hey all i got my redback on today and the guy at the exhaust shop said it was a s**t fight getting it put on, 1st he had to cut 3inchs off the front part between the cat and the resinator then it was hitting up against the full tank after the bends but before the bolt on rear muffler so he had to bend its out, it gets better, when fitting the rear muffler the towbar was hitting it so he had to cut a bit out of the rear tow bar, he charged me alot more then i hoped for but its sounds better then the standard 1 with all the holes.
i hoped it would be alil louder (you do some of u guys complain about the noise somtimes i forget its even there), havnt really noticed much of a power change or responce change maybe in the furture it will.

Hmmm....I thought they were a straightforward boltup? :confused:

I know the Lukey one is, and i though the redback one was...

Aren't those systems supposed to be fitted? Meaning they don't need to be modified? And also, was it cat back? Because if it was you won't notice any performance increase. Cat back is basically just for a bit of extra noise.

when fitting the rear muffler the towbar was hitting it so he had to cut a bit out of the rear tow barWouldn't that compromise the structural integrity of the tow bar?

I think the guy who installed it was an idiot, cut up half your car to fit an exhaust which should be bolt on, then charged YOU more money :nuts:

they cut alil part of the end off weight reduction in a way
in regards to the pipe between cat and res there was a change in cat size towards the end of the th plus mine a 3.5 so i have a larger cat and the pipe is 4 one with a small cat
not really that much louder,like u know its there but its not that loud

']I think the guy who installed it was an idiot, cut up half your car to fit an exhaust which should be bolt on, then charged YOU more money :nuts:
i saw him put it on there was a "production screw up"

Whats the best size for a new cat?
how u mean by that mate

Aren't those systems supposed to be fitted? Meaning they don't need to be modified? And also, was it cat back? Because if it was you won't notice any performance increase. Cat back is basically just for a bit of extra noise.

They are if you get the right one for your model magna. As someone else said, the piping design changed at some point in the 3.5L magna production. I'm pretty sure there must be different versions of the Redback cat back, because when I purchased mine - they guy wanted to know what model, year & month of production. I thought it would be as simple as "3.5L magna sedan" but apparently it's not.

Sounds like the ordered the wrong one. They should have known better. Oh well its on now so long as your happy with the end result.

regards

when fitting the rear muffler the towbar was hitting it so he had to cut a bit out of the rear tow bar,

I had something similar, when under acceleration the top of the muffler would knock against the tow bar even though it was nowhere near it when the car was sitting still :confused: I wasnt charged extra to get it fixed though.

Congrats, keep the mods coming.

I hear there is more on the way.

Aren't those systems supposed to be fitted? Meaning they don't need to be modified? And also, was it cat back? Because if it was you won't notice any performance increase. Cat back is basically just for a bit of extra noise.

dude..i'd hate to say but you got rocks in ya head. to say there would be no difference putting a catback system on is ridiculous. i put this on a TH and noticed big gains, and even on my current car noticed it could be pushed a little harder.

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dude..i'd hate to say but you got rocks in ya head. to say there would be no difference putting a catback system on is ridiculous. i put this on a TH and noticed big gains, and even on my current car noticed it could be pushed a little harder.
Don't think I got rocks in my head man... It's pretty much the same for all cars, EVO's, Subies etc. Cat backs don't give any power increase, they just increase noise. That's my opinion.

Don't think I got rocks in my head man... It's pretty much the same for all cars, EVO's, Subies etc. Cat backs don't give any power increase, they just increase noise. That's my opinion.

As far as I'm aware, cat-back pipe upgrades are one of the first, and most popular upgrades on the vast majority of factory turbo cars - and it's widely regarded as a worthwhile performance mod, particularly on cars that were designed to meet certain noise/emissions level standards.

To use your example of "subies", ask any WRX owner you know what the first performance mod they did, and I can almost guarantee it would either be a dump pipe / exhaust upgrade, or front mount upgrade.

If you are talking specifically about Magnas, then that's a different story - the factory piping is more than adequate for most peoples requirements.

Yes, exhaust upgrade. I don't know if subies are different, maybe I shouldn't of used them as an example so I'll use EVO's. Just upgrading the cat back section of the exhaust doesn't do anything at all for power, all it does is give the car a nicer note. However, if you upgrade the exhaust from turbo back some people have seen gains up to a 50kW gain from that alone. If you don't believe me, sign up to any EVO forum or ask a car tuner.

Yes, exhaust upgrade. I don't know if subies are different, maybe I shouldn't of used them as an example so I'll use EVO's. Just upgrading the cat back section of the exhaust doesn't do anything at all for power, all it does is give the car a nicer note. However, if you upgrade the exhaust from turbo back some people have seen gains up to a 50kW gain from that alone. If you don't believe me, sign up to any EVO forum or ask a car tuner.

