Hey guys

Looking at all these car audio threads have made me want to update the system in my TE... well that and the fact that I have factory speakers and a TAPE DECK!! .. Don't laugh, I've just bought the car and I need to get it up to date, starting with the sound system.

I just been down to JB and was talkin to a nice chappy down there. He recommended the Pioneer TS-A6971E 350W (80W Nom) 6x9's for the back and the TS-C1625 220W Splits for the front... I listened to a few of the different brands and I actually like the sound of the Alpine SPR-17LS 350W (70W) Splits, they seems to deliver a good punch (gee.. thats real technical) and they sound so much clearer. Same goes with the SPR-69LP 275W (55W) 6x9's.

While the splits are roughly the same price, the Alpine 6x9's are a fair bit dearer... and the guy at JB said he can do a much better deal on the Pioneer gear...

I've dabbled in car audio before, but never to the point where I was buying a "decent" system with amp etc.

Should I go with what my ears like and pay the extra for the Alpine?

Any advice would be much appreciated

In the end you will regret going for the lower quality, and will most probably end up buying the Alpine gear anyway, if you can afford it and your willing to pay for it, do it.

However I would suggest you have a look at some other equipment as well.

However I would suggest you have a look at some other equipment as well.

Do you mean other brands or are you talking about the amp/subs/HU?

and dont always listen to JB

i got an alpine sub and amp som people say it cost to much, but im happy with it. bes soundsing one i heard

You need to understand that JB hifi audio guys are paid based on what they can sell. They will always try and flog you the stuff that doesn't sell well first in an attempt to move it, and will try what they can to "Sweeten" the deal. If you've heard the alpines and they sound better, then get them. You will be sorry you didnt later.

oh... and another question.. are the direction you face your subs important?

never had subs before... Ooo0oh, I'm gettin all excited!

the direction of the sub depends on what type of music you listen to
i have mine firing backwards and yeah it does well and goes hard
i would pay the extra and buy some alpine gear
you'll be happy in the long run if you did
i've got some alpine gear (not the whole system tho) and im very happy with it
what are you looking at buying?
h/u, splits, rears, amps and subs which is the whole package
or just the h/u, splits and rears?

the direction of the sub depends on what type of music you listen to
i have mine firing backwards and yeah it does well and goes hard
i would pay the extra and buy some alpine gear
you'll be happy in the long run if you did
i've got some alpine gear (not the whole system tho) and im very happy with it
what are you looking at buying?
h/u, splits, rears, amps and subs which is the whole package
or just the h/u, splits and rears?


Definately looking at the whole package... and I don't mind if some of the pieces aren't the same brand, but I really don't want a totally "bitza" system

I listen to pretty much everything, but a lot of "Doof Doof" dance and techno

maybe go down to you local audio shop (not jb)
tell them what your after
they'll ask you your budget and give you a good price on a decent system
and shouldnt cost too much to install depends if you go custom or not

If you are getting a sub, dont worry too much about 6x9s. $90 Pioneer's will do the job fine (if you want rear speakers at all).

I didnt even know that JB sold Alpine gear, im surprised. Anyways definetely pay extra for splits that sound better. Oh and properly sound deadened and securely mounted woofers in the front doors makes a HUGE difference.

For example, my $250 Focal splits crap all over my mates $600 Focal splits all because he just slapped them in his Lancer on the stock baffle with no sound deadening...

I didnt even know that JB sold Alpine gear, im surprised. Anyways definetely pay extra for splits that sound better. Oh and properly sound deadened and securely mounted woofers in the front doors makes a HUGE difference.

yeah jb do sell alpine gear
they sell a few different brands

your 6x9's are asking for a fair bit or power if youa re only running off the head unit. if you are going to amp them later on then that's all cool. 1st rule of car audio for myself....if you like and you want it then get it. if the alpines are what youa re happy with then go for them. he is most probably trying to push pioneer because they have to sell X amount of units. always haggle too. i got $70 extra off this arvo buying sub and 6x9's in one shot with a little bit of friendly haggling.

always go with what you like best. that way you wont be unhappy. even if it means saving for a little while extra.

