday), the economy gauge shows a much lower reading now. Average on other fuels was between 10.0 and 10.5 l/100km. So far I'm getting as low as 9.7 doing the same driving.

That's funny because 3rd gen magnas aren't fitted with a knock sensor and so can't advance their timing at all to the octane rating of the fuel that's in them.

Perhaps "a rocket" is over doing it... I just meant when putting the foot down, there was definately more power to be had which I could not find when using other fuels.
For a few seconds I hit 200kph on the M7 which I could never get close too (with road & traffic conditions, etc) on regular fuels.

Shell V-Power Extreme = 100 octane w/ 5% Ethanol
Shell V-Power = 98 Octane (No Ethanol)
Shell Unleaded = 95 Octane (No Ethanol)

I got 30km extra outta the 98 stuff from the 95.. This is in a Civic though.. which isn't a proper test because I guess I may have let the fuel light stay on a lil longer or something!

Power wise.. No real difference.. but the Civic LOVED the 100 octane stuff.. Power delivery through the rev range did feel smoother.. But yeah.. I guess its all up to the car!

SuFz :rant:

Perhaps "a rocket" is over doing it... I just meant when putting the foot down, there was definately more power to be had which I could not find when using other fuels.
For a few seconds I hit 200kph on the M7 which I could never get close too (with road & traffic conditions, etc) on regular fuels.
Oh ok, cool. :)

Shell V-Power Extreme = 100 octane w/ 5% Ethanol
Shell V-Power = 98 Octane (No Ethanol)
Shell Unleaded = 95 Octane (No Ethanol)

I got 30km extra outta the 98 stuff from the 95.. This is in a Civic though.. which isn't a proper test because I guess I may have let the fuel light stay on a lil longer or something!

Power wise.. No real difference.. but the Civic LOVED the 100 octane stuff.. Power delivery through the rev range did feel smoother.. But yeah.. I guess its all up to the car!

SuFz :rant:

Yes, everyone I know who tried Extreme, all said it was awesome in their car. That's why I was pretty upset when it did nothing in my 380, considering it costs about 13 cents a litre more.
Also, I tried that United fuel, which has 95 octane 10% ethanol for 2 cents a litre cheaper than regular 91 octane fuel, and it did nothing for me. Even their Boost98 (98/10%) did little, though its the cheapest 98 octane around. Maybe good for economy, but not for power.

Yes, everyone I know who tried Extreme, all said it was awesome in their car. That's why I was pretty upset when it did nothing in my 380, considering it costs about 13 cents a litre more.
Also, I tried that United fuel, which has 95 octane 10% ethanol for 2 cents a litre cheaper than regular 91 octane fuel, and it did nothing for me. Even their Boost98 (98/10%) did little, though its the cheapest 98 octane around. Maybe good for economy, but not for power.
You can't really expect much of a boost tho in power just from a couple octane ratings in your fuel. I think the new Toyota Aurion gains 4kW at the flywheel from 98 ron compared to 91 ron. You would not notice 4kW at the flywheel.

You can't really expect much of a boost tho in power just from a couple octane ratings in your fuel. I think the new Toyota Aurion gains 4kW at the flywheel from 98 ron compared to 91 ron. You would not notice 4kW at the flywheel.

Agreed. It would be naive at best, to expect good power in a car just from fuel choice and octane.

These figures are from a 2005 Mitsu marketing document so the rival comparisons are to older models.

MMAL TESTING
0-100km/hr 0-400m 60-80km/hr 80-100km/hr 80-120km/hr
380 (91 RON) 7.76 15.6 2.57 3.1 6.28
380 (95+ RON)* 7.6 15.49 2.24 2.75 5.6
Commodore (91) 7.84 15.55 2.76 2.77 5.43
Falcon (91) 8.47 16.11 2.49 3.08 5.89


EDIT: Sorry, can't get the table to line up...

Grubco, how many k's has ur car done?

overall my car performs better on the 98+ octanes but on the 100ron it still performs the same but is very grumpy at idle etc. On a newer model car it might make a bit more power but nothing as noticable as on mine.

Grubco, how many k's has ur car done?

Are you asking about the Magna I mentioned, or the 380? I traded the Magna a few months ago. It was 159,000km and the 380 is about 9,500km.
Thanks for the info. I'm still seeing good figures (economy display) at the moment, so I'll stay with 98 for a while.

These figures are from a 2005 Mitsu marketing document so the rival comparisons are to older models.

MMAL TESTING
0-100km/hr 0-400m 60-80km/hr 80-100km/hr 80-120km/hr
380 (91 RON) 7.76 15.6 2.57 3.1 6.28
380 (95+ RON)* 7.6 15.49 2.24 2.75 5.6
Commodore (91) 7.84 15.55 2.76 2.77 5.43
Falcon (91) 8.47 16.11 2.49 3.08 5.89


EDIT: Sorry, can't get the table to line up...

Hmmm. That's not bad up at the fast end of the scale! And are these times based on a manual? Cos a manual would be quicker than an auto.
Is your 380 a manual? I'm curious as to how much punchier a manual would be. Mine's auto, which I got so my wife could drive it, but I really miss the feel of a manual.