So is turbo back just classed as replacing the dump pipe? or is it everything from the turbo back (ie: dump pipe, cat, cat back). I've always thought that a "turbo back" upgrade replaced everything from the turbo outlet flange --> rear muffler tip/s.

I don't doubt you - just wondering if we're on the same page?

Yes we're on the same page. Replacement of the whole exhaust from the turbo back including cat, muffler and dump pipe (I think dump pipe but don't quote me) It's not uncommon for an EVO owner to gain 30-50kW out of such a mod.

Yes we're on the same page. Replacement of the whole exhaust from the turbo back including cat, muffler and dump pipe (I think dump pipe but don't quote me) It's not uncommon for an EVO owner to gain 30-50kW out of such a mod.

I not surprised that it's possible to gain that much from a full turbo back upgrade, but I'm a little surprised by what you're saying that if you only replace the cat back - there is only a fraction of that gain.

Those EVO's must have frightfully restrictive dump pipes (the bit immediately after the turbo, not the tip that comes out of the rear muffler).

Don't think I got rocks in my head man... It's pretty much the same for all cars, EVO's, Subies etc. Cat backs don't give any power increase, they just increase noise. That's my opinion.
Feel free to be wrong...... I just put the lukey on the back and noticed a difference. Don't know if it's a "power Gain", but certainly much more responsive.

Why we coparing EVO's to Magnas ??

The Magna is now turbo or something ?

There would be someform of difference between standard exhaust and upgrading cat-back but obviosuly not as much as doing a full turbo back exhaust on a turbo car.

Now, where can i buy one of these new Magna turbos we are comparing the EVO to ?

I replaced everything EXCEPT the cats... and there was definately a noticeable gain. Although I put on pacies at the same time, I have no doubt that the 2.5" mandrel bent system is an arm and a leg above the standard system.

The pipe diameter of the standard system was around 2.3" in some places.

I really wish I had it dyno'd when I made the change.

My manta system (not sure if this is the same as redback... only had a part no. when we ordered it) has no issues with my tow bar... or my rear bumper. The muffler has a dumped tip (much like the standard system) to avoid burning the fcuk out of the bumper. Kinda gives a stock look too.

The whole system bolted up without a fuss as well... perhaps I was just lucky? The only modification we made was replacing the mid section muffler with a big slab of 2.5" piping.

:D

Feel free to be wrong...... I just put the lukey on the back and noticed a difference. Don't know if it's a "power Gain", but certainly much more responsive.
Sure it's not just extra noise you're noticing? And perhaps the fact that you've just spent good money on it so you're imagining things that aren't actually there? If you're happy with it champ that's all that matters.


I not surprised that it's possible to gain that much from a full turbo back upgrade, but I'm a little surprised by what you're saying that if you only replace the cat back - there is only a fraction of that gain.

Those EVO's must have frightfully restrictive dump pipes (the bit immediately after the turbo, not the tip that comes out of the rear muffler).
Don't know what to tell ya mate. Read up on EVO performance upgrades for yourself.

Sure it's not just extra noise you're noticing? And perhaps the fact that you've just spent good money on it so you're imagining things that aren't actually there? If you're happy with it champ that's all that matters.

I sure as hell wasn't imagining the gain. Sure I whacked pacies on as well, but I'm sure I read somewhere that it's been proven that dropping the restrictive standard muffler and replacing it with a better flowing one (i.e. Lukey Ultra Flow) gives a gain?

Well, not so much a 'gain', but it frees up the ponies that were already there.

You wont notice much performance gain just sticking a normal free flow muffler and 2.5" piping on a VRX as they already have a decent free flow muffler, but in a standard Magna or a Sports, the rear mufflers are CRAP! You will get quite a bit of power from just changing the muffler alone. EzBoy (i think it was him) put a photo up ages ago of what they were like. Cant believe they even flow at all.

My impression is the gain comes from the muffler, rather than the 2.5" piping. execs have a very restricive muffler, replacing it with a aftermarket straight-through, or a sports/VRX muffler gives good gains.

I myself drive a TJ sports, and I'm still weighing up whether its worth going to 2.5" piping, I'm leaning towards just getting pacies and a nice muffler (e.g magnaflow) for noise. Of course down the track when/if I do more extensive mods like a cam change, the exhaust piping will probably need to be upgraded, but my impression is for a near-stock magna, the factory 2.4" piping is sufficient. Yes, I realise it reduces to 2.3" at some point(s).

My impression is the gain comes from the muffler, rather than the 2.5" piping. execs have a very restricive muffler, replacing it with a aftermarket straight-through, or a sports/VRX muffler gives good gains.