dont forget as well, wen u say u compared the sound to the other brands, it was all done at jb hifi, which wouldve meant u heard what, alpine/pioneer/sony/jvc/panasonic? if u went to a proper car audio place u'd hear brands like eclipse/soundstream/focal/hertz/and probably the alpines. would set them in a different ball park, and might not be quite what u can get for the money :)

one thing, if u do decide on jb hifi stuff, after listening to the rest, best time to buy is post xmas sales, but as u've heard, try listening to some of the other brands first, u may be suprised about the difference!

oh, and also atleast in the smaller car audio stores, u can actually 'hear' the sound, as i'm sure in jb hifi there was that much other noise while they played the speakers, whereas in the car audio store, u'll only hear those speakers :) no other background songs

hey dude if ur after pretty cheap prices at JB go to dandy JB and ask to talk to Richie... that guy will give u the cheapest price possible on every item they sell... my 2cents

i find Alpine are a great introduction to car audio, especially if youre not quite sure what you're looking at, dont wanna spend crazy $$$ but still get a good clean system.

i'd have a look at some of the packages they release, some big savings to be had and normally have enough to complete a whole system

go with alpine for sure.

Another view is if you are low on funds, second hand is a good way to go - second hand car audio gear is worth a fraction of what it is new - and if you research your brands well enough, you can have a $1K system for $500 or less...

Cheers
Heath Young

try ebay... if u are after cheap alpine gear. my mate got his 9855 wen it first came out for bout 450 and it was selling for over 1k at autobarn

I wouldn't worry about the rears until you really happy with the front.
Get the best splits you can afford and you will be happy.
I have recently disconnected my pioneer 6x9's to run more power to my splits by bridging my amp and I am seriously impressed with the improvement in sound quality.

Someone once said to me "Do you often go to a concert and turn your back on the band?"

That statement stuck with me and explains why your front speakers which create your soundstage are way more important and you could always add a capacitor to the stock 6x9's and that would make them play higher frequencies just for rear fill. They only cost about 50c from any electrical shop

I have recently disconnected my pioneer 6x9's to run more power to my splits by bridging my amp and I am seriously impressed with the improvement in sound quality.

Exactly what i did :)

Ok folks, another question, and you guys have been a fantastic help so far...

If I decide to install it all myself, when I am installing the head unit and speakers, should I use the existing wiring, or definately upgrade it to something a bit more substantial?

My personal thaughts would be to upgrade it wiring, but again, if this is totally unessiscary, then I won't.

Cheers

its up to wheather you upgrade the wiring or not
normally people just use the wiring thats there to wire up the audio gear and just add wire for the splits
i think some of the factory wire cause stadic to come through the speakers but im unsure of that

Heath touched on a good point re second hand gear. As soon as any car audio gear has been installed its price drops 50%. Most of my gear has been bought second hand and i refuse to pay retail for anything anymore.

In regards to Alpine at JB. Alpine strictly told JB that they were not allowed to go below certain prices as to not affect the smaller private stores that sell alpine gear. Most other gear they sell is very hard to sell in other stores as JB will happily cut the price down to just above cost. They deal in big numbers and make their profit that way. (in fact they dont make much off car audio anyway)
But this makes it hard for any other players to sell the same gear as they cant compete with their prices and cover costs. In order to keep their prices up Alpine gave JB the contract on that proviso (afaik)

So you may be able to get a better deal from alpine at smaller dealers.

personally I love alpines processors and headunits. Their older amps are top notch too.
Im not a big fan of their drivers, but that all comes down to personal preference.

In regards to wiring. If you plan to upgrade to an amp i would also upgrade the wiring (usually because you'll need to make new runs anyway. If you are just upgrading the headunit, stock speaker wiring will be fine.

Stock wires behind the headunit are fine (power etc) just upgrade the ground to go directly to the chassis as you'll get a better ground than through the stock loom

Peace

Tim

go all out on alpine mate,my whole system is alpine its bloody good and fully sick subwoofa!:D

go all out on alpine mate,my whole system is alpine its bloody good and fully sick subwoofa!:D

yeah but you also cracked a 129.1dB with 2 12" Type-S subs in a vented enclosure with 2 'very misused' MRP-M350 monoblocks, while i cracked a 139.4 with a single 10" JL in the same model car :P

but nah just kidding :P Alpine is all good and fun but there is a LOT of other stuff out there in the big audio world to consider.