Those times are for an auto.

Quote from the same source:
The power, the strong mid-range torque and the transmission ratios all work together, contributing to the highly competitive vehicle road test performance results. MMAL’s test results show the entry A/T 380 model outperforms its equivalent local competitors, yet returns superior fuel economy.

The reason I asked about km was that in my experience I found the 3.8L very lifeless at low km and it wasn't until 5-6k that the engine started to really perform, particularly in regard to torque.
Now I'm really happy with it and feel it has the right blend of power and torque that's accessible.
I use Vortex 98 fairly regularly and subjectively believe I can feel the car more responsive. If you had done less K's in yours I would have believed it was just a tight engine.

LOL, mine is an auto which I bought over a manual for the same reasons... women!

Mitus claims different elapsed times over 400 metres - about .2/.3 second difference. I can find the claims and post them if you like. The 380 is tuned for different fuels.

Absolutely correct you are. I cant remember where I read it but at one stge there were two sets of performance figures quoted. One with regular 91 RON and the other with the 95 RON fuel used. Difference in performance was small but nonetheless there was a slight betterment in 0-100 and 400 metre times.

Welcome back, Veearex.

Welcome back, Veearex.

Cheers,

Havent gone anywhere, just not posting much.

What fuel you using on yours? I am back to regular 91 crap. Filled with BP ultimate for one tank and noticed bugger all difference.

Mainly 95-98 RON while fuel is cheap. I'd rather use the better fuel when I can, although it's hard to feel any difference but I think it's there.

The reason I asked about km was that in my experience I found the 3.8L very lifeless at low km and it wasn't until 5-6k that the engine started to really perform, particularly in regard to torque.
LOL, mine is an auto which I bought over a manual for the same reasons... women!

Hmmm, okay. That probably explains why I noticed nothing from the Extreme 100 (I probably had around 3,000 at that time). But now that I can see some improvement - and especially while fuel prices are looking good - I'll stay with the 98 for a while.
As for transmissions, it would be nice (if the money were there) to leave the current 380 to the wife and go out and buy one of those new Ralliart things!

Slightly off topic, but I filled up at Liberty with standard fuel (it was 20 cents a litre cheaper than premium) today as I needed to. Normally I try and use Saff, United, Caltex or Shell in that order for the car to run well.

I hadn't filled up with Liberty before but I was absolutely disgusted. Thirty seconds after driving off and accelerating it was pinging and it never pinged before (maybe slightly if it was fully loaded up a steepish hill under hard acceleration in a high gear!) on standard fuel. Have others had problems with this fuel, or am I just unlucky to have a bad batch?

Isn't the liberty recommended at minimum 95 octane for the 2.5L? My brothers liberty has 95 recommended, and its not the turbo 2.5 either.

Isn't the liberty recommended at minimum 95 octane for the 2.5L? My brothers liberty has 95 recommended, and its not the turbo 2.5 either.
From the way I read it I think he's referring to the privately owned Liberty Fuel Station chain. I never fill up there, though they're one of few who offer ethanol blended fuels - STAY AWAY!

Ok, should have read clser. Thx :)

I haven't had any pinging yet, but I never go to those no-name servos... you never know what they put in their fuel. And after trying some tanks of 10% Ethanol fuel, I'm not a fan of that stuff either.

From the way I read it I think he's referring to the privately owned Liberty Fuel Station chain. I never fill up there, though they're one of few who offer ethanol blended fuels - STAY AWAY!

Liberty only has E10 available at some sites, and not at the one I went to. I think its got a lot to do where they get their fuel from, as they are a wholesaler! so by how its running its most likely BP fuel or possible mobil...

United does have E10 and that runs great, although SAFF 95 is still the best! - thats their normal fuel (and they have 98 as well :D) They have something thats called bi-tron added to both the fuels, so cars requiring super don't need additives. I think its like an upper cylinder lubricant or something. I think they use Caltex fuel or something as their base, all I know is that its done at the refineries and the different companies have their different additives added to it?

Their biodiesel is up to 30 percent biodiesel and diesels seem to run quieter on it.

I find the ethanol blends actually run better. There's very few cars that can't use it due to their components (like fuel lines etc), and thats none of the Australian cars. There's a website that lists what can and can't use it, but I can't remember the web address.

I usually run PULP in my car, although it does run fine on Caltex and shell 92, (pings slightly on Mobil) and chronically on BP which is only 91.

Its a fact of life, most fuel will eventually be ethanol blend! It does supposedly increase the octane of the fuel slightly, and it is comparatively cheaper.

I've only tried the United fuels (their 95 & 98), which I didn't like. But I've never heard of SAFF. Is that in NSW?
I wouldn't mind finding a good E10, if anyone can recommend one that's been great for them, 'cos it is the future of fuel.

[QUOTE=Grubco]I've only tried the United fuels (their 95 & 98), which I didn't like. But I've never heard of SAFF. Is that in NSW?