I myself drive a TJ sports, and I'm still weighing up whether its worth going to 2.5" piping, I'm leaning towards just getting pacies and a nice muffler (e.g magnaflow) for noise. Of course down the track when/if I do more extensive mods like a cam change, the exhaust piping will probably need to be upgraded, but my impression is for a near-stock magna, the factory 2.4" piping is sufficient. Yes, I realise it reduces to 2.3" at some point(s).
You'll find mate, if you upgrade the whole exhaust system you will notice a good difference in torque increase (well I did anyway over the stock Ralliart exhaust) I had pacies put on at the same time tho. You could get away with just replacing the muffler tho until you decide to do more mods, then a full 2.5" would be beneficial.

Don't think I got rocks in my head man... It's pretty much the same for all cars, EVO's, Subies etc. Cat backs don't give any power increase, they just increase noise. That's my opinion.
o.k...well as far as i see it, the redback cat back does include the rear muffler...which of course is a sports muffler not much different in performance to that from a Sports or VRX. and i am sure as **** that they have more power than a stocko...or if you like more power is freed up by this mod. I also have pacies and on their own before the exhaust upgrade was only a very subtle differance from prior to fitting them. in fact, so little it would of not been worth the money if the exhaust upgrade wasn't done.

As Chisolm said most of the gain comes from the muffler when upgrading in an exec/verada. The tri flow is really restrictive. Not much in it an a sports/VRX/Ralliart/Gtvi

You'll find mate, if you upgrade the whole exhaust system you will notice a good difference in torque increase (well I did anyway over the stock Ralliart exhaust) I had pacies put on at the same time tho. You could get away with just replacing the muffler tho until you decide to do more mods, then a full 2.5" would be beneficial.

Hmm that's the problem, you put in your pacies at the same time, so the increase you got might have been almost soley due to the them. I just wish I knew for certain, I will be seriously pissed if upgrade to 2.5" piping for no power gain.

Has anyone here done a before and after dyno of a sports/VRX/RALLIART just changing to a 2.5" but without doing headers at the same time?

kit to be sprayed
dumping it just gotta get sum top strut bushed and rims




Congrats, keep the mods coming.

I hear there is more on the way.

50kw keep pulling




Yes, exhaust upgrade. I don't know if subies are different, maybe I shouldn't of used them as an example so I'll use EVO's. Just upgrading the cat back section of the exhaust doesn't do anything at all for power, all it does is give the car a nicer note. However, if you upgrade the exhaust from turbo back some people have seen gains up to a 50kW gain from that alone. If you don't believe me, sign up to any EVO forum or ask a car tuner.

As Chisolm said most of the gain comes from the muffler when upgrading in an exec/verada. The tri flow is really restrictive. Not much in it an a sports/VRX/Ralliart/Gtvi
i own an exec and i feel no more power, breaths alil better under 3000rpm and a slight drone on throttle

Hmm that's the problem, you put in your pacies at the same time, so the increase you got might have been almost soley due to the them. I just wish I knew for certain, I will be seriously pissed if upgrade to 2.5" piping for no power gain.

Has anyone here done a before and after dyno of a sports/VRX/RALLIART just changing to a 2.5" but without doing headers at the same time?

pretty soon i will have a before and after with addition of hi flow cat and catback system. and after again with cams and emanage. so if ya not in a hurry keep an eye out

50kw keep pulling
It is not uncommon for a late model EVO to gain 30-50kW from a turbo back exhaust alone. Hell, exhaust, EBC and a tune will see you over 200kWATW. So yeah, whatever buddy. You don't know ****. :)

It is not uncommon for a late model EVO to gain 30-50kW from a turbo back exhaust alone. Hell, exhaust, EBC and a tune will see you over 200kWATW. So yeah, whatever buddy. You don't know ****. :)

yeah sounds about right :)
you will see a gain in KW if you get a full turbo back exhaust which has to be at least 3"
so yeah Disciple is right

yeah sounds about right :)
you will see a gain in KW if you get a full turbo back exhaust which has to be at least 3"
so yeah Disciple is right
Of course I am. :bowrofl: Thank you. :P

its good that this is a magna club not an evo club then hey




Of course I am. :bowrofl: Thank you. :P

its good that this is a magna club not an evo club then hey
Aww. Don't take it to heart champ, this is the interweb remember.

Sure it's not just extra noise you're noticing? And perhaps the fact that you've just spent good money on it so you're imagining things that aren't actually there? If you're happy with it champ that's all that matters.


Don't know what to tell ya mate. Read up on EVO performance upgrades for yourself.
no extra noise noticed at all. maybe you've convinced youself that the extractors / headers were worth doubling the price of your exhaust?