Be VERY careful buying off ebay, there's probably more fake speakers on there than real ones.
Also be wary buying 2nd hand, sometimes there is a reason they are selling them other than upgrading, but definitely cheaper!...

Thanks for the PM asking my opinion on this thread - 'tis appreciated.

I think you could do alot worse than buying an all-Alpine system. As mentioned the deals are very good and represent good value.

I have an Alpine single DIN MiniDisc HU with a 1U DIN CD player/DSP (runs via Ai-Net bus) myself. I am still astounded at the clean sound out of it and it is nearly 6 years old. Most serious audio nuts will go for the Alpine decks first.

I personally do like their speakers but only in the upper side of the range. The S-Types are only just above average. I think you pay too much for what you get when there are better choices for SQ or SPL or Value out there.

For a lower-end HU, I'd only look at JVC. Excellent features, great prices, can get them at JB. I have a store manager contact at a JB's so I get things mega-cheap, but your mileage will vary. Best bet is to haggle and even buy something else in the shop and they will discount further.

Eclipse also make great HU's, but can be a bit pricey and a bit low on the features. Just make sure you get 3x RCA outputs - front, rear & sub.

Stay a mile away from Kenwood.... only the high end stuff is any good and at that pricing I would go for Alpine. Lower end Kenwood gear I have had many problems with. I'd also stay away from Sony HU's but they have improved in the last 12 months.

Pioneer I just hate the design and navigation of - always have. They are decent HU's but I'd prefer to grab the JVC for a bit less and a few more features.

Speaker-wise it is fairly much personal taste and budget based. I'd want to know how much you have to spend and what sort of styles of music you mainly listen to. If similar to Tuffy then I'd recommend something along the lines of what he has.

If you have $2-2.5K to spend we can get you a VERY decent system, but can still make you go hard for about $1500 or so.

The biggest thing is buying smart - meaning stuff that is on special or on runout. As mentioned, secondhand is always an option but speakers can be a bit hit or miss secondhand.

So yeah, give us a budget and your preferred musical tastes and I will try to put together a nice blend of components and allow for ancilliaries like cabling, deadening, materials for sub-box etc etc.

Just another thing on JB. How they work is they have a floor price and a price below that they can not go below, unless they consult the floor manager. Usually the floor manager has no idea about everything as they can not look up cost prices very fast. JB make all there money from CD's and nothing else really.

There is usually 30-40% GP in car audio for RRP. Always remember that if you buy a full system that you should get a bonus discount :D

I have an Alpine single DIN MiniDisc HU with a 1U DIN CD player/DSP (runs via Ai-Net bus) myself. I am still astounded at the clean sound out of it and it is nearly 6 years old. Most serious audio nuts will go for the Alpine decks first.

The deck that I have really become interested in is the Alpine CDA-6855R RRP $799. It seems to have everything that I could want and I like the idea of the glide touch control. MP3 is huge thing for me as all my music is in MP3 format and although I don't have an iPOD as yet, the fact that it can be fully integrated seems sensible considering the way I store my music. 3x RCA there too.



I personally do like their speakers but only in the upper side of the range. The S-Types are only just above average. I think you pay too much for what you get when there are better choices for SQ or SPL or Value out there.

I really quite like the sound of the R series speakers, especially when they were compared to Pioneer and Kicker. The ones I listened to were the SPR17-LS Splits (RRP $349, but I have seen them for about $60 less) and the SPR69-LP 6x9's (RRP $269). They pack a real punchy type sound for bass and considering I listen to mainly Electro/Dance, they seem to suit well.



Stay a mile away from Kenwood.... only the high end stuff is any good and at that pricing I would go for Alpine. Lower end Kenwood gear I have had many problems with. I'd also stay away from Sony HU's but they have improved in the last 12 months.

Pioneer I just hate the design and navigation of - always have. They are decent HU's but I'd prefer to grab the JVC for a bit less and a few more features.

I definately agree with you on the Kenwood, I'm not a fan at all and I am not really a sony fan either, I don't like the way they proprietise thier products. Pioneer I have been happy with in the past, but it's honestly time to move on.