They're pretty much just SA, but there are a couple in NSW. SAFF is actually the 'South Australian Farmers Federation'. I actually drive across adelaide to get the fuel, one because its an excuse for a good drive, and secondly, the cost of driving there is made up for with 95 octane costing the same as 92 (sometimes less). I actually got 98 octane for 92 price the last time I went there! I seem to get better fuel economy out of it, about the same as I get with normal pulp with flashlube which makes me suspect that the additive is very similar to flashlube (both of which allow running an old car that requires super)


http://www.farmersfuel.com.au/Site_Locations.html

The book says 91, so don't waste your money on premium fuel if your car is standard. It's written there for a reason.

thats a silly thing to say

std unleaded fuel is less refined and dirty you get about 20000km out of a fuel filter before it turns black'

if running 95 98 or 100 the filter can last up to 60 to 80000 km before turning black

the better fuels also keep the injectors cleaner

thats a silly thing to say

std unleaded fuel is less refined and dirty you get about 20000km out of a fuel filter before it turns black'

if running 95 98 or 100 the filter can last up to 60 to 80000 km before turning black

the better fuels also keep the injectors cleaner

Your points are very valid but I think VR33XY was refering to performance gains rather than the overall picture.

Your points are very valid but I think VR33XY was refering to performance gains rather than the overall picture.

Well with the overall picture, you could look at it from an angle that the performance will not deteriorate as quick with the higher quality fuels even if they don't give a power gain, as the injectors and so on will stay cleaner for a longer. :D

Well with the overall picture, you could look at it from an angle that the performance will not deteriorate as quick with the higher quality fuels even if they don't give a power gain, as the injectors and so on will stay cleaner for a longer. :D

True too, but you could also look at it from this angle. The extra money at the bowser per week you would save yourself by using regular unleaded would more than pay for injector clean and service in a couple of years :bowrofl:

Depends on the quality of fuel to start with!

The advantage with SAFF and United fuel is with the ethanol added you do get a higher octane at the same price at normal ULP, the ethanol acts as a natural injector cleaner (so your car will burn cleaner for longer) and the extra additives in SAFF fuel means that you don't have to worry about any extra product at all! I guess they'll all go that way eventually (hopefully)!

On a separate issue, although I do sometimes use Woolworths fuel dockets, and I shop there, I don't agree with their bs policy on their own 'brands'. Pasta sauce is a good example, you used to be able to get a good spread of Australian sauces such as Dolmio and Raguletto, but now I see the Woolworths brand has taken over most the shelf space. Those companies have to buy shelf space so its easy for Woolworths to push them out. The price of the IMPORTED woolworths sauce which is bland is actually more than what Dolmio and Raguletto's ever were, and this is apparent in most of their 'select' range. They say its better sourced from overseas, we all know thats complete crud!

You guys, you do know there's only 2 fuel refineries in Australia right? So chances are most of the fuel we use is all the same anyway. For example, mobil fuel is BP fuel and also Caltex fuel, Shell use their own fuel but could also sell to these smaller chains too.

You guys, you do know there's only 2 fuel refineries in Australia right? So chances are most of the fuel we use is all the same anyway. For example, mobil fuel is BP fuel and also Caltex fuel, Shell use their own fuel but could also sell to these smaller chains too.

This whole fuel quality issue has historicaly nearly started wars in other forums. I remember reading a very long thread which was started over on the LS1 forums about 12 months ago and it eventually got closed because every body there seemed to be in the know :D

It made for an interesting read, I will go over and try to find the link.

This whole fuel quality issue has historicaly nearly started wars in other forums. I remember reading a very long thread which was started over on the LS1 forums about 12 months ago and it eventually got closed because every body there seemed to be in the know :D

It made for an interesting read, I will go over and try to find the link.
I don't really care about fuel battles, but it is a fact that there's 2 fuel refineries in Australia.

I don't really care about fuel battles, but it is a fact that there's 2 fuel refineries in Australia.

Not disputing that fact, I fully agree with you but its the additives that are added later that distinguish them. BP Ultimate and Mobil Synergy 8000 is the same fuel in Sydney. It all comes out of the same tank at botany and the only differences are that the additives in the fuel are added at the time of loading. The base fuel for both is the same.

The Mobil premium unleaded is also Caltex Vortex ... again only the additives are different.

Cheeers.

Not disputing that fact, I fully agree with you but its the additives that are added later that distinguish them.

Yea,by the way how much additives do they add to the fuels???????

I don't really care about fuel battles, but it is a fact that there's 2 fuel refineries in Australia.
I thought there would be more than 2 refineries...http://www.aie.org.au/melb/oct00-b1.htm

Its an old link but i cant remember hearing that any have shut down in the last 6 years. Correct me if im wrong!

Its an old link but i cant remember hearing that any have shut down in the last 6 years. Correct me if im wrong!

Yeah Pt. Stanvac refiniery (sp?) in South Australia shut down a few years back (around 2 years ago I think)

Yeah Pt. Stanvac refiniery (sp?) in South Australia shut down a few years back (around 2 years ago I think)
Ya. Shame really.

True too, but you could also look at it from this angle. The extra money at the bowser per week you would save yourself by using regular unleaded would more than pay for injector clean and service in a couple of years :bowrofl:

Correct you are, but you only fill up with PULP every 4th-5th tank and run ULP the majority of the time. :D