So far, all your evidence is from turbo figures. It's cool that you obviously have a good knowledge of the evo, but have you got figures to prove no gain with the magna?

It's interesting to note (And if anyone knows different, please correct me) that there's an 8 kw difference in the tj, between the exec. and the VRX, but from my memory, the rear muffler was the only mech. difference.
If there are any other differences, let me know what they were.

I guess disciple has more experience when it comes to pull, don't ya "champ" ?

no extra noise noticed at all. maybe you've convinced youself that the extractors / headers were worth doubling the price of your exhaust?

So far, all your evidence is from turbo figures. It's cool that you obviously have a good knowledge of the evo, but have you got figures to prove no gain with the magna?

It's interesting to note (And if anyone knows different, please correct me) that there's an 8 kw difference in the tj, between the exec. and the VRX, but from my memory, the rear muffler was the only mech. difference.
If there are any other differences, let me know what they were.

I guess disciple has more experience when it comes to pull, don't ya "champ" ?
Replacing the rear muffler in an exec will give a gain obviously as that's the main difference between exec models and the sports and VRX models (aswell as a mild ECU tweak for the added airflow of the muffler) I'm not debating this. The fact that I never mentioned anything about a muffler anywhere I thought might of given that away, I stated that replacing the cat back (retaining the original muffler) will not give any power increases and I'd encourage someone to prove me wrong.

BTW, I've got a gf so I don't need to pull at all, champ. :D

correct me if i'm wrong, but when you put a Cat back system on a car dont you usually change the muffler? thats what i have always beleived.
Not having a go or anything, just maybe thats what everyone was getting at.

But everyone i have talked to about power gains from a muffler reckon you could get "about" 10 Kw, but i dunno about that.

correct me if i'm wrong, but when you put a Cat back system on a car dont you usually change the muffler? thats what i have always beleived.
Not having a go or anything, just maybe thats what everyone was getting at.

But everyone i have talked to about power gains from a muffler reckon you could get "about" 10 Kw, but i dunno about that.
Yeah you're right in a sense. The pre-made cat back systems do come with a new muffler because that's where the extra flow and power comes from, it has nothing to do with the actual cat back piping, and that's what I was getting at. I was never debating that putting a high flowing muffler on an exec will or won't get you any power.

Oh and btw xman333, you said you put a new lukey muffler on but didn't notice any difference in the noise it made? That's a bit hard to believe champ. But hey, if you're happy with it that's all that matters.

Oh and btw xman333, you said you put a new lukey muffler on but didn't notice any difference in the noise it made? That's a bit hard to believe champ. But hey, if you're happy with it that's all that matters.

Virtually no extra noise... beleive what you like. Feel free to be wrong.

What idiot would replace the cat back piping, then leave the tri flow muffler?
Mate there comes a time when you just have to say to yourself, "I think I just made myself look like a coq".

I would have to agree with you..... If you change the cat back system, but use the original muffler, you wont experience a power gain. However, you wont experience much difference in sound either (which is what you were saying you'd acheive by changing the piping, WITHOUT changing the muffler?????)

original 2.5 inch piping will suffice, unless you get some other fairly intense engine mods. Replacing your original piping with PRESS BENT 2.5 would just be useless, because that's what's already there.

But what sort of tosser would do that, eh CHAMP?

Well the original piping isn't 2.5", it's about 2.3-2.4 so replacing that would obviously make more noise wouldn't it? Your accounting for the lukey muffler I just thought was strange because it basically goes against everything anyone else has ever said about the lukey muffler and that is it makes a bit of extra noise down low, not much, but really opens up when you sink the boot into it. Maybe yours is just a freak one that makes no extra noise at all, who knows. Maybe some people might just want to spent under $200 on some cat back piping to get some extra noise while retaining the stock muffler. Not everyone wants to spend heaps of money on everything, so if such a person is a "tosser" then again, that's your opinion, champ.

So here we are, you've just argued with me for about 3 or 4 posts, then come to realisation of what I actually said and you are now agreeing with me. Maybe you should read things better in future champ. I don't think it's fair for people on this forum to be constantly bombarded with dud information which is what I think you are still providing.

Cat back systems really depend on what type of Magna you have to begin with. Like I've already said, if you have an Exec a cat back will give a bit of a gain, but that's because of the muffler, not the piping, all the piping does is make a bit of extra noise. On a Sport, VRX or Ralliart, a cat back system is useless in terms of power because those model cars already have the high flowing muffler to begin with. You see what I'm sayin now champ?

Well the original piping isn't 2.5", it's about 2.3-2.4 so replacing that would obviously make more noise wouldn't it?