I don't really have any experience when it comes to Amps or Subs, I've never had them before, so I don't know what I need, or what I am looking for or what is reasonable when it comes to price.

I could probably afford the $2k or a little more as long as I do things bit by bit, which essentially is not the best way of getting things discounted, but it's either cheap or in stages. I would like to do the install myself, but don't know if thats a good idea or not. If I'm doing it all in stages, then I'm sure it will be much cheaper. I just don't want to sacrifice quality for price.

Based on RRP
HU $799
Front Splits $289 (I know I can get at this price)
Rear Spk $269
So far thats about $1350 at worst case prices



So yeah, give us a budget and your preferred musical tastes and I will try to put together a nice blend of components and allow for ancilliaries like cabling, deadening, materials for sub-box etc etc.

So lets aim for the $2k mark and dance/electro/techno

Nice chap at Gary's Car Audio quoted me $240 for the 6x9's, $289 for the Splits and $700 on the HU so thats $1229 just over the phone but I'm sure I can get him to do better when I walk in the store :)

Oh, and if I'm to go in stages, where is the best place to start? HU or Speakers?

The deck that I have really become interested in is the Alpine CDA-6855R RRP $799.
Yep but I think you mean the CDA-9855R. It's nice deck, all the fruit. A good place to start.

If you can go the extra $100, the CDA-9861E will do DVD audio and video also. You do lose the RDS (radio data stream - channel names, data etc) tuner and the kick-ass Bio-Lite display. But if you want to put in screens later, the little bit you put in now is going to save you money later. It's also a bit better on the iPod side too.


I really quite like the sound of the R series speakers, especially when they were compared to Pioneer and Kicker.
Yep, they are nice but there is so many splits at the $350 price point that are better. For your musical tastes (dance/trance/techno) - I'd be going for Hertz. HSK165's are about that $350 mark and will basically rattle your head loose.

Others too look for are the Focal's at a slightly higher price bracket ($400), and some of the Oz Audio speakers too.


I definately agree with you on the Kenwood, I'm not a fan at all and I am not really a sony fan either, I don't like the way they proprietise thier products. Pioneer I have been happy with in the past, but it's honestly time to move on.
Excellent. Preaching to the converted.


I don't really have any experience when it comes to Amps or Subs, I've never had them before, so I don't know what I need, or what I am looking for or what is reasonable when it comes to price.
There are two ways you can go - 2 subs (say 2x12s) with a reasonably good amp running at 2ohm load, or a single high-output sub with huge monoblock amp.

The JBL's that Tuffy have are very good on a performance/value basis, but SQ is not their forte. Sealed boxes help but somebody likes big output..... :doubt:

Many good subs are out there, especially if you shop around looking for the ones that are not found in JB's or Strathy's. Image Dynamics IDMAX are very good, as are Digital Designs and a number of other brands. It is worth spending the money on one good sub than use two cheaper ones for about the same money.


I could probably afford the $2k or a little more as long as I do things bit by bit, which essentially is not the best way of getting things discounted, but it's either cheap or in stages.
It's a decent amount to work with. Should get a decent setup for that.


I would like to do the install myself, but don't know if thats a good idea or not. If I'm doing it all in stages, then I'm sure it will be much cheaper. I just don't want to sacrifice quality for price.
If you have an idea of wiring and soldering etc, you should do it fine. Just remember you are only working with 12V but huge amperages that can mess you up. I'd rope in Tuffy to help since he has done alot of this before.

HU - CDA-9855R = $799 but should get for $750
Splits - Hertz HSK165 = $330ish on special
Rear Spk - none for the time being... use the stockies and fade down to about 20-30% output.
Sub: Hertz HSX-300 12" - $410ish on special
Amp - 4x100WRMS Jaycar. About $300ish IIRC.

That's about $1800 worth. Add $200 for wiring and some deadening for the front doors to start with and you are about there.

The only thing you are missing then is a big monoblock amp for your sub.... and some 6x9's for the rear. The Pioneers that you see on special for $160 at JB's or Autobarn down from $200 are fine.





So lets aim for the $2k mark and dance/electro/techno[/QUOTE]