Actually no.

I purchased a redback cat back exhaust off Ebay, and the first thing I did was rip off the factoy exec rear muffler, and replace it with the bolt on rear section from the Redback system.

This made a significant difference to the sound of the car (more in terms of "note" than volume - but it was abit louder). When I eventually got around to replacing the rest of the factory exhaust, I was expecting the car to be alot louder than with just the muffler fitted.

To my surprise - there was no discerable difference to the sound level between factory cat -> rear muffler piping, and redback (2.5" mendrel bent) cat -> rear muffler piping.

So I guess that really throws some doubt on your theory that cat-back systems "only increase noise", which you have so vocally forced on everyone throught this thread.

BB, you said the first thing you did was replace the rear section right? Meaning the piping from the cat to the rear muffler and including the rear muffler? If that's true then it's pretty hard to say that replacing only that pipe did or didn't make any noise difference because the muffler definately makes more noise right? (not a lot, but it does) You then changed the part of your exhaust from the headers to the cat yeah? And are saying that didn't make much diff to the noise? But that's not the cat back so it's kinda irellavant isn't it? The fact that there is a noise increase, no matter how small it may be, supports that part of my opinion. So what are we arguing about? If people wanna continue to believe that cat back systems and K&N panel filters are huge power mods then that's ok, I'm just trying to show the other side of the story. There was just a thread made about a CAI on a second gen and the thread maker states "I noticed a HUGE difference in power, it's faster and revs out 500rpm more" This is the kinda stuff people read and go "woah, what a mod!" and the other side is never told because it's "flaming" or "forcing an opinion" People will always make their own mind up in the end anyway.

There was just a thread made about a CAI on a second gen and the thread maker states "I noticed a HUGE difference in power, it's faster and revs out 500rpm more" This is the kinda stuff people read and go "woah, what a mod!" and the other side is never told because it's "flaming" or "forcing an opinion" People will always make their own mind up in the end anyway.

i noticed a good difference when fitting my cai, the stock 2nd gen feed from the headlight therefore it's strangled. Also made about 30-40km's extra per tank without changing my driving style.

In terms of flow your only as strong as your weakest link, therefore the muffler is a restriction and so is the downsizing of the stock catback piping but also it's irrelevent if still feeding from stock headers... You should notice a minimal difference from changing the muffler due to it's design and it should be louder.

In the end the engine isn't going to be needing pump out extra exhaust gases becuase you've changed your cat back piping so it probably won't make much difference.

Do your own research make your own decisions

hey guys ive done about 2000k since thursday after the redback was fitted and all that i have noticed was its revs alil easier now going though the gears easier i dnt think ive use 5th gear so much, a slight drone not really that much louder prob the same noise from when my car had a hole in its exhaust, my fuel economy has droped in the city to 11.3

i think im gonna take out my lil resinator

i noticed a good difference when fitting my cai, the stock 2nd gen feed from the headlight therefore it's strangled. Also made about 30-40km's extra per tank without changing my driving style.

In terms of flow your only as strong as your weakest link, therefore the muffler is a restriction and so is the downsizing of the stock catback piping but also it's irrelevent if still feeding from stock headers... You should notice a minimal difference from changing the muffler due to it's design and it should be louder.

In the end the engine isn't going to be needing pump out extra exhaust gases becuase you've changed your cat back piping so it probably won't make much difference.

Do your own research make your own decisions
I noticed a different noise when I put a pod on my old TR and thought it made a difference to power but was probably more wishful thinking than anything, but mine was a 4cyl and yours is a v6 so it's not the same. The rest of what you said I completely agree with. Changing the cat back will make a bit more noise due to the muffler and larger diameter pipe, but is not really doing anything for performance (bar like I said the gain from the muffler on a an exec or similair model). A full exhaust with extractors is the way to go if you want noticable power gains.

BB, you said the first thing you did was replace the rear section right? Meaning the piping from the cat to the rear muffler and including the rear muffler?

Wrong, and no......

I replaced the rear muffler section. Meaning I unbolted the old muffler (at the 3 bolt flange just infront of the rear axle), and bolted the new muffler on. Piping from the catalytic converter to the rear muffler, or "cat back" piping, remained OEM for some time.


If that's true then it's pretty hard to say that replacing only that pipe did or didn't make any noise difference because the muffler definately makes more noise right? (not a lot, but it does)

As above, I initially replaced only the "muffler section" of the exhaust, which the rear muffler, and about 1 foot of piping before the muffler where it bends up and over the rear axle. As previously stated - this made a significant difference to the sound the car made.


You then changed the part of your exhaust from the headers to the cat yeah?

No, I then changed the part of the exhaust from the "cat back", as well as having the cat upgraded to a 2.5" high flowing model, and RPW headers were fitted at the same time (they go from the engine to the cat).


And are saying that didn't make much diff to the noise?

It made no difference to the volume of the car that I could notice.


But that's not the cat back...

Yes it is.....


...so it's kinda irellavant isn't it?

I don't believe so - otherwise I wouldn't have posted it.


The fact that there is a noise increase, no matter how small it may be, supports that part of my opinion.

As above, the was "no difference to the volume of the car that I could notice".


So what are we arguing about? If people wanna continue to believe that cat back systems and K&N panel filters are huge power mods then that's ok, I'm just trying to show the other side of the story. There was just a thread made about a CAI on a second gen and the thread maker states "I noticed a HUGE difference in power, it's faster and revs out 500rpm more" This is the kinda stuff people read and go "woah, what a mod!" and the other side is never told because it's "flaming" or "forcing an opinion" People will always make their own mind up in the end anyway.

Firstly, I'm not arguing. I'm trying to contribute to a thread about Redback exhaust components, based on my personal experience with said product. I get the distinct impression you don't have any personal experience with "cat-back" exhaust upgrades, and as such, I find it hard to understand why you insist on disputing everyone elses opinions on the subject.

Secondly - I have never stated that any mod I have had done to my car (with the exception of the Twin Turbo install) has made "a HUGE difference in power, it's faster and revs out 500rpm more".

I appreciate that you are trying to let people know that there are "alternatives", but do you really need to keep rubbing peoples noses in your opinions?? Everyone read your first post on the topic, yes people disputed your claims - they had every right to. You admitted it yourself - the entire foundation of your argument is based on what you have read on an Evolution forum. I think its time you let this one go.

Now I'm confused because you first say that you replaced the muffler and a foot of pipe behind the muffler which made a difference to the noise, then replaced the piping from the cat to that point? Am I right so far? I'm lost I think cause I think you then say replacing the piping from the cat to the muffler made no difference which we were never talking about anyway (I asked if it would make the noise louder replacing that piping and you've proved it wouldn't from your personal experience) That's all good because my whole thing I'm on about is that just replacing the pipe alone from the cat back retaining the stock muffler won't do jack. The gain and noise is in the muffler (albeit a small one) But I've already said this 3 times. I must be going nuts. :nuts:

my whole thing I'm on about is that just replacing the pipe alone from the cat back retaining the stock muffler won't do jack.

Who the hell drops the piping but keeps the muffler?

Man, sorry, but that sounds really silly. If you can find one member on AMC who has replaced the piping and kept the standard muffler on, I'll do a handstand.

Why would you rave on about it if no ones done it?

:bowrofl:

if ur gonna drop the pipes u may as go all out,
im like this exhaust i put on its not over the top but i think i may take the small resinator out just for a lil bit more of a note



QUOTE=FROGi]Who the hell drops the piping but keeps the muffler?

Man, sorry, but that sounds really silly. If you can find one member on AMC who has replaced the piping and kept the standard muffler on, I'll do a handstand.

Why would you rave on about it if no ones done it?

:bowrofl:[/QUOTE]

That's all good because my whole thing I'm on about is that just replacing the pipe alone from the cat back retaining the stock muffler won't do jack. The gain and noise is in the muffler (albeit a small one) But I've already said this 3 times. I must be going nuts. :nuts:[/QUOTE]

I think the original problem arose hear because i think you are the only one here that believes a cat back system doesn't include a rear muffler. knight rider made no mention of the cat back being the pipe only. cat back system is exactly that...everything back behind the cat, not the rear piping of the exhaust system. you were only being questioned on your post surrounding this.

[QUOTE=Disciple]Aren't those systems supposed to be fitted? Meaning they don't need to be modified?[/B] And also, was it cat back? Because if it was you won't notice any performance increase. Cat back is basically just for a bit of extra noise.

everyone else agreed that you would gain from a catback, but you did not make it clear in this post that your version of a cat back was just the piping leading up to the rear muffler

tony

was the last paragraph aimed towards me ??? im not sure
but yes its a complete cat back system which includes 1 large and 1 small resinator or rear muffler




That's all good because my whole thing I'm on about is that just replacing the pipe alone from the cat back retaining the stock muffler won't do jack. The gain and noise is in the muffler (albeit a small one) But I've already said this 3 times. I must be going nuts. :nuts:

I think the original problem arose hear because i think you are the only one here that believes a cat back system doesn't include a rear muffler. knight rider made no mention of the cat back being the pipe only. cat back system is exactly that...everything back behind the cat, not the rear piping of the exhaust system. you were only being questioned on your post surrounding this.


Aren't those systems supposed to be fitted? Meaning they don't need to be modified?[/B] And also, was it cat back? Because if it was you won't notice any performance increase. Cat back is basically just for a bit of extra noise.

everyone else agreed that you would gain from a catback, but you did not make it clear in this post that your version of a cat back was just the piping leading up to the rear muffler

tony

So can we all agree that in closing we can say that installing a cat back system (inclusive of the piping from the cat converter to and including the rear muffler and tip) will give a small increase in power due to the less restrictive muffler and that it will not make much more noise than the stock system until you sink the right boot into it? Can we all agree on that?

And that by replacing the whole exhaust system will make it a bit louder still and give a bit more gain in performance, and then installing extractors and a full system will give the best overall gains and make more noise than the previous 2 options. The only other option I think would be to replace the cat back section and and install extractors, but retain the stock front end of the exhaust system. It'd be nice if someone could do before and after dyno runs of this option to see if the front bit of pipe needs to be replaced or not. Chances are it wouldn't cost a real lot to replace anyway so you'd probably just do it.

i have a question now, I have RPW Extractors and was thinking about upgrading my ezorst but i hear to upgrade the cat is quite expensive. I want to have a bit of upgrade and note without being a pain in the ar$e loud when i casually driving.

Whats a good price to have my extractors installed, and a new cat back piping and high flow resonator, my car is a v6 verada, and i don't want to have something ear piercing, i enjoy my stereo and i want to actually be able to think, a bit of zorst sound when i gun it would be nice. haha

I better not answer cause I'll get flamed. :bowrofl:

It's hard to say, some people say their redback system was loud, some say it makes no extra noise, so who knows. Best bet is to ask your local exhaust shop.

and then have a listen to some other 2nd gen zorsts on the v6's? disciple what do you think personally i don't care wat others say,

I want something that isn't what you would call loud, i quite like a stock zorst but would like to get more power out of it, thinking even a double pipe resonator like the stocko but just larger?

and then have a listen to some other 2nd gen zorsts on the v6's? disciple what do you think personally i don't care wat others say,

I want something that isn't what you would call loud, i quite like a stock zorst but would like to get more power out of it, thinking even a double pipe resonator like the stocko but just larger?
If you want some decent go then get a full 2.5" system with extractors and a high flow muffler and cat. Then get some resonators put on it to quieten it down. I'd do that, but before I did I'd talk to the guy who was gonna install the system on my car and make sure he knew exactly what I wanted, meaning not too loud. I'd budget $1500 for such an install.

i have a question now, I have RPW Extractors and was thinking about upgrading my ezorst but i hear to upgrade the cat is quite expensive. I want to have a bit of upgrade and note without being a pain in the ar$e loud when i casually driving.

Whats a good price to have my extractors installed, and a new cat back piping and high flow resonator, my car is a v6 verada, and i don't want to have something ear piercing, i enjoy my stereo and i want to actually be able to think, a bit of zorst sound when i gun it would be nice. haha

blackfox,
i have had a system installed 2.5" cat back..few months back
its great all up.. i love it
i will post a sound clip up tommorow and you can have a listen.. btw it only cost me $250ish installed :P

So can we all agree that in closing we can say that installing a cat back system (inclusive of the piping from the cat converter to and including the rear muffler and tip) will give a small increase in power due to the less restrictive muffler and that it will not make much more noise than the stock system until you sink the right boot into it? Can we all agree on that?

Mmmmmmm......... Could've sworn you told me that I was imagining a power gain after replacing the rear muffler (which is what I meant, when I said: "I replaced the rear muffler...")?

The cost was quite low, so I guess the need for imagination is also diminished here?

I must've confused you champ, sorry about that.:confused: I'll try to be more specific in the future!

As for the sound. I supose the difference between my experience and others with the lukey may be due to a slightly longer length of pipe? Any other theories on that, because I have noticed a lot of people complain about a drone with the same lukey muffler? I swear you can't notice a difference from inside the cabin.


The only other option I think would be to replace the cat back section and and install extractors, but retain the stock front end of the exhaust system.

Can we then assume that the front end of the exhaust does NOT include the extractors?

Are you black?

If you seriously can't understand then you should just quit life champ. Again, the power increase from the muffler will be minimal, even on an exec (maybe in the range of 4kW ATW) nothing noticable. You may notice a little more torque as the muffler allows better flow, I'll still retain tho that a cat back is mainly for sound. If you want good gains from your exhaust the only way to go is replacing the whole thing including extractors and cat. I don't care what you say, getting a free flowing muffler with less restrictive piping IS going to make it louder.

The end.

no extra noise noticed at all. maybe you've convinced youself that the extractors / headers were worth doubling the price of your exhaust?

So far, all your evidence is from turbo figures. It's cool that you obviously have a good knowledge of the evo, but have you got figures to prove no gain with the magna?

It's interesting to note (And if anyone knows different, please correct me) that there's an 8 kw difference in the tj, between the exec. and the VRX, but from my memory, the rear muffler was the only mech. difference.
If there are any other differences, let me know what they were.

I guess disciple has more experience when it comes to pull, don't ya "champ" ?

Disciple was simply asking you a question, there was no malice in it. You have decided to take the wanker path and attack him. You can go on holiday for being a tosser, it seems you have more experience than him.

Disciple was simply asking you a question, there was no malice in it. You have decided to take the wanker path and attack him. You can go on holiday for being a tosser, it seems you have more experience than him.
Ah, there is some justice. I didn't even report any of his posts btw, I decided to wade through the lame attacks and actually answer with some information.

Reading this whole thread gave me a headache.... anyone else???

If anyone else feels the same i think most of this thread can be deleted and only good information that doesnt twist our minds should be kept...

Does anyone feel the same way?

Reading this whole thread gave me a headache.... anyone else???

If anyone else feels the same i think most of this thread can be deleted and only good information that doesnt twist our minds should be kept...

Does anyone feel the same way?
Yep, some poor guy puts up thread with his new exhaust and 50 pages later people are talking about turbos, evos and ****

BACK ON TOPIC;

Nice upgrade, that was one of the first mods i did on my car.. little did i know i was going to supercharge it later on.... and i still have the same exhaust minus the resonator.

ah well there have been headaches in this thread thats for sure, but there has been some good knowledge if you wade through all the crap

So can we all agree that in closing we can say that installing a cat back system (inclusive of the piping from the cat converter to and including the rear muffler and tip) will give a small increase in power due to the less restrictive muffler and that it will not make much more noise than the stock system until you sink the right boot into it? Can we all agree on that?

And that by replacing the whole exhaust system will make it a bit louder still and give a bit more gain in performance, and then installing extractors and a full system will give the best overall gains and make more noise than the previous 2 options. The only other option I think would be to replace the cat back section and and install extractors, but retain the stock front end of the exhaust system. It'd be nice if someone could do before and after dyno runs of this option to see if the front bit of pipe needs to be replaced or not. Chances are it wouldn't cost a real lot to replace anyway so you'd probably just do it.

agreed. Again with the dyno, i will have hopefully have a figure soon where i have changed the exhaust from and including the cat back(with extractors) before and after.

ah well there have been headaches in this thread thats for sure, but there has been some good knowledge if you wade through all the crap

Any progress on your Exhaust so far?
And i would not bother about a Hi flow cat, its a waste of $300, gut your current cat and replace it with pipe on the inside

cheers man thats a good post aleast ppl do read bout the post at hand not making there own post half way through it




Yep, some poor guy puts up thread with his new exhaust and 50 pages later people are talking about turbos, evos and ****

BACK ON TOPIC;

Nice upgrade, that was one of the first mods i did on my car.. little did i know i was going to supercharge it later on.... and i still have the same exhaust minus the resonator.

Hi Guys

It seems that a good thread with some very good explanations has been left wanting because of different definitions and interpretations

This is from the Wikipedia:

Header-back (or header back) refers to the portion of the exhaust system from the outlet of the header to the final vent to open air— everything from the header back. Header-back systems are generally produced as aftermarket performance systems for cars without turbochargers.

Turbo-back refers to the portion of the exhaust system from the outlet of a turbocharger to the final vent to open air. Turbo-back systems are generally produced as aftermarket performance systems for cars with turbochargers. Some turbo-back (and header-back) systems replace stock catalytic converters with others having less flow restriction. Some systems eliminate the catalytic converter (sometimes called catless or no kitty), which may or may not be legal depending on geographic location and whether the car will be driven on public roads.

Cat-back (and more recently axle back) refers to the portion of the exhaust system from the outlet of the catalytic converter to the final vent to open air. This generally includes the pipe from the converter to the muffler, the muffler itself, and the final length of pipe to open air.

I have also found that what applies to exhaust systems in holden, ford etc with normal (hot wire) MAS does not apply to the Magna with it's turbulence type MAS system

The Magna has a system that is very sensitive to fluctuations in the MAS air-flow detection that tells the ECU what fuel is reqd.

Changes in the exhaust flow actually causes changes in the air-fuel ratio, becoming too lean and losing power

Just changing the Muffler only to a Lukey can result in a stock TJ2 suddenly 'droning', with a noticeable loss in power

So when you are modifying the exhaust, you are also directly changing the engine's power

Cheers, Barry